float mocking Obama draws accusations of...

[Michelle]

Agreed. Do you agree that when offense has been inadvertently given, it should not be casually dismissed as if unimportant?

It depends on the arena and the perceived offense.

Ah, but would it be photoshopped?

Edited July 9, 2014 by Michelle

[Space Commander Travis]

Personally, I would think it fairly obvious that black people would consider it insulting for the first presidential library commissioned by a black president to be compared to an outhouse.

So he shouldn't be judged on his accomplishments and legacy, or special allowances should be made on account of his ancestry?

[Duelix]

I am so sick of the white supremacist nonsense spewed by the radical right and gun owners. The man is President and some people can't just wrap it around their tiny 2 cell moonshine damaged brain that a BLACK MAN is in the white house.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Duelix

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Forgive me for asking what's obviously a cultural question, but why is watermelon associated with racism?

[Space Commander Travis]

Ah, here were are. The watermelon stereotype is a racist stereotype of African Americans that states that African Americans have an unusual appetite for watermelons. This stereotype has remained prevalent into the 21st century.^[1]

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watermelon_stereotype}

no, I never knew that either.

[BiffSplitkins]

Flames after Midnight

Like I said, I doubt it was related to this, however I do see how black people could make that connection.

I am completely failing to see any connection between the Flames after Midnight article and the outhouse float, aside from the one common word between the two; Outhouse.

Please explain your statement that I have bolded. Do black people think different than I?

The only reason the outhouse float is deemed racist is because 'someone' said it was. Sorry, that's not good enough for me. I could say the cup of coffee I am drinking right now is racist because I didn't use creamer in it this morning, does that make my coffee racist just because I said so?

[aquatus1]

Makes as much sense as an outhouse, I suppose.

[aquatus1]

So he shouldn't be judged on his accomplishments and legacy, or special allowances should be made on account of his ancestry?

He who? The library?

[Space Commander Travis]

He who? The library?

No, the president, as i would have thought was fairly obvious.

[aquatus1]

I am completely failing to see any connection between the Flames after Midnight article and the outhouse float, aside from the one common word between the two; Outhouse.

Please explain your statement that I have bolded. Do black people think different than I?

Back when I was going to college, the school had a tradition. Prior to the final big football game of the season, the student body would build a giant bonfire. And when I say giant, I am talking about a 5 story monster. It was an old, old, tradition, and the few voices raised in protest at the wisdom of allowing college students to do this were drowned out by the slowly building football fervor.

Unfortunately, there was a tragedy. That year, the odds finally turned against the school, and the 50 foot high pile of wood, with dozens of students all over it working hard on the last push to finish it before burning it down the next evening, collapsed.

12 students lost their lives, and several others were seriously injured. I personally knew one of the ladies who died in the collapse; I was the one who volunteered to finish up her architecture project so she could go play on the bonfire that evening. As irrational as it is, I still feel the responsibility for it. The stupidity, emphasized in hindsight, shamed the entire school, and the loss of our students was felt deeply. The image of the collapsed bonfire pile leaning over at a ridiculous angle, defying gravity in exactly the wrong direction, made it into news channels around the world.

Up until that day, our school had a legend of the 12th Man, a tale of a loyal alumni who came to watch a game and re-joined when one of the players was injured (It's more involved, but I'm afraid I never cared much for sports or the stories they generate). As a reminder of that loyalty, all the football players always wore a number "12" on their sleeves. That year, and ever since, that number "12" has signified something else entirely.

The football game, postponed for three weeks, came around again. The students re-grouped and re-affirmed, and once more flooded the stadium, taking that first step back to normality. Almost everything went perfectly, from the memorial TAPs played for the Corp of Cadet victims and the missing man formation donated by the congressman. There was only one incident that marred the celebration.

Some students from the visiting school thought it would be a clever idea to reprint the picture of the collapsed bonfire on a T-shirt, and caption it "What's the matter? Can't keep it up?" They set up a table with about a thousand shirts in boxes ready to sell.

The student body would have taken it badly. Indeed, when the story was reported the following day, there was something of a minor rally demanding action. Fortunately, the ones responsible for the t-shirts had come late and had set up in expectation of the half-time and post game sales; the moment the people not in the stadium watching the game spotted the T-shirts, they promptly reported them and the visiting students were escorted out by the police, assisted by school staff, who had their hands full with the local students who had witnessed this and wanted retribution.

Was there a connection between a tragedy that ended with the death of 12 of our students, and a sexual innuendo considered common "trash-talk" at a football game? Not really. Did the visiting students intentionally mock the very real and very recent pain the entire school felt? Doubt it. Did they even know how deeply the school was affected? I would like to think they did not. There is a limit to the stupidity allowance one can give to the young. Intentionally doing something like this would blast that allowance out of the water.

And yet, the pain was there. The insult was felt. It re-opened still freshly scarred wounds, it shocked those who heard about, and it generated some very real anger. Intent or not, damage was done.

Fortunately, the visiting school did not attempt to dismiss or minimize the incident. They could indeed see the connection we made between the school and our tragedy, even if they themselves had not been involved in it. It didn't have anything to do with them "thinking differently". They simply understood that sometimes, people screw up, just like these kids did. And when that happens, even if you had nothing to do with it, even if the reason behind the anger has absolutely nothing to do with you, the best option for peace is to simply acknowledge that a mistake was made, and understand that not everyone who feels insulted does so because of politics, but rather than they can feel insulted on a personal level, they can feel irrational anger at the crass insensitivity on display.

The mindset that because you don't find something insulting, therefore it is not insulting and anyone claiming it is should be dismissed, is a childish protective mechanism. It is an attempt to distance oneself from something they would never do intentionally, because they feel that they are being accused of precisely that. The truth is however, that one can deliver heavy insults, racial insult, without knowledge (we in Marketing have dozens of stories). Trying to rationalize why it is insulting is an exercise in futility; people don't get angry or take insult out of rational deduction.

Whether you agree that there should be an apology forthcoming, or not, and whether you agree that an insult was even made, or not, is one thing. But to claim that you don't see any connection at all, between the events at Kirven, Texas, where black people were murdered and left in outhouse, and an outhouse with the first black president's name on it, well, that's more a reflection on you than anything else.

Do black people think differently from you? No, they don't. There are just as many of them who are mystified by things other races consider insulting. The problem here isn't race. It's manners. And basic manners dictate that when an insult has been made, intentionally or otherwise, knowingly or not, one apologizes for it.

[Bendy Demon]

People shouldn't have to walk on eggshells always worried they might offend someone else. It makes a tense situation for everyone.

Unfortunately these days this is what we all have to do. People have become so hyper sensitive and thin skinned that even a sigh or a roll of the eyes at work can get you suspended or fired.

A color of a shirt or a scrap of food, for example, can so mortally offend someone that they can get you fired for it.

[aquatus1]

No, the president, as i would have thought was fairly obvious.

How does that statement tie into the post you quoted?

Personally, I would think it fairly obvious that black people would consider it insulting for the first presidential library commissioned by a black president to be compared to an outhouse.

What does judging the president based on accomplishments and legacy of the president have to do with the above? What special allowances are being applied, or requested?

I'm talking about a library. The only role the president has is to put his name on it.

[aquatus1]

Unfortunately these days this is what we all have to do. People have become so hyper sensitive and thin skinned that even a sigh or a roll of the eyes at work can get you suspended or fired.

A color of a shirt or a scrap of food, for example, can so mortally offend someone that they can get you fired for it.

Hah! You think this is bad? You should have been around for the 90's!

I remember my first job at a local magazine. We had a list of words that we were not permitted to use.

Included were: Watermelon, fried chicken, buckwheat, burrito, wetback, negro, negress, handicapped, cracker, gringo.

It's actually a lot more tolerant now than it was back in the 80's/90's. People don't take anywhere near as much offense as they used to, and you don't have anywhere near the amount of cause-heads and celebrity cause du jour, as you once did. Back in high school, everyone had to have a stance on something. I actually made out like a bandit playing on my South American Indian heritage. I work in marketing, so I have to keep a careful eye on the current trends in regards to perception, but even outside of my job, I find there is little need to walk on eggshells. It is simply a matter of common sense (i.e. don't mix celebrations with political opinions) and basic manners (if you accidentally insulted someone,and an apology costs you nothing, go ahead and apologize).

[Bendy Demon]

Hah! You think this is bad? You should have been around for the 90's!

I remember my first job at a local magazine. We had a list of words that we were not permitted to use.

Included were: Watermelon, fried chicken, buckwheat, burrito, wetback, negro, negress, handicapped, cracker, gringo.

Actually the list has changed and has grown exponentially these days. People can get insulted over anything.

Several years ago a senator or someone was in a meeting and used the word "niggardly" which meant "miserly" or "stingy". He got flack over it because no one knew what it meant and thought he was being racist and even when he explained what it meant they still blubbered because of how it sounded so after being given flack endlessly, he just quit.

It gets so odd nowdays.

I find there is little need to walk on eggshells. It is simply a matter of common sense (i.e. don't mix celebrations with political opinions) and basic manners (if you accidentally insulted someone,and an apology costs you nothing, go ahead and apologize).

Apologizing is great if there is a real need for it but when you are forced to apologize for every little thing then it gets tiring and stupefying.

[aquatus1]

Actually the list has changed and has grown exponentially these days. People can get insulted over anything. Several years ago a senator or someone was in a meeting and used the word "niggardly" which meant "miserly" or "stingy". He got flack over it because no one knew what it meant and thought he was being racist and even when he explained what it meant they still blubbered because of how it sounded so after being given flack endlessly, he just quit.

I always thought there was something odd about that. No senator would resign over something that silly, and yet, that is the reason this one gave. It never sounded right to me.

Apologizing is great if there is a real need for it but when you are forced to apologize for every little thing then it gets tiring and stupefying.

That's the beauty of it. If you aren't defensive and you apologize for honest mistakes, people stop giving you the stink-eye and suspecting you of insults over every little thing. If you don't like someone, everything they say feels like an insult. If the person (or company), doesn't generate a reputation of never admitting they are wrong, they become more personable, and people don't take as much umbrage as they would against a more faceless corporation.

[Rafterman]

I always thought there was something odd about that. No senator would resign over something that silly, and yet, that is the reason this one gave. It never sounded right to me.

It wasn't a Senator, it was an aide to the then mayor of Washington DC, Anthony Williams. The aide initially resigned over it but was then reinstated due to support from both the gay community and the NAACP.

The whole incident always left me wondering if all of the parties involved had not been Democrats, would it have turned out differently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22

David Howard incident[edit]

On January 15, 1999, David Howard, a white aide to Anthony A. Williams, the black mayor of Washington, D.C., used "niggardly" in reference to a budget.^[2] This apparently upset one of his black colleagues (identified by Howard as Marshall Brown), who misinterpreted it as a racial slur and lodged a complaint. As a result, on January 25 Howard tendered his resignation, and Williams accepted it.^[3] However, after pressure from the gay community (of which Howard was a member) an internal review into the matter was brought about, and the mayor offered Howard the chance to return to his position as Office of the Public Advocate on February 4. Howard refused but accepted another position with the mayor instead, insisting that he did not feel victimized by the incident. On the contrary, Howard felt that he had learned from the situation. "I used to think it would be great if we could all be colorblind. That's naïve, especially for a white person, because a white person can afford to be colorblind. They don't have to think about race every day. An African American does."^[3]

It had been speculated that this incident inspired Philip Roth's novel The Human Stain,^[4] though Roth has stated his source was an incident in the career of Melvin Tumin.^[5]

Public response[edit]

The Howard incident led to a national debate in the U.S., in the context of racial sensitivity and political correctness, on whether use of niggardly should be avoided. Some observers noted, however, that the "national debate" was made up almost entirely of commentators defending use of the word. As James Poniewozik wrote inSalon, the controversy was "an issue that opinion-makers right, left and center could universally agree on." He wrote that "the defenders of the dictionary" were "legion, and still queued up six abreast."^[6] Julian Bond, then chairman of the NAACP, deplored the offense that had been taken at Howard's use of the word. "You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding", he said. "David Howard should not have quit. Mayor Williams should bring him back—and order dictionaries issued to all staff who need them."^[7]

Bond also said, "Seems to me the mayor has been niggardly in his judgment on the issue" and that as a nation the US has a "hair-trigger sensibility" on race that can be tripped by both real and false grievances.^[8]

[danielost]

It's not the outhouse that's racist. The disparagement and attempts to degrade & humiliate another person is unacceptable no matter the race, skin color, political affiliation, age, gender, or sexual orientation.

It's not the outhouse that's racist. The disparagement and attempts to degrade & humiliate another person is unacceptable no matter the race, skin color, political affiliation, age, gender, or sexual orientation.

Every president has had this done to them. The difference this time is Obama is black.

[Rafterman]

Every president has had this done to them. The difference this time is Obama is black.

And frankly, the stuff done today pales in comparison to what was done throughout history.

http://www.sj-r.com/article/20110904/News/309049955

[Beany]

Racism has always been and will always be an issue for a person of color, no matter they job, education, or anything else. Does anyone actually think racism has disappeared, that it's not a factor? It may or may not be a driving force behind this incident, but it's a factor for some. It's hard to identify, isn't it? Because no one in their right mind is going to voice it out loud, but will instead cloak it in language or ideas that ARE acceptable.

[Use your brain]

Can't we just have crappy people? Why does everything have to be racist, new accusation from me : Whoever said that this was racist, is a racist. If you want to get racist, look at who causes 90% of violent crimes in America, better not say the results because then you would be racist. Meanwhile in Africa 50m people are working in diamond mines against their will, but yea we are some racist backwoods people for making a float

Can I tap out from humanity?

[CrimsonKing]

It just always amazes me when it is convenient to help brush away criticism from obama he is african american is why people dislike him because they are racist.

Need a feel good story about how he is going to unite this country like none before him....Then he becomes half caucasian again haha.

Political correctness/politics at its best!

[aztek]

and that is why i think prez should only be heterosexual white male, cuz if you dissagree with black, you are raciast, dissagree with woman, your are sexist, dissagre with gay, you are homofobic...

[Rafterman]

Racism has always been and will always be an issue for a person of color, no matter they job, education, or anything else. Does anyone actually think racism has disappeared, that it's not a factor? It may or may not be a driving force behind this incident, but it's a factor for some. It's hard to identify, isn't it? Because no one in their right mind is going to voice it out loud, but will instead cloak it in language or ideas that ARE acceptable.

Of course racism is still with us. It always has been and always will be. And, frankly, even when race isn't a factor we humans will just find another way to try and differentiate and elevate ourselves over others. It's human nature.

But on the flip side, trying to deflect any and all criticism as simply being racist/sexist/whateverist is not only intellectually dishonest, but in a way is just as racist/sexist/whateverist.

[Space Commander Travis]

How does that statement tie into the post you quoted?

What does judging the president based on accomplishments and legacy of the president have to do with the above? What special allowances are being applied, or requested?

I'm talking about a library. The only role the president has is to put his name on it.

I'm talking about these Memorial Libraries that are monuments to the achievements of his presidency, such as for example the

Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation and Library

, and that the Barack Obama Foundation and Library could probably fit into an Outhouse, which I think was the point of the satire here. The point of the satire seems fairly obvious to me really.

[rashore]

Just for interest... Here's an NPR article about the Obama Library that is said to be coming... http://www.npr.org/2014/07/07/328555220/a-presidential-contest-for-obamas-library