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THIS is Hamas

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Yamato

Asking questions exposes double standards and hypocracy in reporting. Right....... *finsert facepalm pic here*

When in doubt, research, research, research.

10 Most Censored Countries

Azerbaijan, Belarus, Burma, China, Cuba, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Vietnam

LInk

Yeah I know I listed 18 but think of it as a bonus. Read the links so you can properly wrap your head around what real government censorship is.

I don't think you understand the connection between corporate earnings and government policies yet. Stick with me, you'll come around.

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RavenHawk

Israel has lost 58 lives, 56 of them IDF soldiers. That should be proof enough to silence this endless stream of Zionist BS that they're "firing thousands of rockets at civilian population centers."

And if the firing of thousands of rockets aren’t stopped and it turns into tens of thousands, you’re still be hung up on numbers. Are you the masochist? You require some magic number of Jew blood? You forget the mental trauma that these rockets cause. You’ve never been in a shelling have you?

90% of Israeli dead are between the age of 19-22

Who's sacrificing whose children for the greater good?

At least the Israeli soldier volunteers to sacrifice his life for his people. Many Palestinians are sacrificed by Hamas whether the Palestinian wants to or not.

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Yamato

They are not terrorists for doing that. It's what they were doing before that is why they are terrorists. For the way they treated Jews centuries prior, when they thought that they wouldn't have to answer for their cruelty. This isn't about paying for the sins of your fathers, but paying for the sins that are passed down from one generation to another. The sins of the father become the sins of the sons.

Yes, it is defense. It's also called payback or retribution. You only see as far as your nose. And how much more tolerant should the besiegers be? When will Hamas stop? If Israel lifts the blockade, what guarantee does Israel have that Hamas will stop its attacks?

As is always the case, all of your insults that you get away with around here go right into the trash bin where they belong. And I'll strip your thin bones of something of substance worth discussing.

Besiegers should be condemned and stopped as a matter of principle. You're asking me how tolerant they should be? I couldn't care less.

Now you're conflating this issue with what was done to people hundreds of years ago. It's the baggage of dead people and here you come again dragging it into the room. For shame.

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Yamato

And if the firing of thousands of rockets aren't stopped and it turns into tens of thousands, you're still be hung up on numbers. Are you the masochist? You require some magic number of Jew blood? You forget the mental trauma that these rockets cause. You've never been in a shelling have you?

At least the Israeli soldier volunteers to sacrifice his life for his people. Many Palestinians are sacrificed by Hamas whether the Palestinian wants to or not.

96+% of Hamas kills are IDF; so much for "launching their attacks into Israeli population centers." So much kool aid and so little evidence for it. Do you question anything the Israeli government feeds you to believe?

It would take tens of millions of rockets to retaliate against Israel proportionally.

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Stardrive

I don't think you understand the connection between corporate earnings and government policies yet. Stick with me, you'll come around.

I'll be around. All I've heard so far is your opinion, which is fine, because I'll still listen no matter how obsurd I may think an opinion is. You state your opinion, I'll research it to ascertain the facts. As a wise person once said, If you post enough you'll be right about something sooner or later.

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Yamato

I'll be around. All I've heard so far is your opinion, which is fine, because I'll still listen no matter how obsurd I may think an opinion is. You state your opinion, I'll research it to ascertain the facts. As a wise person once said, If you post enough you'll be right about something sooner or later.

My absurd (sp) opinion is that governments lie and that you really need to stop believing everything the Israeli government tells you. Zionists are like Fundamentalist Religious except their unquestionable faith is on the State not the Church. Criminals have to lie to keep their crime wave going. Politicians lie even when they don't have an important reason to. I'll be asking a lot of questions moving forward as I always do. You can accept them as food for thought like they're intended, or you can get weak and personal about it.

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Yamato

"Pushed too far, we will strike."

I don't begrudge a single Palestinian man, woman or child from feeling the exact same way.

It's time to apply the principle to everyone, folks.

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bee

.

It's about time the world wised up to the reality of the Hamas tactics and the propaganda drive to

try and paint Israel as the 'big baddy'....unfortunately so many people are suckers when it comes

to the Hamas v IDF conflict...taken in by it all...and would rather side with a terrorist organisation

than support an ally, a modern country that seeks peace....ridiculous.

I even had an email from my MP (Member of Parliament) parroting all the usual sound bites about it.

I sent a reply that was a bit like one of my posts here.... :) ...with links..don't know what she will make

of all that (if it gets past her secretary..?)...but at least she will know that not everyone has fallen hook

line and sinker for the Hamas deadly propaganda...

Perhaps people might start to realise what's happening soon...?

http://www.montrealg...1657/story.html

Here’s the key thing: The Palestinian struggle against Israel is a national struggle. Palestinians want to establish their own homeland. But Hamas is not interested in a national struggle.

To Hamas, Gaza is just another piece of Muslim land that has been liberated from the secular Palestinian Authority, and is being held in trust for the dream caliphate. Hamas uses Israel only to scare the Arab masses into political Islam.

All political Islamist groups share another macabre principle. They have very little regard, if any, for human life, be it of Muslims or non-Muslims. They pride themselves on having much higher lofty ideals than mere human life. They can march suicide bombers to their deaths, with the promise of paradise, or they can knowingly subject their civilians to lethal enemy fire in order to draw the sympathy of the world.

on this link there is a picture of a distressed child...who is responsible for that...really..?

who used her for their cause...?...and how many more dead or distressed kids will there be

if Hamas doesn't stop the propaganda campaign..?

also from the link..

Hamas is trying to buy political relevance and shake up the Middle East by sacrificing a few hundred Palestinian lives, a small price for the lofty ideals of political Islam.

Netanyahu so far is aiding Hamas by doing exactly what it wants him to do — inflicting casualties and suffering on Palestinians in Gaza.

Gazans are the most unfortunate human beings on Earth today. They have nowhere to go, or hide from Israeli bombardment. And they are ruled by politicians who don’t care about their lives.

I don't know what Netanyahu is supposed to do though...what country on the planet would just sit back and do

nothing if it was repeatedly fired on by aggressive neighbours.

In an ideal world things might be different but right now we don't have an ideal world..

.

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Stardrive

My absurd (sp) opinion is that governments lie and that you really need to stop believing everything the Israeli government tells you. Zionists are like Fundamentalist Religious except their unquestionable faith is on the State not the Church. Criminals have to lie to keep their crime wave going. Politicians lie even when they don't have an important reason to. I'll be asking a lot of questions moving forward as I always do. You can accept them as food for thought like they're intended, or you can get weak and personal about it.

Yeah, my bad on the spelling. You should have seen my spelling when I first joined here, I thought it was good until then. Like they say, if you don't use it you lose it. :lol: I've weened myself off having a dictionary tab open since then and every once in a while a booboo will get by me.

Like I said though, you state your opinion, I'll reasearch it for the facts, and in the end we'll see who's argument is weak.

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Stardrive

It would take tens of millions of rockets to retaliate against Israel proportionally.

I like this. This is what happens when you post to much without thinking things through.

Here's an experiment I want you to do Yamato. Walk up to a person on the street that looks like he's a tough guy. Without warning slap him in the chops real good. After he pounds your head in say "that was a disproportional response".

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RavenHawk

The best sources of all, on balance, are local sources. People in Gaza. Humanitarian workers, et al. Civil society at large. Not the government of Israel. Not government, period. If you haven't figured out that governments lie as a matter of course yet, I will conclude that you're naive.

Well, the Palestinians lie just as much, if not more. Propaganda is their best weapon. And if it is their best weapon, you know they aren’t going to let out the truth. Hamas is controlling the information coming out of Gaza. How many deaths are Hamas reporting from rockets that have fallen short? What was that? I didn’t hear you. We don’t hear that from Pallywood. All we see are staged injuries mixed in with the few that are actually hurt. Over 300 rockets fired from Hamas fall back inside Gaza. Some probably blow up on the pad. That’s the nature of rockets. That has got to be devastating to civilians. Civilians aren’t taking cover when rockets are being fired from schools, hospitals, mosques, etc. And are susceptible to misfired rockets. Given the pains that the IDF goes to minimize casualties, I suspect that the single incidents with the highest loss of life are due to Hamas rockets. We never see the bodies of dead Hamas fighters even though Hamas has reported the deaths of hundreds of fighters. But if they report 300 dead, it is probably actually closer to 600. Some are probably counted as civilians or not counter at all. So no, the best sources are not always local and definitely not local alone.

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RavenHawk

As is always the case, all of your insults that you get away with around here go right into the trash bin where they belong. And I'll strip your thin bones of something of substance worth discussing.

Then I guess that trash bin is pretty empty. WTF are you babbling about?

Besiegers should be condemned and stopped as a matter of principle. You're asking me how tolerant they should be? I couldn't care less.

And what if the besiegers are in the right? But that’s the point, we all know how little you care because of your racism. You just showed it again.

Now you're conflating this issue with what was done to people hundreds of years ago. It's the baggage of dead people and here you come again dragging it into the room. For shame.

Oh, so dead people are just baggage? Then the Palestinian have no right to parade their dead as propaganda. When will you ever get it? It’s not about all those massacred Jews going back hundreds of years. It’s all about the mindset that is alive and well today that would gladly add to the body count. For once the Jews have the upper hand. They haven’t been the besieger for too long but for the first time since Mohammed, they can fight back against their antagonists (and besiegers) with the hope to win for once.

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RavenHawk

96+% of Hamas kills are IDF; so much for "launching their attacks into Israeli population centers." So much kool aid and so little evidence for it. Do you question anything the Israeli government feeds you to believe?

It’s easier and more truthful to digest what the Israeli government gives out than the poison that Hamas forces on the world. Population centers are still being targeted. That most don’t reach their intended target is an indication of a long period of time of a people faced with a problem that it has diligently endeavored to solve. The fact still remains that rockets are being fired creating mental anguish (PTSD). Hamas could care less about how many Israelis they kill, it’s all for the propaganda reasons. They know that Israel will strike back to stop the rockets as any other nation would, and Hamas will sacrifice their children to work the world into a frenzy to attack Israel. So yes, you are being used. I hope you like it. And the following quote continues to ring true: "We will only have peace when the Arabs learn to love their children more than they hate us".

It would take tens of millions of rockets to retaliate against Israel proportionally.

And Israel will react in kind to stop the rockets. If there are more rockets, there’ll be more destruction and more death. Ten percent of tens of millions of rockets would probably wipe out the Palestinians anyway. They would end up killing themselves off.

I saw an interview with the mayor of Sderot. He took the reporter to a store room filled with expended rockets that had landed in his town. He had estimated that over the last 10 years, about 10,000 rockets have landed here. Israelis are a patient people willing to take a lot of ill will to live in peace. But even for them, there is a limit.

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RavenHawk

"Pushed too far, we will strike."

I don't begrudge a single Palestinian man, woman or child from feeling the exact same way.

It's time to apply the principle to everyone, folks.

You are truly misguided. You’re one of those Secular Progressives. Don’t you think that Israel has been pushed too far and that they are striking? You’re so wrapped up into the Bavarian Illuminati that you can’t see that in the Levant, it is the Caliphate that represents the NWO. The civil unrest and scandals that plague this nation is because of poor leadership. The wellbeing of the nation is keyed off of the character of our leaders. And out leadership is Secular Progressives which is divisive. But this is for another thread. You just reach for anything to throw dirt on Israel. You are just a tool. Your racist resume makes you a top recruit.

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Yamato

Yeah, my bad on the spelling. You should have seen my spelling when I first joined here, I thought it was good until then. Like they say, if you don't use it you lose it. :lol: I've weened myself off having a dictionary tab open since then and every once in a while a booboo will get by me.

Like I said though, you state your opinion, I'll reasearch it for the facts, and in the end we'll see who's argument is weak.

Whose. Whose is the possessive word you're meaning to use. "Who's" is the abbreviated "who is". Research the US Constitution for some facts moving forward and you'll see more clearly whose argument is weak.

You are truly misguided. You're one of those Secular Progressives. Don't you think that Israel has been pushed too far and that they are striking? You're so wrapped up into the Bavarian Illuminati that you can't see that in the Levant, it is the Caliphate that represents the NWO. The civil unrest and scandals that plague this nation is because of poor leadership. The wellbeing of the nation is keyed off of the character of our leaders. And out leadership is Secular Progressives which is divisive. But this is for another thread. You just reach for anything to throw dirt on Israel. You are just a tool. Your racist resume makes you a top recruit.

Secularism is the polar opposite of unified group-think mentality so this latest accusation is contradictory by definition. I don't make the dirt I just see it made and have the balls to call it out. By all means, start a new thread on the US board about "Secularism" and use me as an example if you want. As much as I'm progressive or whatever else you want to call me, I don't require or rely on government to accomplish my ends.

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Yamato

It's easier and more truthful to digest what the Israeli government gives out than the poison that Hamas forces on the world. Population centers are still being targeted. That most don't reach their intended target is an indication of a long period of time of a people faced with a problem that it has diligently endeavored to solve. The fact still remains that rockets are being fired creating mental anguish (PTSD). Hamas could care less about how many Israelis they kill, it's all for the propaganda reasons. They know that Israel will strike back to stop the rockets as any other nation would, and Hamas will sacrifice their children to work the world into a frenzy to attack Israel. So yes, you are being used. I hope you like it. And the following quote continues to ring true: "We will only have peace when the Arabs learn to love their children more than they hate us".

And Israel will react in kind to stop the rockets. If there are more rockets, there'll be more destruction and more death. Ten percent of tens of millions of rockets would probably wipe out the Palestinians anyway. They would end up killing themselves off.

I saw an interview with the mayor of Sderot. He took the reporter to a store room filled with expended rockets that had landed in his town. He had estimated that over the last 10 years, about 10,000 rockets have landed here. Israelis are a patient people willing to take a lot of ill will to live in peace. But even for them, there is a limit.

So if I don't blindly follow the BS from one government the default position is that I blindly follow the BS from the other one? What kind of choice is that? Israel will react to the reaction people have to its policies. If you aren't willing to fight against a foreign government doing the things that Israel is doing to Palestinians, you won't fight for anything. 10,000 rockets is three orders of magnitude inadequate to even get to "eye for an eye". We'd have to surround Israel and strangle it by land, sea and air. And then "react" whenever it gets testy about it.

I'm never seen so much Kleenex and whining about the lame weapons one side of a war is using in a "war". Your cliched arguments go against your other cliched arguments and you can't have it both ways. If it's a war against disarmed populations and you're still whining about their efforts to scrape some weapons together, the sentiments are really tough to adopt.

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Yamato

Well, the Palestinians lie just as much, if not more. Propaganda is their best weapon. And if it is their best weapon, you know they aren't going to let out the truth. Hamas is controlling the information coming out of Gaza. How many deaths are Hamas reporting from rockets that have fallen short? What was that? I didn't hear you. We don't hear that from Pallywood. All we see are staged injuries mixed in with the few that are actually hurt. Over 300 rockets fired from Hamas fall back inside Gaza. Some probably blow up on the pad. That's the nature of rockets. That has got to be devastating to civilians. Civilians aren't taking cover when rockets are being fired from schools, hospitals, mosques, etc. And are susceptible to misfired rockets. Given the pains that the IDF goes to minimize casualties, I suspect that the single incidents with the highest loss of life are due to Hamas rockets. We never see the bodies of dead Hamas fighters even though Hamas has reported the deaths of hundreds of fighters. But if they report 300 dead, it is probably actually closer to 600. Some are probably counted as civilians or not counter at all. So no, the best sources are not always local and definitely not local alone.

Propaganda is their best weapon and that's how lame their weapons are. I don't begrudge people using whatever weapons they have available. Your politically correct weapons don't have any moral superiority over the weapons you're always whining about. I don't have to believe a word Hamas says or imply that Western media gives the whole picture.

As for the "nature of rockets" yes they suck. So they're going to need much better weapons. Improvised explosive devices and booby traps, anti-armor weapons, anti-air weapons, machine guns, assault rifles, grenades, they're in great need for all of these things if it's the "war" you think it is. Unfortunately they're restricted on how many calories they can eat a day because as we all know rockets can be made out of cookies.

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RoofGardener

Secularism is the polar opposite of unified group-think mentality......

That's a ... very interesting statement Yamato. However, I'm not sure I'd agree with it. Secularism - and the individual level - simply means that a persons personal phillosophy on life is not dominated by a Religion. At the national level, it means that there is a seperation between church and state.

Secularists are entirely capable of succumbing to "group think". They may not be susceptible to religious group-think, but they are not invulnerable to it from other vectors.

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and then

That's a ... very interesting statement Yamato. However, I'm not sure I'd agree with it. Secularism - and the individual level - simply means that a persons personal phillosophy on life is not dominated by a Religion. At the national level, it means that there is a seperation between church and state.

Secularists are entirely capable of succumbing to "group think". They may not be susceptible to religious group-think, but they are not invulnerable to it from other vectors.

Yep, my guess is that the engineers who approved the Challenger launch weren't particularly driven by religion.

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RavenHawk

Secularism is the polar opposite of unified group-think mentality so this latest accusation is contradictory by definition.

Really? And how so? I think you are only talking out a particular orifice. RG has already put you in your place – I don’t need to add more to this.

I don't make the dirt I just see it made and have the balls to call it out.

8-) Bhuwahahahahahahahaaha.

By all means, start a new thread on the US board about "Secularism" and use me as an example if you want.

O K So you’ll sit patently in front of your computer for that post, right?

As much as I'm progressive or whatever else you want to call me, I don't require or rely on government to accomplish my ends.

What I want to call you isn’t suitable for even this forum. Actually you do require a government to accomplish your ends. The end that you’ve been espousing on this board is the destruction of Israel with the help of any other government. In fact you are just another tool in the Hamas toolbox. And you may or may not realize it.

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RavenHawk

So if I don't blindly follow the BS from one government the default position is that I blindly follow the BS from the other one?

I don’t think so. You definitely blindly follow one side. Your default position is anti-Israel.

What kind of choice is that?

It’s the choice you try to convince yourself of to support your racism.

Israel will react to the reaction people have to its policies.

Boy, just keep twisting tighter and tighter.

If you aren't willing to fight against a foreign government doing the things that Israel is doing to Palestinians, you won't fight for anything.

If you want to call it fighting, then I am fighting against the ideology of hatred and enslavement that is being directed toward Israel. So I am very willing to fight against the tyranny of a government that will indiscriminately fire rockets at civilians (whether or not they have a chance to actually hit something) and then try to validate that action. That is a morally bankrupted position.

10,000 rockets is three orders of magnitude inadequate to even get to "eye for an eye".

And that is just so much BS!

We'd have to surround Israel and strangle it by land, sea and air. And then "react" whenever it gets testy about it.

“We’d”? Speak for yourself and only yourself and a Hamas wet dream. But if you want to go there, ok fine. Let’s say that *WE* do that. How long till Hamas begins its further destruction of Israel? Uhm? You have no answer because you want to see the destruction of Israel. And after Hamas destroys Israel, what are you going to do when the neighbors begin to annex parcels of land in Palestine? The Palestinian will be treated worse at the hands of their brothers.

I'm never seen so much Kleenex and whining about the lame weapons one side of a war is using in a "war".

You have no idea what you are talking about. You’re the one whining about things. I and several others have been handing your ar$e to you, hence the whining.

Your cliched arguments go against your other cliched arguments and you can't have it both ways.

This is just a load of crap. You pull this perverse conundrum whenever you can’t argue against something. You claim that we are arguing two sides of an argument when in reality, we are not and you just don’t know what you are talking about.

If it's a war against disarmed populations and you're still whining about their efforts to scrape some weapons together, the sentiments are really tough to adopt.

Again, I’m not the one whining about their weapons. You’re the one wanting to see tens of millions of rockets fired at Israel. Hamas is hardly disarmed.

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Uncle Sam

I saw an interview with the mayor of Sderot. He took the reporter to a store room filled with expended rockets that had landed in his town. He had estimated that over the last 10 years, about 10,000 rockets have landed here. Israelis are a patient people willing to take a lot of ill will to live in peace. But even for them, there is a limit.

For more information about Sderot, go this website.

https://teshuv.wordp...cket-graveyard/

Here is some quotes from Article.

Basically, the anti-air strike technology needs 30 seconds to lock onto the target in order to target the rock it and safely bring it down. In order to have 30 seconds for targeting, the rocket must be traveling over 4 kilometers, otherwise it will land before the technology has had a chance to target it. And all of Sderot is within 4 kilometers or less of the Gaza Strip.

Hamas are taking full advantage of Israel's gap in it's Iron Dome system, terrorism this small town and it deaths that happen in the past years is neglected by the media around the world. Not one any of the deaths or injuries in Sderot has been reported in any Media, which leads me to believe the Media an picks or chooses what goes on the media. Children at such age shouldn't be exposed to this constant bombardment by Militants that call themselves Hamas, shows how much disregard for life they have.

The majority of children living in Sderot are on a steady diet of tranquilizers by the time they are six years old. One mother carries around three bottles of pills: one for going to sleep at night, one for getting up in the morning, and one for when the sirens go off. At least 70% of the population is estimated to be suffering from the affects of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

It's pretty sad that children young as six years old have to take medication to allow them function daily in life due to PTSD.

The rockets are made of lengths of pipe, meant for the sewage systems in Gaza, where life would truly be better with some sewers. Instead, Hamas makes the pipes into bombs. The explosives are made from fertilizers, bags of which are brought into Gaza daily by humanitarian organizations aiming to help the Palestinian people feed themselves. Instead, Hamas confiscates them to make bombs. The rockets are further filled with nails, screws, bolts, anything to act as shrapnel and effect more damage upon impact.

Hamas are actually using construction material that should be used to improve on infrastructure to build missiles in their self-destructive goal of bringing about the fall of Israel.

Unfortunately, the people who set these bombs usually do so from civilian areas, surrounded by innocent bystanders. These locations are often mosques, schools, and apartment buildings. Therefore, the rockets sent by the IDF usually also kill civilians. I do have issue with this; if their was a different type of retaliation that could be more specific, that would clearly be preferable. This sort of retaliation arguably only feeds Hamas and Fatah more soldiers for their army, because of the trauma caused to the Palestinian people.

Tells you how the Hamas operate, they use human shields and use the death's of those killed in Israel Airstrikes to justify their constant bombardment of Israel, regardless if they are kids or not.

Edited by Uncle Sam

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Phaeton80

That all those like you may wake up as a (literal or figurative) Palestinian one day, and walk 'a mile' in their shoes. At the very least. Lets see how you'd fare then, lets see if you would still defend your occupier, your military oppressor so fanatically like you do here to defend the Palestinian oppressor. "Oh sure, all my little children were murdered by a high tech bomb fired on this civlian area, but I understand that, because the military that fired the rockets said that we were using our children as 'human shields'.. And although they are occupying us, oppressing us and have generally treated us as sub human for all but a century, they need to protect their soldiers / citizens!"

Id put my money on you being part of the most extreme insurgents around if it were in fact you who were treated like the Palestinians have been for 7 decades.

Edited by Phaeton80

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and then

That all those like you may wake up as a (literal or figurative) Palestinian one day, and walk 'a mile' in their shoes. At the very least. Lets see how you'd fare then, lets see if you would still defend your occupier, your military oppressor so fanatically like you do here to defend the Palestinian oppressor. "Oh sure, all my little children were murdered by a high tech bomb fired on this civlian area, but I understand that, because the military that fired the rockets said that we were using our children as 'human shields'.. And although they are occupying us, oppressing us and have generally treated us as sub human for all but a century, they need to protect their soldiers / citizens!"

Id put my money on you being part of the most extreme insurgents around if it were in fact you who were treated like the Palestinians have been for 7 decades.

When Israel was formed there was no "occupation" . The Arabs made war on them. Several times. They LOST each time. In your world an aggressor should face no consequences OR a Jew has no right to live in Palestine as an equal - period. You cannot even see how hypocritical your words appear can you? On the one hand crying for the oppressed at the hands of the Jews yet not caring that they would be butchered if their enemies had the chance. Perhaps the Palestinians could act as adults? Could negotiate in good faith? No? Then let them fight and continue to die and bury their children. Frankly, their children are not better than anyone else's who act carelessly and cause them harm.
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RoofGardener

That all those like you may wake up as a (literal or figurative) Palestinian one day, and walk 'a mile' in their shoes.......

With all that the Palestinians have to go through, we're going to add to their troubles by stealing their shoes ? :P

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