rodentraiser Posted July 1, 2014 #26 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I'm not sure I care what Jesus would do. He got himself crucified, so his decision making skills really weren't all that great anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafterman Posted July 1, 2014 #27 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Was he an advocate for sword or dagger control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Paranoid Android Posted July 1, 2014 #28 Share Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) Was he an advocate for sword or dagger control? I don't believe swords or daggers were government controlled items during Jesus' day, so I doubt he'd have thought anything of it. There is one place where he asks for a count of all weapons in possession of the disciples, and among them all there was only one sword, which Jesus then says "that is enough". This sword is then used to later cut off a soldier's ear, to which Jesus rebukes the individual and heals the guards ear, so presumably Jesus' "that is enough" statement was a reference to that weapon being enough to point out that he wouldn't advocate violence even in the event of his capture, indeed he'd heal the guard who was injured.Whether this event really did take place or not, the author wrote this in order to convey what Jesus' stance was on the use of force and weaponry. Unfortunately, as the centuries ticked over, this particular event began to be ignored by those in power, but the earliest followers of Christ in the first few centuries after the events did indeed embrace such teaching (and hopefully Christians in the modern world are returning to this early teaching, many already have, some haven't). As to what this means for gun control lobbies, I think Jesus would be agnostic on the issue. If you want to own a gun, own a gun, just don't use it for violence. If the authorities banned the ownership of guns (barring essential needs, requiring a licence, such as countries like Australia do) then he'd probably shrug and say "this is Caesar's property, obey the authorities in this regard". Edited July 1, 2014 by Paranoid Android Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted July 1, 2014 #29 Share Posted July 1, 2014 If you are going to own a gun but not use it for violence at the time violence is needed, what is it for? I would think wisdom would say not have one around lest they use it on you once they realize you won't use it on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Paranoid Android Posted July 1, 2014 #30 Share Posted July 1, 2014 If you are going to own a gun but not use it for violence at the time violence is needed, what is it for? I would think wisdom would say not have one around lest they use it on you once they realize you won't use it on them. Sport? Farmers protecting herds from predators? I know of only two people who own guns, albeit I live in a country where you need a legitimate reason to own guns, and then you have to have a licence and follow the rules very strictly. One of those people is a trap shooter, and his licence requires his rifle to be securely packed away except when at the shooting range. The other who owns a gun is my uncle, who lives on a secluded farm and was given the licence for use against predators who may come in and attack the livestock (I'm not sure whether they own the gun anymore since they got rid of their livestock [except for a dozen chickens] several years ago). So those are two legitimate reasons for gun ownership that don't require it to be used to commit violence upon another human. I also know of a third person who did have a gun licence, but after the police were called to his property for an unrelated issue, the officer observed that he wasn't abiding by the terms of his gun licence, and so his guns were confiscated, his licence was revoked, and a criminal charge was laid against him that is harsh enough to deny him an international passport for at least the next ten years (and from his retelling of the events, it was a relatively minor breach of his licence, though admittedly the police may tell a different story, but neither would surprise me considering the strict regulation of gun ownership in Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted July 1, 2014 #31 Share Posted July 1, 2014 What would Jesus do about gun control? What would Jesus do about GM's recalls for faulty vehicle ignition switches? What would Jesus do about genetically-modified foodstuffs? What would Jesus do about the preservation of a portion of the Pacific Ocean for environmental conservation? What would Jesus do about the ascendancy of the ISIL (ISIA)? I can only suggest that Jesus would be on the side of justice, and we all know what a rare item that thing is. . . You'll find arguments wherever you look for them, and especially where you don't. What would Jesus about gun control. Nothing. What would Jesus do about GMs recalls. Nothing What would Jesus do about genetically modified foods. Eat them. He was concerned by went into the mouth but rather what came out. What would Jesus do about environmental conservation. Nothing. What would Jesus do about the isil. Eat with them. The nothing answers are areas where he wasn't concerned. They were not part of his mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogbin Posted July 1, 2014 #32 Share Posted July 1, 2014 When Jesus comes back to rule and reign on the Earth swords will be changed into plowshares. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightly Posted July 2, 2014 #33 Share Posted July 2, 2014 lightly, on 23 June 2014 - 08:32 PM, said: my take is that Jesus wouldn't Do anything about those things, because those things are of this world, and he was all about righteousness and souls and everlastingness. That's a very evasive and irresponsible answer. If so, why did Jesus even bother to come down to Earth? I wasn't trying to be evasive or irresponsible. I was simply saying that Jesus , wasn't all that concerned with this world in general.. he was, as i said, All about righteousness .. and souls.. and the everlasting. He came down to earth to deal with those things . ( that's the Jesus i learned about once upon a time anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted July 2, 2014 #34 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I am curious to hear what Jesus would do about gun control, welfare,racism and illegal immigration. I myself am an atheist so I will not be commenting, but wish to hear the responses of believers out there. I want to know what Brian Boitano'd do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenWolf Posted July 2, 2014 #35 Share Posted July 2, 2014 When Jesus comes back to rule and reign on the Earth swords will be changed into plowshares. 1 Peter 1:24 For, "All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpee Posted July 2, 2014 #36 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) Jesus already took action. He gave each person free-will, including the free-will to defend oneself from danger. Edited July 2, 2014 by Arpee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodentraiser Posted July 2, 2014 #37 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Against imagined danger, even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodentraiser Posted July 2, 2014 #38 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Sport? Farmers protecting herds from predators? I know of only two people who own guns, albeit I live in a country where you need a legitimate reason to own guns, and then you have to have a licence and follow the rules very strictly. One of those people is a trap shooter, and his licence requires his rifle to be securely packed away except when at the shooting range. The other who owns a gun is my uncle, who lives on a secluded farm and was given the licence for use against predators who may come in and attack the livestock (I'm not sure whether they own the gun anymore since they got rid of their livestock [except for a dozen chickens] several years ago). So those are two legitimate reasons for gun ownership that don't require it to be used to commit violence upon another human. I also know of a third person who did have a gun licence, but after the police were called to his property for an unrelated issue, the officer observed that he wasn't abiding by the terms of his gun licence, and so his guns were confiscated, his licence was revoked, and a criminal charge was laid against him that is harsh enough to deny him an international passport for at least the next ten years (and from his retelling of the events, it was a relatively minor breach of his licence, though admittedly the police may tell a different story, but neither would surprise me considering the strict regulation of gun ownership in Australia). Don't people shoot just for sport? Not hunt, I mean just shoot. I thought shooting was an Olympic event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted July 2, 2014 #39 Share Posted July 2, 2014 There are so many sports one wonders why someone is attracted to a sport that involves a deadly weapon. However, we are all different so I would allow the law should be flexible here. I think it is a Buddhist feeling wired into me as a child that sees guns as inherently evil things. Of course seeing a few neighbors killed didn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Paranoid Android Posted July 2, 2014 #40 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Don't people shoot just for sport? Not hunt, I mean just shoot. I thought shooting was an Olympic event. Of course they do. My post confirmed that. One of the people I know who owns a gun has a permit because he is a trap-shooter and he competes in trap-shooting tournaments. I think you've misread something here, rr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osvaldo32579 Posted July 2, 2014 #41 Share Posted July 2, 2014 1 Peter 1:24 For, "All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall he never give anyone any free will....he can't give that...but yes god give us free will as well he gave it to him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodentraiser Posted July 2, 2014 #42 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Of course they do. My post confirmed that. One of the people I know who owns a gun has a permit because he is a trap-shooter and he competes in trap-shooting tournaments. I think you've misread something here, rr I'm not surprised - I do that a lot. *sigh* I was thinking your post was about just shooting for fun, that is, going out and plinking at cans a few times a year (not that that isn't fun). But I was thinking along the lines of something that was recognized more officially. I didn't know they had trap shooting tournaments, although it certainly makes sense. Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafterman Posted July 2, 2014 #43 Share Posted July 2, 2014 There are so many sports one wonders why someone is attracted to a sport that involves a deadly weapon. However, we are all different so I would allow the law should be flexible here. I think it is a Buddhist feeling wired into me as a child that sees guns as inherently evil things. Of course seeing a few neighbors killed didn't help. Most sports evolved out of combat in one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafterman Posted July 2, 2014 #44 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I don't believe swords or daggers were government controlled items during Jesus' day, so I doubt he'd have thought anything of it. There is one place where he asks for a count of all weapons in possession of the disciples, and among them all there was only one sword, which Jesus then says "that is enough". This sword is then used to later cut off a soldier's ear, to which Jesus rebukes the individual and heals the guards ear, so presumably Jesus' "that is enough" statement was a reference to that weapon being enough to point out that he wouldn't advocate violence even in the event of his capture, indeed he'd heal the guard who was injured. Whether this event really did take place or not, the author wrote this in order to convey what Jesus' stance was on the use of force and weaponry. Unfortunately, as the centuries ticked over, this particular event began to be ignored by those in power, but the earliest followers of Christ in the first few centuries after the events did indeed embrace such teaching (and hopefully Christians in the modern world are returning to this early teaching, many already have, some haven't). As to what this means for gun control lobbies, I think Jesus would be agnostic on the issue. If you want to own a gun, own a gun, just don't use it for violence. If the authorities banned the ownership of guns (barring essential needs, requiring a licence, such as countries like Australia do) then he'd probably shrug and say "this is Caesar's property, obey the authorities in this regard". Funny how his Daddy didn't seem to have a problem with the slaughter of untold thousands of men, women, and children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Paranoid Android Posted July 3, 2014 #45 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Funny how his Daddy didn't seem to have a problem with the slaughter of untold thousands of men, women, and children. Is it funny? I thought it was quite a serious matter. Serious enough to put more time into this answer many times over than a one-line quip attacking an unspecified textual criticism of Old Testament theology. Do you really expect a reasoned answer with a response like this? I'd provide one if you really like, but the tone of your answer would seem to indicate that you just want to attack the nature of the Old Testament God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted July 3, 2014 #46 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Jesus would allow guns. You just have to look at history and see that when Jesus founded America and wrote the constitution, he included the 2nd amendment. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostSouls7 Posted July 3, 2014 #47 Share Posted July 3, 2014 probably the same thing he did with Sword.. and Bow and Arrow control during his time.. nothing... There are kung fu masters who could kill with their bare fists... should we have fist control now ? lol.. what about hammer control? hammers can kill also think about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted July 3, 2014 #48 Share Posted July 3, 2014 probably the same thing he did with Sword.. and Bow and Arrow control during his time.. nothing... There are kung fu masters who could kill with their bare fists... should we have fist control now ? lol.. what about hammer control? hammers can kill also think about it These things are not really comparable to guns. Their lethality is more limited and takes considerable skill. Any child can kill another with a gun without intending if there is one about. There is also the tu quoque fallacy I think you have in your thinking -- "Two wrongs do not make a right." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticStrummer Posted July 3, 2014 #49 Share Posted July 3, 2014 He'd be sad that we've built a world where people are so afraid of each other, but I don't think he'd have much to say about the policy itself. "Render unto Caesar…" and all that. I think he'd have a lot to say in general about any society and/or group of people that self identifies as Christian when overwhelming evidence suggests otherwise. I wonder how "turn the other cheek" would be applied to this subject? It seems to me that if someone broke into my house for whatever reason and I shot them, Jesus wouldn't pat me on the back and tell me I was in the right, even if the intruder intended to kill me and my family. Better to die and not take another human life, even if that other life was an evil one. The instinct to fight back and survive is an animal instinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostSouls7 Posted July 3, 2014 #50 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) These things are not really comparable to guns. Their lethality is more limited and takes considerable skill. Any child can kill another with a gun without intending if there is one about. There is also the tu quoque fallacy I think you have in your thinking -- "Two wrongs do not make a right." my point is the media makes a big deal of shootings.. but they NEVER tell you about the deaths from people being beaten to death.. stabbed. or dying from other violent acts. So i never pay the media any mind. They have an agenda.. and I am not falling for it. Jesus wouldn't like today's media. They are liars Edited July 3, 2014 by LostSouls7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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