What does God look like?

[Jack_of_Blades]

My question there would be: what is the evolutionary advantage of perception of religious phenomena?

To help strengthen and develop cultural and community ties so that we could combine efforts to a common goal and stop

being hunter-gatherers.

It makes me wonder: can you see past the limestone and water to appreciate the beauty of the cavern?

It's hard to understand for a religious person, but beauty does not require a deity.

There's an answer for that, but it would take this thread in a totally different direction. Besides, from our perspective, at one point in time everyone in the world knew about God, and subsequently most rejected Him.

Certainly don't want to derail, but do you mean everyone at one point knew about the Christian god? Because in no way do our findings in archaeology

support that.

Okay, here it goes...I think I've told about this before. It remains strong in my memory because it was one of the first such experiences that I had after becoming a Christian. I was praying and meditating one evening, and I thought of my friend Jim who was experiencing some difficulty in his life. A scripture passage came into my mind; it was unrelated to what I was reading at that moment. I realized that the scripture might help him, so I prayed that God would reveal it to him. I saw Jim at church that weekend, and as we talked, we realized that God did give him that passage at about the time I was praying for him.

I could see that happening as coincidence one time. Maybe two, three or four times. But 10 times? 50 times? At some point it moves beyond coincidence, and some other influence must be considered.

Thank you for sharing. I (in no way) want to discredit your personal experience, but objectively it simply sounds like two people who are religious (and would be reading the

bible on a daily basis any way) stumbling across the same passage.

For example I have quite a few friends that are deeply into The Song of Fire and Ice and we often end up texting each other about reading the same contextual clue

or underlying message at the same time. Considering the bible has around 800,000 words and The Song of Fire and Ice has over 1,700,000, odds would imply

(at least pertaining to my friends) that R'llor is more likely a deity and the God Abraham knew.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Jack_of_Blades

[J. K.]

To help strengthen and develop cultural and community ties so that we could combine efforts to a common goal and stop

being hunter-gatherers.

If religion helps a common goal, why are secularists so determined to stomp it out?

It's hard to understand for a religious person, but beauty does not require a deity.

(Aside: that's weird. I don't see this comment in your reply above)

I don't mean to imply that beauty requires a deity. I was just wondering if scientists can look beyond numbers and measurements. It seems to me that science wouldn't make very many advances if no one asks, "What if?"

Certainly don't want to derail, but do you mean everyone at one point knew about the Christian god? Because in no way do our findings in archaeology

support that.

That's because archaeologists don't think there was a time when only eight people were alive. In a big boat. With lots of animals.

Thank you for sharing. I (in no way) want to discredit your personal experience, but objectively it simply sounds like two people who are religious (and would be reading the

bible on a daily basis any way) stumbling across the same passage.

For example I quite a few friends that are deeply into The Song of Fire and Ice and we often end up texting each other about reading the same contextual clue

or underlying message at the same time. Considering the bible has around 800,000 words and The Song of Fire and Ice has over 1,700,000, odds would imply

(at least pertaining to my friends) that R'llor is more likely a deity and the God Abraham knew.

And as I said, I do see coincidence in the world around us, but at a certain point, experience moves beyond coincidence into manipulation.

[+Liquid Gardens]

I would have difficulty believing that random chance and coincidence would explain the shared experience that thousands of people are having. Keep in mind that this "stimulus" happens many times during a lifetime; it's not a one-off occurred.

Would you say the same for 'deja-vu'? It's a shared experience and has happened many times in my lifetime. The issue I don't think is the experience, it's the interpretation of it. If you believe the experiences that you consider spiritual are indicative of some spiritual/religious reality, then using the same train of reasoning isn't deja-vu evidence of precognition/parallel universes/telepathy?

Okay, here it goes...I think I've told about this before. It remains strong in my memory because it was one of the first such experiences that I had after becoming a Christian. I was praying and meditating one evening, and I thought of my friend Jim who was experiencing some difficulty in his life. A scripture passage came into my mind; it was unrelated to what I was reading at that moment. I realized that the scripture might help him, so I prayed that God would reveal it to him. I saw Jim at church that weekend, and as we talked, we realized that God did give him that passage at about the time I was praying for him.

I could see that happening as coincidence one time. Maybe two, three or four times. But 10 times? 50 times? At some point it moves beyond coincidence, and some other influence must be considered.

I guess first off I would wonder if Jim has a narrow enough problem that the set of verses in scripture that would pertain to his situation would be fairly low, and since you are both Christian you would both likely look to the Bible for guidance and perspective, so the chances of you picking the same applicable verse isn't that improbable. Have you also kept track of the number of times that you prayed that God would reveal applicable scripture to someone and it appeared to have failed?

I would argue that this occurring 100 times is still a lesser probability then someone hitting the average large lottery just once; should those lottery winners suspect that something supernatural has also occurred because of that even greater amazing coincidence? Even if the probability of what you are describing here is astronomical, isn't telepathy another explanation? I don't say that to belittle your beliefs, I mean it seriously; if this is the evidence we have to go on, then telepathy would seem to be a better, more parsimonious explanation in that we don't necessarily need to posit a God, a soul, an external reality for prayer, etc.

I don't doubt your experiences nor the power and positive impact that they can have in your life and those of other believers, I just don't understand the link to the very specific interpretation being derived from it.

[Jack_of_Blades]

If religion helps a common goal, why are secularists so determined to stomp it out?

One could argue that it's achieved it's goal and isn't needed any longer. Are we talking of a specific group in-particular?

Most people I know without a religious affiliation don't care what someone believes. It's a freedom. As long as it isn't forced on anyone else through laws and

no one is getting hurt, by all means enjoy it.

(Aside: that's weird. I don't see this comment in your reply above)

I don't mean to imply that beauty requires a deity. I was just wondering if scientists can look beyond numbers and measurements. It seems to me that science wouldn't make very many advances if no one asks, "What if?"

I ended up editing my post to include this quote shortly after I posted, so maybe you started yours before I edited it?

Sure there are scientists that boil everything down to numbers and statistics, but the primary purpose of science is to ask "What if?".

And hypothesis' are created, experiments are run and we see how it can be applied or if there is anything to learn for it.

That's because archaeologists don't think there was a time when only eight people were alive. In a big boat. With lots of animals.

Because there isn't evidence for it and is a logistical and statistical impossibility.

And as I said, I do see coincidence in the world around us, but at a certain point, experience moves beyond coincidence into manipulation.

I just don't see it like that. Coincidences are coincidences. They don't add up or multiply, they just are. I think it's worth noting that there are times I wish

I could believe in a religion. Simply because of the way it helps people through tough periods and times of strife. It must be very comforting to believe that

there's a purpose behind it.

[J. K.]

Would you say the same for 'deja-vu'? It's a shared experience and has happened many times in my lifetime. The issue I don't think is the experience, it's the interpretation of it. If you believe the experiences that you consider spiritual are indicative of some spiritual/religious reality, then using the same train of reasoning isn't deja-vu evidence of precognition/parallel universes/telepathy?

Oh, sure, I've experienced déjà vu plenty of times. I have my own theory for its origin, involving a misfiring of neurons. Hmm, where have I heard a brain stimulus substituted for a metaphysical experience?

I guess first off I would wonder if Jim has a narrow enough problem that the set of verses in scripture that would pertain to his situation would be fairly low, and since you are both Christian you would both likely look to the Bible for guidance and perspective, so the chances of you picking the same applicable verse isn't that improbable. Have you also kept track of the number of times that you prayed that God would reveal applicable scripture to someone and it appeared to have failed?

No, that 's not something I keep track of. As for it failing, that can happen if the other person isn't looking for an answer, thereby being closed to God's guidance.

I would argue that this occurring 100 times is still a lesser probability then someone hitting the average large lottery just once; should those lottery winners suspect that something supernatural has also occurred because of that even greater amazing coincidence? Even if the probability of what you are describing here is astronomical, isn't telepathy another explanation? I don't say that to belittle your beliefs, I mean it seriously; if this is the evidence we have to go on, then telepathy would seem to be a better, more parsimonious explanation in that we don't necessarily need to posit a God, a soul, an external reality for prayer, etc.

Certainly, there is an overlap between certain religious phenomena and psychic abilities. If it weren't for other factors that are involved, I would consider psychic power to be a possibility. Unfortunately, I've not learned to instigate the experiences myself, otherwise I would try for that lottery ticket.

I don't doubt your experiences nor the power and positive impact that they can have in your life and those of other believers, I just don't understand the link to the very specific interpretation being derived from it.

It's all a matter of context. We fit our experiences into our own knowledge base.

[J. K.]

One could argue that it's achieved it's goal and isn't needed any longer. Are we talking of a specific group in-particular?

Most people I know without a religious affiliation don't care what someone believes. It's a freedom. As long as it isn't forced on anyone else through laws and

no one is getting hurt, by all means enjoy it.

Well, there are a few people here who are against any religious thought, some rabidly so.

I ended up editing my post to include this quote shortly after I posted, so maybe you started yours before I edited it?

Sure there are scientists that boil everything down to numbers and statistics, but the primary purpose of science is to ask "What if?".

And hypothesis' are created, experiments are run and we see how it can be applied or if there is anything to learn for it.

Which is part of the problem that religion poses for science in that God doesn't operate on command for experimental purposes.

Because there isn't evidence for it and is a logistical and statistical impossibility.

I did say that archaeologists, and the world at large, don't accept that idea.

I just don't see it like that. Coincidences are coincidences. They don't add up or multiply, they just are. I think it's worth noting that there are times I wish

I could believe in a religion. Simply because of the way it helps people through tough periods and times of strife. It must be very comforting to believe that

there's a purpose behind it.

Yes, it is comforting. Scripture calls it "the peace that passes understanding."

[Rlyeh]

That's because archaeologists don't think there was a time when only eight people were alive. In a big boat. With lots of animals.

Most geologists don't either. You can't blame people for something that didn't happen.

[Alan McDougall]

The problem being that "subjective evidence" is highly susceptible to error and misperception.

Jeanne you are treating this topic like it was a joke, when in fact, it is the most serious most profound debate that you have ever had or will ever have in the future and you final decision will determine you ultimate eternal destiny.!!

​How do you think God would reveal himself to you, by taking you to the top of a mountain and showing himself to you in a thunderous voice?

No Jeanne he might be using this internet media to get through to you, in fact I am positive God is doing just that because you are special in some way or the other and he wants to heal your hurt if you would only allow him back into your heart.

It is not God that disillusioned you in the past it was hypocrites who claimed to be doing his will, but in reality they were doing the exact opposite in fact living a lie?

This topic which started out as what does God look like? Has altered its direction into "Does God Exist?"

Have no problem with that it is after one of the most fundamental questions in all of human history.

Maybe the most fundamental question of all, is "Why is there Something and Not Nothing?

By far the best answer is because there exists an uncaused-cause, a prime-mover, without beginning or ending, infinite, eternal all powerful of infinite intellect. The only thing that fits those attributives is Almighty God!

To say this great ever existing entity does not exist and one can prove its non-existence is the height of nonsense full stop.

One of the more interesting aspects of argument between theists and atheists is the habit of some to assume that the existence of a possible naturalistic explanation decisively rebuts any assertion of a supernatural cause, regardless of the improbability of the naturalistic explanation (given the current state of scientific thought).

So stories of miraculous healing are dismissed as doctor’s errors or the placebo effect or, simply, wishful thinking. Other kinds of claimed of encounters with God are dismissed as “coincidence” or even madness (and, to be clear, coincidences do exist, and some people are insane). But the ability to articulate a possible alternative explanation for events does not negate all other alternative explanations.

Ultimately, truth is spiritually discerned. We can talk evidence all day long, but until the Holy Spirit moves in the heart of man, that heart will remain dead. But hearts remain dead in part through the lies that we tell ourselves, and one of the greatest lies is this: There is “no evidence” that God exists.

God is truth? Without Him you live in darkness!

If God were to separate His presence from you, you would immediately feel a sense of such deep profound desolation, despair, unimaginable loneliness, utter and complete hopelessness and the futility of any reason to consider continuing with what had become an unbearable life and existence.

Think of Judas, he felt that after betraying the Master. Jesus felt it when God the Father left him for a brief moment on the Cross of Calvary?

Don't get to the point, where your hatred of God has led him to separate Himself from you, and have to call out , "My God My God why have you forsaken me" My God My God why have you forsaken me" My God My God why have you forsaken me" My God My God why have you forsaken me" My God My God why have you forsaken me"

God is closer than a friend , but just like the most close and loving friend if you keep on rejecting him, over and over and over again, he will withdraw his life-giving presence, light and love from you and you WILL FEEL the exact results of your hatred to him as I have described to you above.

[Jack_of_Blades]

Well, there are a few people here who are against any religious thought, some rabidly so.

Just as there are those that are rabidly for various religions and against any other ideology. That's just people. People

hate what they don't agree with.

Which is part of the problem that religion poses for science in that God doesn't operate on command for experimental purposes.

Fair enough. If a god exists the whole of reality bends to it's will. But some people just can't believe in things that can't be scientifically proven.

Jeanne you are treating this topic like it was a joke, when in fact, it is the most serious most profound debate that you have ever had or will ever have in the future and you final decision will determine you ultimate eternal destiny.!!

They were giving it the exact amount of gravity that this topic requires. Particularly considering they don't believe.

It is not God that disillusioned you in the past it was hypocrites who claimed to be doing his will, but in reality they were doing the exact opposite in fact living a lie?

Or there is simply zero substantial evidence for a higher power so why believe in what can't be known by a mortal?

This topic which started out as what does God look like? Has altered its direction into "Does God Exist?"

This is actually completely right. This topic has changed quite a bit.

By far the best answer is because there exists an uncaused-cause, a prime-mover, without beginning or ending, infinite, eternal all powerful of infinite intellect. The only thing that fits those attributives is Almighty God!

To say this great ever existing entity does not exist and one can prove its non-existence is the height of nonsense full stop.

Not the "best answer", just the one you've found that fits you. But I agree no one can prove a god(s) does or doesn't exist.

Don't get to the point, where your hatred of God has led him to separate Himself from you, and have to call out , "My God My God why have you forsaken me" My God My God why have you forsaken me" My God My God why have you forsaken me" My God My God why have you forsaken me" My God My God why have you forsaken me"

God is closer than a friend , but just like the most close and loving friend if you keep on rejecting him, over and over and over again, he will withdraw his life-giving presence, light and love from you and you WILL FEEL the exact results of your hatred to him as I have described to you above.

There is no hatred. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Someone can't hate what they believe doesn't exist. Just like someone who doesn't

believe in god would never call out cursing him. There's no point to them. It's like yelling at a tree to them.

So if someone continually rejects god (which hasn't made it's presence known) he up and takes his cosmic ball home? That sounds far less like an almighty

creator and much more like a jealous girlfriend.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Jack_of_Blades

[J. K.]

Fair enough. If a god exists the whole of reality bends to it's will. But some people just can't believe in things that can't be scientifically proven.

That is true and I understand. You touched on something that's kind of an urban legend for secularists. It is true that, at some point in the future, He will impose His will upon the universe. Until then, He allows man to have free will and make his own decisions.

[+DieChecker]

Okay, here it goes...I think I've told about this before. It remains strong in my memory because it was one of the first such experiences that I had after becoming a Christian. I was praying and meditating one evening, and I thought of my friend Jim who was experiencing some difficulty in his life. A scripture passage came into my mind; it was unrelated to what I was reading at that moment. I realized that the scripture might help him, so I prayed that God would reveal it to him. I saw Jim at church that weekend, and as we talked, we realized that God did give him that passage at about the time I was praying for him.

I could see that happening as coincidence one time. Maybe two, three or four times. But 10 times? 50 times? At some point it moves beyond coincidence, and some other influence must be considered.

I've used that argument before and the response is always... Random chance. If it is possibly random chance, even if the odds are one in a quadrillion, then to an atheist, that is what it MUST have been. Because that is the only answer they CAN accept.

[+Paranoid Android]

I did say that archaeologists, and the world at large, don't accept that idea.

Many Christians (myself included) don't accept this idea either.

[Jeanne dArc]

Jeanne you are treating this topic like it was a joke, when in fact, it is the most serious most profound debate that you have ever had or will ever have in the future and you final decision will determine you ultimate eternal destiny.!!

Haha, I'm treating it like a joke because it's genuinely humorous to me that you treat it so seriously Because, again, religion is nonsense to me. And you have done a superbly poor job of giving evidence that it is not nonsense.

​How do you think God would reveal himself to you, by taking you to the top of a mountain and showing himself to you in a thunderous voice?

I'd be fine with him just showing himself and asking me out, rather than just stalking me. That's creepy.

No Jeanne he might be using this internet media to get through to you, in fact I am positive God is doing just that because you are special in some way or the other and he wants to heal your hurt if you would only allow him back into your heart.

Haha, then, as I said, he should just do it. If he's so desperate to get to me, he doesn't seem very smart: since he appears to have hidden himself so completely that I can't help but disbelieve in him.

It is not God that disillusioned you in the past it was hypocrites who claimed to be doing his will, but in reality they were doing the exact opposite in fact living a lie?

Nope, it was the character of God who disillusioned me I'd appreciate it if you didn't make broad assumptions about what I think, when I haven't explained it to you.

This topic which started out as what does God look like? Has altered its direction into "Does God Exist?"

Well, it's rather pointless asking what God looks like unless we establish that he exists, isn't it....

Have no problem with that it is after one of the most fundamental questions in all of human history.

Maybe the most fundamental question of all, is "Why is there Something and Not Nothing?

I wouldn't call that a terribly fundamental question. At least not to me.

By far the best answer is because there exists an uncaused-cause, a prime-mover, without beginning or ending, infinite, eternal all powerful of infinite intellect. The only thing that fits those attributives is Almighty God!

That is far from the best answer. If it was, don't you think more scientists would be latching onto it? Those attributes are logical impossibilities, and the existence of a being which somehow possessed them all simultaneously would require far more explanation than the universe's existence. So by turning to your god as an answer isn't in fact an answer: it's just a much, much larger question.

To say this great ever existing entity does not exist and one can prove its non-existence is the height of nonsense full stop.

I have never claimed that I could prove the non-existence of anything. The existence of a god is greatly improbable though, since all its described features are logically either improbable or impossible, and naturalistic explanations have been presented for virtually all of the alleged activities of gods.

One of the more interesting aspects of argument between theists and atheists is the habit of some to assume that the existence of a possible naturalistic explanation decisively rebuts any assertion of a supernatural cause, regardless of the improbability of the naturalistic explanation (given the current state of scientific thought).

Given there has never been an observation in science which required a supernatural explanation, a supernatural explanation is, by default, more improbable than any naturalistic explanation.

So stories of miraculous healing are dismissed as doctor’s errors or the placebo effect or, simply, wishful thinking. Other kinds of claimed of encounters with God are dismissed as “coincidence” or even madness (and, to be clear, coincidences do exist, and some people are insane). But the ability to articulate a possible alternative explanation for events does not negate all other alternative explanations.

Because all of those explanations have shown to be perfectly adequate. Faith healers have been studied and found to be frauds. Alleged encounters with divinities have been sufficiently explained by purely brain activity and magical thinking (and wishful thinking somewhat comes into that).

Edited October 22, 2014 by Jeanne dArc

[Jeanne dArc]

That is true and I understand. You touched on something that's kind of an urban legend for secularists. It is true that, at some point in the future, He will impose His will upon the universe. Until then, He allows man to have free will and make his own decisions.

And if that fails to happen?

Ultimately, truth is spiritually discerned. We can talk evidence all day long, but until the Holy Spirit moves in the heart of man, that heart will remain dead. But hearts remain dead in part through the lies that we tell ourselves, and one of the greatest lies is this: There is “no evidence” that God exists.

"Spirits" don't exist. The single best method, by far, that has ever been devised for determining what is closest to reality is science. All this talk of "hearts" and "spirits" is antiquated nonsense. People once believed that they could determine truth by reading tea leaves, or throwing bones on the floor and reading their configurations, or through astrology, or by examining the entrails of a chicken. None of those are even remotely effective for ascertaining truth. "Spiritual" discernment is no more effective: it's bunk. If you can have your "spirits" tell you what the mass of neutrinos is, or what the cure for cancer is, then maybe we'll talk. But until then, science's track record has plainly demonstrated its effectiveness: any other method has produced no such track record.

God is truth? Without Him you live in darkness!

Nope

If God were to separate His presence from you, you would immediately feel a sense of such deep profound desolation, despair, unimaginable loneliness, utter and complete hopelessness and the futility of any reason to consider continuing with what had become an unbearable life and existence.

Nope

Think of Judas, he felt that after betraying the Master. Jesus felt it when God the Father left him for a brief moment on the Cross of Calvary?

There is no evidence that either of those things ever happened. They're myths.

Don't get to the point, where your hatred of God has led him to separate Himself from you, and have to call out , "My God My God why have you forsaken me" My God My God why have you forsaken me" My God My God why have you forsaken me" My God My God why have you forsaken me" My God My God why have you forsaken me"

Given I have no hatred of God, and given I'm not holding my breath that any god will ever be proved to exist, it's quite impossible for me to reach that point

God is closer than a friend , but just like the most close and loving friend if you keep on rejecting him, over and over and over again, he will withdraw his life-giving presence, light and love from you and you WILL FEEL the exact results of your hatred to him as I have described to you above.

Again, no hatred. If he exists, and he cares so much, then he should show up and talk to me in person. You use terms like "reject", but in any relationship, "rejection" implies that he at least has asked me out: if he's real, all he's ever done is stalk me, so I can hardly "reject" him. He's simply never had to guts to ask me out in the first place, haha

Edited October 22, 2014 by Jeanne dArc

[Jeanne dArc]

I've used that argument before and the response is always... Random chance. If it is possibly random chance, even if the odds are one in a quadrillion, then to an atheist, that is what it MUST have been. Because that is the only answer they CAN accept.

I have never given you the answer "random chance". Natural processes are not equal to random chance.

[J. K.]

And if that fails to happen?

If it doesn't happen, then I'll die and disappear without being able to say I was wrong.

[SpiritWriter]

[Jeanne dArc]

If it doesn't happen, then I'll die and disappear without being able to say I was wrong.

Fair enough. But you were, in fact, wrong.

[+DieChecker]

I've used that argument before and the response is always... Random chance. If it is possibly random chance, even if the odds are one in a quadrillion, then to an atheist, that is what it MUST have been. Because that is the only answer they CAN accept.

I have never given you the answer "random chance". Natural processes are not equal to random chance.

Very well.... the usual response is... natural processes. If it could be a natural process, even if the odds are one in a quadrillion, then to an atheist, that is what it MUST have been. Because that is the only answer they CAN accept.

That one in a billion events happen at a one in a million, or one in a thousand, occurrence means nothing..... Just means that the one in a billion should be reset.

[Jeanne dArc]

Very well.... the usual response is... natural processes. If it could be a natural process, even if the odds are one in a quadrillion, then to an atheist, that is what it MUST have been. Because that is the only answer they CAN accept.

That one in a billion events happen at a one in a million, or one in a thousand, occurrence means nothing..... Just means that the one in a billion should be reset.

Nature is the only thing we have any evidence of. Ergo "probability" doesn't really come into it. It's almost infinitely improbable that the atomic configuration present in a speck of dust happened to arise: yet it did, because natural processes led to it. Life and processes like that are greatly more probable, given they operate under natural selection: and hence ceae to be wholly chance-based, and become probabilistic/deterministic. Again, the reason atheists don't accept supernatural explanations is because there is not a single reason why they should: since natural explanations have been quite sufficient to explain all observations.

[danielost]

some proofs of god.

1 water. water is made of hydrogen and water. we use those components for rocket fuel.

2 ice. is the only natural element that its solid form floats in its liquid form. true there are man made ones that will.

3 salt. chloride and potassium. chloride is a poison. potassium explodes on contact with water.

4 the 1989 earthquake in the bay area. this quake hit during rush hour. there should have been 100,000 cars on the freeways. there were around 100.

5. the salt lake tornado, again there would have been a large number of people on the streets and in the parking lot that was hit the hardest. but it hit a day before the convention hit.

6 another earthquake in pakistan. they found a man alive in rubble a week after he should have been dead.

[danielost]

Nature is the only thing we have any evidence of. Ergo "probability" doesn't really come into it. It's almost infinitely improbable that the atomic configuration present in a speck of dust happened to arise: yet it did, because natural processes led to it. Life and processes like that are greatly more probable, given they operate under natural selection: and hence ceae to be wholly chance-based, and become probabilistic/deterministic. Again, the reason atheists don't accept supernatural explanations is because there is not a single reason why they should: since natural explanations have been quite sufficient to explain all observations.

nature likes to keep things simple, life is too complicated for nature.

[Rlyeh]

some proofs of god.

1 water. water is made of hydrogen and water. we use those components for rocket fuel.

2 ice. is the only natural element that its solid form floats in its liquid form. true there are man made ones that will.

3 salt. chloride and potassium. chloride is a poison. potassium explodes on contact with water.

4 the 1989 earthquake in the bay area. this quake hit during rush hour. there should have been 100,000 cars on the freeways. there were around 100.

5. the salt lake tornado, again there would have been a large number of people on the streets and in the parking lot that was hit the hardest. but it hit a day before the convention hit.

6 another earthquake in pakistan. they found a man alive in rubble a week after he should have been dead.

How is ignorance proof of god? Nothing you've listed proves god.

nature likes to keep things simple, life is too complicated for nature.

While danielost likes to make things up. Edited October 22, 2014 by Rlyeh

[danielost]

How is ignorance proof of god? Nothing you've listed proves god.

While danielost likes to make things up.

as i said you have to be open to the proof or it means nothing to you.

everything i listed proves god. three miracles and three everyday proof. everytime you drink water or any liquid with water in it , your drinking rocket fuel.

tell me what of my six items did i make up.

looks like i remembered wrong. it was haiti, and it wasn't a week it was a month.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249577/Evan-Muncie-Haitian-man-buried-earthquake-rubble-FOUR-WEEKS-alive.html

this one is even better.

http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/china-miner-found-alive-after-17-years-underground/

Edited October 22, 2014 by danielost

[Rlyeh]

as i said you have to be open to the proof or it means nothing to you.

everything i listed proves god. three miracles and three everyday proof. everytime you drink water or any liquid with water in it , your drinking rocket fuel.

You've listed things you don't understand and declared "god did it". Sorry, water isn't rocket fuel.

Even if you did find a rocket that ran on water, this proves god how?

Edit: Your links have no relevance to proof of god.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Rlyeh