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and then

THIS is Hamas

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Yamato

.

re post 447..

he didn't see them dancing or cheering...at the section starting 12:26...he says..

"I didn't do much"

the interviewer tries to lead him in by saying people think he has cracked open a window

to who the real perpetrators are...and he says...

"I can't be sure of that, know what I mean. Like I said we stopped these people

and put them in a holding cell"

He's very non committal.

Like I said it would be a shame for you to successfully side track this thread onto 9/11..

I have showed you my proof of Palestinians cheering the fall of the twin towers. You have

shown me the arresting officer working on 9/11.

I am not going to argue with you about 9/11 any more....it's a black hole of doom for any thread... :)

.

Are you just playing dumb, or are you simply not intelligent enough to understand what zero dollars to Palestinians and zero dollars to Israelis means? If I notate it as $0.00 and $0.00, is that clear enough for you? Do you only think in numbers? What is your malfunction? What part of my country emulating your country's foreign policy can you not understand?

If we can't agree on that, it's all just pyss in the wind; trapsing out whatever anti-Arab smear job you can find online is your shtick, I get that. As if when I don't believe the Israeli government, you cite evidence from the Israeli media citing the Israeli government. If you want to stand a chance of convincing me, you can't do it with the criminal government responsible for the crimes.

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RoofGardener

He he he .... if you think Iron Dome is just a propaganda weapon, wait until you see Iron Beam. Rafael reckon they can produce a functioning directed-energy anti-missile system.(due to be released late 2015).

The US and Soviets tried this, and failed. If Israel succeeds, they are just going to be insufferably smug ! :D

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Davros of Skaro

.

I am not going to argue with you about 9/11 any more....it's a black hole of doom for any thread... :)

.

Just remember this Quranic verse.

Quran 9:111

Sahih International: Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah , so they kill and are killed. [it is] a true promise [binding] upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah ? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment.

Pickthall: Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.

Yusuf Ali: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Shakir: Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement.

Muhammad Sarwar: God has purchased the souls and property of the believers in exchange for Paradise. They fight for the cause of God to destroy His enemies and to sacrifice themselves. This is a true promise which He has revealed in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran. No one is more true to His promise than God. Let this bargain be glad news for them. This is indeed the supreme triumph.

Mohsin Khan: Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allah's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Quran. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success.

Arberry: God has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of God; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon God in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who fulfils his covenant truer than God? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph.

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=111

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Stardrive

I don't think it needs to be repeated that Wikipedia entries relying on Israeli media and government sources probably wouldn't deviate much from the claims made by the Israeli media and government.

The second link was a Canadian news link. They're in on the conspiracy as well? He lies she lies everyone lies but.....

And I'd be the first to chip in a 20 spot just to see you call the Canadians anyone's lap dog......

Iraq was allegedly shooting things at Israeli population centers during the US's Desert Storm campaign in 1991 and they were allegedly shooting those random projectiles down then too. It's 23 years ago Israel realized this nonsense was good politics.

They borrowed the Patriot anti-missile system from us as they didn't have an anti-missile system at that time.

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Yamato

The second link was a Canadian news link. They're in on the conspiracy as well? He lies she lies everyone lies but.....

And I'd be the first to chip in a 20 spot just to see you call the Canadians anyone's lap dog......

They borrowed the Patriot anti-missile system from us as they didn't have an anti-missile system at that time.

Oh they borrowed it from us, so I guess we're the lapdogs and not you. Nice.

And we wonder why people complain about "the West". Can you produce any media reporting from Canada that's materially different than that being produced in the US the past few weeks? Or does the correlation lead to greater credibility because they're two independent sources citing the Israeli government as their source? I don't care if you trust everything the government says or not, American or Canadian, blind faith isn't evidence.

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Stardrive

Oh they borrowed it from us, so I guess we're the lapdogs and not you. Nice.

I'm not sure what you're attempting to imply here, but I don't fall for the "when in trouble personalize it" trick. The facts are that during Desert Storm a desperate Soddam Insane started lobbing scud missiles at Israel in an attempt to complicate the situation. So to keep Israel from being drawn into the conflict the US put several Patriot anti-missile systems in the country to counter the scud missiles coming from Iraq.

And we wonder why people complain about "the West". Can you produce any media reporting from Canada that's materially different than that being produced in the US the past few weeks? Or does the correlation lead to greater credibility because they're two independent sources citing the Israeli government as their source? I don't care if you trust everything the government says or not, American or Canadian, blind faith isn't evidence.

Well our media in the US isn't govt. controlled and I feel it's safe to say Canadian news sources aren't govt. controlled either. Is the media in Israel govt.controlled as you're implying or is that just your opinion? And is it your opinion that we're all so dingy that we don't have the capacity to independently verify if these things are true or not? But I guess you'll counter it's because all of the media and news sources in Great Britain the US and Canada are jewish owned. Back it up with links if you do. And if you can't then you're doing nothing more than stating theory as fact.

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Yamato

I'm not sure what you're attempting to imply here, but I don't fall for the "when in trouble personalize it" trick. The facts are that during Desert Storm a desperate Soddam Insane started lobbing scud missiles at Israel in an attempt to complicate the situation. So to keep Israel from being drawn into the conflict the US put several Patriot anti-missile systems in the country to counter the scud missiles coming from Iraq.

Well our media in the US isn't govt. controlled and I feel it's safe to say Canadian news sources aren't govt. controlled either. Is the media in Israel govt.controlled as you're implying or is that just your opinion? And is it your opinion that we're all so dingy that we don't have the capacity to independently verify if these things are true or not? But I guess you'll counter it's because all of the media and news sources in Great Britain the US and Canada are jewish owned. Back it up with links if you do. And if you can't then you're doing nothing more than stating theory as fact.

Was Saddam Hussein firing missiles to complicate the situation or rather was the situation already a lot more complicated than we were led to believe? I think in hindsight we know that it was. Besides I think that's just pure speculation on your part anyway.

What I'm implying is, the US media is corporate-controlled, like the government. The same interests. The same message. The media just carries the water the politicians tell them to, and the politicians scratch the backs, stovepiping our information into fewer and fewer sewers.

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RoofGardener

Tell me Yamato... what sources of information DO you trust ?

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shrooma

I see that Hamas, in a gesture of

defiance today, said they're planning

to 'throw a rock' at Israel.

Israel have replied by introducing

their newest defence weapon: paper.

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bee

.

This is Hamas.......

http://my.telegraph....and-occupation/

wow

This makes me think even more that Palestinian civilians are being cynically used

and are being denied peace and prosperity in a calculated way..

because some people have different plans for them. And at the moment one of those plans

is the huge propaganda offensive being waged against Israel..that can only bring more misery to

the 'ordinary citizens'....

and the conflict appears to be lucrative for some...and handy for making lots of money...

Hamas leaders have become millionaires and billionaires in Gaza. And how did they achieve this when there are photographs depicting Gazans living in squalor, lacking basic facilities? The western media has, in their haste to get the story and ratings, fallen prey to the propaganda of this murderous group of people who occupy Gaza and live off the taxes that have been unilaterally imposed on the wretched defenceless population. The charity collected by earnest folk on the streets of UK and other countries are ‘utilised’ by these leaders for purposes other than welfare. And with this blood money they have invested in various industries and services across the world. .
The question of where these officials got their money exposes the corrupt system used by Hamas through its control of the money pipelines in the Gaza Strip. They treated the money as their own personal possession. “Most of the money that went into the pockets of people in the Gaza Strip was obtained through tunnel deals and the creation of a flourishing smuggling market, which it is believed has created several hundred millionaires in the Gaza Strip, although most of the people there don’t live like that. The man pulling the strings from Egypt with the tunnels is none other than the number two man in the Muslim Brotherhood, Khairat el-Shater. His connection with Hamas was ostensibly for Islamic religious purposes, but they actually built a prosperous business, which earned phenomenal profits,” Elad says.

obviously there are economic differences between individuals in all other areas of the world..

but the impression that is usually put out by the media in general is that ALL Palestinians are

as poor as poor and it's all Israel's fault....victimhood turned into a work of theatrical art for

propaganda purposes...?

.

Edited by bee
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Stardrive

Was Saddam Hussein firing missiles to complicate the situation or rather was the situation already a lot more complicated than we were led to believe? I think in hindsight we know that it was. Besides I think that's just pure speculation on your part anyway.

Saddam was isolated, had no allies, and his a double s was getting kicked by the coalition. It was an act of desperation.

What I'm implying is, the US media is corporate-controlled, like the government. The same interests. The same message. The media just carries the water the politicians tell them to, and the politicians scratch the backs, stovepiping our information into fewer and fewer sewers.

And corporations do what? Make money. How does one make money in the media? Advertising. I think I see the problem though. Perhaps you should take this to the Alternative History, Conspiracy forums for further debate on these matters?

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praetorian-legio XIII

Tell me Yamato... what sources of information DO you trust ?

Good question. I would guess whichever ones he can find to collaborate his beliefs, whether they're true or not.

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Yamato

Saddam was isolated, had no allies, and his a double s was getting kicked by the coalition. It was an act of desperation.

And corporations do what? Make money. How does one make money in the media? Advertising. I think I see the problem though. Perhaps you should take this to the Alternative History, Conspiracy forums for further debate on these matters?

I don't see the conspiracy in making money. It's the reason people work in any line of work. It's where corporations intertwine with government where the problems lie. The road to ruin on this issue speaks for itself, unless you advocate for policy achieving results like these, and that would be the conspiracy here if you did.

Tell me Yamato... what sources of information DO you trust ?

There's truth sprinkled in every source. The big question to accurately analyze the disasters we cause is, why are they focusing on the facts that excuse the policy while ignoring the facts that cause the violence in the first place? Especially when the logic goes both ways, when the excuses go both ways, when your excuse for Israeli violence applies to Hamas just as well, and when there are excuses for Hamas's violence that Israel does not have. There doesn't seem to be a lick of principle anywhere in sight for defending this two faced celebration of death and terrorism by the Zionist regime.

When you oppress people, expect violent responses from some of them every time. Eventually a bully is going to get punched back. "The Arabs", "The Jews", "The Muslims", "Islam", and Israel's noble experiments in eugenics and apartheid notwithstanding and all your group-think mentality adventures notwithstanding.

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Stardrive

It's where corporations intertwine with government where the problems lie.

And there are indeed problems, when that's the case.

There's truth sprinkled in every source.

So you just cherry pick through different news sources? It's either that or you won't say because it's in conflict with your above statement.

post-26642-0-63685700-1407891094_thumb.j

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Yamato

And there are indeed problems, when that's the case.

So you just cherry pick through different news sources? It's either that or you won't say because it's in conflict with your above statement.

post-26642-0-63685700-1407891094_thumb.j

So I just I ask questions and that exposes double standards and hypocrisy in reporting. Therefore I conclude that no one source is good enough.

The death toll, at least, is virtually the same in every news source. People on the ground in Gaza have the best handle on what's going on there, ditto for whatever other area you happen to be in.

The best sources of all, on balance, are local sources. People in Gaza. Humanitarian workers, et al. Civil society at large. Not the government of Israel. Not government, period. If you haven't figured out that governments lie as a matter of course yet, I will conclude that you're naive.

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jeem

Good question. I would guess whichever ones he can find to collaborate his beliefs, whether they're true or not.

And you must trust the propaganda wings of mossad and CIA

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Yamato

Good question. I would guess whichever ones he can find to collaborate his beliefs, whether they're true or not.

Like Gazans? What Gazan have you listened to lately? Not a single US media source has picked up a spoon to actually talk to the people who are actually there.

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RoofGardener

Truly ? Not even with the UNRWA staff ? (OK, they are not Gazan's, but they are on the ground). That IS a bit alarming.

The UK newspapers (and the BBC) frequently carry interviews with UNRWA staff, and we hear quite a lot from the Palestinian Health Ministry, which tends to be the lead agency in reporting injuries and fatalities.

The latter is treated with a degree of caution, as their figures during operation Cast Lead where subsequently discovered to be a bit biased. (maximising civilian casualties, minimising HAMAS/Militia casualties, and trying to pass off Militia casualties as civlians.)

Be that as it may, Yamato, you never did tell us: what sources do YOU trust ?

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Stardrive

So I just ask questions and that exposes double standards and hypocrisy in reporting. Therefore I conclude that no one source is good enough.

Asking questions exposes double standards and hypocracy in reporting. Right....... *finsert facepalm pic here*

The death toll, at least, is virtually the same in every news source. People on the ground in Gaza have the best handle on what's going on there, ditto for whatever other area you happen to be in.

The best sources of all, on balance, are local sources. People in Gaza. Humanitarian workers, et al. Civil society at large. Not the government of Israel. Not government, period. If you haven't figured out that governments lie as a matter of course yet, I will conclude that you're naive.

When in doubt, research, research, research.

10 Most Censored Countries

Azerbaijan, Belarus, Burma, China, Cuba, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Vietnam

LInk

Yeah I know I listed 18 but think of it as a bonus. Read the links so you can properly wrap your head around what real government censorship is.

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Phaeton80
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and then

[media=]

[/media]

:sk :blink::w00t:

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RavenHawk

"I (STILL) don't see one link on this thread providing one shred of evidence for the disgusting jew-hate BS you Zionist liars keep accusing me of." - Yamato

Anything yet, RavenHawk?

A sphincter says what?

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RavenHawk

Even in Medieval times people weren't stupid enough to think that when people who are besieged in a castle or a town are "terrorists" for shooting back.

They are not terrorists for doing that. It’s what they were doing before that is why they are terrorists. For the way they treated Jews centuries prior, when they thought that they wouldn’t have to answer for their cruelty. This isn’t about paying for the sins of your fathers, but paying for the sins that are passed down from one generation to another. The sins of the father become the sins of the sons.

That's called defense, a concept that has always befuddled you. But the besiegers are so "tolerant" and patient, as if that's what makes the difference.

Yes, it is defense. It’s also called payback or retribution. You only see as far as your nose. And how much more tolerant should the besiegers be? When will Hamas stop? If Israel lifts the blockade, what guarantee does Israel have that Hamas will stop its attacks?

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RavenHawk

I’m playing catchup so this is why this response is late:

Tell me, if you would be in similar situation ( i hope and pray that you will never be ofc ) would you accept to be ruled by other nation?

That’s a broad question. It would depend on many factors. But the Jews have accepted rule under Islamic taskmasters for 1400 years. Don’t you think that is long enough?

Keep in mind that other nation was killing people from your area for long time.

That reference makes no sense…

I think that such 'mindset' is something that is characteristic of every normal human.

So it is characteristic of every human being to promise the destruction of Israel?

Do you know how many people died after Yugoslavia breakup?

My guess would be hundreds of thousands.

They all died because they did not like to be ruled by people who were thinking that they have right for everything in Balkans.

I thought it was because of ancient hatreds between Muslim and Christian. Primarily because Christians were getting back at the Muslims because Muslims thought that they had a right to “everything Balkans”. I do not approve of what happened but I do appreciate what Tito had to face. Why he wanted to rule this land, I’ll never know. But what happened there is nowhere near what Israel is doing. It’s not even in the same ballpark. If you want to see the same thing happen in Israel then tie Israel’s hands.

Why do people die in Ukraine? Not because they don't like or because they like EU or any other reason, its because they don't wonna be told what to do ( and there are always some 'players' who use the situation, unfortunately ).

Well then, don’t you think that the Jews no longer want to be told what to do?

Imagine life after one state solution in Israel would be accepted... That is great subject to discuss i think and its very long one too.

Yes, it would be. I think it is going in the right direction. But it’s far from being a perfect solution. Do you think that there won’t be discrimination? I think there will be. The Palestinian would have to prove themselves as being fiercely loyal Israelis. I don’t think that will be an easy task. And in turn, Israel needs to recognize the Palestinian as full citizens. If this doesn’t happen, then participate in Gandhi-like non-violent civil-disobedience. And if the Palestinian did that, the world would line up to support the Palestinian. The world is trying to fight the wrong battle today.

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RavenHawk

Three things:

1) If Israel was committing genocide, then why do the satellite pictures show surgical strikes as opposed to carpet bombing?

2) How many of the casualties are from Hamas rockets?

3) Of the injured that are seen, why are they on ground not covered with debris as seen in the satellite images? The buildings around them are still standing.

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