Gun Control Poll

[questionmark]

You do know fluoride i a poison.

So is sodium and chloride.... yet every time you scarf down a well salted sandwich you eat lots of it.

Everything is poison, the ill effects just depend on the concentration.

[Michelle]

Do you honestly feel that it is "as likely" that you will get a flat tyre as is that your Government will attack it's citizens?

I have to say, that's a wild imagination there.

Talk about a wild imagination. I haven't said one single, solitary word about being afraid our government will attack it's citizens. If you spent half as much time trying to comprehend what people are saying, as you do forming a rebuttal, and twisting people's words you might even learn a few things.

[F3SS]

Here's some fun reading for you psyche.

http://www.akdart.com/gun3.html

[Sweetpumper]

43 people shot in Chicago over the weekend. If any city needs to pass gun laws, it's them.

[questionmark]

43 people shot in Chicago over the weekend. If any city needs to pass gun laws, it's them.

They have laws, but strangely guns bought legally all over the country end up there...

The country needs laws to make the last legal owner responsible for the gun except in case of theft. For that we would first need to know who the last legal owner was.

[+DieChecker]

That would be the gun law equivalent, there is only one extreme way.

Or one could be proactive and fight for the right to have fluoride in your drinking water so everybody benefits like it or not. Like a gun ban.

So, if the water has fluoride then I can stop going to the dentist and stop brushing my teeth? Or are all three better together?

[Sweetpumper]

They have laws, but strangely guns bought legally all over the country end up there...

The country needs laws to make the last legal owner responsible for the gun except in case of theft. For that we would first need to know who the last legal owner was.

If you're dumb enough to give away or sell a gun to any numb-nut without documenting the sale, then yes. I'd guess that most legally owned guns used during crimes are stolen. Which puts us back in the same boat.

[+DieChecker]

43 people shot in Chicago over the weekend. If any city needs to pass gun laws, it's them.

Starting in the 1970s Chicago had super tough laws regarding guns.

Gun Deaths in Chicago in the '70s = 850 per year.

Gun Deaths in Chicago in the '80s = 750 per year.

Gun Deaths in Chicago in the '90s = 800 per year.

2008 - Gun laws in Chicago started to turn around away from banning...

Gun Deaths in Chicago in 2006 = 471

Gun Deaths in Chicago in 2007 = 448

Gun Deaths in Chicago in 2008 = 513

Gun Deaths in Chicago in 2009 = 459

Gun Deaths in Chicago in 2010 = 436

Gun Deaths in Chicago in 2011 = 435

Gun Deaths in Chicago in 2012 = 516

Gun Deaths in Chicago in 2013 = 415

Graphing these points shows a steady downward trend.

Also this shows that removing the Ban and allowing private ownership of guns has not made the rates of gun murder go crazy. And gun suicides have also not skyrocketed, though gun suicide is most common way for a person to die from guns.

Source of numbers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago

Edited July 21, 2014 by DieChecker

[questionmark]

If you're dumb enough to give away or sell a gun to any numb-nut without documenting the sale, then yes. I'd guess that most legally owned guns used during crimes are stolen. Which puts us back in the same boat.

According to studies only 10-15% of guns used in crimes in the US are stolen. The rest are just bought on Craigs List, from private to private and so on. The estimates go so far that some think up to 60% of hand guns sold are sold without background check from private party to private party. I don't think it is that high but if it were only 20% it still would be a scandal.

[Sweetpumper]

Starting in the 1970s Chicago had super tough laws regarding guns.

I know.

[psyche101]

You do know fluoride i a poison.

[psyche101]

Really psyche? No argument? Then what are you doing?

I am defending my own rights, being called weak for not owning or wanting to own a gun is pretty insulting too, as is being told my country is "the place to get raped" I doubt your gun guys realise your very much on the high and mighty yourselves. When that started, I went right out and said what many think, the reasons Gun Culture says you NEED guns are excuses, not reasons. So I said "Be honest, you do not NEED them, you WANT them" and that rather upset quite a few people. Nobody here has convinced me they NEED a gun. I can see why people want them though.

We say quite often that we don't care what anyone says or swallows. All these threads on the same matter is simply US in constant defense of attacks on our right by people like you trying to convince US that you have superior views. I don't see many here trying to convince anyone to do or be like US. If you don't care and you don't 'swallow' our reasons what makes you think for a second that we are going to care for your reasoning? It doesn't matter. You do care way too much about what happens here. You invest far too much energy in this conversation to say otherwise. Also, you're going to keep getting combative responses if you keep mocking and characaturizing US. It's insulting.

Again, I do not care what you convince who of, you do not seem to be getting this. If people are going to call me weak, I am going to call out the gun proud people and ask them just how tough they really are, which is not much without a gun in their hands from what I gather! I said I accept the demographic challenges, and I accept hobbyists. These are honest reasons for not implementing a gun ban, and a personal want. I can understand that. Daniel came up with the BS excuse of needing guns to protect yourselves from your government. Do any of you honestly think that is a possibility? I the real world? Because from where I sit that is a preposterous excuse and that peace of mind does cost lives by way of accidental gun deaths. It's not free, it has a large price tag attached. Then I would not consider home invasion an excuse because as I stated, more than 85 million people manage to get by without guns in this very situation each and every day. It is NOT putting guns in the hands of criminals, that is why they are criminals, they have nothing.

As for high and mighty, I have been called weak for not wanting to own a gun, 12 years old for starting there is no real reason to actually own a gun, and macho man BS for saying I keep fit and do not need a gun. Mate, you want to have a look around you at the high and mighty there. I have not once said "get rid of your guns" I have only said "you do not need them" and that is indeed the case. 85 million people are living proof of it. I am just asking people to be honest - too big an ask it seems?

Where did I mock and Characterise the US??? I have been specifically referring to Gun Pro culture people, that's not the entire US is it?

From what I see, I am not the one who is angry, people are VERY angry with me for questioning those poor excuses to own a gun. Just be honest, you want them you do not need them at all. That is a marketing ploy that is helped along by arms manufacturers, and rather than blatant advertising they play on your patriotism and self defence mechanisms. Again I will say, I voted for "like Australia" because I do feel with effort that would be eventually achievable. Fact is the reasons are ridiculous and Gun Culture - any unnecessary killing - is barbaric. Do you feel that is not the case? Do you honestly feel that your Government is going to attack you, so you need to be prepared with a shotgun or that in the event of a home invasion you would not have a hope of defending yourself without a gun? Do you really think a bunch of shotguns will even dent the military's finest hardware? See - not asking to to be like me, or follow my advice, I want to know, do you believe these poor reasons yourself??

Edited July 22, 2014 by psyche101

[psyche101]

Talk about a wild imagination. I haven't said one single, solitary word about being afraid our government will attack it's citizens. If you spent half as much time trying to comprehend what people are saying, as you do forming a rebuttal, and twisting people's words you might even learn a few things.

Is that not the reason the US has guns at all? The 2nd and all that?

What do you feel you could teach me? I am asking many questions and receiving insults in place of replies.

What words did I twist, could you please copy and paste them with an explanation?

Have you comprehended what I am saying, or just having a knee jerk reaction to someone who doesn't love guns? For instance, if you read my post you will see I never said once that you claimed "The Government" was an excuse, I merely asked you if you believed it, and you replied with all this prattle? Why not just answer the question?

[psyche101]

Here's some fun reading for you psyche.

http://www.akdart.com/gun3.html

Do you feel this instances justify the accidental death count?

I do not understand how this explains a high enough likelihood of your Government attacking you so that you need to have a gun?

That also says:

Every 13 seconds an American gun owner uses a firearm in defense against a criminal.

Really? Every 13 seconds hey!! IS crime really that bad? Seems one would not be able to wake up in the morning without being mugged? How many are warranted? I.E. how many actually NEEDED a gun to settle the situation? When every person carries a gun you are going to have a high incident rate aren't you?

When high figures like that are quoted without any supporting evidence it hurts your case, because it looks like it's made up on the spot. I did however follow the links, and that particular one concerning the 13 second mark had this which rather touched home to me:

Speculation about the flaws in surveys estimating large numbers of defensive gun uses resemble UFO buffs' beliefs that the federal government captured aliens from other worlds at Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. The reason most people do not share these beliefs is not that they can be proven false; they cannot, since it is impossible to prove a negative. Rather, most people reject them because there is no credible evidence that they are true. It is the same with speculations about the gun surveys' supposed flaws. Since it is impossible to prove a negative, one cannot prove that massive misreporting of nonexistent defensive gun use incidents did not occur in the gun surveys. There is, however, no evidence whatsoever that such massive misreporting did occur.

Nobody really knows do they? Like I said, stats are BS, you can make them say whatever you want. 77% of all people now that!!

That seems to form the basis upon which gun culture is built upon. Imaginary threats considered as valid reasons.

[psyche101]

So, if the water has fluoride then I can stop going to the dentist and stop brushing my teeth? Or are all three better together?

That's a bit selfish only thinking of yourself mate, I am thinking of the community. Some people will never brush their teeth, some because they do now want to, some because they do not know any better. Should their offspring suffer because they do not know any better?

Only considering personal, wants can end someone up with perfect teeth while their kids and neighbors teeth fall out. Sort of like Gun Culture too in a way, I do not care if people die accidentally, I want a gun in the house in case the Government attacks one day. As Daniel stupidly pointed out, Fluoride is a poison, go crazy and keep it all to yourself and overindulge and you can more likely expect a shorter less enriched life. Restrict the usage, and everyone benefits.

[+DieChecker]

That's a bit selfish only thinking of yourself mate, I am thinking of the community. Some people will never brush their teeth, some because they do now want to, some because they do not know any better. Should their offspring suffer because they do not know any better?

Only considering personal, wants can end someone up with perfect teeth while their kids and neighbors teeth fall out. Sort of like Gun Culture too in a way, I do not care if people die accidentally, I want a gun in the house in case the Government attacks one day. As Daniel stupidly pointed out, Fluoride is a poison, go crazy and keep it all to yourself and overindulge and you can more likely expect a shorter less enriched life. Restrict the usage, and everyone benefits.

Yes. But... Would it be better to just have fluoride, just go to the dentist, or, to just brush your teeth? Or...... Better to do all three?

Just as with guns. It is good to have the police to call for help. And it is good to try to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. And it is good to allow personal ownership so people can defend themselves.

Like you said, it is a shame that some people die due to accidents. And it is a shame that people use guns for suicide. But the numbers killed on accident is actually very small. And there isn't proof that the suicide rates would decrease markedly.

And I just don't believe that we need to take guns from 200 million people to say a couple hundred a year. There are bigger fish to fry.

Edited July 22, 2014 by DieChecker

[+DieChecker]

That also says:

Every 13 seconds an American gun owner uses a firearm in defense against a criminal.

Really? Every 13 seconds hey!! IS crime really that bad? Seems one would not be able to wake up in the morning without being mugged? How many are warranted? I.E. how many actually NEEDED a gun to settle the situation? When every person carries a gun you are going to have a high incident rate aren't you?

When high figures like that are quoted without any supporting evidence it hurts your case, because it looks like it's made up on the spot. I did however follow the links, and that particular one concerning the 13 second mark had this which rather touched home to me:

That does seem a bit too small a number to me. I'd probably put that number at one every 30 seconds. Which comes out to about a million crimes a year. A million crimes over a population of 314 million is not actually very remarkable.

I think this includes any home invasion, or property trespassing, where the owner is home and gets their gun.

Does it say "fired" or "wounded" or "killed"? I think in the greater number of such events, no shots are fired, as the home owner yells at the trespasser/home invade "I've got a gun!" and the person runs off.

Crime here is bad in many urban places. To the point it is not safe to walk through specific neighborhoods during the day, regardless of your appearance.

EDIT: A quick google search shows that someone is injured in a car accident every 14 seconds, yet the roads are not choked with broken cars and maimed bodies. So make of that statistic what you will.

http://www.lawcore.com/car-accident/statistics.html

Edited July 22, 2014 by DieChecker

[F3SS]

I am defending my own rights, being called weak for not owning or wanting to own a gun is pretty insulting too, as is being told my country is "the place to get raped" I doubt your gun guys realise your very much on the high and mighty yourselves. When that started, I went right out and said what many think, the reasons Gun Culture says you NEED guns are excuses, not reasons. So I said "Be honest, you do not NEED them, you WANT them" and that rather upset quite a few people. Nobody here has convinced me they NEED a gun. I can see why people want them though.

Again, I do not care what you convince who of, you do not seem to be getting this. If people are going to call me weak, I am going to call out the gun proud people and ask them just how tough they really are, which is not much without a gun in their hands from what I gather! I said I accept the demographic challenges, and I accept hobbyists. These are honest reasons for not implementing a gun ban, and a personal want. I can understand that. Daniel came up with the BS excuse of needing guns to protect yourselves from your government. Do any of you honestly think that is a possibility? I the real world? Because from where I sit that is a preposterous excuse and that peace of mind does cost lives by way of accidental gun deaths. It's not free, it has a large price tag attached. Then I would not consider home invasion an excuse because as I stated, more than 85 million people manage to get by without guns in this very situation each and every day. It is NOT putting guns in the hands of criminals, that is why they are criminals, they have nothing.

As for high and mighty, I have been called weak for not wanting to own a gun, 12 years old for starting there is no real reason to actually own a gun, and macho man BS for saying I keep fit and do not need a gun. Mate, you want to have a look around you at the high and mighty there. I have not once said "get rid of your guns" I have only said "you do not need them" and that is indeed the case. 85 million people are living proof of it. I am just asking people to be honest - too big an ask it seems?

Where did I mock and Characterise the US??? I have been specifically referring to Gun Pro culture people, that's not the entire US is it?

From what I see, I am not the one who is angry, people are VERY angry with me for questioning those poor excuses to own a gun. Just be honest, you want them you do not need them at all. That is a marketing ploy that is helped along by arms manufacturers, and rather than blatant advertising they play on your patriotism and self defence mechanisms. Again I will say, I voted for "like Australia" because I do feel with effort that would be eventually achievable. Fact is the reasons are ridiculous and Gun Culture - any unnecessary killing - is barbaric. Do you feel that is not the case? Do you honestly feel that your Government is going to attack you, so you need to be prepared with a shotgun or that in the event of a home invasion you would not have a hope of defending yourself without a gun? Do you really think a bunch of shotguns will even dent the military's finest hardware? See - not asking to to be like me, or follow my advice, I want to know, do you believe these poor reasons yourself??

Respectfully, all of your questions have been answered or expounded on in some form by more than some people. You have refused to accept or respect anyone's replies on your core issues. High and mighty is definitely a theme. You used exactly 30 instances of the word "I" in the quoted post. Clearly, you intend for this to be a one way conversation. This has become a discussion about what you will accept.

Maybe it's time to move past the weak/macho argument. Your postion is clear.

I'll address a few though...

Wether you have been convinced of an acceptable NEED or not is of little importance. We owe no explanations. We need no explanations. Besides, needs are circumstantial and their existence is regardless concerning our right.

It's not the entire U.S. but it's enough of US and considering that simply supporting the second amendment as it is is enough to land one in your designated category of belonging to a barbaric Gun Culture then I would say that it is most of US. You have mocked and characaturized most of US.

If people are angry it's because of the gratification you seem to get by taking principles that are important to them and spitting them out as poor excuses in a most condescending way. Honestly man. If you don't see that, well I'm just telling you. That's what we're seeing.

Questioning my morale, or most others, on matters of unnecessary death is insulting and unnecessary. What, do you think it makes me happy? Or perhaps I view it as acceptable collateral damage? Please. Don't act like you cry or care every time you see something sad on the news. What do you want me to do? Fight against the rights of a hundred million responsible people and the other hundred and fifty or two hundred million that support them and the second amendment all because of the deeds of a statistical non-factor? That being guns used to harm vs ones that aren't.

As for the rest, I've already answered you here and elsewhere in the past and in fact I recall that you deemed me worthy of owning a gun. And I'm honored. Other than that, refer back to the top of my reply.

Edited July 22, 2014 by F3SS

[psyche101]

Yes. But... Would it be better to just have fluoride, just go to the dentist, or, to just brush your teeth? Or...... Better to do all three?

Who does though? I have seen a dentist maybe 5 times in my life, if that, I brush once a day, and I have all my own teeth, and they are just fine thanks to being a child in NSW and growing up with fluoride in drinking water, which has also been introduced to my home state now, Queensland. I don't need all three to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

Just as with guns. It is good to have the police to call for help. And it is good to try to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. And it is good to allow personal ownership so people can defend themselves.

I beg to differ, it is not "good" to have a deadly weapon in the home. Some instances indicate it is a necessary step where Bears and the like are plentiful but nobody NEEDS an AR15 in their home. That's what my beef is about. I have every confidence that I can defend myself in my home without a gun. A gun makes being threatening others easy is all. And that is what I do not like about them.

Like you said, it is a shame that some people die due to accidents. And it is a shame that people use guns for suicide. But the numbers killed on accident is actually very small. And there isn't proof that the suicide rates would decrease markedly.

One is significant. This is NOT justification:

Fact: In 2007, there were only 54 accidental gun deaths for children under age 13. About 12 times as many children died from drowning during the same period.

LINK

ONLY 54???????????

Seriously? And that does not matter because more children die swimming? What sort of logic is that??????????

I have to say, how dare anyone take such a light view of life itself!! Saying "ohh it's not that many" honestly horrifies me. That article gives pro gun people a dim image.

And I just don't believe that we need to take guns from 200 million people to say a couple hundred a year. There are bigger fish to fry.

You are after a total gun ban now? I never advocated that as you well know, I didn't even say "You should be like Australia" I have said "The Australian Model works and should be considered as an option" - demographics are a problem there, I understand that, it would be a massive effort. Another thread I would think. And not just the US. It's more like your query with the gay gene. You do not believe people are born gay, you said you have seen gay people turn, so you believe it is a choice. Same here. I do not believe that "The Government" or "home invasion" is an excuse to own a firearm, certainly not an AR15, as there are millions of examples to counter that claim. I want to get the truth out, which I believe is "you do not need guns, you want them."

Edited July 22, 2014 by psyche101

[psyche101]

That does seem a bit too small a number to me. I'd probably put that number at one every 30 seconds. Which comes out to about a million crimes a year. A million crimes over a population of 314 million is not actually very remarkable.

I think this includes any home invasion, or property trespassing, where the owner is home and gets their gun.

Does it say "fired" or "wounded" or "killed"? I think in the greater number of such events, no shots are fired, as the home owner yells at the trespasser/home invade "I've got a gun!" and the person runs off.

Crime here is bad in many urban places. To the point it is not safe to walk through specific neighborhoods during the day, regardless of your appearance.

EDIT: A quick google search shows that someone is injured in a car accident every 14 seconds, yet the roads are not choked with broken cars and maimed bodies. So make of that statistic what you will.

http://www.lawcore.c...statistics.html

Exactly, just what I was trying to say. These statistics show they are a conglomeration of all reports, I bet even a percentage are false alarms that are not corrected. It is not "reason" to own a gun. And that is my point altogether, no real reason exists, it is a want that is considered a right.

I am sure crime is bad in some urban areas, that will happen everywhere that you go.

[Yamato]

No, rights exist outside of want. Just because you may not want a gun, you still have the right to have one in the US. We have the right psyche101. You don't. You've been determined by your masters to be too unreliable. We haven't.

[psyche101]

Respectfully, all of your questions have been answered or expounded on in some form by more than some people. You have refused to accept or respect anyone's replies on your core issues. High and mighty is definitely a theme. You used exactly 30 instances of the word "I" in the quoted post.

FESS With all due respect, nobody has answered my question - "Do you honestly believe your Government will attack you one day?" I honestly feel you're clouded here as your are biased toward the "pro" side.

Of course I used the word "I" extensively, do you remember your initial inquiry?

Really psyche? No argument? Then what are you doing?

You ask me what I am doing and then state I overuse the word I?? What do you expect when you ask about a personal state?

Clearly, you intend for this to be a one way conversation. This has become a discussion about what you will accept.

I never intended it to be that way, bt as I cannot get a simple question answered then it seem such is inevitable doesn't it?

It has nothing to do with what I accept!! What demands have I made to whom? I am merely saying "do not insult my intelligence the "the Government" as an excuse, I have repeatedly said I can see why people THINK home invasion is an excuse, but I do not believe it is.

Maybe it's time to move past the weak/macho argument. Your postion is clear.

I hope everyone has picked up on that.

I'll address a few though...

Thank you for your time.

Wether you have been convinced of an acceptable NEED or not is of little importance. We owe no explanations. We need no explanations. Besides, needs are circumstantial and their existence is regardless concerning our right.

Then do not insult my intelligence. "The Government" is preposterous as an excuse. Just be honest. You do not need them you want them. That is the sentence that makes the pro gun crowd uncomfortable, because that nonsense claim cannot be rationally justified. I am not saying "remove your rights" I am saying be honest about them, and don't feed BS excuses that no rational person would buy.

It's not the entire U.S. but it's enough of US and considering that simply supporting the second amendment as it is is enough to land one in your designated category of belonging to a barbaric Gun Culture then I would say that it is most of US. You have mocked and characaturized most of US.

And yet nobody has the guts to face it when I say, "Do you honestly think your Government will ever attack" If it is such a valid reason that everyone in the US believes they need guns to fortify themselves against this terrible threat, why can't one single person explain it rationally to me?

Heck, I'd be happy to ask Obama the same question - it is a simple and honest question, I don't see why the upset other than it hit a nerve, and perhaps many have realised, well, actually I might have a point, which then goes to Ohh noes!! MY guns!!

Quite frankly, from the great people I have seen here, to say everyone falls into the barbaric side of gun culture I think of as mocking your own country yourself. You said yourself not everyone believes in the 2nd, all I did was ask for it to be justified, not to much to ask of in a discussion forum one would think, and it appears it cannot be except by personal opinion. And you know what, if that is the case, I am fine with that, I just want an honest answer, but nobody wants to give it to me. Considering that nobody can come clean on "Do you think your Government really WILL attack you, it's citizens", how do I not take that as many people not having faith in this 2nd amendment that I hear about all the time? How do you not see that as "an excuse" as opposed to "a reason"?

If people are angry it's because of the gratification you seem to get by taking principles that are important to them and spitting them out as poor excuses in a most condescending way. Honestly man. If you don't see that, well I'm just telling you. That's what we're seeing.

How do you see gratification? I am genuinely interested to see how anyone would come to that conclusion? In what way do I seem gratified? I am asking questions that draw heated debate as there seems to not actually be an answer - you think I find pleasure in that? I am seeking answers as I always do, but being stonewalled. I would rather it be in a more pleasant atmosphere to be honest, but the nature of facing the 2nd amendment does not offer that luxury. People are passionate about guns in the US.

Questioning my morale, or most others, on matters of unnecessary death is insulting and unnecessary. What, do you think it makes me happy? Or perhaps I view it as acceptable collateral damage? Please. Don't act like you cry or care every time you see something sad on the news. What do you want me to do? Fight against the rights of a hundred million responsible people and the other hundred and fifty or two hundred million that support them and the second amendment all because of the deeds of a statistical non-factor? That being guns used to harm vs ones that aren't.

I honestly get the feeling that Gun Culture has indeed desensitised many to view these deaths as "collateral damage" sorry if you do not like that, but that is how it is coming off. How many times have I mentioned these incidental fatalities to be met with a dry "not many" And yes, that horrifies me, and strikes me as considering the deaths as collateral damage, something all gun owners prefer not to think about.

Do I want you to actually DO anything? No. We are in a discussion forum, I merely ask for that - discussion. It is getting heated because we are getting somewhere, we are facing if the 2nd is valid, despite support for it. Heck, I know people that vote for the same party year after year "because Dad did, Grandad did, and great grandad did" which are not valid reasons, but personal reasons. We are not all sitting around going guns are good or guns are bad. That is fruitful discussion.

As for the rest, I've already answered you here and elsewhere in the past and in fact I recall that you deemed me worthy of owning a gun. And I'm honored. Other than that, refer back to the top of my reply.

Well yes, my beef is not "do not own a gun" my beef is "don't BS me about your reasons". But I beg to differ on the questions, nobody has answered the one I keep asking yet. When Daniel said he supports the rights of people to have a gun to fight the Government, I have to say I am surprised that you would think anyone would accept such a flimsy excuse on face value - is there more to it, or do you really think the Government will attack you? The sideline was in a hypothetical situation, they would not protect you anyway - which is very true. A million shotguns is no use against a modern military power. But as far as I can see, quoting the 2nd is an insult to my intelligence, it just does not hold up. If you believe it does, I would be more tha interested in seeing why. As with demographics, if a valid reason exists. I can accept that, but I cannot accept the 2nd BS holds any value at all. It seems more a national anthem than a right.

Edited July 22, 2014 by psyche101

[psyche101]

No, rights exist outside of want. Just because you may not want a gun, you still have the right to have one in the US. We have the right psyche101. You don't. You've been determined by your masters to be too unreliable. We haven't.

It's different here Yam, we vote for the Government, it is mandatory here, I am the master, my say matters and if the pollies do not fall into line, they will be voted out. I guess that is a concept you have never been able to fathom? Have you never stormed into your local politicians office demanding answers? You should. I write to Tony Abbott via email all the time. You ever try to contact Obama? That's how it is supposed to work as far as I know, You are so wrapped up in excuses that you cannot see past them. Man up lad, face your fears, don't hide behind a gun and tell me how tough you are. If you think you are what is "reliable" enough to own a deadly weapon, then I think you make my case for me. Yam, you should NOT have a gun. You are volatile and quick to bite, and generally rather uninformed. I shudder to think of you with a gun.

Have your 2nd just be honest about it. You want guns, you do not need them.

Hey FESS, see this? This keeps the animosity happening two ways. What sort of a response do you expect to a post like that? Is it only OK for Americans to be condescending Aholes? I see a two way street happening here myself, and these people are the ones letting people like you and DieChecker down overall. I'll say it outright, people like Yam should not have a gun. Neither should I for that matter.

[Yamato]

It's different here Yam, we vote for the Government, it is mandatory here, I am the master, my say matters and if the pollies do not fall into line, they will be voted out. I guess that is a concept you have never been able to fathom? Have you never stormed into your local politicians office demanding answers? You should. I write to Tony Abbott via email all the time. You ever try to contact Obama? That's how it is supposed to work as far as I know, You are so wrapped up in excuses that you cannot see past them. Man up lad, face your fears, don't hide behind a gun and tell me how tough you are. If you think you are what is "reliable" enough to own a deadly weapon, then I think you make my case for me. Yam, you should NOT have a gun. You are volatile and quick to bite, and generally rather uninformed. I shudder to think of you with a gun.

Have your 2nd just be honest about it. You want guns, you do not need them.

If I don't need guns, why do cops need guns? Why can't I defend my own home with the same force of arms in the time it takes before the police get there?

Nope never tried to email Obama. I met Ron Paul though, and he cured my apathy for the human race.

[psyche101]

If I don't need guns, why do cops need guns? Why can't I defend my own home with the same force of arms in the time it takes before the police get there?

Well, In the UK they do not, and slowly, it seems here they are being replaced with Tasers, I can see that being implemented.

I find the risk of every person having access to a deadly weapon a bad idea.

Mate, you can defend your home without firepower - it is your home, you have the advantage, you know where very tripfall is, every bit of furniture (you find them when seeking the toilet at night, trust me, gets you very adept in poor light) every knife, every stick, everything. Keep fit and a stranger has no chance against you. When I read the Uncle Sam post about shooting it out in the street, I cannot fathom that, and find it very hard to believe all out wars like that are common. It sounds more like a movie gang war and I feel great very sorry for him. I would not like to have that little movie of having shot another human being in the head with me for life.

If you take away guns from everyone, criminals have to pay a great deal for them, and cannot access them easily. The best thing you can do is make being a criminal hard work. That's going to turn away people in droves.

Nope never tried to email Obama. I met Ron Paul though, and he cured my apathy for the human race.

I cannot comment further, no knowing enough, but like I said, we control them here, every 4 years you impress us or get out. Mandatory voting is beneficial I feel. When the Gun Ban came in in 1996, it was largely welcomed, particularly in the wake of the Port Arthur Massacre. It is not that our Government does not trust us with Guns, we don't trust the Government (any) to track them properly, so we find we are better of without. I know a guy how was at the Fathers Day Massacre here, he spent most of the time hiding, but I am really and honestly glad those Wild Wild West days are long gone with crazy street shootouts and such. Now the Biker Patch gangs are going - almost gone altogether - as well. It's a good time to be an Aussie.