THIS is Hamas

[bee]

How many Israelis have Hamas rockets killed? They're not being fired into "Israeli population centers".

only because the majority are being stopped

they are aimed randomly with the hope of killing as many Israelis as possible

Israeli population centres would be decimated if Hamas were given half a chance

and had the hardware to achieve it...

The "rockets" are little more than projectiles of propaganda for Israel to justify its violence.

this is pure denial on your part...

.

[RoofGardener]

Ah, so when the 'anti semitism' card is pulled against your position, its a logical fallacy. The point you obviously missed, was and is that Zionists scream 'Anti Semite!' just for farting in their general direction.. Yet at thesame time they are mass murdering hundreds of Semetic children.

See the 'logical fallacy' in that?

Once more, you seem to misinterpret - somewhat creatively I can't help but think - my original statement.

I didn't adopt a "position", as you put it, other than to state that Yamato was using a logical fallacy to create a specific smear against Israel. (though - in context - it was more like against the IDF, but I quibble).

Note that I didn't argue the underlying principle, or the overall situation, or politics, or ethics, or the weather, merely that the terms of his specific accusation (that Israel - or the IDF - where anti-semitic because some of the people they shoot are semitic) was based on a logical fallacy. Which it is.

I'm sorry that my simple, specific observation failed to constitute the sort of General Universal Theory of Everything that you appear to be seeking.

Incidentally, can you prove your statement that the same Zionists who scream "anti-semitism" are indeed the specific same Zionists that are Murdering Hundreds Of Children? A simple correlation of names will suffice; I don't think we need social security numbers or passport numbers.... YET.

Also, can you confirm that non-Zionist members of the IDF do NOT murder children ? Because if any of them DO, it kinda invalidates your (and Yamato's) argument.

Finally, can you confirm that you understand the difference between Zionists, Israeli's and Jews ?

Edited August 11, 2014 by RoofGardener

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

That's not what I said. You just made a false statement there which isn't always true. You're misquoting me and bastardizing the meaning of what I said. I said "Israel is KILLING THE Semites. What's more anti-Semitic than that?" Killing the Semites is a reference to Genocide, in case you overlooked that. And there is no "if" about it.

Careful what you say, man!

I just had a thread I made last night, deleted. it was something like "Who Are the Real Jihadis in the ME"

All I ever bothered to point out was that, on or about 1920, documentation (some of it Brit) showing that Zionist settlers knew then that would define their Zion "out of the Bible", and that the Tora told them to use forces: "Obliverate - until destruction", or words to that affect from the Tora.

Then I displayed some of the acts of terrorism the Hagana, Lehi, Irgun and Stern Gang did to eviscerate Arabs in Palestine.

Also showed how they used false-flag operations so as to blame the Arabs for what they themselves did. One of the quotes cam from Israel's 2nd Prime Minister's diary.

I said, basically FACTS with little commentary, other than to say I thought the Israeli's were the better terrorists because we have 6.5 million refugees as proof as to how strong the terror gangs were.

Anyway, I have noticed that Israeli Jews are winning the war in the ME because they win the propaganda war by controlling media, and that includes censorship whenever and wherever they can get it done.

total masters at it.

Am I p***ed???

YES

[Yamato]

Yamato, you seem to be a little confused ? You say that only 22% are fired by Hamas, and then make the curious correlation that...

What do you mean ? Are you saying that if they are not fired by Hamas, they do not exist ?

Do you TRULY believe that rockets are NOT being launched from Gaza into Israel population centres ? Or are you arguing that the numbers are exagerrated. ?

What do I mean. I mean if military strikes are how to defend oneself from "rockets" then Israel is missing about 78% of its strikes, and about 78% of its sieges too, I might add. All of the cliched arguments we hear about why Israel needs to do this don't make sense when they don't have to do it for the vast majority of known rocket attacks we can cite through the years.

This "into Israel population centers" propaganda has no evidence. It's just kool aid from the Israeli bureau and you pour it like you're dying of thirst.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Wow, this is interesting.

I believe I have twice mentioned in here that Ariel Sharon was found not guilt in Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission for the Sabra and Shatilla killings, but his General apparently did not.

http://en.wikipedia....imes_Commission

In November 2013, the tribunal convicted State of Israel guilty of genocide of the Palestinian people and convicted former Israeli general Amos Yaron for crimes against humanity and genocide for his involvement in the Sabra and Shatila massacre.^[12]

anywhere from 750 to 3,500 innocent defenseless, men, women and children, refugees, slaughtered like sheep.

Well they got one of the butchers, anyway

What do you think they will do to Israel? [cough]

My bet,, NUDDA! They will wait until Palestinians recognize Israel first, or some such BS tactic.

[Yamato]

Careful what you say, man!

I just had a thread I made last night, deleted. it was something like "Who Are the Real Jihadis in the ME"

All I ever bothered to point out was that, on or about 1920, documentation (some of it Brit) showing that Zionist settlers knew then that would define their Zion "out of the Bible", and that the Tora told them to use forces: "Obliverate - until destruction", or words to that affect from the Tora.

Then I displayed some of the acts of terrorism the Hagana, Lehi, Irgun and Stern Gang did to eviscerate Arabs in Palestine.

Also showed how they used false-flag operations so as to blame the Arabs for what they themselves did. One of the quotes cam from Israel's 2nd Prime Minister's diary.

I said, basically FACTS with little commentary, other than to say I thought the Israeli's were the better terrorists because we have 6.5 million refugees as proof as to how strong the terror gangs were.

The inconvenient side of the truth is being covered up. I don't know why asking questions and studying chronology and facts and the history of this regime is frowned upon. This is Orwellian anymore how hoodwinked people have become. I've seen some old episodes of The Twilight Zone that were good analogs of this.

I take every one of these media stories filled to the lid with claims made by Israeli politicians with a grain of salt. Any one of these sensationalist events used as justification for mass murder can be called into question. The false flags could be anywhere from zero to all, and they're probably somewhere in between those two extremes. Anybody can launch a homemade rocket up in the air in a general direction. Who knows who they are or what their agenda is. It doesn't even make make sense the way it's being reported half the time.

[Yamato]

only because the majority are being stopped

they are aimed randomly with the hope of killing as many Israelis as possible

Israeli population centres would be decimated if Hamas were given half a chance

and had the hardware to achieve it...

this is pure denial on your part...

.

Source please.

I'm going to question every two words that you speak and if I can't independently verify it as fact, and you're not speaking pure propaganda lip service straight out of the grist mill of Israel, then I'll accept the accuracy of your claims. How many thousands of "rockets" have been intercepted by Israel then? Show me your evidence other than the crusty lies out of a politicians mouth.

[bee]

Source please.

I'm going to question every two words that you speak and if I can't independently verify it as fact, and you're not speaking pure propaganda lip service straight out of the grist mill of Israel, then I'll accept the accuracy of your claims. How many thousands of "rockets" have been intercepted by Israel then? Show me your evidence other than the crusty lies out of a politicians mouth.

cute...

how long have we all been talking about all this....?

and now you're questioning that rockets are even being fired by Hamas in the direction of Israel...

you have no reply so you move the goalposts.

.

[Yamato]

cute...

how long have we all been talking about all this....?

and now you're questioning that rockets are even being fired by Hamas in the direction of Israel...

you have no reply so you move the goalposts.

.

Don't wipe your inadequacy on me. I'm asking you for evidence for your claims, yes. And you don't have any. So you return with replies like this. Can't reveal your source, can't show any evidence. Just more invective.

It's either "randomly" and "indiscriminately" or it's "into Israeli population centers" which is anything but random and indiscriminate. But you can't have it both ways. Find out what you really believe without evidence, find out what your blind faith really is, and have some consistency already. If Israel has you under siege and you fire a rocket into Israel there's nothing random or indiscriminate about it, you're shooting a projectile at the nation that's besieging you.

[bee]

.

Note to Yamato....it's common knowledge that Hamas are firing rockets in the direction of Israel...

You are taking playing the victim card way way too far...

Next thing you'll be telling us that hamas doesn't use human shields, that there no calls for jihad and martyrdom...

and no indoctrination of children to hate jews.

.

Edited August 11, 2014 by bee

[Yamato]

Sorry but "it's common knowledge" doesn't count as evidence. The emperor has no clothes.

The IDF uses human shields so we're going to get started on that siege and aerial bombardment of Israel any minute now.

[Phaeton80]

Careful what you say, man!

I just had a thread I made last night, deleted. it was something like "Who Are the Real Jihadis in the ME"

All I ever bothered to point out was that, on or about 1920, documentation (some of it Brit) showing that Zionist settlers knew then that would define their Zion "out of the Bible", and that the Tora told them to use forces: "Obliverate - until destruction", or words to that affect from the Tora.

Then I displayed some of the acts of terrorism the Hagana, Lehi, Irgun and Stern Gang did to eviscerate Arabs in Palestine.

Also showed how they used false-flag operations so as to blame the Arabs for what they themselves did. One of the quotes cam from Israel's 2nd Prime Minister's diary.

I said, basically FACTS with little commentary, other than to say I thought the Israeli's were the better terrorists because we have 6.5 million refugees as proof as to how strong the terror gangs were.

Anyway, I have noticed that Israeli Jews are winning the war in the ME because they win the propaganda war by controlling media, and that includes censorship whenever and wherever they can get it done.

total masters at it.

Am I p***ed???

YES

I had a thread deleted too, 'Just listen to this.. [Palestine & Israel]'. It is still unclear to me what the reason was to do so. The OP contained one of the most clear descriptions of the Palestinian situation I have heard in the media to date

Ill include the vdo here.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Phaeton80

[Stardrive]

Iron Dome

Iron Dome was declared operational and initially deployed on 27 March 2011 near Beersheba. On 7 April 2011, the system successfully intercepted a Grad rocket launched from Gaza for the first time. On 10 March 2012, The Jerusalem Post reported that the system shot down 90% of rockets launched from Gaza that would have landed in populated areas. By November 2012, official statements indicated that it had intercepted 400+ rockets. On 19 November, defense reporter Mark Thompson wrote that while these numbers were impossible to confirm, the "lack of Israeli casualties suggests Iron Dome is the most-effective, most-tested missile shield the world has ever seen.

Source

The Iron Dome has been in operation since 2011 and is deployed to intercept short-range missiles and mortars, with the goal of protecting civilians in the path of rockets and artillery shells.

It was developed in response to Israel’s second war with Lebanon in 2006, when almost 4,000 rockets landed in Northern Israel, and the more than 4,000 rockets fired from Gaza into southern Israel between 2000 and 2007.

The Iron Dome’s “batteries” — which are made up of radar and three launchers that are each capable of firing off 20 Tamir interceptor missiles, stopping artillery that was fired from locations four to 70 kilometres away in all weather conditions.

It’s first major test came in November 2012, when Israeli officials claimed the system intercepted as many as 85 per cent of the rockets fired from Gaza during Israel’s eight-day battle with Hamas. Although that number has been called into question.

The Iron Dome system’s designer, Israel’s Rafael Advanced Defence Systems, said the batteries are able to “handle multiple threats simultaneously and efficiently” but ignores threats that are predicted to strike outside of the “defended area zone.”

The system does not target rockets or missiles directed at uninhabited areas.

Source

[bee]

.

Palestinians cheering rockets launched at Israel

[media=]

[/media]

[Phaeton80]

Did you report that removed thread I referred to Bee?

[Yamato]

I don't think it needs to be repeated that Wikipedia entries relying on Israeli media and government sources probably wouldn't deviate much from the claims made by the Israeli media and government.

Iraq was allegedly shooting things at Israeli population centers during the US's Desert Storm campaign in 1991 and they were allegedly shooting those random projectiles down then too. It's 23 years ago Israel realized this nonsense was good politics.

[bee]

Did you report that removed thread I referred to Bee?

no

.

[Yamato]

.

Palestinians cheering rockets launched at Israel

[media=]

[/media]

ZIonists cheered the damn 9/11 attacks. So how many hundreds of women and children in Israel are we to murder for that? You just keep throwing slop on the wall hoping at least some of it sticks for someone, and they're just cheap excuses for violence you can't apply both ways. You want this cycle of violence to continue; you've made that perfectly clear for yourself.

[bee]

ZIonists cheered the damn 9/11 attacks. So how many hundreds of women and children in Israel are we to murder for that? You just keep throwing slop on the wall hoping at least some of it sticks for someone, and they're just cheap excuses for violence you can't apply both ways. You want this cycle of violence to continue; you've made that perfectly clear for yourself.

I'm sorry but your responses are getting more and more bizarre....

.

[Yamato]

I'm sorry but your responses are getting more and more bizarre....

.

What's bizarre is abject ignorance for Israel doing the same thing, while using the thing as an excuse to justify whatever Israel does. Cheering dead Americans on 9/11 and we're supposed to go subsidize those political interests overseas while your government sits on its hands; I don't think so. Time for your boys and girls to die for the cause too; time to put your boots on and get back in Basra where you belong.

[bee]

Cheering dead Americans on 9/11

we don't want you to side track this thread onto 9/11...that would get us nowhere...

but as you have brought the subject up...again

here is a video of Palestinians cheering dead Americans......

now show me your film of the so called Dancing Israelis...and then we can drop this

your FILM...ie your PROOF...not hearsay or BS...

of them dancing and cheering

.

Edited August 11, 2014 by bee

[Yamato]

we don't want you to side track this thread onto 9/11...that would get us nowhere...

but as you have brought the subject up...again

here is a video of Palestinians cheering dead Americans......

now show me your film of the so called Dancing Israelis...and then we can drop this

your FILM...ie your PROOF...not hearsay or BS...

.

Palestinians cheering doesn't have anything to do with what I've said. I'm not suggesting we subsidize Palestinians. I'm suggesting we stop subsidizing everybody. What part of cut the cord can you not understand?

A "film" wouldn't prove dancing Israelis as much as testimony of people who witnessed it, such as the arresting police officer.

[RoofGardener]

I don't think it needs to be repeated that Wikipedia entries relying on Israeli media and government sources probably wouldn't deviate much from the claims made by the Israeli media and government.

Iraq was allegedly shooting things at Israeli population centers during the US's Desert Storm campaign in 1991 and they were allegedly shooting those random projectiles down then too. It's 23 years ago Israel realized this nonsense was good politics.

Those where "SCUD" missiles, Yamato. (technically, the 'B' variant of the R-300 Elbrus, to use the Soviet designations). They are a very different kettle of fish from the Qassam's and M21-OF-S/GRAD rockets that are the staple diet of Iron Dome.

Grads have a warhead of between 5-10 Kg high explosives, and a speed of perhaps Mach 2.5. They can be hand-held, and an accuracy of... not a lot.

SCUD-B's have a warhead of beyond 5000Kg, speed mach 5, and require a large specialised launch vehicle. They are too big to be destroyed by an Iron Dome rocket (though a swarm of them might succeed.), and have a MUCH better accuracy. (CEP around 450m on a range of 300Km ?? ). they are FAR from random and - as noted - their warheads are HUGE.

[bee]

.

re post 447..

he didn't see them dancing or cheering...at the section starting 12:26...he says..

"I didn't do much"

the interviewer tries to lead him in by saying people think he has cracked open a window

to who the real perpetrators are...and he says...

"I can't be sure of that, know what I mean. Like I said we stopped these people

and put them in a holding cell"

He's very non committal.

Like I said it would be a shame for you to successfully side track this thread onto 9/11..

I have showed you my proof of Palestinians cheering the fall of the twin towers. You have

shown me the arresting officer working on 9/11.

I am not going to argue with you about 9/11 any more....it's a black hole of doom for any thread...

.

Edited August 11, 2014 by bee

[Yamato]

Those where "SCUD" missiles, Yamato. (technically, the 'B' variant of the R-300 Elbrus, to use the Soviet designations). They are a very different kettle of fish from the Qassam's and M21-OF-S/GRAD rockets that are the staple diet of Iron Dome.

Grads have a warhead of between 5-10 Kg high explosives, and a speed of perhaps Mach 2.5. They can be hand-held, and an accuracy of... not a lot.

SCUD-B's have a warhead of beyond 5000Kg, speed mach 5, and require a large specialised launch vehicle. They are too big to be destroyed by an Iron Dome rocket (though a swarm of them might succeed.), and have a MUCH better accuracy. (CEP around 450m on a range of 300Km ?? ). they are FAR from random and - as noted - their warheads are HUGE.

You're speaking to me like I take the Israeli media and their Iron Dome propaganda weapons seriously. I don't take that anymore seriously than I do Hummus rockets, or those hated Ginger and Cumin rockets.