The MacStay case

[docyabut2 2,951]

Saw this case on CNN the other day and its really sad, who ever did this to that family.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/01/justice/mcstay-case-five-questions/index.html?iref=allsearch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McStay_family_murder

[docyabut2 2,951]

On February 4, 2010, a neighbor's surveillance system captured the McStay family driving away from their home at 7:47pm. The occupants of the vehicle cannot be seen.^[5] At approximately 8:30pm, a call was placed from Joseph McStay's cell phone to the phone of his business associate, Chase Merritt. The phone call went to voicemail and Merritt told police he ignored the call because he was watching a movie. Joseph's cellphone pinged off of a tower in Fallbrook.

What struck me if they were taken at 7:47pm ,who would let Joseph Macstay make that phone call at 8;30pm ?

Edited July 3, 2014 by docyabut2

[timewarrior 272]

What struck me if they were taken at 7:47pm ,who would let Joseph Macstay make that phone call at 8;30pm ?

This is the Timewarrior speaking. There are a few possible scenarios:

1. The family was on the run and Mr. McStay was calling to cancel plans

2. The family had been taken and Mr. McStay was able to surreptitiously access his phone and dial the last number called hoping that whoever was on the line would be able to hear their situation.

3. The call was made by the killers accidentally while rummaging through Mr. McStay's belonging.

In either case, there are some very disturbing, undisputed facts about this case.

1. This was a carefully planned murder. From possibly planting the computer searches weeks earlier on their computers to leaving the car near a border checkpoint. . .the whole thing reeks of intentional diversion and subterfuge.

2. Neither the McStay family nor the police took the disappearance as seriously as they should have. Police incompetence in not making the house a crime scene has possible hindered this case permanently. Nor should the family have gone into the house and cleaned. There is not excuse for the police not conducting some sort of investigation after the house was found the way it was. It just reeked of a crime and should have been treated as such. Some would say hindsight is 20/20, but I say bull. There are reasons why police have procedures and why these procedures should be followed to the letter.

3. Someone REALLY hated this family. I mean to kill the wife AND kids? Not just the husband or the wife or both. . .but the kids? Could the kids have ID the killers? Then it reeks of a close family member or friend. . .which might explain the computer search. . .

In my opinion. . .the person or person who did this are somehow closely related to the McStays. Our only hope is that the person or persons involved were very careless at the burial site. And to be quite frank, that is possible. They buried this family so they would NEVER be found. And if they were so confident in this fact, then their hubris will be their undoing as they may have unintentionally left clues to their identity behind. Based on what I've learned from the show Dark Minds. . .a good serial killer NEVER buries a body. The longer you are with that body. . .the more likely it'll be that you leave something of yourself behind that a good investigator can use to tie you to said body. A good serial killer dumps and runs. . .granted he or she may dump in a remote location. . .but he or she won't take the risk of tainting the dumping site by digging a grave for what he or she considers to just be garbage.

[docyabut2 2,951]

Could it have been some illegal medical scram from Mexico or the US. They said the wife purchase some herbal medicine that day as if for treating someone sick in the family . I agree it was planned because the McStacys on their PC were searching how to get kids into Mexico. They seem to be in a hurry to drive there and a temp to cross the border as seen by the surveillance camera at the border, but perhaps were abducted perhaps robbed of their money and taken to where to they found their bodies. I`d say it was more then one or two persons that killed them and buried them all.

[2-B 1,723]

Could it have been some illegal medical scram from Mexico or the US. They said the wife purchase some herbal medicine that day as if for treating someone sick in the family . I agree it was planned because the McStacys on their PC were searching how to get kids into Mexico. They seem to be in a hurry to drive there and a temp to cross the border as seen by the surveillance camera at the border, but perhaps were abducted perhaps robbed of their money and taken to where to they found their bodies. I`d say it was more then one or two persons that killed them and buried them all.

Maybe so.

OTOH, one of Summer's friends recounted a discussion where some of them (McStays and McStay friends) were talking about a possible trip to Mexico, and Summer was adamant that she had no interest, Mexico was too dangerous, etc. I wish I had a link, but this was on one of the McStay documentaries I saw, maybe the CNN one or the HLN one. I suppose her position could change if one of the children were really ill and Mexico represented the only hope, but we've never heard evidence to support that.

I don't believe the border video has been confirmed as the McStays if that helps--meaning there's no compelling reason to try to place them there IMNSHO.

[timewarrior 272]

Maybe so.

OTOH, one of Summer's friends recounted a discussion where some of them (McStays and McStay friends) were talking about a possible trip to Mexico, and Summer was adamant that she had no interest, Mexico was too dangerous, etc. I wish I had a link, but this was on one of the McStay documentaries I saw, maybe the CNN one or the HLN one. I suppose her position could change if one of the children were really ill and Mexico represented the only hope, but we've never heard evidence to support that.

I don't believe the border video has been confirmed as the McStays if that helps--meaning there's no compelling reason to try to place them there IMNSHO.

This is the Timewarrior speaking. the private investigator in the cnn documentary pointed out many things about that supposed trip to mexico. In his opinion, it didn't happen. first of all. . .if they were killed in mexico, they would have been buried in mexico. . .not in California. they would not have transported the bodies across the border. second, the time the car was left at the parking lot was 5 pm, the time it was discovered and impounded was 5:30. . .the time of the surveillance video was 7:30. If it was the McStays, then where the heck were they for 2 hours in between dropping their car off. . .and crossing the border. . .third. . .we don't even know if they dropped the car off. . .whoever dropped the car off. . .found the once place in the parking lot with no video cameras. . .so anyone could have dropped it off.

[docyabut2 2,951]

It was said Joseph was suffering from a mysterious illness of which the family confirms. They could have been inquiring of some illegal medical drug or treatment .It was never said why they were even seeking plans to go Mexico. It could be possible they drove there and attempted to walk the border and met up with some one and taken.

[regi 2,780]

This is the Timewarrior speaking. the private investigator in the cnn documentary pointed out many things about that supposed trip to mexico. In his opinion, it didn't happen. first of all. . .if they were killed in mexico, they would have been buried in mexico. . .not in California. they would not have transported the bodies across the border. second, the time the car was left at the parking lot was 5 pm, the time it was discovered and impounded was 5:30. . .the time of the surveillance video was 7:30. If it was the McStays, then where the heck were they for 2 hours in between dropping their car off. . .and crossing the border. . .third. . .we don't even know if they dropped the car off. . .whoever dropped the car off. . .found the once place in the parking lot with no video cameras. . .so anyone could have dropped it off.

Also, the car wasn't parked in there until 4 days after they missing...

Anyway, it looks to me like the perp wanted it to appear as though they'd crossed the border.

Just FYI...

For those who missed the CNN episode on the case (like I did) it's on their schedule to air again tonight at 9:00 PM, CST.

[timewarrior 272]

Also, the car wasn't parked in there until 4 days after they missing...

Anyway, it looks to me like the perp wanted it to appear as though they'd crossed the border.

Just FYI...

For those who missed the CNN episode on the case (like I did) it's on their schedule to air again tonight at 9:00 PM, CST.

This is the Timewarrior speaking. I highly recommend you all to watch it. This is a most unusual case and quite frankly I think there has been so much diversion in it that most of us have misconceptions of what actually happened.

[docyabut2 2,951]

Also, the car wasn't parked in there until 4 days after they missing...

Anyway, it looks to me like the perp wanted it to appear as though they'd crossed the border.

Just FYI...

For those who missed the CNN episode on the case (like I did) it's on their schedule to air again tonight at 9:00 PM, CST.

That's also possible that they were abducted from their home and driven to the spot where they were murdered and then the killers drove their car to appear they were going to Mexico, but why that last phone call to his business partner after driving away and why the killers would have allowed that call ? and why the search on their PC on how to get kids into Mexico?

Edited July 6, 2014 by docyabut2

[mbrn30000 1,169]

Ok just watched the CNN story. I remembered this story, but I never knew they were found. I guess I have not heard anything in a year or so. I think I have more questions. First how much was that company worth? How much did Kavanaugh take out of it? And how did he transfer ownership? The brother makes me suspicious a little. If the car was dumped near the border it means the family was kidnapped there, or convinced to leave it there or there were at least two people involved. If the car was dumped then someone had to be driving it and another driving the car they left in. Since the dumpsite is north, I think the killer or killers came from LA or Orange County. I have driven all over this area from vegas to san diego to LA to joshua tree, victorville, you name it. I want to know why the brother reacted the way he did. He said he waited to report it because after 10 days the cops treat it like a homicide? Now how and why would he know that? When did he know that? I don't know that? Never heard that? most people know the rule about 24 hrs to report missing people, but this involved children. And on top of that he waited to the 11th day. I know siblings are not always close, but it still seems strange. Why didn't the mother call the police. They will come by, and once they see the state of the house, I would think they would make a report.

Now as far as why a family would take off at a minutes notice?

Perhaps someone called and requested assistance...I am out of gas? my car is broken down? It still seems strange if someone called for assistance, why they would all have to go. Of course maybe it was suppose to be a trip to urgent car for one of the kids. I would think both parents would go and of course take the other kid. It's possible one of them needed urgent care and then they would all have to go. Perhaps they were abducted at some point by strangers. Do they have everyone's phone records I wonder? Perhaps someone needed their car to carry illegals north...ok thats a stretch. So what does everyone think?

Edited July 6, 2014 by mbrn30000

[regi 2,780]

Oh, wow.

First of all, I'd overlooked it before but since I now know more about it, the hesitancy to act... and then the delay to alert authorities really bothers me.

I don't have any issues with Kavanaugh.

There were a few things cleared up for me. The toys found covered with a sheet in the back of the car were evidently birthday gifts. (One of the children had a birthday coming up that weekend.)

Anyway, I'd previously thought that those toys could be a clue of what the family's activities might have been and I still think there could be a clue there.

That about Joseph experiencing an undiagnosed illness, those symptoms sound to me like they could have been potentially serious....possibly neurological and if the doctors didn't perform a cat scan, then they eventually should have. (Just sayin'.)

I don't recall if it was mentioned in the program, but I read in an article that the day the family went missing, Summer had purchased an herbal medicine and it makes sense to me that if the doctors hadn't helped Joseph, then Summer would do what she could to try to help him.

I have to say, I'm a bit taken aback by some of the revelations and my perception of them and in a word, I'm confused and I think I just need more time to sit with it....

Needless to say, it's so very disappointing that authorities don't appear (to me) to have any idea about this case.

At the very least, it seems to me that they could determine the family's movements to some degree (by phone recs., bank statements and receipts... and common sense!) but they don't appear they have or that it was even possible!

Edited July 6, 2014 by regi

[regi 2,780]

That's also possible that they were abducted from their home and driven to the spot where they were murdered and then the killers drove their car to appear they were going to Mexico, but why that last phone call to his business partner after driving away and why the killers would have allowed that call ? and why the search on their PC on how to get kids into Mexico?

(Sorry... I didn't see your post.)

The way I see the call, I think it's possible it was part of staging.

I'd previously thought that the family would likely be found in that area of the Bonsall Bridge because of that last ping, but even then, if Joseph had made the call, the family would have had to have been elsewhere for a certain time because that location was close to their home but the ping occurred 41 minutes later.

I don't give the computer search re: Mexico any weight because it doesn't appear to me to be relevant to what ultimately happened.

I think the car scenario was staged and I think that's the best clue as to who the perp is. I mean- as we know by now- staging indicates someone with a known association.

[docyabut2 2,951]

It seems their murders had something to do with going Mexico, why their search for pass ports? Investigators found searches for the phrase "What documents do children need for traveling to Mexico and searches for Spanish language lessons.^[Why was the car found near the Mexican border ? What was the hurry to leave the house? The brother may be suspicious he took their computer out of their house before the Investigators got a hold of it.

[Vincennes 1,791]

Also, the car wasn't parked in there until 4 days after they missing...

Anyway, it looks to me like the perp wanted it to appear as though they'd crossed the border.

Just FYI...

For those who missed the CNN episode on the case (like I did) it's on their schedule to air again tonight at 9:00 PM, CST.

Thanks for posting the time of that replay !

I might be wrong but it occurred to me that it was the San Diego Sheriff's dept. that did the investigation on the Zahua case (?) I think McStay's father was right when he said that he and a group of boy scouts could have done it better ! What were they thinking !!

There were a couple of things that struck me as I watched. Although I know it was a representation of the way the house was left. They twice referred to the fact that the kitchen was left with egg and coffee debris. Well, if they didn't leave or weren't taken until evening, it's odd to me that there were eggs on the counter. That makes me think breakfast. Is that another break in the time period accounted for? They said that McStay had gone for breakfast with his business associate, so that takes him away at breakfast. That leaves Summer and the children alone at breakfast. Did someone enter then and hold them until evening ?

I would also like to know what went on with Summer and her relatives. McStay's mother said that Summer told her the night before the wedding that she had just told her relatives not to come. That's an odd happening. True, any family might have some bad things going on but to announce it the night before the wedding caught my attention. The special didn't indicate anything in follow up to that relationship.

I also did have a problem with Kavanaugh's final statements that he was part owner of the business ?? Okay, take it that they did have a "gentlemen's" agreement that he had a share, why wasn't he looking for his partner in those ten days. The major partner is gone and you just think he's on an unscheduled vacation ?? Just like the brother's lack of interest during those ten days, that's odd.

[regi 2,780]

Thanks for posting the time of that replay !

You're very welcome! By the time I looked for it, I guess I missed it, and I was disappointed, but I've learned that they'll soon repeat those programs.

I might be wrong but it occurred to me that it was the San Diego Sheriff's dept. that did the investigation on the Zahua case (?) I think McStay's father was right when he said that he and a group of boy scouts could have done it better ! What were they thinking !!

I guess it was the sheriff's office who investigated that case, but I really don't recall...but..."Boy Scouts"! Yeah, I got quite a kick out of that comment, too.

What got me most, though, was his obvious frustration with Michael that he wouldn't check on the family.

There were a couple of things that struck me as I watched. Although I know it was a representation of the way the house was left. They twice referred to the fact that the kitchen was left with egg and coffee debris. Well, if they didn't leave or weren't taken until evening, it's odd to me that there were eggs on the counter. That makes me think breakfast. Is that another break in the time period accounted for? They said that McStay had gone for breakfast with his business associate, so that takes him away at breakfast. That leaves Summer and the children alone at breakfast. Did someone enter then and hold them until evening ?

Yeah, I thought 'breakfast' too, when they said eggs were out, but since Summer had made that call and the purchase (for the herb. med.) that afternoon, I doubt anything sinister had begun to occur before then.

Also, it was apparently established that it was at lunchtime that Joseph had met the business assoc..

At this point, looks to me like they either left in a hurry or they didn't intend to be gone long.

I also did have a problem with Kavanaugh's final statements that he was part owner of the business ?? Okay, take it that they did have a "gentlemen's" agreement that he had a share, why wasn't he looking for his partner in those ten days. The major partner is gone and you just think he's on an unscheduled vacation ?? Just like the brother's lack of interest during those ten days, that's odd.

Kevanaugh seemed alarmed rather quickly and he alerted Joseph's father and I was impressed by that.

And it sounds to me like he must have consulted with Michael before he moved any money around because Micheal said he did the same thing.

I would also like to know what went on with Summer and her relatives. McStay's mother said that Summer told her the night before the wedding that she had just told her relatives not to come. That's an odd happening. True, any family might have some bad things going on but to announce it the night before the wedding caught my attention. The special didn't indicate anything in follow up to that relationship.

It sounds to me like there were family issues, but likely nothing I'd consider especially out of the ordinary.

[Vincennes 1,791]

(Sorry... I didn't see your post.)

The way I see the call, I think it's possible it was part of staging.

I'd previously thought that the family would likely be found in that area of the Bonsall Bridge because of that last ping, but even then, if Joseph had made the call, the family would have had to have been elsewhere for a certain time because that location was close to their home but the ping occurred 41 minutes later.

I don't give the computer search re: Mexico any weight because it doesn't appear to me to be relevant to what ultimately happened.

I think the car scenario was staged and I think that's the best clue as to who the perp is. I mean- as we know by now- staging indicates someone with a known association.

Your post and Docy's came on line while I was posting. I don't give the call much relevance either. He would have had that number on the phone as an automatic dial so it could have even been an accidental "butt dial"

by someone involved. IMO only it's location is interesting.

I also have to tentatively agree with Docy re the brother taking the computer. Why take it out of the house ? You might want to search history or something to see what's going on but why take it in order to do that ?

I do have a question here that I'm posing out of sheer ignorance. It's easy to change the date and time on your computer if you are not on the internet. Could someone with programming knowledge, restart the computer and backdate it ? Do the phony searches, then restart and change to the correct date. Would the computer then adjust those date and times in correct order and the searches would look like they happened whenever you wanted them to be ? I know there would be some kind of tracks left in doing that but I'm hoping someone here knows if it's possible. Then, my next question is even if tracks were left with the way this investigation has been handled, do you think the San Diego police would be capable of finding that the way this investigation has gone ? Probably a silly question, but with my lack of computer expertise, I'm wondering ?

[mbrn30000 1,169]

The father said he has three suspects. One he said has a criminal record including attempted murder and assault wdw. I tend to have 4 suspects, but knowing all 4 or at least 3 could be totally innocent. Seems the one with a criminal record would be easy to figure out if he/she has been named in the news stories. Anyone know who he means?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mcstay-family-update-joseph-mcstays-father-says-he-suspects-three-people-in-familys-2010-disappearance-murders/

I think the mexican searches online for passport info could be significant, but it could be just looking into maybe a vacation in Cabo some time later. Cabo is safe from what i hear. I would like to know what other searches were done online during that time..perhaps that would explain it. If you are walking into mexico you need absolutely nothing to get in. Its only when you try to go so many miles from the border do you get asked for papers. Getting back to the USA is another question. I am not sure how the border is now, I am sure its much stricter. I have not been there since 911. I think the family was lured somewhere. I also think if it were a random kidnapping, why feel the need to bury the bodies? Seems a stranger would want possession of their bodies for a short of time as possible. Of course some killers have their own way of thinking. But odds are the killer or killers knew this family very well or were hired by someone who knew them very well. I want to know more about this business. Seems like both brother and business partner were helping themselves to assets,although they both claim for the benefit of the family and their business. Seems like a forensic accountant, not to mention the IRS would want to take a look at the books...you cannot just take money from a partnership or corporation without accounting for it, even if you just show it as a drawing or income to the beneficiary of the funds. So many questions.

[regi 2,780]

I don't give the call much relevance either. He would have had that number on the phone as an automatic dial so it could have even been an accidental "butt dial"

by someone involved. IMO only it's location is interesting.

Butt dial. Hey, it's possible. There apparently wasn't a message....

Yes, I agree...the location is what I think is most interesting/revealing about that ping. Obviously, his phone was there at that time...

You know, it'd be helpful to know if that phone was found at the discovery site. Authorities said they found some sort of evidence at the site, but wouldn't say what it was.

I also have to tentatively agree with Docy re the brother taking the computer. Why take it out of the house ? You might want to search history or something to see what's going on but why take it in order to do that ?

Oh, I think that his removal of the computer from the house was an interesting and rather aggressive/bold move. I wonder when he did that because it was over a week that he wasn't too concerned.

Then, my next question is even if tracks were left with the way this investigation has been handled, do you think the San Diego police would be capable of finding that the way this investigation has gone ?

[Vincennes 1,791]

I just thought of one other thing that really bothered me watching the special. Perhaps I misunderstood what they were saying but I'll just throw this out to see if it struck anyone else as odd

They keep saying this must have been so well planned with masterful diversion making it look like they went to Mexico. So they park the car in a strip mall close to the border and that strip mall just happened to have no working cameras ???? Not even the bank camera right across from the car was working ????

In this day and age that strikes me as being a real stroke of luck for the perpetrators. If it were me I would have thought the bank's cameras would have me leaving that car........ So, if I were so masterful, I would have probably chosen another spot that was more unlikely to have camera coverage; e.g., a park, an alley, etc.

The chose a strip mall in front of a bank and don't expect to me seen ????

(Yeah, Reg, my lawn guy butt dialed me just the other day while mowing my lawn ..... I ran out expecting he had cut his leg off only to find him happily mowing away.It was in his pocket as he merrily bounced along )

[regi 2,780]

The father said he has three suspects. One he said has a criminal record including attempted murder and assault wdw. I tend to have 4 suspects, but knowing all 4 or at least 3 could be totally innocent. Seems the one with a criminal record would be easy to figure out if he/she has been named in the news stories. Anyone know who he means?

http://www.cbsnews.c...arance-murders/

I can imagine a couple...

It seems to me he could be right about there having been involvement of two people.

(Yeah, Reg, my lawn guy butt dialed me just the other day while mowing my lawn ..... I ran out expecting he had cut his leg off only to find him happily mowing away.It was in his pocket as he merrily bounced along )

I just thought of one other thing that really bothered me watching the special. Perhaps I misunderstood what they were saying but I'll just throw this out to see if it struck anyone else as odd

They keep saying this must have been so well planned with masterful diversion making it look like they went to Mexico. So they park the car in a strip mall close to the border and that strip mall just happened to have no working cameras ???? Not even the bank camera right across from the car was working ????

In this day and age that strikes me as being a real stroke of luck for the perpetrators. If it were me I would have thought the bank's cameras would have me leaving that car........ So, if I were so masterful, I would have probably chosen another spot that was more unlikely to have camera coverage; e.g., a park, an alley, etc.

Yeah, Vin, I was struck by that too, and you're right (good point!)...the perp(s) surely would have been aware and (I would think) conscientious of video surveillance, but you know, the family wasn't reported missing until days after the car was parked and by then, I wonder how reasonable it would be to have assumed that any potential video would have been taped over by then.

[mbrn30000 1,169]

I just thought of one other thing that really bothered me watching the special. Perhaps I misunderstood what they were saying but I'll just throw this out to see if it struck anyone else as odd

They keep saying this must have been so well planned with masterful diversion making it look like they went to Mexico. So they park the car in a strip mall close to the border and that strip mall just happened to have no working cameras ???? Not even the bank camera right across from the car was working ????

In this day and age that strikes me as being a real stroke of luck for the perpetrators. If it were me I would have thought the bank's cameras would have me leaving that car........ So, if I were so masterful, I would have probably chosen another spot that was more unlikely to have camera coverage; e.g., a park, an alley, etc.

The chose a strip mall in front of a bank and don't expect to me seen ????

(Yeah, Reg, my lawn guy butt dialed me just the other day while mowing my lawn ..... I ran out expecting he had cut his leg off only to find him happily mowing away.It was in his pocket as he merrily bounced along )

I keep trying to think who could make an entire family leave the house? How long before was the computer search for children going to mexico? Maybe the ex said she was going to take their child to mexico and joseph got curious if she would need a passport? Maybe the ex was setting him up by talking about mexico. Also could an ex calling you saying something is wrong with your child make you come running? and what if she said, there is a problem with your child at the border crossing, come get him, meet me at that plaza next to the pedestrian walkway.....and they all decided to take the ride over there....who could benefit from this family dying but the only surviving heir? ok this is speculation, i of course do not want to accuse anyone...Does this ex have a new male in her life? Was there building jealousy and speculation that Joseph was rich and holding out? wonder wonder.

you also have to wonder about the cameras. were there never any in that lot, at that bank pointing out or were they out of service? if out of service did vandals do it? if none there, someone could have realized no coverage....but with today's mini cameras who could ever be sure? Maybe a hired killer was a former cop or bank guard at that bank...ok another stretch...

Edited July 6, 2014 by mbrn30000

[regi 2,780]

I think the mexican searches online for passport info could be significant, but it could be just looking into maybe a vacation in Cabo some time later. Cabo is safe from what i hear. I would like to know what other searches were done online during that time..perhaps that would explain it. If you are walking into mexico you need absolutely nothing to get in. Its only when you try to go so many miles from the border do you get asked for papers. Getting back to the USA is another question.

You've made an excellent and valuable point there: Docs. are needed to return to the U.S.

I also think if it were a random kidnapping, why feel the need to bury the bodies?

I think they didn't want the bodies found because they didn't want it known they'd been murdered.

[Vincennes 1,791]

I keep trying to think who could make an entire family leave the house? How long before was the computer search for children going to mexico? Maybe the ex said she was going to take their child to mexico and joseph got curious if she would need a passport? Maybe the ex was setting him up by talking about mexico. Also could an ex calling you saying something is wrong with your child make you come running? and what if she said, there is a problem with your child at the border crossing, come get him, meet me at that plaza next to the pedestrian walkway.....and they all decided to take the ride over there....who could benefit from this family dying but the only surviving heir? ok this is speculation, i of course do not want to accuse anyone...Does this ex have a new male in her life? Was there building jealousy and speculation that Joseph was rich and holding out? wonder wonder.

you also have to wonder about the cameras. were there never any in that lot, at that bank pointing out or were they out of service? if out of service did vandals do it? if none there, someone could have realized no coverage....but with today's mini cameras who could ever be sure? Maybe a hired killer was a former cop or bank guard at that bank...ok another stretch...

Wow ! The ex really is a thought. Lieutenant, I think we need to bring that girl in for more questioning.

I've been thinking through different scenarios and, using the oldest child, she could certainly easily move them out of the house in a flash. She might also have a motive. I know this is entirely speculation but she could have said I'm having trouble getting him back across the border, left him there, met me at the strip mall so we can talk first. They would have then been solely the ones jumping from the car. The special also said that Summer was a little jealous of the first wife. That would play out to why she was right there riding along with him !

What she might not have planned on was Kavanagh and the brother getting to the business and the money first. Could that be why they did ? Could it be a let's see that it's not there when she fixes to go after it ?

Just speculating, nothing real behind it. I do wish there was a little more investigative reporting on this case. I haven't been able to find much at all except for the CNN special.

[mbrn30000 1,169]

What if the best friend Chase was in on it? What if it were the ex and him, and some other person? that phone call might have just been a signal that its done. The pocket or butt dial is interesting, but if his Voicemail picked up, and nobody had noticed the butt dial, then it would have recorded what was happening for the 2 or 3 mins...Chase seems to resent Summer quite a bit. Perhaps they both set it up. Somebody either called that family and got them to leave, or they kidnapped them from the start. Given that Joseph drove away from the house, I think they got a phone call. Not many people in your life can make you leave like that. Not trying to accuse anyone, but according to wikipedia...and I know they can be inaccurate, Chase had a record. Not the record the father was speaking of, but theft type crimes. The father does say in another article he thought it could be Summer's ex boyfriend. But I would check out Joseph's ex and any other male in her life - boyfriend, friend, brother, husband. If she is involved she did not do it alone. It could have been as simple as...we are at the border and your son is sick and now we cant take him. Can you meet us at the plaza and keep him. Then people in a van met them instead. The ex could have made those calls from her home. Chase if he were involved might have arranged the muscle. Just total speculation again. I am not accusing anyone, but it is a possible scenario.