The pie of truth (Who has the bigger slice?)

[markdohle]

The pie of truth

(Who has the bigger slice?)

Language is tricky, interesting, wonderful and frustrating all in one. Words resonate with us, we have histories with words, many of them will evoke a response in us that can be irrational and block deeper insight and understanding. That is why it can be difficult to communicate with one another, no matter what the medium. Writing and talking while related are different. In talking more can be conveyed, also there is a give and take and if that is respectful and both sides listen, then something can come out of it. In writing that is different.

We think and write from our different perspectives and make that normative, a sort of prototype for judging the truth. If I have had experiences from the past that engages my anger, anxiety, or fear, then it may be almost impossible to give the other speaker, or writer, a fair shake when it comes to comprehending. I have experienced this often and am amazed at how difficult it is for me to change in this regard. It can of course be very distressing for both parties. The less one understands how limiting perspectives can be, the stronger they can be in any argument. Those who have some insight into how difficult communication can actually be, may either give up, or learn not to respond to being attacked. However, there are many from both camps that I speak about above who are respectful of others even if they don’t agree. They tend to be quiet however and do not make much noise, they don’t need to.

I have seen very level headed atheist try to communicate with Christians, and no matter what the atheist says to get his or her point across they fail and end up being dumped on. The same is true when the tables are turned. I have seen atheist just as belligerent as any dyed in the wool Christian extreme fundamentalist. It is part of the human condition, our being bound by perspectives that are narrower than one supposes.

Ghetto’s have their advantage. I once visited to a community blog called “God is for suckers”. The people who posted there were very definite in how they looked upon people like me, the title expressed that very clearly. So I did not engage anyone on the site; what would be the point? Also add to the reality that I am bad at debate made it almost impossible.

On the site a young lady was complaining about her sister who has disowned her because she is an atheist. Her sister was a staunch “the world was made in 7 days, Christian”, so they were in fact just alike. Both extreme in their views, which they made normative and so anyone outside of the view was either a ‘sucker’, or “evil’ and on their way to hell.

There really is no way to change anything of course and I doubt that one day we will become a listening species when it comes to others. The Dali Lama I think it was who make this comment: “If you get representatives from every religious grouping and the same for those who have a more secular view point and sit them around a large table for a conference in mutual understanding so they can seek to understand one another, there will be difficulties. For no matter how well meaning they are, each will feel that they have a slightly larger piece of truth than the others. There are those who believe that all religions are equal. This is a point of view that those holding it think superior to others. Others who do not agree with them are wrong, misguided, or still immature and undeveloped in spiritual sensitivity….all the while thinking themselves compassionate in their condescension. Those who believe that all religions apart from the Christian one, or the Muslim one etc. are demonic; well I need say nothing more about that. I tend to think that all religions and philosophies all have to one degree or another some revelation from the Spirit that is always seeking to communicate with us. Yet as a Christian, Jesus Christ has a central role in all of this, from which all truth, love and beauty flow. Yet, those who disagree with me, I believe don’t have the truth to the depth that I have….so that is the reality of the situation.

So I have come to the conclusion that I don’t really know ‘squat’. Though even then I perhaps put myself in a superior position over others who do believe they have more ‘squat’ than I do. I have come to the conclusion that the only way for me to limit the arrogantly patronizing influence of this reality, is to enter into my own experience of seeking the truth. Of trying to deepen my understanding of my faith, and then accepting that this deep inner experience of seeking the truth is the same for most of the people that I come in contact with. This can lead to respect and my inner all knowing and at times arrogant perspective, which can masquerade as humility, be held in check.

It is good to live in a culture that is secular. In it we can actually study other faiths, be challenged by them, and grow in respect for them and in so doing actually deepen our own faith. No one is carried today by cultural faith, at least in the West, so to continue on any path one needs to study, think, and write if so inclined and to not fear others. I do believe that the over-wrought struggle that is being made about striking all religion from the public domain is in the end going to cause a back lash. I dread that. However each generation seems to not learn from the past. We still fight one another, seek to force others to think the way we do and if they don’t, we shower them at times with contempt or perhaps have pity for them…which is the same thing. We all get it from time to time. It can be difficult to learn from the experience of being attacked for what we simply believe, is also felt just as deeply by others, if we seek to control and manipulate them though verbal or written attack. To live the golden rule self knowledge is needed.

Edited June 14, 2014 by markdohle

[libstaK]

I am guilty of everything you described there too Mark, it really resonates with me. I don't know the answer either. I try to enlist my empathy but am not always successful when I am convinced the other party is in the wrong and I am right. Of course, there is no "right" and "wrong" there is the journey into knowledge. If I had lived in any other person's shoes, I would be exactly who they are today, if they had lived in mine they would be who I am today - somehow that helps me understand why we are so different and so certain that what we know is distinctly correct, from our perspective - it is all that we know. So in comparison to the sum of human knowledge through the ages born of the search of everyone else walking through their path in their own shoes, it really is squat. That may have it's own fallacy to comprehend but it is a better place to "restart" than any other I can think of.

[Spock_the_Future]

The Dali Lama I think it was who make this comment: “If you get representatives from every religious grouping and the same for those who have a more secular view point and sit them around a large table for a conference in mutual understanding so they can seek to understand one another, there will be difficulties. For no matter how well meaning they are, each will feel that they have a slightly larger piece of truth than the others. There are those who believe that all religions are equal. This is a point of view that those holding it think superior to others. Others who do not agree with them are wrong, misguided, or still immature and undeveloped in spiritual sensitivity….all the while thinking themselves compassionate in their condescension. Those who believe that all religions apart from the Christian one, or the Muslim one etc. are demonic; well I need say nothing more about that. I tend to think that all religions and philosophies all have to one degree or another some revelation from the Spirit that is always seeking to communicate with us.

There you have it dear, All in one single paragraph. I agree with libstaK, I am guilty of the same thing too. My record will show it, I have been against one particular belief, just because of the religious tendencies of the followers of that so called religion. Guilty as charged.

The problem as you state is three fold.

1. We as individuals want to be considered right, irrespective of what our belief is. My supremacy over people I Know. Me, mine and me me me.I am the leader and people should follow me. Obey my commands. Treat me as a leader. I am right. I am the smart one and all others are not to the level.

2. I'll get something out of doing that. I think I would go to Heaven so.................. Or I'll make some money out of it......... Or Maybe Power....... Or something else I am right now unable to think of.

3. I'll save the herd (seems like point 1, I think the mentality is a bit different here, or maybe not). I am a gift to the Humanity and am ready to suffer the worst just to prove it. So I will go on because I am right.

Now the point after discussing all that about evolution in the previous posts(I'll never forget that, that was a Learning Experience) that comes to my mind is. Are we evolved ??? Brains of the Earth eh.... Are We ?????

Still learning.................. Or trying to.