Will Jesus Sentence Me to Hell?

[Mr Walker]

Free will leads to Sin, and there's no Sin in Heaven.So yes Robots do go to Heaven.

Isaiah 65:16-17

16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

http://www.biblegate...1-4&version=KJV

Revelation 21:1-4

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

I like this, but I don't think it means what you think it means. (apologies to the princess bride) After the cleansing of the old earth and the population of the new earth, humans will be no different to now. Like adam and eve, they will have free will. However everyone who is on that new earth will have learned the ultimate lessons of life. They wont make the mistakes of adam and eve. Even though they have free will, they will choose to live in harmony with god and their environment, and with each other, thus fulfilling the prophecy of revelation where sin will exist no more.Sin is not banished because those humans cannot sin, it ceases to exist because they choose not to sin. This is also much easier when one is living with god inside your heart and mind constantly. hence we are told while on earth to live a sinless life as much as we can in practice for life on the new earth. Only those who demonstrate a abilty to be safe to et into 'heaven" will be allowed there. This doesn't mean being perfect, but TRYING to be, because we love god.

[Mr Walker]

The bible contradicts itself. Over the centuries it has been altered and manipulated to suit each religious sects views.

First there was the Counsel Of Nicea which organized the first Canon. Then centuries later Martin Luther left the

Catholic church and formed the Lutherans and removed books from the Catholic bible and basically created their

own Canon. Then Henry the 8th left the Catholic church and started the Church Of England. Then you have the

Mormons who created their own bible called The Book Of The Mormon. I can see why it's hard to put faith in a

doctrine when it has been changed so many times over the course of the centuries. The only thing that make sense

to me in the bible (and I've said this in other threads) is The 10 Commandments. Don't kill, Don't steal. Don't Cheat,

Honor your Parents (etc)

Before the 10 commandments comes the instruction to love self, to love god, and to love all others AS you love yourself. (Because a person who cannot love themselves doesn't know how to love another person) if I had to sum the bible up in one lie tha twould be it. God loves me with a incredible love This demonstrates to me how to love myself, how to love others, and how to love god back. It is like having very loving and effective parents.. Whey show you how to love by their own all encompassing love, it is almost impossible not to love them back just as much.

[Mr Walker]

Well whatever he was, I was a fan of his work and I was sad when he died. Whatever else he was guilty of it seems the children in his life were happy.

Did he die? I assume then it is his son making all those Christian films about pioneering in the west, based on a couple of series of novels?

[quiXilver]

Why waste time answering a post that is deliberately trolling? I am sure PA (and I ) wanted to know if the question was genuine or not. If it is then it deserves a considered response, if not then to respond is a waste of time. Your opinions on Christianity re your entitlement but they happen to be largely wrong That might be because of the cultural and historical perspective you are coming from. I know for example, that while Jesuits have an excellent reputation in Europe and European settled countries as educators and philosophers/theologians, they are not so respected in asia, where their association with early missionary and colonial expansion sometimes taints their reputation.

funny how murdering people's children to coerce them to profess belief in your invisible man can mess with your reputation?

[Frank Merton]

We've seen it twice now on this thread -- efforts to shut atheists or nonbelievers up without responding to them rationally. Questioning their motives in one case and accusing Davos of whatever it was in the other. I get the feeling some people don't like hearing such things.

[+Link of Hyrule]

Hmm, I don't get it, every thread here is 'baiting people into an argument' if you want to look at it that way. Everyone is of course totally free to not participate until they determine what someone's motive was, but alternatively you could have provided an informed answer and then let the poster plainly lay bare their motive. I did think your initial response was somewhat obtuse, I thought it was clear that the OP was asking: if Christianity is true, what will be his fate given his attributes, including not believing in Christianity. I seriously doubt if a Christian here was to ask, 'Under Hinduism or Islam, what will be my fate as a Christian in the afterlife?', it would likewise be met with a response of, 'why are you asking about something you don't believe in?'. I guess I just bristle at this type of 'what is your true mindset' response because, first, like the 'was Jesus gay' thread, some are being instigated by relatively new UM members and secondly, they seem to only go in one direction; can't say I've ever seen a non-believer check believer's motives when being asked a plain question and have never seem them resort here to, 'I think this question is just being asked to cause offense', as if people here are mind-readers. (with due respect to you specifically PA, the above is not all pointed at or referring to you).

My non-Christian answer to the OP is that under the normative path for salvation, only the being an atheist part will keep you from heaven. It's questionable whether hell is a lake of fire, just the state of not being one with god, or whether when you die the unsaved just, well, truly die. I think also that Christians are not really supposed to be answering your question as you put it, there is a lot of variation in what Jesus' admonition against judging specifically means, but I'm of the impression that at the very least Christians aren't supposed to be telling non-Christians (and maybe Christians too although they are allowed and instructed I believe to evaluate or 'judge' fellow Christians) they are going to hell; that is not their role, they are not without sin, they are not in a position to judge this, only God/Jesus are. God will have mercy upon whom it pleases God to have mercy; The. End.

I hoped to learn his motives. To use an example, a possible (and I stress, possible, I'm not saying this IS how it would go down) is:

Duelix: Will Jesus send me to hell for being atheist?

PA: "Hell" is an inaccurate term, but the idea that there is an alternative to heaven for those who haven't accepted Christ is theologically correct, therefore Jesus would send you to hell, not for being an atheist, but for not accepting the gift of eternal life through the Holy Spirit.

Duelix: See how dogmatic and brainwashed people like you are! You only know one thing about me (my atheism) and you've already judged that I'm destined to burn. Doesn't your own beliefs teach you not to judge, and yet here you are condemning me to hell for simply being who I am!!!!!!

Or perhaps he'd have answered differently. I don't know. I was attempting to find out his motives, because if it was just a way for him to open the door into ridiculing the idea that heaven is only for those saved by Christ, then I would simply not respond period full stop. However, if it turned out that he was sincerely interested in hearing the various interpretations of the Bible, how and why different Christians have different ideas as to exactly what hell is, then I'd happily engage in discussion of the matter. And just to pull one more point out, I'd like to address the following:

I seriously doubt if a Christian here was to ask, 'Under Hinduism or Islam, what will be my fate as a Christian in the afterlife?', it would likewise be met with a response of, 'why are you asking about something you don't believe in?'.

I know this may sound like semantics, but that's not the same question as asked by the thread starter. The thread starter asked "am I going to hell", not "what will be my fate"? While roughly the same content will be in the answer, due to the nature of the question I think "am I going to hell"? is a more aggressive question than asking my fate. If I ask a Muslim "am I going to hell for not following Allah" it's a deal different question than asking "what is my fate if I do not follow Allah"? That's how I read the question in any case.

[Frank Merton]

I don't think a poster's motives are relevant. The point they are making should be answered, not their motive. Doing so seems a tactic to undermine the poster and distract from the question asked.

[Davros of Skaro]

I like this, but I don't think it means what you think it means. (apologies to the princess bride) After the cleansing of the old earth and the population of the new earth, humans will be no different to now. Like adam and eve, they will have free will. However everyone who is on that new earth will have learned the ultimate lessons of life. They wont make the mistakes of adam and eve. Even though they have free will, they will choose to live in harmony with god and their environment, and with each other, thus fulfilling the prophecy of revelation where sin will exist no more.Sin is not banished because those humans cannot sin, it ceases to exist because they choose not to sin. This is also much easier when one is living with god inside your heart and mind constantly. hence we are told while on earth to live a sinless life as much as we can in practice for life on the new earth. Only those who demonstrate a abilty to be safe to et into 'heaven" will be allowed there. This doesn't mean being perfect, but TRYING to be, because we love god.

Hail the new Dawn!

[your_dark_passenger]

I am an atheist, I support Gay rights, drink, vote liberal, listen to alternative music and have not been baptized. I have done some good and I am overall a decent person, in light of these facts will I be thrown into the lake of or granted mercy?

Yes he will

[Frank Merton]

Yes he will

Because he votes liberal?

[JJ50]

Only a psychopath would condemn anyone to hell, especially for nothing more than unbelief!

[DefenceMinisterMishkin]

No, because he is your friend.

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[Frank Merton]

Only a psychopath would condemn anyone to hell, especially for nothing more than unbelief!

That's one of the things that gives me hope about the modern era compared to earlier times; a lot of people now realize that.

[White Crane Feather]

I know my Youtube education is no match to your psychic powers, but here is my main source of wisdom.

That link was strangely appropriate. But seriously you must not like me, because I would not wish that video on anyone.

Here is something easier to listen to.

Edited July 8, 2014 by White Crane Feather

[White Crane Feather]

Did he die? I assume then it is his son making all those Christian films about pioneering in the west, based on a couple of series of novels?

Yes. Pancreatic Cancer I believe. He does have a son that's a jr.

[Doug1029]

That's one of the things that gives me hope about the modern era compared to earlier times; a lot of people now realize that.

It might say more about the original writers and those who now use the idea to terrorize others into joining their churches than it does about god, jesus et al.

Doug

[Duke Wellington]

Hmm, I don't get it, every thread here is 'baiting people into an argument' if you want to look at it that way. Everyone is of course totally free to not participate until they determine what someone's motive was, but alternatively you could have provided an informed answer and then let the poster plainly lay bare their motive. I did think your initial response was somewhat obtuse, I thought it was clear that the OP was asking: if Christianity is true, what will be his fate given his attributes, including not believing in Christianity. I seriously doubt if a Christian here was to ask, 'Under Hinduism or Islam, what will be my fate as a Christian in the afterlife?', it would likewise be met with a response of, 'why are you asking about something you don't believe in?'. I guess I just bristle at this type of 'what is your true mindset' response because, first, like the 'was Jesus gay' thread, some are being instigated by relatively new UM members and secondly, they seem to only go in one direction; can't say I've ever seen a non-believer check believer's motives when being asked a plain question and have never seem them resort here to, 'I think this question is just being asked to cause offense', as if people here are mind-readers. (with due respect to you specifically PA, the above is not all pointed at or referring to you).

My non-Christian answer to the OP is that under the normative path for salvation, only the being an atheist part will keep you from heaven. It's questionable whether hell is a lake of fire, just the state of not being one with god, or whether when you die the unsaved just, well, truly die. I think also that Christians are not really supposed to be answering your question as you put it, there is a lot of variation in what Jesus' admonition against judging specifically means, but I'm of the impression that at the very least Christians aren't supposed to be telling non-Christians (and maybe Christians too although they are allowed and instructed I believe to evaluate or 'judge' fellow Christians) they are going to hell; that is not their role, they are not without sin, they are not in a position to judge this, only God/Jesus are. God will have mercy upon whom it pleases God to have mercy; The. End.

At University when we review someones research we ask is this an opinion? is it biased? Does it contain factual inaccuracies? Does the author have a political agenda? etc, etc. We are taught to be critical.

One thing missing from a lot of contributions is the ability to criticise one owns point of view. That isnt specifically an attack on religion but on the atheists too. Who is entitled to argue their point of view with high confidence? The answer is no one.

[White Crane Feather]

I don't think a poster's motives are relevant. The point they are making should be answered, not their motive. Doing so seems a tactic to undermine the poster and distract from the question asked.

I disagree. I think it's prudent to engage in the real conversation being had not pandering to manipulation.

[+and-then]

The bible contradicts itself. Over the centuries it has been altered and manipulated to suit each religious sects views.

First there was the Counsel Of Nicea which organized the first Canon. Then centuries later Martin Luther left the

Catholic church and formed the Lutherans and removed books from the Catholic bible and basically created their

own Canon. Then Henry the 8th left the Catholic church and started the Church Of England. Then you have the

Mormons who created their own bible called The Book Of The Mormon. I can see why it's hard to put faith in a

doctrine when it has been changed so many times over the course of the centuries. The only thing that make sense

to me in the bible (and I've said this in other threads) is The 10 Commandments. Don't kill, Don't steal. Don't Cheat,

Honor your Parents (etc)

When a comparison was made between the text on the dead sea scrolls and the Torah of modernity there were almost NO errors. And the tiny few that were made were not contextual.

[ellapenella]

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. John 3:18

Now the real question is this, Duelix, why would one refuse to believe if this is all they must do to avoid judgement? And the answer is usually that human nature tells us we are okay as we are and that NO ONE and nothing has a right to tell us how to live. When a person looks at things in this light the choice should become pretty clear. The gospel says nothing about becoming perfect. It just says to believe and to ask forgiveness. If a person feels they've done nothing to be forgiven for then why worry?

I think some people hate what Christ represents because they don't want to acknowledge their own sick twisted ways as wrong From the least to the worst. No one's perfect but at least most people acknowledge that to be Christ like is to actually care and have compassion. I often wonder at times, what exactly is going on in people's minds whenever i come across someone slamming Jesus .Even if you don't believe he actually lived, the entire concept of Christ is wonderful.

[+HerNibs]

I think some people hate what Christ represents because they don't want to acknowledge their own sick twisted ways as wrong From the least to the worst. No one's perfect but at least most people acknowledge that to be Christ like is to actually care and have compassion. I often wonder at times, what exactly is going on in people's minds whenever i come across someone slamming Jesus .Even if you don't believe he actually lived, the entire concept of Christ is wonderful.

Christ or Christianity? Really two different things.

What Jesus said and did (supposedly) is not the same as Christianity.

Nibs

[Doug1029]

When a comparison was made between the text on the dead sea scrolls and the Torah of modernity there were almost NO errors. And the tiny few that were made were not contextual.

I don't know about the Torah, but I compared the Great Scroll of Isaiah with the modern book of Isaiah, a la' King James. Actually, pretty close. Modern King James has added a couple verses not present in the Great Scroll and there are numerous one and two-word differences, but all-in-all the agreement is impressive.

Doug

[XenoFish]

Some of us dislike the mythology based around an individual that might or might not have existed. Just because you don't believe in Jesus doesn't make you blind to your own faults. You can be kind, considerate, and compassionate without Christ. You can be down right evil with or without him if you so choose. Just because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't make them better than non believers! That is the very thought that ruins people. That of superiority. You can do everything Jesus did (except the magic tricks) without even believing in him.

Edited July 8, 2014 by XenoFish

[Doug1029]

I think some people hate what Christ represents because they don't want to acknowledge their own sick twisted ways as wrong From the least to the worst. No one's perfect but at least most people acknowledge that to be Christ like is to actually care and have compassion. I often wonder at times, what exactly is going on in people's minds whenever i come across someone slamming Jesus .Even if you don't believe he actually lived, the entire concept of Christ is wonderful.

That shoe fits equally well on the other foot. But either way, "hate" is not the right word. Can you imagine how ridiculous that statement sounds to someone who doesn't believe Jesus ever existed? How can you hate something that never existed?

I think the idea that people "hate" Christianity/Christ is mostly a Christian strawman - something they created so they could beat it up and feel picked on. Some folks have been abused in the name of Christ - in their case, I can understand why they don't like Christians - threats of hell and all that. Hate takes a lot of effort, a great investment in the thing you hate. Christianity simply isn't worth the trouble.

Doug

[ellapenella]

Christ or Christianity? Really two different things.

What Jesus said and did (supposedly) is not the same as Christianity.

Nibs

Answer me this, what is it to be a Christian? Like what is Christianity based on, or Whom is it based on? What is Christ a representation of ? What then is it to be Christian ? For me , in my very own understanding of Christ and Christianity it's all about what Jesus represented which makes Christ and Christianity one in the same purpose and meaning.