Islamic State in the Levant Advances

[DeWitz]

It's all over the news, "MSM" and otherwise: The 'Al-qaeda friendly' militants of the 'Islamist State in Iraq and the Levant' have rolled through Kirkuk and Mosul, and are on their way towards Baghdad. Iraqi security forces and police are dropping their weapons and fleeing. The Iraqi government asks for support from the West. A half-million civilians have streamed out of Mosul. It is reminiscent (for us oldsters) of the final fall of Saigon to the NVA and VC in April 1975.

Is anyone surprised? The endgame seems to be nigh. . .

Edited June 12, 2014 by DeWitz

[Gummug]

I think you are dead on about the endgame being nigh....

[Eldorado]

It's sectarian, this violence... is it not? Sunni vs Shi'ite? Borne of hatred rather than politics.

[RavenHawk]

I am so, seeing red right now, I am livid. I've been watching this for a couple of days now. I'll try to expand on this later, but you stupid Progressives - what were you thinking?! Incompetent fools!!

[DeWitz]

Raven, are you "calling me" a 'progressive' as some sort of epithet? What do you mean by your post? I look forward to you posting more for clarity's sake. I think it was the US and Iraqi atavists who caused this debacle.

It's sectarian, this violence... is it not? Sunni vs Shi'ite? Borne of hatred rather than politics.

As I understand it, yes--but the Taliban in Afghanistan proved they could pull off the semblance of a political entity for some time back in the '90's

[Dark_Grey]

So...Al Queda is back to being the "bad guys"? Ugh. No one believes this propaganda any more. Not that the people in charge care what we think.

[Grandpa Greenman]

If this how these people want to live then so be it. I don't think we should waste one more penny or one more life over there. I was against going to war in Iraq and Afghanistan, I knew it would just be a waste. If they do any terrorism nonsense here and we catch them, try them as criminals. If we don't, we can just fly over and carpet bomb the place and move on. Carpet bombing is what we do best. We don't even have to send a pilot just send a drone.

[+and-then]

It's all over the news, "MSM" and otherwise: The 'Al-qaeda friendly' militants of the 'Islamist State in Iraq and the Levant' have rolled through Kirkuk and Mosul, and are on their way towards Baghdad. Iraqi security forces and police are dropping their weapons and fleeing. The Iraqi government asks for support from the West. A half-million civilians have streamed out of Mosul. It is reminiscent (for us oldsters) of the final fall of Saigon to the NVA and VC in April 1975.

Is anyone surprised? The endgame seems to be nigh. . .

I think that endgame will see Iran coming across the border though. Maliki is Khamanei's puppet and he isn't going to allow a few thousand (3 to 5) come in and take the country no matter how cowardly the Iraqi troops turn out to be. ISIS will have their hands more than full with a division of IRGC. I read that about 800 took Mosul and there were 12,000 Iraqi troops there that just left - and left all their equipment (and 450 million bucks). But never fear! Obama says all options are in effect!! The Green Zone needs to be defended or evacuated soon or there will be US hostages to be paraded around for our humiliation.

[+and-then]

It's sectarian, this violence... is it not? Sunni vs Shi'ite? Borne of hatred rather than politics.

Absolutely - and it goes as deep as thousands of years can make hate grow. These guys (ISIS) want to re-establish the Islamic Caliphate. A world government controlled by sharia law. Those who have been looking the other way and making excuses about how these "fanatics" don't represent the mainstream of Islam might want to wake up and look around. If Iraq were to fall, then those "extremists" will control about 10% of the WORLD'S oil. I'm not sure, short of a nuclear detonation, what it's going to take to make the west realize that this is a very real and deadly situation for freedom loving people. If Iran moves in to fight for the Shia side against ISIS (Sunni) then Obama will do nothing and less than 3 years after the US left, Iran will essentially own Iraq. Lovely.

[Grandpa Greenman]

They can keep their oil. All we do when we go over there is give them more and more captured arms to fight with. It will never end and we are going broke trying prop up and defend puppet regimes they don't want There no way to win a "war" with terrorism, They are criminals, so treat them as such, All you ever really do is just boot them from country to country. You get them out of one place they just take over another.

[RavenHawk]

Raven, are you "calling me" a 'progressive' as some sort of epithet? What do you mean by your post? I look forward to you posting more for clarity's sake. I think it was the US and Iraqi atavists who caused this debacle.

My apologies, I was not calling you a Progressive. It’s getting late but I will probably expand more tomorrow, this is if I’ve calmed down by then. I’m just tired of all the scandals and other crap going on while others have been warning that *this* or *that* is going to happen only to have the Socialist Pundits deny it. Now, all of these warnings are coming home to roost. Yes, Biden, Iraq is a very stable nation now as Johnnie comes marching home. All I hear is a vacuum sound and laughter in the darkness. What difference does it make! This world is less violent than it has ever been and there are no death panels in Obamacare. I’m now just waiting for someone to revisit the Birth Certificate or at least force Obama to open his college files. I’ve had enough of fundamental change. I want to build it again. I’ll just let the NSA post my thoughts tomorrow while I commit suicide with my gun that has no ammo because park rangers need the ammo to shoot at civilian dog targets. I’m still waiting for my Guy Fawkes mask to arrive in the mail.

[jeem]

It seems some people are forgetting whose mess is this.

[+and-then]

They can keep their oil. All we do when we go over there is give them more and more captured arms to fight with. It will never end and we are going broke trying prop up and defend puppet regimes they don't want There no way to win a "war" with terrorism, They are criminals, so treat them as such, All you ever really do is just boot them from country to country. You get them out of one place they just take over another.

Sorry GG but it isn't really something that is going to stay "over there" if we walk away. I do agree that there is no way to really stop it though - and the idea of reinserting US troops is insane. No matter which side we choose we will ultimately be savaged by them when they are secure enough. That is the nature of this enemy. Unless we decide to be as brutal as they are then we WILL lose to this ideology.

[+and-then]

It seems some people are forgetting whose mess is this.

You're selling something NO ONE is buying. This is just a continuation of the Sunni Shia dance that has been going on since one tribe got greedy against another tribe. Frankly Jeem I could care less anymore how many Muslims kill other Muslims. But whichever side wins will come for the "infidels" because NO AMOUNT of blood will ever be enough for these people. If they could kill every Jew and Christian and non Muslim on the planet they still would keep fighting each other - it's what they DO. And the world may one day get sick enough of it to put an end to it with extreme prejudice, as they say.

[Space Commander Travis]

is there one example of "Nation building" or imposing "Freedom" on anywhere in the Middle East that the West has done that has been a success? or one case where the "War on Terror" has actually succeeded in reducing extremism?

[Sir Smoke aLot]

I just wonder how long will it take for something similar to happen in Libya too...

[Space Commander Travis]

I am so, seeing red right now, I am livid. I've been watching this for a couple of days now. I'll try to expand on this later, but you stupid Progressives - what were you thinking?! Incompetent fools!!

Ah, so it's the Progessives' fault, of course. It couldn't possibly be the neoconservatives' fault for invading the damn place in the first place 11 years ago, of course.

[Space Commander Travis]

My apologies, I was not calling you a Progressive. It's getting late but I will probably expand more tomorrow, this is if I've calmed down by then. I'm just tired of all the scandals and other crap going on while others have been warning that *this* or *that* is going to happen only to have the Socialist Pundits deny it. Now, all of these warnings are coming home to roost. Yes, Biden, Iraq is a very stable nation now as Johnnie comes marching home. All I hear is a vacuum sound and laughter in the darkness. What difference does it make! This world is less violent than it has ever been and there are no death panels in Obamacare. I'm now just waiting for someone to revisit the Birth Certificate or at least force Obama to open his college files. I've had enough of fundamental change. I want to build it again. I'll just let the NSA post my thoughts tomorrow while I commit suicide with my gun that has no ammo because park rangers need the ammo to shoot at civilian dog targets. I'm still waiting for my Guy Fawkes mask to arrive in the mail.

What are you talking about? I'm not sure any of that made any sense at all.

[TSS]

Who'd have thought that Saddam is looking like he actually was the best man for the job......strange times..

[Grandpa Greenman]

Ah, so it's the Progessives' fault, of course. It couldn't possibly be the neoconservatives' fault for invading the damn place in the first place 11 years ago, of course.

I hear ya man. The neocons are clueless. I am a liberal and a Progressive. The neocons blame us for everything, but the things I stand for have never even been tried at least not in the States. The people of world has been had by the world wide Plutocracy of Koch's, Murdock's, Saudi kings and despots. Americans, Iranians, Iraqis, Afghans, Chinese, Russians, Koreans, Japanese, etc... we are all human beings, we all have children (either directly or indirectly) and we are throwing away their future for pieces of paper whether it is in a little black book rules or a spreadsheet. If people don't put down the guns and start planting food we are F'ed pure and simple. You can't eat bullets or drink oil folks, wake up.

[+and-then]

I just wonder how long will it take for something similar to happen in Libya too...

I suspect that it already is happening there, just not as widespread or violent, yet. This is all about fighting for control of a new Caliphate across the region. Turkey and Iran both want to lead it. These small ultra violent groups are just the tip of the iceberg - more to come.

[Grandpa Greenman]

I got an idea, maybe the President might like it. First Bomb their airports, that will make them unable to go anywhere else with their nonsense. Then start dropping food, lots and lots of food. Maybe some nice beans and rice, along with some seeds for planting, stuff that will grow there, if anything. Maybe then their brains will start working and they will realize it is ones who are filling their minds with bull **** and profiting off it and living in the big palace, then sending people to stomp all over their garden who are the problem. I hate it when people stomp all over my garden it makes me mad.

[DeWitz]

I suspect that it already is happening there, just not as widespread or violent, yet. This is all about fighting for control of a new Caliphate across the region. Turkey and Iran both want to lead it. These small ultra violent groups are just the tip of the iceberg - more to come.

Do you think the caliphate is a 'possible dream' (to paraphrase Cervantes), or do you think this is geo-political-military jockeying for position (or possession), as in, "to the victor go the spoils?" I'm not sure where you get the alleged desire of Turkey (government? people? Islamic elites?) to head anything, given their NATO membership and relatively westernized culture. Iran, the 'usual suspect,' may have aspirations in this jumble, but they will have their hands full balancing the Sunni militants approaching Baghdad. Or do you see the whole swath of North Africa to historic Mesopotamia as a giant Sunni vs. Shi'ite chess board?

[ProfessorPurple]

During Friday's ,the Islamic "sabbath", (today's) prayers, Iraq's most senior Shia cleric - Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani has issued a call to arms. It now seems that Holy war/Jihad has been officially declared.

I wonder how any intervention by any western or foreign power will be viewed by either party. This could be more far reaching than anybody can imagine.

[+and-then]

is there one example of "Nation building" or imposing "Freedom" on anywhere in the Middle East that the West has done that has been a success? or one case where the "War on Terror" has actually succeeded in reducing extremism?

I gladly cede your first point. The second is not well founded. The end game against this ideology is to SURVIVE - not win some competition. The only way to accomplish your goal is to surrender and serve a Caliphate. If that sounds silly or extreme to you then it proves you really don't understand what's in play here. You have LOTS of company, btw.