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How to deal with returning Jihadis

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kartikg

Ok this might sound sarcastic but in Islam it's kind of your duty to support your brothers who are fighting for the Islamic cause. Denying them is like asking Christian not to celebrate Christmas.

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and then

Ok this might sound sarcastic but in Islam it's kind of your duty to support your brothers who are fighting for the Islamic cause. Denying them is like asking Christian not to celebrate Christmas.

How do you support them?

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kartikg

How do you support them?

Support whom? Brothers in fight? They go and join them.

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and then

Support whom? Brothers in fight? They go and join them.

And if they go and fight then they believe in the words spoken by the brothers in the fight, yes? So when they are directed to attack infidels in their home countries they obviously will do this also. You'll excuse us for not making that an easy task for them (hopefully).

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kartikg

And if they go and ...usly will do this also. You'll excuse us for not making that an easy task for them (hopefully).

Hmm no what I meant was ,when west stands for so much for freedom , free speech and choice and all such things how can denying them fit with these values. Also what if they don't go and fight but support the rebels verbally or if they send money , food etc are they still dangerous to the infidels? What about the government which wants to fund them . What is the clear cut line which law can lay down?

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and then

Hmm no what I meant was ,when west stands for so much for freedom , free speech and choice and all such things how can denying them fit with these values. Also what if they don't go and fight but support the rebels verbally or if they send money , food etc are they still dangerous to the infidels? What about the government which wants to fund them . What is the clear cut line which law can lay down?

There IS no clear cut law because this is uncharted territory. I suspect the laws will change when supporters (active or financial) actually commit acts of violence. Call me a cynic but history shows us it's only a matter of time. IMO any person who makes war against his own country is a traitor and should be executed. Harsh, I know, but so is mass murder. And I include ALL who would act this way, not only Islamic fundies.

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kartikg

There IS nome a cynic but history shows us it's only a matter of time. .. would act this way, not only Islamic fundies.

I agree . now I wonder will congress give a go ahead for financial support to rebels?

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EllJay

A few years ago, to think about bringing Sharia Law into English life was unheard of. Now, there are those that represent about 5% of the population demanding that Sharia be incorporated into English Law or at the very least to separate Muslim from non-Muslim, which is by-the-way a means to divide and conquer. Once that separation is made, then Muslims can attack the non-believer with Jihad of the tongue until they submit to the will of Allah. Part of immigration is to accept and adapt to the laws of the host land. Otherwise, why immigrate?

Have a look at this. The pattern seem to be the same in almost all the countries populated by muslims.

http://youtu.be/s8zN6Wo9oIw

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Yamato

And if they go and fight then they believe in the words spoken by the brothers in the fight, yes? So when they are directed to attack infidels in their home countries they obviously will do this also. You'll excuse us for not making that an easy task for them (hopefully).

I'll excuse you just as soon as I bill you for the balance due. What they do in their home country is not our responsibility. I don't know why you foreign interventionists can't understand that, but ya couldn't recognize fiscal conservatism if you found it under a rock.

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Yamato

There IS no clear cut law because this is uncharted territory. I suspect the laws will change when supporters (active or financial) actually commit acts of violence. Call me a cynic but history shows us it's only a matter of time. IMO any person who makes war against his own country is a traitor and should be executed. Harsh, I know, but so is mass murder. And I include ALL who would act this way, not only Islamic fundies.

So loyalty to land within lines drawn by govt are that much more important than life. As if the govt and the land are indecipherable to you, that's again the ultimate example of Statism, on display as usual. Thank you for making your opinion so clear. Both harsh, and taking the side of Assad in Syria. It must be hella convenient to see the world in such clarity before spending someone else's money on it.

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Yamato

Have a look at this. The pattern seem to be the same in almost all the countries populated by muslims.

[media=]

[/media]

It's a good thing Sharia law is impossible in the US, now let's spend other peoples' money on what's possible, please. People who have to go thousands of miles away to find a problem to spend money on are blind to their own.

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and then

I agree . now I wonder will congress give a go ahead for financial support to rebels?

I hope not. But I suspect that yes they will.

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EllJay

It's a good thing Sharia law is impossible in the US, now let's spend other peoples' money on what's possible, please. People who have to go thousands of miles away to find a problem to spend money on are blind to their own.

WTH are you talking about?

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RavenHawk

WTH are you talking about?

It's the Yamato Gibberish. Then when you think you've deciphered it and reply, he begins to insult you.

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It's the Yamato Gibberish. Then when you think you've deciphered it and reply, he begins to insult you.

I've come to think of it almost as verbal Rorschach blots :w00t: It can be nearly anything you need it to be - except sensible.
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Leonardo

There's a big difference between being aware/vigilant and hate/fear. Am I like Yam who uses every opportunity to bad mouth those that disagree with him or go out of my way to attack Muslims (like he attacks Israel)? Or do you see me use the facts, track record, history, and the Quran to paint a picture to help enlighten people's understanding of the situation?

You're serious? I wonder how many on Flight 93 had the same view, or those on a double-decker bus in 2007 London? I wonder how you'd feel in Northern Iraq right about now?

Jesus told his followers to love one another and to go make disciples of the world. He wasn't specific about how. It ranged widely from St Francis to Charlemagne. But Jesus' basic message was to respect EVERYONE no matter who they are but at the same time to not be stupid or naïve about it. Humanity was divided between Jew and Gentile and it didn't matter. Islam separates the world into two camps, the House of Peace and the House of War. It's not much of a brainer to see that Muslims occupy the House of Peace. Mohammed speaks of peace and compassion with those that are within the body but for those not of the body, Muslims are commanded to attack and kill the non believer. So yes, those that practice their religion do so in varying ways, but the core beliefs establish the character of the faith.

A few years ago, to think about bringing Sharia Law into English life was unheard of. Now, there are those that represent about 5% of the population demanding that Sharia be incorporated into English Law or at the very least to separate Muslim from non-Muslim, which is by-the-way a means to divide and conquer. Once that separation is made, then Muslims can attack the non-believer with Jihad of the tongue until they submit to the will of Allah. Part of immigration is to accept and adapt to the laws of the host land. Otherwise, why immigrate?

The main cause is incompatible dogma. Dar al-Harb threatens the body therefore should be ostracized as part of one's inner struggle. This is not myth. It is black & white. It is core.

Not cowardice but certainly naivety. Ignorance is truly bliss and that is what Islam expects from the non-believer. There is no hate in that. Knowledge is power and if you know the ways of the enemy, they are powerless.

Mosques launch campaign to stop UK Syria fighters

Imams from around the UK have called on young British Muslims to stay away from the civil war in Syria.

The nationwide campaign is instead encouraging giving to Syria through legitimate charities.

The message is going out ahead of Ramadan, which begins this weekend.

It comes after a video emerged showing two young Cardiff men urging others to join a jihadist fight in Syria - where tens of thousands have died in three years of war - and in Iraq.

The men are believed to be among 500 Britons fighting in Syria for the militant group Isis (Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant).

source

Indeed, Islam seems to be attempting to "conquer" the UK...oh, wait! :rolleyes:

You are prejudiced, RavenHawk, and your argument (and that of others) is born of that prejudice, not rationality.

Edited by Leonardo
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and then

For the sake of your children or grand children I hope you are correct Leo.

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RavenHawk

Indeed, Islam seems to be attempting to "conquer" the UK...oh, wait! :rolleyes:

After explaining it to you, you are still ignorant of the facts. EllJay gave a good primer yet it just doesn’t register with you. I thought we were supposed to learn from history not be enslaved by it.

You are prejudiced, RavenHawk, and your argument (and that of others) is born of that prejudice, not rationality.

Just because some Imams are paying lip service for the youth to stay makes me prejudiced? The youth are going to fight with ISIS, not Assad. Why give money when Saudi Arabia is bankrolling it? So there is something phony with their statements. What are needed are fighters and cannon-fodder.

Don’t you find it interesting that ISIS has been getting noticed here real recent? Have you wondered why they haven’t made that final push into Baghdad yet? Everyone is under the assumption that they are not strong enough. They are just positioning their forces. Don’t you think the timing is too convenient? What better time to attack than during the month of Ramadan. What better sign to establish the Caliphate?

Yes, there is a chance that ISIS will flounder on the Baghdad shores but if they don’t, their numbers will increase dramatically. What will the Shiites do at this point? US drones, airstrikes, and 300 advisors isn’t going to stop this. This will give the Shiites pause thinking that the 12th Imam is coming. Will Iran commit troops or join?

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After explaining it to you, you are still ignorant of the facts. EllJay gave a good primer yet it just doesn't register with you. I thought we were supposed to learn from history not be enslaved by it.

Just because some Imams are paying lip service for the youth to stay makes me prejudiced? The youth are going to fight with ISIS, not Assad. Why give money when Saudi Arabia is bankrolling it? So there is something phony with their statements. What are needed are fighters and cannon-fodder.

Don't you find it interesting that ISIS has been getting noticed here real recent? Have you wondered why they haven't made that final push into Baghdad yet? Everyone is under the assumption that they are not strong enough. They are just positioning their forces. Don't you think the timing is too convenient? What better time to attack than during the month of Ramadan. What better sign to establish the Caliphate?

Yes, there is a chance that ISIS will flounder on the Baghdad shores but if they don't, their numbers will increase dramatically. What will the Shiites do at this point? US drones, airstrikes, and 300 advisors isn't going to stop this. This will give the Shiites pause thinking that the 12th Imam is coming. Will Iran commit troops or join?

I will really be surprised if the IRGC allows a Sunni force to control most of Iraq. ISIS has the support of many Sunnis but they still don't have the structure and skills (I don't think) of the IRGC troops. Time will tell. OTOH Iran's leader may be hesitant to get involved in a sectarian civil war just now right next door.

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RavenHawk

I will really be surprised if the IRGC allows a Sunni force to control most of Iraq. ISIS has the support of many Sunnis but they still don't have the structure and skills (I don't think) of the IRGC troops. Time will tell. OTOH Iran's leader may be hesitant to get involved in a sectarian civil war just now right next door.

I think they do have the structure and skills. They also have the backing and the motivation. I think they are currently out numbered but so was Mohammed at Badr. All they need to do is take Baghdad and the initiative will swing all their way. Waiting too long to consolidate and they’ll lose their gains. But I agree, time will tell, there are just too many unknowns right now. Let’s see what happens around Baghdad.

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RoofGardener

From Leanardo's post above...

Mosques launch campaign to stop UK Syria fighters

Imams from around the UK have called on young British Muslims to stay away from the civil war in Syria.

The nationwide campaign is instead encouraging giving to Syria through legitimate charities.

Sounds encouraging, doesn't it ?

The only - and unique - source for this story is this .. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28061173

All other internet references spawn from this story.

When you read it, you notice one thing.

It is referred to as a nationwide movement... but there is no reference to any organising body.

There is only direct reference to ONE SINGLE MOSQUE.... one in Leeds.

Roofgardener is very skeptical about this story. Methinks the BBC are trying to generate Cultural Enrichment. Still, even ONE mosque is better than zero mosques.

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RavenHawk

There is only direct reference to ONE SINGLE MOSQUE.... one in Leeds.

You might say that this mosque *leeds* the way... :whistle:

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RoofGardener

You might say that this mosque *leeds* the way... :whistle:

Groooaaaaan :D

The BBC is reporting that one of the Cardiff Jihadists is saying that he has no intentions of returning to the UK, and will continue fighting in Syria, to the death.

I can only applaud the young mans attitude, and hope that many many more will be inspired by his example.

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Gromdor

Here's some links of an American man and woman trying to join the jihadists in ISIS: http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t2 and http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/28/justice/texas-terror-arrests/index.html

If they are labeled as a "terrorist" group the US steps in and arrests them. But if not they are free and clear to do what they please.

Edited by Gromdor

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Phaeton80

Leo do you actually think we AREN'T at war with Islam? These guys say regularly what their motivations for fighting are. We are doomed to lose our way of life if we cannot even name the enemy.

Ironic. You seem to exemplify thesame dangerous ideas as the extremists you so oppose by not differentiating between 'Islam' and 'extremist cults / offshoots' who act under the Islamic flag. Not limited by any semblance of knowledge concerning the object of your animosity. Which implies conditioning, again, just like the case with extremists.

The level of generalization (simplification) you maintain is a vehicle for crimes against humanity. It is identical to the extremists logic that everyone who can be categorised as 'moderate or non- Muslim' is 'the enemy'.

Edited by Phaeton80
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