JGirl Posted July 7, 2014 #26 Share Posted July 7, 2014 oh, that fracking 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 8, 2014 #27 Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) We could plant millions of more trees, and then chop them down and burn them in order to create electric. And also solar power if used on every roof would create more then enough electric. Plus some one created a solar road cell that interlinks with thousands of others to make roads solar panels. If all new roads had to be those then in 50-100 years we will have surplus electric. Trees need certain time to grow, though some farmers, actually, do grow fast growing willows as the source for biofuel, but that means less land for food crops.Road solar panels - bonkers, just another pinkish idea. And you can cover, for example, US from coast to coast (every single square inch) with PV panels, without certain amount of storage capacities that would be waste of resources. Edit: fixed link Edited July 8, 2014 by bmk1245 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2014 #28 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Storage is the vital missing ingredient that makes it all work, but the technology needed for pumped storage is old hat having been with us for over a half century at this stage. Its no impediment to the penetration of renewables - its just a matter of the will to build it which isn't there yet. Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted July 8, 2014 #29 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Fracking has given me much cheaper gas and heating bills. So I do benefit from it. But I can see the harm it can/will do. I would rather had left the coal restrictions off and concentrated on fracking restrictions. We have coal out the wazoo and there are so many jobs associated with it. The plant I manage at used to burn coal for steam and power. We had put a baghouse in ($8 million) that limited our emissions to almost nothing. Did that 8 years ago. Now with the new restrictions on coal, we had to stop burning coal and put in a couple massive natural gas boilers. Now we are dependent on fracking (well, the cheap gas anyway). Solar or wind is not even close to being an option for the plant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 8, 2014 #30 Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) Storage is the vital missing ingredient that makes it all work, but the technology needed for pumped storage is old hat having been with us for over a half century at this stage. Its no impediment to the penetration of renewables - its just a matter of the will to build it which isn't there yet. Br Cornelius Crucial point you put here - to build it. Take, for example, pumped-storage hydroelectricity, and you'll have Dr. Fruit Fly and his followers marching against that. And grid-capacity-size batteries (NiCd, Pb, Li, etc) still are not viable/cheap source of storage. Edited July 8, 2014 by bmk1245 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2014 #31 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Crucial point you put here - to build it. Take, for example, pumped-storage hydroelectricity, and you'll have Dr. Fruit Fly and his followers marching against that. And grid-capacity-size batteries (NiCd, Pb, Li, etc) still are not viable/cheap source of storage. Pumped storage can and will be built and it will be cheaper than the other alternatives in the medium term Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rashore Posted July 8, 2014 #32 Share Posted July 8, 2014 And what is your solution for gas demand? Don't say 'solar/wind', cause world leaders in renewables - Germany, Denmark - are still very far away from fully solar/wind. This might not be a good suggestion but... Methane collection. Our landfills have methane vents that we could be collecting instead of blowing off into the air. The farming industry could be harnessing it off of animal manure too- some farmers actually run their farms with the energy collected off animal waste. It might not be a great solution, but it might be more helpful to harness that instead of letting it go into the air uselessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 8, 2014 #33 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Pumped storage can and will be built and it will be cheaper than the other alternatives in the medium term Br Cornelius Will be built again... Thats the crucial point. where to build, what to build?... damn... lost the train of thought...Ah, yeah, Norway can serve as storage for Europe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 8, 2014 #34 Share Posted July 8, 2014 This might not be a good suggestion but... Methane collection. Our landfills have methane vents that we could be collecting instead of blowing off into the air. The farming industry could be harnessing it off of animal manure too- some farmers actually run their farms with the energy collected off animal waste. It might not be a great solution, but it might be more helpful to harness that instead of letting it go into the air uselessly. Yep, one of the sources for generator to spin. Just a minor detail - collecting that fart is a bit difficult... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rashore Posted July 8, 2014 #35 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Yep, one of the sources for generator to spin. Just a minor detail - collecting that fart is a bit difficult... You don't collect farts silly. You collect the gas that is already being vented. Traditionally the biggest problem with methane is transporting it once it's collected. A way past that is to set up the generator where the methane is being collected. Like right off the vent pipes at a landfill or in the manure barn at a farm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 8, 2014 #36 Share Posted July 8, 2014 You don't collect farts silly. You collect the gas that is already being vented. Traditionally the biggest problem with methane is transporting it once it's collected. A way past that is to set up the generator where the methane is being collected. Like right off the vent pipes at a landfill or in the manure barn at a farm. Ok, I've been corrected, with all efforts to collect methane, biggest problem is to transfer it to the "mouth" of generator. Can't argue with that, honestly, luck of details... <no sarcasm here>. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rashore Posted July 8, 2014 #37 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Ok, I've been corrected, with all efforts to collect methane, biggest problem is to transfer it to the "mouth" of generator. Can't argue with that, honestly, luck of details... <no sarcasm here>. Well, that's what an anaerobic digester is for This site is an example of information about it out of Wisconsin for farmers: http://www.wisconsinpublicservice.com/business/methane_gas.aspx Like I said before, this sort of thing might not be the best solution for fracking.. But I think it's better than wasting the resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 8, 2014 #38 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Well, that's what an anaerobic digester is for This site is an example of information about it out of Wisconsin for farmers: http://www.wisconsin...ethane_gas.aspx Like I said before, this sort of thing might not be the best solution for fracking.. But I think it's better than wasting the resource. Looked at it, don't see average electricity generation values per hundred "heads"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted July 8, 2014 #39 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Well everyone In Texas gives a Frack ! We want it stopped ! The aquafiers are too much to loose ! The chem`s go somewhere ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticStrummer Posted July 8, 2014 #40 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Well everyone In Texas gives a Frack ! We want it stopped ! The aquafiers are too much to loose ! The chem`s go somewhere ! As a fellow Texan I second this emotion! Also, here's an article I just ran across... http://sciencealert.com.au/news/20140506-25618.html Tell me why we can't have clean energy again…? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rashore Posted July 8, 2014 #41 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Looked at it, don't see average electricity generation values per hundred "heads"... Well, I only meant the article as an example of information about what a digester does. But some articles with a little more info about power that can be put out- According to this article, 1,050 cows can produce enough waste to make 250-300 kilowatts a day, enough to service 300-350 homes. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/business/businessspecial2/24farmers.html?_r=0 According to this one, one cow produces enough waste in a day to run two 100 watt bulbs for 24 hours. http://www.s4e.co.in/waste_cattle_dung.php This study is specific to chicken manure: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bit.260231013/abstract And this one has a comparison of swine, poultry, dairy cows, and beef cattle: http://extension.missouri.edu/publications/DisplayPub.aspx?P=G1881 Here's some information about methane and landfills: http://www.epa.gov/methane/lmop/basic-info/index.html And an article about methane and landfills: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/nyregion/nyregionspecial2/14Rmethane.html?pagewanted=all Just for s&g's, some information about home compost piles and energy, AKA Jean Pain method.... http://taboodada.wordpress.com/2012/08/07/electricity-through-compost/ http://smallfarms.cornell.edu/2012/10/01/compost-power/ and a neat project utilizing compost power: http://www.uvm.edu/sustain/clean-energy-fund/cef-projects/compost-power-using-compost-power-to-heat-a-greenhouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 8, 2014 #42 Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) Thanks, Rashore I'll "jump" into your links tomorrow, today I'm in sorrow... 0:5 1:7... Edited July 8, 2014 by bmk1245 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatus1 Posted July 9, 2014 #43 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I'll stick with nuclear, but only if the U.S. goes all in, not the half-assed regulations that result in tons of nuclear waste. Better yet, I'll go with a massive underwater multiple reactor nuclear facility and figure out how to wirelessly transmit power everywhere in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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