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and then

THIS is Hamas

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Earl.Of.Trumps

Well then, they shouldn't have started the war, should they ?

Gardener, start the war???? When did it ever end? It's just one tit-for-tat incident after another. You know why the three Yeshiva students were killed...? RETALIATION.

Of course, the West will never really hear about that. Killing Hamas leaders is just "business as usual"

As far as the Gaza Strip is concerned, it is NOT under Israeli occupation; the Palestinians are masters of their own fate, and just LOOK what they've done with it ?

:cry: :cry: :cry: Surely you jest, Gardener!! "Masters of their own fate?

One dude fires off a bottle rocket and men women and children all over Gaza have to be worried about being blown the bleep up. Will they have a house to live in when it is all done? When will the next installment start?

Israel controls Gaza's water supply, steals their gas reserves, has a blockade on Gaza, and you say Gazans are masters of their own fate?

How can anyone blame the Pals for having so much hatred that they do the sometimes irrational thing. It's frustrating to "do nothing". Better to do something and be wrong then to sit passively by.

You know what Israel wants in Gaza? A bunch of dead-minded, obedient sheep living in a slave factory. I'm with the Palestinians. FREE THE SLAVES

Remember history: Israel fully pulled out of the Gaza Strip in 2005, leaving behind a modern infrastructure, with farms and factories ready to be taken over. There where non of the current import restrictions from Israel, nor a naval blockade. Still the rockets where fired. Over 1000 in 2006, and almost 3000 in 2007. Then there was the Palestinian Civil War, and HAMAS took over Gaza. Only THEN where the Israeli export restrictions imposed.

They could have created a model for the new Palestine; instead they created a hell for themselves. Don't blame Israel for that decision.

You fail to admit that there was good reason for firing rockets. You think Israel is just being a kindly neighbor sitting by when all of a sudden, these criminals start firing rockets!!

Haven't you learned by now, Gardener, Israel *owns* the Western media. There is much going on over there that we just don't hear.

And you know my stance, the UN can do one of two things, go into Gaza and Israel with peacekeepers and delivering protections and justice to both sides.

Or..... the UN can let Israel deliver justice!! How smart is that?

Tell me something, Gardener, do you think the UN peacekeepers would have killed those 300+ Palestinian children...? blown up a refugee camp...? blown up the TV and radio stations...?

The world sees what's going on and the world knows that Jew Justice is just plain Naziism

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bee

The world sees what's going on and the world knows that Jew Justice is just plain Naziism

That one sentence is riddled with irrational spite...

Do you ever ask yourself why you have taken up the Palestinian 'cause' in such a big way...?

And why you excuse any and all violence coming from Hamas etc directed at Israel...?

FFS I'm surprised you don't praise the ACTUAL Nazis for the holocaust...

.

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Yamato

Wow.. thats quite a thicket of double-negatives there Yamato. However, having hacked through them, I think I'd agree with you.

I'm not American (tick),

I don't condemn my government for not giving aid to Israel. Why should we ? Israel doesn't need it. (tick)

I don't tick point three though. If the US government wants to prop up its own arms industries by funneling taxpayers dollars into them via Israel, then that is America's business. Personally, I'd prefer to see it stop, and Israel make its own jet planes etc, but I'd hardly criticise America for it.

That's all I'm suggesting here. Why the bloody hell do I become "anti-Semitic" for saying the same thing? Double standard much? And I'm not referring to you, I'm referring to these other characters you have a deep history of agreeing with.

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RoofGardener

That's all I'm suggesting here. Why the bloody hell do I become "anti-Semitic" for saying the same thing?.....

No idea. Perhaps you're just lucky that way ? :P

Do be honest, I didn't see whereabouts you where accused of anti-semtism anyway.

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Earl.Of.Trumps

That one sentence is riddled with irrational spite...

Do you ever ask yourself why you have taken up the Palestinian 'cause' in such a big way...?

And why you excuse any and all violence coming from Hamas etc directed at Israel...?

FFS I'm surprised you don't praise the ACTUAL Nazis for the holocaust...

.

Generally, Bee, when I discuss issues with people, I generally avoid those that use such debating tactics as lies, body slams, innuendo, libel, etc., because it can only to senseless slams back and forth and to nothing remotely close to obtaining resolution. hubris against hubris. pffffttttt

I surely know I am not perfect, Bee, because I can clearly see I misjudged you,.

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps

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Earl.Of.Trumps

That's all I'm suggesting here. Why the bloody hell do I become "anti-Semitic" for saying the same thing? Double standard much? And I'm not referring to you, I'm referring to these other characters you have a deep history of agreeing with.

Because they have no viable defense

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Earl.Of.Trumps

This is ISRAEL

http://www.nytimes.c...lehem.html?_r=0

JERUSALEM — Israel laid claim on Sunday to nearly 1,000 acres of West Bank land in a Jewish settlement bloc near Bethlehem — a step that could herald significant Israeli construction in the area — defying Palestinian demands for a halt in settlement expansion.

And in the end of the day, Israel will claim that the Palestinians "don't want peace".

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Yamato

No idea. Perhaps you're just lucky that way ? :P

Do be honest, I didn't see whereabouts you where accused of anti-semtism anyway.

Don't act the fool. Ravenhawk was saying it and people like you and 'and then' and Gummug and bee were loving it.

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RoofGardener

Don't act the fool. Ravenhawk was saying it and people like you and 'and then' and Gummug and bee were loving it.

I guess it must be down to your cheerful and polite demeanor, then. :P

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Earl.Of.Trumps

Gardener, - and when I say this, you know I am not talking about you. for SURE. You do the fact thing.

There are, of course, snipers among us. Yam is not imagining things, it happens.

Now, you look at ALL the times that the anti Semite accusation is made in here (ME boards), and you'll see, it is always the same few and I can tell you it is BASELESS. I watch Yam closely. it is BASELESS.

LoOzErS resort to name calling because they are too sToOpId to construct a worthy argument out of facts, or they are too flippin' LAZY

It's a kind of "bait and switch". Want to get out of an argument you are losing? you can switch topics real fast with that one.

In the mean time, for you perpetual LOoZeRs in here, I challenge you, show me ONE time where Yam or anyone else in here said anything that suggests anti Semite - as opposed to anti Israel and there is a WORLD of difference between the two.

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RoofGardener

I'd agree with all of that, EoT. I've said this before (can't remember which thread); I've never seen Yamato make an anti-Semitic remark. In addition,- I HAVE seen (or suspected) the term seemingly used to attempt to arbitarily deflect any criticism of Israel.

On the flip side, anyone questioning the standard paradigm that "Israel Evil, Palestinians Good" gets accused of being a "Zionist Shill", or a "paid agent". All rather tiresome, really.

PLUS.... somebody .. and I make NO accusations here EoT...... has been pilfering my chocolate biscuits. I left the packet next to my 'puter last night, and I'm SURE there are fewer in it thismorning. :wacko:

Edited by RoofGardener
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bee

.

changed my mind and deleted...because tis thread is about Hamas and not UM members...

.

Edited by bee
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Earl.Of.Trumps

Gardener: "has been pilfering my chocolate biscuits."

I'd be guessing it's your ex

:--) Good luck with that!

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