Sir Smoke aLot Posted July 16, 2014 #26 Share Posted July 16, 2014 That should be....While Israel is defending itself and at the same time trying to minimise civilian deaths.. And re the picture above.... Isn't this precisely what Hamas want...? (see OP link) Exactly what they are sending the rockets over for...?....provocation for propaganda purposes.. And then they parade their martyrs to the world. IMO....the above picture shows 'Hamas' displaying their sacrificed babies.... I find it sickening... . Sacrificed babies? ... There is no limit in accusations imposed to Hamas, really. Fathers sacrifice their children so that they could show some blood to the world? And we all know that there is, there will be and there was too much blood already. Point of my post was kinda 'wider' then that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeem Posted July 16, 2014 #27 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Sacrificed babies? ... There is no limit in accusations imposed to Hamas, really. Fathers sacrifice their children so that they could show some blood to the world? And we all know that there is, there will be and there was too much blood already. Point of my post was kinda 'wider' then that. Not everybody can understand the point you are trying to make 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 16, 2014 #28 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Um Nidal"][/i]Um Nidal is filmed with her son, Muhammad, who is armed and ready to carry out a terror attack: "By Allah, today is the best day of my life. I feel that our Lord is pleased with me, because I am offering something [my son] for Him. I wish to sacrifice more [sons] for Allah's forgiveness, and for the flag [of Islam], 'There is no god but Allah', to fly over Palestine.... It's true that there's nothing more precious than children, but for the sake of Allah – what is precious becomes cheap." Golda Mier summed it up when she said "We will only have peace when the Arabs learn to love their children more than they hate us". That was 40 years ago, and sadly they still havn't learned. Source: http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=479 (complete with video). Edited July 16, 2014 by RoofGardener 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Dave Posted July 16, 2014 #29 Share Posted July 16, 2014 This is religious fanaticism at max... or at least it started out of religious causes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted July 16, 2014 #30 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Golda Mier summed it up when she said "We will only have peace when the Arabs learn to love their children more than they hate us". That was 40 years ago, and sadly they still havn't learned. Source: http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=479 (complete with video). Thanks...a wise observation from Golda Mier.. Yes the 'We love death more than you love life'...religious 'edict' .... should worry anyone in the West (and elsewhere) who is an apologist for Hamas... http://www.palwatch....157&doc_id=8022 Edited July 16, 2014 by bee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted July 16, 2014 #31 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Sickening and illuminating... There is a huge propaganda offensive taking place at the moment...with Hamas giving it all they've got..? I expect they are very pleased when children die and/or are wounded ...when women die and/or are wounded... The more the better from their point of view....? The death or wounding of every so-called martyr....willing or otherwise...a victory in their Islamic eyes... A step further.... To what...? Borders are ever changing....Israelis will never give up Israel again...not now...not ever ... Hamas is just keeping the pressure up IMO...waiting for...hoping for...the final confrontation... Dangerous times ahead..? . Be, I agree that that is what is taking place. Setting up for good propaganda. When you are in a war with a foe that is far more heavily armed than yourself, you do anything you can to survive, as a society. If propaganda works...? fine! Why don't we even the score and send as much armament ti Gaza as we do Israel. Make them equal strengthed. Think Hamas will keep firing those lame-ass missiles anymore? And bee, it isn't like the Israeli's don't use propaganda. I call what they write in Western news rags as "News by Jews". Have a nice one, bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted July 16, 2014 #32 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Have a nice one, bee . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted July 16, 2014 #33 Share Posted July 16, 2014 A very interesting article here. recommended reading. It looks at "terrorism" with a more global perspective. http://www.wrmea.org...gangs.htmlamas: A Pale Image of the Jewish Irgun And Lehi Gangs Hamas: A Pale Image of the Jewish Irgun And Lehi Gangs AS EASY as it is to dismiss clichés as banal and misleading, the troubling problem is that they often cloak an essential truth. Scoffs and derision often greet the cliché that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.” Yet freedom fighters is exactly how Israelis view the early Zionists who fought in 1947 for the establishment of Israel—and how Palestinians now consider their fighters resisting Israeli occupation. (more) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted July 16, 2014 #34 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The ideal outline would be: Step 1: Get the Israelis out of Palestine. And whose concept of Palestine is going to be used? Step 2: Send in global peacekeepers for a mission that will probably last 100 yearsg. I thought you were against welfare? Some degree of disarmament of Israel and the Palestinian territories is probably necessary, and a mutual guarantee of non-violence. That’s what the British tried and failed (culminating in the King David Hotel) at keeping arms out of the hands of both sides. How long before the UN peacekeeping forces pull out? And if you disarm Israel, how long before some entity like ISIS or even Iran strikes? This would present an excellent opportunity to blindside Israel. How are you going to protect Israel in those cases? Step 3: Establish Palestine's statehood. I think we need to turn diplomacy up to full for all the neighbors and stay in constant communication with everyone and try our best to be honest arbiters of a win-win proposition for everyone. There's still the issue of contiguity, Jerusalem, redrawing the lines on the map, and so much more. You’re going to *FORCE* statehood on them? If you do that then they have to abide by different rules. Then you have to consider that Palestine’s neighbors do not want a Palestinian state next door. You seem to keep repeating the same tired old circle of objections in every discussion about Israel no matter what the topic is. No, the Charter is no reason to pick sides either. Israel's govt has zero tolerance for the Arab state west of the Jordan River and everything including the map should tell you that. Yes, including the words in the damned Charter. What’s in the charter matters. It is so important is the reason we always return to it. There’s a legitimate reason Israel doesn’t tolerate an Arab State west of the Jordan River. What guarantees can the Palestinian give Israel to alleviate that reason? And now you're slipping in this "rooted in scripture" crap. Plenty of things are rooted in scripture, bud. You don't get to point your finger and tell anyone in the world what's allowed and what isn't. He’s not *slipping” in dogma here. Shirk is a major part of Muslim life. It is the cornerstone of their culture. You can’t force them to live the way you want unless major reform takes place. This is the Basis of Israeli policy. They are not going to force the Palestinian to live a certain way but they will encourage them to reform in order to live peaceably or move on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted July 16, 2014 #35 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Hamas: A Pale Image of the Jewish Irgun And Lehi Gangs AS EASY as it is to dismiss clichés as banal and misleading, the troubling problem is that they often cloak an essential truth. Scoffs and derision often greet the cliché that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.” Yet freedom fighters is exactly how Israelis view the early Zionists who fought in 1947 for the establishment of Israel—and how Palestinians now consider their fighters resisting Israeli occupation. (more) Well, Our Founding Fathers were terrorists too. But their cause had staying power. The cause of the Zionist has staying power. The cause of the Palestinian does not, because of what Golda Mier summed it up when she said "We will only have peace when the Arabs learn to love their children more than they hate us". That is why the Palestinian cause is not pure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted July 16, 2014 #36 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Well, Our Founding Fathers were terrorists too. But their cause had staying power. The cause of the Zionist has staying power. The cause of the Palestinian does not, because of what Golda Mier summed it up when she said "We will only have peace when the Arabs learn to love their children more than they hate us". That is why the Palestinian cause is not pure. A quip that is truly ignorant and racist by Meir, and yourself if you buy into it. BTW, oh, propagandized one, the idea of fighting is for the sake of the children, the society. Like *ANY* human beings on earth, the Palestinians love their children. Or perhaps you have not noticed the pics of the adults crying when they hold their dead child. But we'll see in the long run. So far, the Palestinian people, who have no army and no friends to back up their legal rights in the UN, have lasted a long long time. Much longer than Israel did before they got independance. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLionsHunter Posted July 16, 2014 #37 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) I think Hamas is doing a great job by showing their resistance to a criminal that occupied their country. what lies behind this is that their faith is a very solid and they know that things will change and time will tell. The subcject is that the prophecies of the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him suggest that Israel will be powerful and there will be people in the doors of Qods that they will devout their lives to the freedom of Al-Qods and to fight them until the coming of El-MEHDI. Edited July 16, 2014 by TheLionsHunter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 16, 2014 Author #38 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think Hamas is doing a great job by showing their resistance to a criminal that occupied their country. what lies behind this is that their faith is a very solid and they know that things will change and time will tell. The subcject is that the prophecies of the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him suggest that Israel will be powerful and there will be people in the doors of Qods that they will devout their lives to the freedom of Al-Qods and to fight them until the coming of El-MEHDI. Christian eschatology agrees in part with this prediction. Except we think of the character you call el mehdi as the "antichrist". He will conquer Jerusalem and do his will there for about 3.5 years. After THAT his fortunes go steadily and rapidly downhill. So be of good cheer! Islam will rule Jerusalem - for awhile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLionsHunter Posted July 16, 2014 #39 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Christian eschatology agrees in part with this prediction. Except we think of the character you call el mehdi as the "antichrist". He will conquer Jerusalem and do his will there for about 3.5 years. After THAT his fortunes go steadily and rapidly downhill. So be of good cheer! Islam will rule Jerusalem - for awhile EL-MEHDI is a normal man while the antichrist is a man with powers according the islamic sources. so maybe the christians have missed something 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 16, 2014 #40 Share Posted July 16, 2014 A quip that is truly ignorant and racist by Meir, and yourself if you buy into it. Oh I DO so love it when you criticise my posts, without actually reading them Let me repeat the quote. Um Nidal is filmed with her son, Muhammad, who is armed and ready to carry out a terror attack: "By Allah, today is the best day of my life. I feel that our Lord is pleased with me, because I am offering something [my son] for Him. I wish to sacrifice more [sons] for Allah's forgiveness, and for the flag [of Islam], 'There is no god but Allah', to fly over Palestine.... It's true that there's nothing more precious than children, but for the sake of Allah – what is precious becomes cheap." BTW, oh, propagandized one, the idea of fighting is for the sake of the children, the society. Like *ANY* human beings on earth, the Palestinians love their children. Or perhaps you have not noticed the pics of the adults crying when they hold their dead child. the dead child that they encouraged to die for the cause. WAKE UP E.o.T. But we'll see in the long run. So far, the Palestinian people, who have no army and no friends to back up their legal rights in the UN, have lasted a long long time. Much longer than Israel did before they got independance. Hmm... not sure WHAT you are talking about there, EoT ? The concept of the "Palestinians" - as a nation state/nationality - only came into existence in.. what... 1970 ? 1992 ? Pick your date. But it was certainly later than 1948. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 16, 2014 Author #41 Share Posted July 16, 2014 EL-MEHDI is a normal man while the antichrist is a man with powers according the islamic sources. so maybe the christians have missed something The Mahdi will have "Jesus" to enforce his will. He will make a 7 year peace treaty with the "Romans" no? He will oversee the world from his place in Jerusalem, no?All these things are what the Christian eschatology call for in the future of the " antichrist" THAT character in your religion is known as dajjal. The only thing Christian and Muslim eschatology agree on is that this guy will have only one good eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLionsHunter Posted July 17, 2014 #42 Share Posted July 17, 2014 The Mahdi will have "Jesus" to enforce his will. He will make a 7 year peace treaty with the "Romans" no? He will oversee the world from his place in Jerusalem, no? All these things are what the Christian eschatology call for in the future of the " antichrist" THAT character in your religion is known as dajjal. The only thing Christian and Muslim eschatology agree on is that this guy will have only one good eye. I agree with you that both religion agree on the one eyed man which is Dajjal in arabic, The returning of Jesus is to defeat him because this man will claim that he is the God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted July 17, 2014 #43 Share Posted July 17, 2014 And whose concept of Palestine is going to be used? I thought you were against welfare? That's what the British tried and failed (culminating in the King David Hotel) at keeping arms out of the hands of both sides. How long before the UN peacekeeping forces pull out? And if you disarm Israel, how long before some entity like ISIS or even Iran strikes? This would present an excellent opportunity to blindside Israel. How are you going to protect Israel in those cases? You're going to *FORCE* statehood on them? If you do that then they have to abide by different rules. Then you have to consider that Palestine's neighbors do not want a Palestinian state next door. What's in the charter matters. It is so important is the reason we always return to it. There's a legitimate reason Israel doesn't tolerate an Arab State west of the Jordan River. What guarantees can the Palestinian give Israel to alleviate that reason? He's not *slipping" in dogma here. Shirk is a major part of Muslim life. It is the cornerstone of their culture. You can't force them to live the way you want unless major reform takes place. This is the Basis of Israeli policy. They are not going to force the Palestinian to live a certain way but they will encourage them to reform in order to live peaceably or move on. I'm against all foreign welfare and I'm all for charity and trade to Palestine but we've got to stop strangling it economically first. Whose idea should Palestine be? What kind of a stupid question is that? The Palestinians. What is it with your blase denials of Palestinian self determination, seriously? We defend the Establishment Clause and the Constitution. K.I.S.S. Their culture and their religion is none of your damned business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Raven Posted July 17, 2014 #44 Share Posted July 17, 2014 The Palestinians. And the majority of the Jews, at least any who are born there, plus the ones with ancestry in the region, are just as much Palestinians as are the "arabs". Minor details. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted July 17, 2014 #45 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) . I have been trying to find out where Hamas gets all it's hundreds of rockets from... Is the below accurate..?....or partially accurate...the answer was contributed 6 years ago.. so things could have changed... Russia supplies Hamas with missiles. Also, here is some info about Hamas funding:HAMAS receives billions of dollars a year from: - Palestinian expatriates - Iran (approx $30 million a year) - private benefactors in Saudi Arabia, Syria, and others US intelligence sources estimate that Hamas has an annual budget of around 50 billion dollars, raising much of that money through its reputation as a charity - despite its notoriety worldwide as a terrorist group. Syria serves as an important base of the Hamas organization, from a political, information and operational perspective. Officials in the Hamas leadership reside in Syria and conduct their operations from there. The Syrian Government enables the Hamas leadership and its terrorist commanders to conduct their various activities on its soil, including the formulation of the Hamas operational strategy, the training of terrorist operatives, the funding of terrorist activity against Israel and assistance in the purchase of arms and ammunition. The Hamas *also* has an extensive network of financial sources, operating within the framework of 'Dawa/ activity, with a total value of tens of millions of dollars a year. Charitable associations in the Territories - Funds are raised for the Hamas through the mosques (a convenient domain for fundraising and recruitment of members) and through charity associations and foundations. http://www.globalsec....org/index.html https://answers.yaho...29165300AAN0lCH . . Edited July 17, 2014 by bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Smoke aLot Posted July 17, 2014 #46 Share Posted July 17, 2014 A quip that is truly ignorant and racist by Meir, and yourself if you buy into it. BTW, oh, propagandized one, the idea of fighting is for the sake of the children, the society. Like *ANY* human beings on earth, the Palestinians love their children. Or perhaps you have not noticed the pics of the adults crying when they hold their dead child. But we'll see in the long run. So far, the Palestinian people, who have no army and no friends to back up their legal rights in the UN, have lasted a long long time. Much longer than Israel did before they got independance. The problem is that many people don't 'see' Palestinians as humans at all and that is where those stories are born - only thing that they know to do is to talk bad about Palestinians and it is even considered as a fact that Palestinians send their kids to die just because they are Muslims ( some people think that if you are Muslim you only wonna die for your God but they fail to notice that those 'death wishing' Muslims are the ones who get killed and oppressed for years in that area ). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 17, 2014 #47 Share Posted July 17, 2014 ....... some people think that if you are Muslim you only wonna die for your God but they fail to notice that those 'death wishing' Muslims are the ones who get killed and oppressed for years in that area ). They get killed.. then they get oppressed ? Or .. they get killed, and then become "death-wishing Muslims" ?!? Or..they get killed AND oppressed, and then become death-wishing. ??? Gosh.. it must be confusing being a Muslim ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Smoke aLot Posted July 17, 2014 #48 Share Posted July 17, 2014 They get killed.. then they get oppressed ? Or .. they get killed, and then become "death-wishing Muslims" ?!? Or..they get killed AND oppressed, and then become death-wishing. ??? Gosh.. it must be confusing being a Muslim ! It must be... Especially after you do a pool game with words 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted July 17, 2014 #49 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Oh I DO so love it when you criticise my posts, without actually reading them Let me repeat the quote. the dead child that they encouraged to die for the cause. WAKE UP E.o.T. Hmm... not sure WHAT you are talking about there, EoT ? The concept of the "Palestinians" - as a nation state/nationality - only came into existence in.. what... 1970 ? 1992 ? Pick your date. But it was certainly later than 1948. Huh? I thought I posted that back to someone else, Gardener. Whatever. Anyway, who cares what the date is? Why must it be comparable to Israel's date? Want an analogy? United States struggled for independance and got it in 1776. So, since Israel's struggle for independance happened *after* 1776, it does not count? And BTW, Gardener, world wide Pagans are looking to establish their own country. And I agree! They should have their own country. They have yet to decide *which* land mass they will steal and what people they will displace but I am sure it will all be for a good cause. Do you agree? Have a nice one! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted July 17, 2014 #50 Share Posted July 17, 2014 They get killed.. then they get oppressed ? Or .. they get killed, and then become "death-wishing Muslims" ?!? Or..they get killed AND oppressed, and then become death-wishing. ??? Gosh.. it must be confusing being a Muslim ! Yeah, it is particularly confusing when you try to understand the Muslim complexion by reading "News by Jews" NEWSFLASH: If all Jihadis wanted to die, why don't they just jump off a cliff? What "News by Jews" does not tell you is the Jahadis will gladly die, killing Zionists! Now there's a shocker for ya!! Yet, I am sure you believe it was perfectly honorable for members of the RAF to knowingly go to their death fighting Nazi Germany Welcome to " Contradictions R Us", RoofGArdener 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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