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IRS lost all email to and from WH


Wickian

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You sure about that? But it's already been shown they just dump them after 6 months. So there is your "end of argument"

It has not been shown, someone said they thought they remembered reading it somewhere. If it's shown please provide a link.

Why can't you just call evil evil. Does it really make a difference that evil has disguised itself as the political philosophy you identify with? Wouldn't you team gain by excising this cancer? If people like you are just going to believe everything they say despite it flying in the face of common sense then what hope do we have for the future?

Edited by OverSword
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how quickly you forget that the BUSH white house also lost 10s of thousands of emails. SCANDAL!!! impeach impeach.

Bush E-mails Found: 22 Million Missing E-mails From George W. Bush White House Recovered

Source.

Harte

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no it's not. These are not a point in time disaster. They were written over and reorganized thousands of times with new information. Simple it is not. The IRS spent 10 million dollars of your money to try to find them. How much more do you want to spend?

How do you write over information on a crashed disk drive?

If you could do that, you could retrieve the emails without for4ensics.

Harte

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It has not been shown, someone said they thought they remembered reading it somewhere. If it's shown please provide a link.

Why can't you just call evil evil. Does it really make a difference that evil has disguised itself as the political philosophy you identify with? Wouldn't you team gain by excising this cancer? If people like you are just going to believe everything they say despite it flying in the face of common sense then what hope do we have for the future?

First of all there are plenty of links. Google it.

It's not evil. This is not a moral question. The IRS lost emails. Period.

Common sense does not exist. It's just what a bunch of people (misguided and flamed up by Fox news think)

If you want to fix something, quit underfunding their IT systems.

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quite. And mostly caused by a completely backward email system that was replaced finally during the Obama administration.

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How do you write over information on a crashed disk drive?

If you could do that, you could retrieve the emails without for4ensics.

More clearly -The IRS did spend some 10million dollars using their Criminal Forensics unit to recover some 70 thousand emails of several employees. Some were missing. Forensics does not mean they can recover everything. And now it seems they actually use Outlook, but that the PRIVATE company they use for backup recycles the server email tapes every six months. So that is the "write over" - on backup tapes. They could have recovered the Outlook PST file from her computer drive but it crashed. Crashed in this case means hard drive heads hitting the disk and destroying it. Using that 10million tax payer dollars, they can use additional machines to read whatever is available on the crashed disk. They got a lot but not everything. Then junked the drive at it was worthless. The resulting huge stash of emails prove that Lois Lerner did NOT "target" tea party groups and was not "directed" by the WH but in my opinion should have - as it turns out those groups were breaking the law and there was a recent surge of these groups. If this is the scandal you all are whining about, you need to get another life.

Edited by ninjadude
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It doesn't.

Further more, wouldn't the NSA have a copy? This is nonesense - it's computer sci 101. They are blatantly and very obviously trying to cover this up. How much more of this can people take?

That's exactly what I was thinking. What's the big deal ? The NSA has all that information. Just ask them for it. Maybe something good can come out of their snooping, for a change.

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Federal law demands all agencies keep multiple backups of all files/communications. If the IRS of all things failed to keep it's records it is at the very least grossly incompetent, and at most probably engaged in criminal activity.

When the republicans take control of the Senate in a few months I hope they will begin putting these thugs in JAIL for contempt when they simply refuse to obey subpoenas and requests for info.
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You are right Ninja..... nothing to see here. Move along.

I, for one, am done feeding the troll.... If you are not, and I am incorrect in my assessment, then you are so politically biased that you cannot see the inherent danger of letting a government make its own rules and not hold itself accountable to those very same rules or even, dare I say, to a higher standard. You, my friend, are the problem in todays world. You push the pendulum along to higher and higher levels and then have the audacity to question why it hurts so bad when it swings back at you with little to no understanding of the circumstances you have created for yourself. There is no reason for anyone, other than people who hold the EXACT same positions, to listen to a single utterance of anything you say. You, and only you, have made you and your like, irrelevant in a larger conversation that needs to start including and not excluding people who disagree.

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Well, to add another little twist to the story.... According to one article the IRS has had a contract with an email archiving company called Sonasoft since 2005. If this is true and they were being used, it should make the past arguments of "lost emails" go bye bye. Only time will tell, evidently, since no one wants to tell the truth.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/06/22/the-irs-totally-had-a-contract-with-an-email-archiving-company-but-still-somehow-lost-lois-lerners-emails/

Edited by Rut Roh
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When the republicans take control of the Senate in a few months I hope they will begin putting these thugs in JAIL for contempt when they simply refuse to obey subpoenas and requests for info.

You don't think giving the power of one political party to jail opposing political party members is bad in the least? (P.S. If you don't answer this correctly, I'm afraid you will be in contempt and will be subsequently jailed.)

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When the republicans take control of the Senate in a few months I hope they will begin putting these thugs in JAIL for contempt when they simply refuse to obey subpoenas and requests for info.

Since it's provable that they complied, spent 10million dollars of your money to do so, and gave them 76 thousand emails, what you say is extremely unlikely.

Edited by ninjadude
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You are right Ninja..... nothing to see here. Move along.

t you cannot see the inherent danger of letting a government make its own rules and not hold itself accountable to those very same rules or even, dare I say, to a higher standard.

You're apparently confused. The IRS complied with the request. They spent 10 million dollars of your money to recover what was possible. Giving 76 thousand emails.

Yes they should have a better backup policy. I think I said that.

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Well, to add another little twist to the story.... According to one article the IRS has had a contract with an email archiving company called Sonasoft since 2005. If this is true and they were being used, it should make the past arguments of "lost emails" go bye bye. Only time will tell, evidently, since no one wants to tell the truth.

Again with using the blaze. They are not a reliable source. In fact, the IRS did use Sonasoft and their policy is to recycle the backups every six months. Why did this make lost emails go bye bye? It has nothing to do with truth but with your apparent misunderstanding of IT.

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In fact, the IRS did use Sonasoft and their policy is to recycle the backups every six months.

No it isn't. Show me that policy. Sonasoft is an email archiving company offering multiple solutions and packages. Who the hell is going to pay for a service that won't keep a back-up for more than six months? What's the purpose? I could buy a couple hundred dollar server, plug it in my bedroom and never touch it again and it'll likely never ever lose anything I choose to store in it. You are out of your mind. I've read the same article on several different sources and not one of them says they know the details of the arrangement the IRS has with Sonasoft and neither do you. It could be six months or forever. You do not know. Not one thing you've proclaimed in this thread in defense of the IRS has had anything to back it up.

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No it isn't. Show me that policy. Sonasoft is an email archiving company offering multiple solutions and packages. Who the hell is going to pay for a service that won't keep a back-up for more than six months? What's the purpose? I could buy a couple hundred dollar server, plug it in my bedroom and never touch it again and it'll likely never ever lose anything I choose to store in it. You are out of your mind. I've read the same article on several different sources and not one of them says they know the details of the arrangement the IRS has with Sonasoft and neither do you. It could be six months or forever. You do not know. Not one thing you've proclaimed in this thread in defense of the IRS has had anything to back it up.

Exactly. Even for the smallest business clients we have, we offer basic redundancies in case of data loss. Either cloud based solutions or backup email servers. Again, these are for businesses of less than 50 people. The IRS, with all it's power and influence, with all it's accountability as a bloody tax collection agency, must have backups that go further than just 6 measly months. I've filed paperwork that takes longer than 6 months to process. I see a few possible scenarios here:

i) The IRS is not being truthful about the length of time email is backed up and they do in fact have said emails.

ii) The $10 million they spent "recovering emails" was not spent as efficiently as it could have been (that may or may not be intentional,)

iii) The official story (according to Ninja,) is 100% true and the IRS is incredibly in competent. Incompetent to the point where very in depth investigations are necessary along with possible gutting and restructuring. The tax agency cannot be allowed to account for the country's money if they can't even account for emails. Going forward with such incompetence is only setting ourselves up for bigger headaches in the future.

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I'm leaning towards #3. But I wouldn't say it was just the IRS. The investigative committee is just as incompetent. How can you find the truth behind the IRS scandal if you can't even find the truth behind a broken hard drive?

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The IRS is Not the Only Government Agency Hiding Documents from Congress

In a Wednesday morning hearing, EPA Administrator Gina McCarthy said she was still not ready to hand over the documents Issa is seeking. McCarty indicated that EPA staff was still negotiating with committee staff and trying to work with the request for papers, but Issa said that answer wasn’t good enough after more than six months.

“Could you imagine if I just went ahead and set up a coal energy plant without a permit, started burning raw coal to produce electricity, and then told you for month after month after month that I look forward to working with you?” Issa said.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/06/25/the-irs-is-not-the-only-government-agency-hiding-documents-from-congress/

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F3SS, you know that "the Blaze" is not an acceptable source.... Just go to MSNBC and find the appropriate link there... hehe Good luuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

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I'd use one of his approved sources if they actually did any reporting on the matter.

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I just searched thinkprogress, his version of the Blaze, and there's nary mention of this issue. Scrolled through dozens of front page headlines and seen nothing. Did a search of the site and found next to nothing after April and the few stories they did post were case closing articles, in their eyes, that the IRS progressive groups and one when Issa held Lerner in contempt. All followed by a horrid comment section of blind IRS loving butt lickers.

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I've been reading all 7 pages of back and forth arguments. I'm impressed by the knowledge of some and the gullibility of others. While I'm no tech wizard I do know a little about data storage. If, as some have said, the IRS is still using 80's technology then they are most likely storing their records on microfiche. Microfiche is certified to last for 100 years. It can be read with a flashlight and magnifying glass if necessary. It's a very secure but cumbersome form of storage. When tapes were in common use the data was routinely dumped to microfiche before being over written. So they can't use old technology as an excuse for lost data. On the other hand, with even the most modest of newer technology it seems almost impossible to lose an email except by intent. I used a used 10 year old laptop for a few years then upgraded to your average home laptop circa 2010. I have never tried to archive any emails. But when I junked my old box and logged on with the new one all my emails were still there. Every time I check my email service (gmail) it tells me how many thousands of emails I have stored. This PC could crash tonight and they would still be there tomorrow. So how could so many people with enough technical skills to work in the modern world claim they all lost their emails due to a computer crash? Even a low tech old schmuck like me knows that has to be a lie.

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Archaic magic my friend....

What are you new here? :unsure2:

sorry for coolguys interruption,he does that from time to time....

Edited by CrimsonKing
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You don't think giving the power of one political party to jail opposing political party members is bad in the least? (P.S. If you don't answer this correctly, I'm afraid you will be in contempt and will be subsequently jailed.)

Contempt of congress can land you or me in a cell buddy. Why should public servants -sworn to uphold the laws of the land be given a pass? If they choose to take the 5th then so be it but that says a lot about them as well, doesn't it? And it isn't just ONE party with the power. It's congressional committees that have the authority. The republicans have just been too cowardly to invoke them. What these people in the current admin are doing is way beyond the pale. Obama is basically writing law himself and ignoring the congress in the bargain. I'm pretty sure his behavior is without precedent - especially on the scale he's been acting.
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