World War 3

[Erikl]

Asterix, regarding war between the US and the EU - notice that I said it could be possible only in the long run, not in the next decade or even 3 decades.

The US and the EU are too similiar and close in terms of values and culture to wage a war between eachother.

But even today we see strong anti-Americanism among many Europeans, and a disappointment of some Americans from the EU.

We also see an EU-Arab League alliance forming, and large Arab communities in the EU, which will affect EU's policies in the comming future.

Who knows what will happen in 40 or 50 years from now.

[Asterix]

I said it could be possible only in the long run, not in the next decade or even 3 decades.

But even today we see strong anti-Americanism among many Europeans, and a disappointment of some Americans from the EU.

We also see an EU-Arab League alliance forming, and large Arab communities in the EU, which will affect EU's policies in the comming future.

Who knows what will happen in 40 or 50 years from now.

368899[/snapback]

Well, in 40 or 50 years from now, of course who knows what will happen. It might be so that in 50 years the next superpower will be..hmm..say, Australia, because of the discovery of a rare mineral that solves the energy problem.

Thing is, we analyze how the situation is, based on what we know now.

As for EU-Arab league, I don't see any special relations between EU and Arabian countries, other than the ordinary, good relations that any country should have with others, when its aim is commerce and trade, therefore development.

Plus, it is bit vague to claim that EU's policy is affected/depended by Arabian states. In the same sense, USA's policy is affected by what? Mexican immigrants?

[wunarmdscissor]

As for EU-Arab league, I don't see any special relations between EU and Arabian countries, other than the ordinary, good relations that any country should have with others, when its aim is commerce and trade, therefore development.

Plus, it is bit vague to claim that EU's policy is affected/depended by Arabian states. In the same sense, USA's policy is affected by what? Mexican immigrants?

Oh you havent heard asterix , apparently erikl has inside information that the EU is going to become a vast muslim superstate lol.

we're all to busy hating israel to see it lol .

Aint that right erikl bud ;-)

[Frosty]

well I can predict anything, if stuff like that would happend in the stock market it would crash! That's why event prediction should be supported with information.

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so you are saying more than half of the post on this forum, most in the psychic and ufo related discusion, should need supported information. I was merely trying to state how people come to predictions. I could throw information in with it but it would definatly not be supported information, only conjecture.

My supported info, "I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it.

." - John Kerry

"I'll never give a veto to any country over our security."

then

"I'm an internationalist. I'd like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations. "

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force if necessary to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."

then

"I will never conduct a war or start a war because we want to; the United States of America should only go to war because we have to. And if you live by that guidance, you'll never have veterans throwing away their medals or standing up in protest. "

[zukie&jim]

i don't think there will be a WW3 .

if there is a war with china ? --where will the US get all these cheap shoes from ? wall-mart wouldn't ever let it happen !!!

if there is a war with the EU ? wouldn't the president and congress and the senate have to withdraw all the taxpayers $$$ they stashed in that swiss or other EU bank ?--

where would they hide their loot ??

war with russia ? some old cold war die-hards keep beating that same old war drum . i don't see russia as a threat anymore. it looks like the USA and russia could co-operate at least on WOT and economic stuff.

north korea--humm that is a tough one . if the wages in china are too high--maybe wallmart will move a factory there ??--LOL--imagine this--getting a cheap pair of shoes in a box --red/white and blue--with flags on it-- made in north-korea !!!--LOL

india and pakastain ?--?????---?????? and nukes ?? lets hope not.

i can't see a world conflict--but very dangerous regional conflicts --and several unexpected ones could crop up.

[Bex]

I said that i believe it is achievable.

It is achievable for anyone really if they are striving for that goal. Except, of course, Dubya, who is hell bent on policing the world and attacking anyone who does not conform to american supremacy.

Anyway, we know my views on all this stuff. My opnion on the topic, is that if WW3 is to happen, which i doubt anyway, it'll happen during the time of Bush. This was not a stab at americans, as i stated, only Bush.

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[zukie&jim]

crystal orb-- factories will be put on ships, the ships will sail to the cheapest labor markets on earth, bringing all the jobs on earth to that nation.

when the ships are ordered to lay off all the global workers and set sail to a cheeper undeveloped country.--thats when the "global-war" will start-- !!

or so says the suth-sayer !!

[Erikl]

Oh you havent heard asterix , apparently erikl has inside information that the EU is going to become a vast muslim superstate lol.

we're all to busy hating israel to see it lol .

Aint that right erikl bud ;-)

Wun, why are you being cynical?

When I speak of the EU, I don't mean the UK, although they are part of it.

First of all, both UK and US are part of the Anglo-Saxon sphere, which make them close to eachother (and that's also true for Canada and Australia's relations with the US).

On the other hand, I do see an inner circle in the EU which will be anti-American.

And you also can't tell what will happen in 50-40 years from now.

If someone would have told you how close France and Germany will be 50 year ago, you would have laughed at his face.

If you would have told an American some 30 years ago that in 15 years the USSR will collapse, you will be labeled as an ignorant.

You can't foretell what will happen 40-50 years from now.

But you can estimate that eventually the US and the EU will collide, because of conflicting interests (if the EU will continue to grow in power and distance itself from the US).

The UK is a different story here.

It is one of the most Euro-skeptic countries in Europe. So ofcourse it will sound farfetched to you.

But ask a frenchmen what do they think about the US, and then we'll talk (and France is much more EU than the UK is).

[Asterix]

In the same sense, I can claim that in 50 yrs the situation will be so that Israel and Palestine (who knows, maybe alongside Syria and Jordan) will be best buddies. And maybe, who knows what happens in 50 years, all these will attack Turkey which will be EU country, dragging therefore EU in a war against Israel.

Sounds absurd?

Well...

f someone would have told you how close France and Germany will be 50 year ago, you would have laughed at his face.

If you would have told an American some 30 years ago that in 15 years the USSR will collapse, you will be labeled as an ignorant.

your words...

[kikuchiyo]

See frosty that's what I call a post, well done. Information presented to a group to support your ideas.

[cheesy moon]

just a theory but here goes

world war III could be linked to the 2012 theory and prophecy( end of world or evolution of world ) world war III IS just round the corner . the war in iraq , every little bit of the ever growing terrorism. Eventually every country will become involved. as for 2012 could be the end of the world, either making it all end or for the evolution part, it could make a nuclear winter all would be infected with radiation creating an accelarated but dangerous and probably fatal evolution or a supernatural restart, life would change completly letting us have another chance at making the world better , instead of the mess were making just now

Edited November 23, 2004 by cheesy moon

[brittish_gurl]

With Bush still as our president, yeah there will be one!!!!! Dude, if Kerry was our President, I don't think we would worry. Bush is a push, he will kill all of us and go to war until we're all dead and buried. While he's sitting in his little white house drinking tea....... but there's nothing we can really do about that, now can we? With him there's just more problems and whatnot. I don't know anymore, all i know is that we'll all get killed in a nuclear bomb or something....lol. So get prepared to be demolished!!!!!!! Just warning ya'lls!

[Erikl]

Yes Asterix but youre assumptions have no base in the present.

You tend to look at word politics with emotional prospective.

I was like that too, even though I knew that "self-interest is above all" when it comes to friends and alliances.

There are no real friends in politics.

The EU is currently pro-Arab because the Arabs have oil. It's simple, and it's understood.

Sure there are cultural ties, but as we learned from the past, even the closest people can kill eachother when it comes to politics (look at all the civil wars, the recent wars in Yugoslavia, etc.).

My logic is comming from these simple facts:

The post-Cold War USA is a sole superpower in this world. Any rising superpower, may it be China or India, will have to struggle against US hamogany to become a second super-power.

If the EU wishes to become a super-power, and current trends in Brussels show it does in the long run, it too will have to struggle against US homogany.

This is simple formula, and you can feed any country in it, not specifically the EU. I know that because the EU and the US are so close today that looks absurd, but you must understand that my logic doesn't come from criticism against the EU, but use of simple political logic.

If the EU won't try to reach super-power status, then ofcourse none of this apply to the EU. But it is a known fact that the EU in the long run aspire to become a super-power.

Ofcourse we are not talking about ten years from now, because the EU will have to go through many changes before it could become a super-power.

It will have to establish a strong, indpendence military.

It will have to become a single soveirgn federation (something that most Britons are against), united like the US is.

It will have to find a common language for easy communication (or at least more useful translation methods).

But even today, the EU has an economic status and connections similiar to that of the US, thus making it a far more feasible super-power that will compete the US than both China and India, which with all do respect, don't have half the economic power the EU or the US have.

And as soon as the EU will try to reach that super-power status, sooner it will come into an inevitable face to face meeting with the sole super-power of our time, the US.

So you see, there is no personal aspect here. I use pure political logic.

Ofcourse, as I said, it can turn out to be totaly different.

But any body who wishes to become a super-power shouldn't kid themselves - they will have to face with the US.

[Erikl]

BTW, Asterix - I just ran a quick search for the phrases "EU USA Cold-War" and "EU superpower" and came with the following links:

Page 1.

Page 2.

Page 3.

Seems though my thought aren't so farfetched as they might seem. Other too sence the inevitable clash between the US and the EU if the EU tries to become an alternative superpower to the US.

[Asterix]

The EU is currently pro-Arab because the Arabs have oil. It's simple, and it's understood

But in this sense, everybody is pro-Arab because they have oil! USA is best pals with Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and UAE because of the oil. Nobody denies that. But it doesn't go beyond the "good trading relations", as I mentioned. And of course you're right, there are no real friends in politics.

The post-Cold War USA is a sole superpower in this world. Any rising superpower, may it be China or India, will have to struggle against US hamogany to become a second super-power.

If the EU wishes to become a super-power, and current trends in Brussels show it does in the long run, it too will have to struggle against US homogany

(First of all hamogany/homogany stands for homogeny, right? Tell me if you meant something else)

True. Post-Cold War USA is the sole superpower. But still, even the mighty USA depend on many levels and areas on others. Mostly regarding economy and trade, they depend hugely on Europe, Middle East, and Asia speaking generally (Mostly China and Japan). As of course these countries depend on USA too. Now, when you speak about US homogeny, that is a really vague term. Are you reffering to national homogeny? Homogeny of policy? Because frankly, I don't think USA is a very homogenic nation. It consists of many different ethnicities, which each one has different goals, status, everything. Great step forward is the "recognition" in a sense of the Hispanic population, since the Spanish language will become, gradually, the 2d official language.

Af for the general approach, I believe that EU doesn't have superpower desires, at least not the kind of "rule the word" (insert voice of Pinky and Brain here ) that USA has. EU's goal is purely economic, although of course there are steps forwards towards the necessary bodies that will assure political independance. Like, e.g. the upcoming European Army, which of course is not meant to be a full-size army, but rather a force of quick deployment.

By the way, Erikl, I think we're having quite interesting convos lately about politics. Even though we don't always agree, I respect your opinions and I enjoy our convos

Edited November 24, 2004 by Asterix

[Erikl]

Whoops... hamogany\homogany = hegemony...

Anyway... I think that in the long run there are countries in the EU who push to create a US-like federation and to make the EU as an alternative superpower.

This is interesting, as there are currently two main attitudes toward the futue of the EU, amid EU members.

There's the "French" attitude, who aspire to create a federation, with a strong European military, and to become a superpower;

and there's the "British" attitude, which believe in a loose organization with strong economic ties, and strong cooperation with the US.

The "British" attitude is more popular in the new eastern members, while the "French" attitude is more popular in countries like Germany, Benelux countries, Spain, etc.

It's interesting to see what faction will prevail and what future will the EU be developing into.

In my opinion, if the "French" attitude will prevail, then the EU will be heading into a clash with the US.

By the way, Erikl, I think we're having quite interesting convos lately about politics. Even though we don't always agree, I respect your opinions and I enjoy our convos

Yes, indeed, we do have interesting convos lately

[wunarmdscissor]

clearly tho

Cat is always the victor

eh erikl ?? ;-) lol

[Asterix]

clearly tho

Cat is always the victor

eh erikl ?? ;-) lol

370412[/snapback]

Cat is ALWAYS the victor, indeed!

[Erikl]

clearly tho

Cat is always the victor

eh erikl ?? ;-) lol

No argument here

Edited November 24, 2004 by Erikl

[Master geek]

Agreed, world war means there is a war, and many, not just two (the defense and opposition) but other countries are included too. Technically this war also has not just the u.s. and Iraq fighting it, but a few other countries (althought their numbers are small) are involved.

But if you're talknig something as massive as Hitler and his regime (WW2)....well, with Bush attacking countries like he is, dont' be surprised if the world bans together to take us down.

I agree Bush is the Hitler of the Modern Era

[Mr Ed]

I agree Bush is the Hitler of the Modern Era

What a ridiculous and uneducated thing to say.

[Master geek]

What a ridiculous and uneducated thing to say.

Is it really I mean there was no reason to attack Iraq

[Mr Ed]

Of course there was.

There was a mad dictator who had already carried out ethnic cleansing on his people and was killing innocent civilians, on purpose, everyday.

Saddam would have got WMDs if he could have.

All intelligence reports suggested that he did have them. Even the chief weapons inspector believed that they might be there.

Now we have a democracy in an area of the Middle East where we never thought that we would have one, minus one insanse, bloodthirsty dictator.

[Master geek]

Of course there was.

There was a mad dictator who had already carried out ethnic cleansing on his people and was killing innocent civilians, on purpose, everyday.

Saddam would have got WMDs if he could have.

All intelligence reports suggested that he did have them. Even the chief weapons inspector believed that they might be there.

Now we have a democracy in an area of the Middle East where we never thought that we would have one, minus one insanse, bloodthirsty dictator.

yeah im sry for what i said i just ate to much chocolate and stayed up 6:00 last night and only got 2hrs of sleep and i just so crabby so sry but still theres the fact that he at least didn't start a terrorist war

Death to Osama Bin Ladin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[__Kratos__]

It will start in the middle east.

I have my money on Iran stirring the pot.