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THIS is Hamas

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jeem

The more I see events in the Middle East the more I become persuaded that the culture there is such that they should not be allowed to govern themselves, for their own good and that of the rest of the world. Maybe in a few centuries they will grow up, but just look at the suffering they impose on themselves in Gaza and Iraq and so on.

Well under Islam they were living a very good life had a great culture.You read the history of Fatimid , Abbasid,Rashidun empire.They were all super power in their time(Not a dictating one like US). They were prospering very fast in science(specially in mathematics,alchemy and medical science ). Do you know Kanun-fit-tibb(written by Ibn sina) is sometimes refered as the bible of medical science.They invented algebra. They achieved a lots of great things when they were governed by themselves.

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and then

Well under Islam they were living a very good life had a great culture.You read the history of Fatimid , Abbasid,Rashidun empire.They were all super power in their time(Not a dictating one like US). They were prospering very fast in science(specially in mathematics,alchemy and medical science ). Do you know Kanun-fit-tibb(written by Ibn sina) is sometimes refered as the bible of medical science.They invented algebra. They achieved a lots of great things when they were governed by themselves.

Then what the HELL happened to their descendants?

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Leonardo

Well under Islam they were living a very good life had a great culture.You read the history of Fatimid , Abbasid,Rashidun empire.They were all super power in their time(Not a dictating one like US). They were prospering very fast in science(specially in mathematics,alchemy and medical science ). Do you know Kanun-fit-tibb(written by Ibn sina) is sometimes refered as the bible of medical science.They invented algebra. They achieved a lots of great things when they were governed by themselves.

Islam was conducive to such 'science' as was carried out in medieval times because of the structure it brought to society, but the rigidity of that structure also meant the society was incapable of adapting as the other cultures of the world evolved to eclipse the achievements of the Islamic world, and modern science began to bring rigid theological beliefs into question as to their ultimate validity.

The same could be said of pre-Reformation and pre-Enlightenment Christian culture in Europe, but those two events/movements removed the base of authority the theocracy held over the intelligentsia, and so society continued to evolve and adapt. Islam has not had it's Reformation, nor has the Islamic world had its Enlightenment, and it is doubtful that similar events/movements could now occur to allow Islamic society to restart a process of cultural evolution. Instead, we see Muslims becoming "Westernised" piecemeal as they integrate into other societies.

So, rather than the rapid revolution of the Christian Reformation and Enlightenment, we have a slow-burning osmosis from rigid Islamic society into a cross-cultural mix - but this is being fervently, and often violently, opposed by the more conservative elements in Islam.

Figures such as Gallileo who, although religious, was not above challenging perceived theocratic 'wisdom' even at personal cost, appear to either not exist in Islamic society, or are sufficiently indoctrinated so as to be incapable of challenging the "ultimate validity" of scripture.

Edited by Leonardo
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Yamato

Islam was conducive to such 'science' as was carried out in medieval times because of the structure it brought to society, but the rigidity of that structure also meant the society was incapable of adapting as the other cultures of the world evolved to eclipse the achievements of the Islamic world, and modern science began to bring rigid theological beliefs into question as to their ultimate validity.

The same could be said of pre-Reformation and pre-Enlightenment Christian culture in Europe, but those two events/movements removed the base of authority the theocracy held over the intelligentsia, and so society continued to evolve and adapt. Islam has not had it's Reformation, nor has the Islamic world had its Enlightenment, and it is doubtful that similar events/movements could now occur to allow Islamic society to restart a process of cultural evolution. Instead, we see Muslims becoming "Westernised" piecemeal as they integrate into other societies.

So, rather than the rapid revolution of the Christian Reformation and Enlightenment, we have a slow-burning osmosis from rigid Islamic society into a cross-cultural mix - but this is being fervently, and often violently, opposed by the more conservative elements in Islam.

Figures such as Gallileo who, although religious, was not above challenging perceived theocratic 'wisdom' even at personal cost, appear to either not exist in Islamic society, or are sufficiently indoctrinated so as to be incapable of challenging the "ultimate validity" of scripture.

And you figure all that into whether you agree or not with policy against Gaza?

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RoofGardener

Why not ?

Under HAMAS, Gaza is an Islamic Wafq operating under scriptural (sharia) law.

In that context, the background/history of political Islam may indeed have a bearing.

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Leonardo

And you figure all that into whether you agree or not with policy against Gaza?

No, the only factor that should be taken into account with "policy against Gaza" is the violent aggression of some of the Hamas representatives/members. That does not mean I agree with the scale of Israel's response, or how they choose to target those responsible for the aggression.

What I posted was part of the background as to why this conflict probably will not be resolved anytime soon - because the conservative and conflicting ideologies on both sides will not allow it to be.

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Phaeton80

EoTs link didnt work for me; given its relevance, here it is again.

wanted1.jpg

http://www.wrmea.org...lehi-gangs.html

Edited by Phaeton80

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RoofGardener

Isn't the guy in the middle a somewhat young Simon Cowell ?

And why is Midge Ure (far right) wearing spectacles ?

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bee

Isn't the guy in the middle a somewhat young Simon Cowell ?

And why is Midge Ure (far right) wearing spectacles ?

haha

I must strongly disagree.....

As the pics are presented in #82...

I think Simon Cowell is the one second from the right...(when he used to wear spectacles.)...

And the one on the far right is that gay guy character Marcus in Coronation Street (when he used to wear spectacles)

.

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Phaeton80

Lets all have some lulz about the 'Western' terrorists why not. They were probably somewhat like the inglorious b*stards, so cool..! Kicking antisemite a*se wherever they find them, Oorah!

Heres another one of those terrorists (a symbiote of the Israeli branch), but these are our terrorists. And you'd best be sure to speak below your breath when you talk in condemnation of them. Or be demonised; the anti semite card will be pulled, your character will be assassinated.

[media=]

[/media]

Oh sure, they send our children to kill other's children while dying in the process. But thats what we need to do to 'protect freedom and democracy'! F* yeah.

Edited by Phaeton80
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dr no

Isn't the guy in the middle a somewhat young Simon Cowell ?

And why is Midge Ure (far right) wearing spectacles ?

Making light of terrorist murderers,very classy.

I bet the relatives of the British soldiers who were killed by this scum would love to make light of them too

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Phaeton80

Oh but these are very classy people mr. No. Thats has been made abundantly clear. Mostly 'religious people', 'People of G*d'

People of G*d, who cry bloody murder when 'Arab terrorists' kill the innocent, attacking foreign territories.. pointing their righteous fingers screaming "'devils', 'demons', 'followers of Satan'!"

Edited by Phaeton80
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and then

Making light of terrorist murderers,very classy.

I bet the relatives of the British soldiers who were killed by this scum would love to make light of them too

Would that be the ones at the King David who ignored a warning to leave? Wars happen. People choose sides and pay a price.
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dr no

Would that be the ones at the King David who ignored a warning to leave? Wars happen. People choose sides and pay a price.

They weren't the only soldiers killed during that period and it wasn't a war either,the soldiers had just finished fighting one against the Nazis remember?

.214 British lost their lives in a 7 month period,28 were killed on a train the Stern Gang blew up I suppose they were told not to ride on it?

Your approval of terrorism as long as it is Jewish is noted

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bee

Oh but these are very classy people mr. No. Thats has been made abundantly clear. Mostly 'religious people', 'People of G*d'

People of G*d, who cry bloody murder when 'Arab terrorists' kill the innocent, attacking foreign territories.. pointing their righteous fingers screaming "'devils', 'demons', 'followers of Satan'!"

why can't you just write GOD in full.......?

.

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Earl.Of.Trumps

You, and all that have 'liked' your comment, are truely disgusting individuals.

My opinion.

S'Ok, Phaeton80. That's the same spew that bigots in America used against Negros and American Indians.

Same CRAP. Keep 'em down on the farm!

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Earl.Of.Trumps

The Jewish Palestinians have a state and the "Arab" Palestinians could have had one too...

Yeah, they COULD have had a state, but... the Palestinians would never agree to terms with not allowing the displaced Palestinians to return. That, thanks to that Nazi country, Israel.

Silly Palestinians, huh?

You know how the West writes it up, "Palestine rejects peace and statehood offer"!!

Same old crap.

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Earl.Of.Trumps

A fair treatment of the situation, Leo. I will add that the main difference (IMO) is that if the Palestinians had the military superiority of the Israelis, the Israelis would have been eradicated before now. Perhaps I'm wrong but I think not. The Israelis actually could never do this because of their ethics. Try as one might to utterly demonize this group of human beings they have shown through history their empathy and love of life. It is the fundamental difference between Judeo Christian culture and that of Islam.

I believe the Palestinian cause will end ignobly.

AT, let us keep in mind the European Jews came into Palestine. they are the invading species.

If the Palestinians are angry about that please recall the bitterness that the Israelis have with African immigrants "flooding" Israel. Ok? I mean, fair is fair, this is all a natural human response. I do not blame the Pals at all for being upset.

and better yet, you live in America.

You see how Americans are absolutely freeking out about the expected 600,000 Latin Americans coming across the US border as illegal Aliens? (That is the figure they think it will come to, 600,000) Dude, our country is a thousand times bigger than Palestine was, and yet the Euros shipped - that figure, 600,000 of their Jews into Palestine after WWII

Are you kidding me? talk about a major impact.

Sorry, but the Euros were dead wrong. And this "Israel experiment" as we now know it will ultimately fail

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Earl.Of.Trumps

Well under Islam they were living a very good life had a great culture.You read the history of Fatimid , Abbasid,Rashidun empire.They were all super power in their time(Not a dictating one like US). They were prospering very fast in science(specially in mathematics,alchemy and medical science ). Do you know Kanun-fit-tibb(written by Ibn sina) is sometimes refered as the bible of medical science.They invented algebra. They achieved a lots of great things when they were governed by themselves.

A good, educational post, thanks.

Just one thing, jeem, there may be some Greeks in that would challenge the Fatmid claim to discovering algebra. :unsure2:

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Earl.Of.Trumps

Isn't the guy in the middle a somewhat young Simon Cowell ?

And why is Midge Ure (far right) wearing spectacles ?

Nice. :tu:

Just remember, there were mostly Brit embassy personnel of the 80+ that were killed by Begin's bomb. The King David Hotel is basically where the embassy was housed.

Face it, Begin was a murdering piece of CRAP and British people should not make light of it, IMO, mister Gardener.

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AT, let us keep in mind the European Jews came into Palestine. they are the invading species.

If the Palestinians are angry about that please recall the bitterness that the Israelis have with African immigrants "flooding" Israel. Ok? I mean, fair is fair, this is all a natural human response. I do not blame the Pals at all for being upset.

and better yet, you live in America.

You see how Americans are absolutely freeking out about the expected 600,000 Latin Americans coming across the US border as illegal Aliens? (That is the figure they think it will come to, 600,000) Dude, our country is a thousand times bigger than Palestine was, and yet the Euros shipped - that figure, 600,000 of their Jews into Palestine after WWII

Are you kidding me? talk about a major impact.

Sorry, but the Euros were dead wrong. And this "Israel experiment" as we now know it will ultimately fail

I agree, it will. How does it go? Apres moi, le deluge? Maybe not completely appropriate but close. WHEN it fails the whole world is going to be roiled. If you believe that this one injustice among all the heartache, pain and inequity that mankind has conjured or endured is worth the whole planet burning then I admire your empathy if not your sense of balance. You - and many others - act like the Jew is magically going to leave their land in Palestine. That they will not fight to the last to keep their homes. What if you are wrong Earl? What if they really ARE willing to use the Samson option? Is it still worth it to address this "injustice"?

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Earl.Of.Trumps

Lets all have some lulz about the 'Western' terrorists why not. They were probably somewhat like the inglorious b*stards, so cool..! Kicking antisemite a*se wherever they find them, Oorah!

Heres another one of those terrorists (a symbiote of the Israeli branch), but these are our terrorists. And you'd best be sure to speak below your breath when you talk in condemnation of them. Or be demonised; the anti semite card will be pulled, your character will be assassinated.

[media=]

[/media]

Oh sure, they send our children to kill other's children while dying in the process. But thats what we need to do to 'protect freedom and democracy'! F* yeah.

Great vid, thanks for sharing. *That* is a guy I would for president, a TRUTH Seeker.

I made several friends sore at me for saying that the whole Iraq and Afghanistan invasions were bogus.

The imaginary WoMD in Iraq - what a joke. Bush blamed bad intel, as did Blaire but the fact is, *nobody* in either MI6 or CIA was pinpointed for the bad intel, nobody was fired, it's all a smokescreen.

And we went in to Afghanistan looking for OBL, that bad bad boy that caused 911 to happen?

Too bad he was in Pakistan! He's been dead for yeas and the US is STILL in Afghanistan.

http://en.wikipedia....hatila_massacre

When Ariel Sharon, the butcher boy of Shatil and Sabra, was finally brought to trial in the Hague for his murdering of anywhere from 800 to 3500 refugees, he was found "not guilty". I think George Bush might get away with it, too. Just hold the trial in the Hague where all those nice, respectful WHITE Christians are. They surely will find him not guilty because murder is defined as killing a HUMAN, and all us white folk know that no darkie moozie reached that level of 'human', uhhh,

just saying!

BTW, I have for a long time thought that the US government does have a level of government that is higher than the president. I don't want to list my evidences for that thinking now, I will just say that the assassination of JFK and his brother, Bobby, and these two bogus invasions are just some of the events that have led me to my feelings about it.

Basically, the whole world was against the invasions (except Israel) and it is quite clear now, the real reasons for those invasions will never be told, let alone *who* called for them

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Earl.Of.Trumps

Would that be the ones at the King David who ignored a warning to leave? Wars happen. People choose sides and pay a price.

So all of a sudden, it's WAR?

AT, Israel was not formed at that time. It was TERRORISM, not war. Begin is a murdering terrorist that killed many innocent civilians, NOT soldiers.

And of course, the VICTIMS were the guilty party because they did not heed the warning. Right in stride, my man, right in stride!

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Earl.Of.Trumps

I agree, it will. How does it go? Apres moi, le deluge? Maybe not completely appropriate but close. WHEN it fails the whole world is going to be roiled. If you believe that this one injustice among all the heartache, pain and inequity that mankind has conjured or endured is worth the whole planet burning then I admire your empathy if not your sense of balance. You - and many others - act like the Jew is magically going to leave their land in Palestine. That they will not fight to the last to keep their homes. What if you are wrong Earl? What if they really ARE willing to use the Samson option? Is it still worth it to address this "injustice"?

No, I agree with your contention, they will fight to the bitter end UNLESS common sense intervenes from - say, the UN.

Embargoing Israel, and completly isolating her might do it. Maybe....

The samson option is quite scary. I am more worried about that than I was about the US /USSR pulling the trigger.

So we all choke on nuclear fallout, C'est levie, I can't control it.

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and then

So all of a sudden, it's WAR?

AT, Israel was not formed at that time. It was TERRORISM, not war. Begin is a murdering terrorist that killed many innocent civilians, NOT soldiers.

And of course, the VICTIMS were the guilty party because they did not heed the warning. Right in stride, my man, right in stride!

For the Irgun, the Stern group , the Haganah -yes it was WAR. They were fighting to survive. And when a warning is given and ignored then those who were killed do bear some of the responsibility. You and others here are quick enough to excuse nearly any atrocity done by Palestinians for the sake of reclaiming land they never really owned to begin with. And when a civilian takes up arms against a soldier they become soldiers.

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