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THIS is Hamas


and-then

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you think Cornelius has hatred, and I think you have racism. tit for tat

You, Br, and Yam express your hatred on a regular basis. There’s no argument there. It is clear in your writings. The ability I see from the three of you to ignore *ALL* the facts is unbounded. You get a thought in your head and nothing can even temper it. I admit that I am pro Zionist (and I don’t consider Zionist as a bad word) but my tact is to be as objective as possible. That way I can see both sides evenly. I leave the emotion at the door. I don’t hate the Palestinians because they have brown skin or whatever. I’m concerned with their dogma. That dogma makes them untrustworthy. You can’t afford to personally hate your enemy.

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Raven, you wont find a single statement I have made where I have expressed a desire to see the Israeli's killed or driven from "their" lands. Not bad for a man filled with hate.

You on the other hand have sought the elimination of the Palestinians on numerous occasions.

Now ask yourself again - who has hate, and who has the capability of objective analysis ?

You really are self delusional on so many levels.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Guest
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Raven, you wont find a single statement I have made where I have expressed a desire to see the Israeli's killed or driven from "their" lands. Not bad for a man filled with hate.

You on the other hand have sought the elimination of the Palestinians on numerous occasions.

Now ask yourself again - who has hate, and who has the capability of objective analysis ?

Br Cornelius

When you advocate policies that would of necessity have the effect of killing and displacing Israelis then you cannot claim to be unbiased at a minimum and a hater most likely. It's like saying -"I don't want Jews to be killed UNLESS that's the only way to give the Palestinians what they want. The problem with supporting the Palestinians is that a fair minded person quickly comes up against their brutality and absolute unwillingness to compromise. It reminds me of a rather crude but apropos expression from my youth: Don't p*** down my back and try to tell me it's raining.
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And Then, I have advocated a negotiated settlement based on the UN borders - NO ISRAELI NEED DIE IN THAT ARRANGEMENT !!!!!!

Can you not get it into your head that your doom prohecies are your own projection based on your Biblical study - nothing more.

Br Cornelius

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And Raven you have expressed hatred of the whole Muslim religion and all those who worship it on so many occasions that your statement that its just rational analysis goes well beyond a joke.

Br Cornelius

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I don't listen to Mark Levin much but just happen to have the opportunity to do so last night. I only caught the first 15-20 mins but it was very interesting and appropriate to this thread. When I got home, I searched his site for that podcast:

http:// www.stationcaster.com/stations/mark/media/mpeg/7_21_14_Mark_Levin_Audio_Rewind-1405991500.mp3

(NOTE: sometimes the play toolbar appears and other times it does not, so I leave this as a broken link for you to reconstitute)

At least listen to that first 20 mins. The whole program was interesting. I already knew some of the information he presented so while listening to the rest of the podcast, I did more searching and found the following - all very interesting:

http://www.hirhome.c...colapso_eng.htm

Edited by RavenHawk
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I admit that I am pro Zionist

That's like admitting your pro-Nazi,because at the end of the day they are the same.

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That's like admitting your pro-Nazi,because at the end of the day they are the same.

It's a disgusting lie and no matter how many times it is used it will still be an ineffectual, disgusting LIE.
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It's a disgusting lie and no matter how many times it is used it will still be an ineffectual, disgusting LIE.

You just lie to yourself,suck it up Buttercup because it is the truth.Zionists are the modern day equivalent of the Nazi's.

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That's like admitting your pro-Nazi,because at the end of the day they are the same.

At the end of the day, they *ARE* not the same. Zionism is very similar to Manifest Destiny in early America. If you believe otherwise just indicates how effective the lie is.

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At the end of the day, they *ARE* not the same. Zionism is very similar to Manifest Destiny in early America. If you believe otherwise just indicates how effective the lie is.

Keep telling yourself that,as your lower your head into the sand...

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And Raven you have expressed hatred of the whole Muslim religion and all those who worship it on so many occasions that your statement that its just rational analysis goes well beyond a joke.

I have never expressed hatred of the whole Muslim religion. I find it offensive to see others refer to Muslims as ragheads or whatever. I have been very critical and I’ve made that clear. I’ve merely presented the facts. In fact I admire the faith greatly. I just see the faults in it and its people. It is counter to my beliefs and it must be tamed before it destroys my world. I am a non-believer and I do not relish the thought of being forced to submit or even consider my children doing so.

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At the end of the day, they *ARE* not the same. Zionism is very similar to Manifest Destiny in early America. If you believe otherwise just indicates how effective the lie is.

manifest destiny is another lie told to justify American exceptionalism and Imperialism. A story used to justify atrocities for the greater good (starting with the genocide of the native Americans) and the end result of a perfect Imperial world. Its just more bull**** like the bull**** underpinning Zionism.

Br Cornelius

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I have never expressed hatred of the whole Muslim religion. I find it offensive to see others refer to Muslims as ragheads or whatever. I have been very critical and I've made that clear. I've merely presented the facts. In fact I admire the faith greatly. I just see the faults in it and its people. It is counter to my beliefs and it must be tamed before it destroys my world. I am a non-believer and I do not relish the thought of being forced to submit or even consider my children doing so.

I think you would do better to actually acqaint yourself with your 'enemy'. What these extremists are doing, is not Islam, against the Qur'an. Just as the attrocities the Roman Catholic Church committed in the past (& present) is not Christianity, is not what Yeshua preached. Rather the direct opposite. Which is to be expected, in this age of deception.

In Islam, it is not permitted to force people to convert, or 'submit' anything on anybody who does not desire it.

Qur'an 2:256 "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error"

Here is what some famous historians have to say about this issue:

"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is on of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated."

-De Lacy O'Leary, ISLAM AT THE CROSSROADS, London, 1923, p.8.

I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind.... I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life.

Mahatma Gandhi, statement published in 'Young India,'1924

"No other religion in history spread so rapidly as Islam. The West has widely believed that this surge of religion was made possible by the sword. But no modern scholar accepts this idea, and the Qur’an is explicit in the support of the freedom of conscience."

-James Michener in ‘Islam: The Misunderstood Religion,’ Reader’s Digest, May 1955, pp. 68-70.

Incidentally these well-established facts dispose of the idea so widely fostered in Christian writings that the Muslims, wherever they went, forced people to accept Islam at the point of the sword.

-Lawrence E. Browne in ‘The Prospects of Islam,’ 1944

http://www.guidetosa...about_islam.htm

There is an effort to demonise Islam at a grand scale. This serves (a) political purpose(s). Most Westerners get fed all sorts of extreme nonsense by the mainstream media, and subsequently seek to confirm their suspicions by looking up verses here and there.. Like it (Qur'an) was an encyclopedia. No book could be known with such a method, let alone scripture. Any religious individual should recognize that. Please take some effort to actually research this subject. It would take some time (the whole scripture in contemporary context), but it may just prevent you from seeing your friend as your enemy.

Btw, this might feel like some sort of conversion effort.. Islamic promo. Its not. I couldnt care less what you or anyone wants to believe. Who am I to judge (or care about) that. I just think you have come to your so definite conclusions, prematurely. And Im sure you, in turn, dont care about that. I can only hope I have sparked some curiosity into this 'other picture' of our Great Western Nemesis.

In any case, wish you well.

Edited by Phaeton80
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Qur'an 2:256 "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error"

I quote this ayah many times. I agree, there is no compulsion. So what is the penalty of not submitting?

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I quote this ayah many times. I agree, there is no compulsion. So what is the penalty of not submitting?

For an Atheist? There is none, not in this life. They generally dont believe in judgement after death, which would preceed the penalty, if one indeed is in order. Therefor, for them, 'there is none'.

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For an Atheist? There is none, not in this life. They generally dont believe in judgement after death, which would preceed the penalty, if one indeed is in order. Therefor, for them, 'there is none'.

That’s not what I asked. If this is the quality of your answer, then I’d suggest that *YOU* “take some effort to actually research this subject”. There is a lot more to it that a few quotes from non-believers. When you study the Quran, you need to latch onto concepts when looking at ayahs.

So you don’t know what the Quran says about punishment of non-believers? And this is the context that we are discussing. That you are an atheist is unimportant. We’re not looking at this from your point of view or mine but from what a believer believes.

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That's not what I asked. If this is the quality of your answer, then I'd suggest that *YOU* "take some effort to actually research this subject". There is a lot more to it that a few quotes from non-believers. When you study the Quran, you need to latch onto concepts when looking at ayahs.

So you don't know what the Quran says about punishment of non-believers? And this is the context that we are discussing. That you are an atheist is unimportant. We're not looking at this from your point of view or mine but from what a believer believes.

Im not an Atheist. Why dont you tell me what it says. You are obviously itching to lay something down here. Please, by all means.

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That's not what I asked. If this is the quality of your answer, then I'd suggest that *YOU* "take some effort to actually research this subject". There is a lot more to it that a few quotes from non-believers. When you study the Quran, you need to latch onto concepts when looking at ayahs.

So you don't know what the Quran says about punishment of non-believers? And this is the context that we are discussing. That you are an atheist is unimportant. We're not looking at this from your point of view or mine but from what a believer believes.

Looks like we're back to blaming religion and thrusting our crazy crusade in peoples' faces again.

The world is full of Muslims who actually read the Qu'ran and they don't do any of the things that you imagine.

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Im not an Atheist.

Then that makes your reply not just somewhat useless, it makes it totally useless. Your answer wasn’t even in the ballpark.

Why dont you tell me what it says. You are obviously itching to lay something down here. Please, by all means.

I asked you, you’re the one with the itch. You come across as an SME, so I want to know what you have to say. If not, then we are done here.

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Looks like we're back to blaming religion and thrusting our crazy crusade in peoples' faces again.

We’re not back to blaming religion. We’re at answering a question. If that is a crazy crusade then it’s only because people get tired of your crazy crusades.

The world is full of Muslims who actually read the Qu'ran and they don't do any of the things that you imagine.

I imagine that they are very devout in their beliefs.

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Then that makes your reply not just somewhat useless, it makes it totally useless. Your answer wasn't even in the ballpark.

I asked you, you're the one with the itch. You come across as an SME, so I want to know what you have to say. If not, then we are done here.

Right right.

I apologize adressing you. It will not happen again any time soon, I assure you.

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We're not back to blaming religion. We're at answering a question. If that is a crazy crusade then it's only because people get tired of your crazy crusades.

I imagine that they are very devout in their beliefs.

What are my crusades? What are my policy ideas?

I imagine I'm devout in my beliefs too; what do you want to do about that? So what? Is there anything actionable in anything that you have to say about policy?

99% of the diatribes you have about this topic are irrelevant to my life unless your bureaucrats keep sticking their noses in foreigners business. All of your fear mongering and your complaints about "the Muslims" I've ever heard are caused by you, you're the agent of your own displeasure. You keep sticking your nose where it doesn't belong and putting my nose at risk for it. And then hoping I'll hear you when it's time to monger again because I'm now in the big steaming cauldron too, well how convenient that must be.

There's always an extremist out there who applies guilt by association just like you do, it doesn't matter what damn religion he is, and while you have other people pushing the buttons for you and killing the mothers, sisters and daughters that you don't bloody care about, if we applied your insane Zionist policy ideas anywhere else in the world today they're going to have the same disastrous results. You don't go stealing other peoples homes, living on peoples land, committing one slaughter after another. You do any one of those, and you put yourself in a moral ditch.

Israel is probably the most heated special interest group in the US today. Most people are too scared to even discuss it. So people who aren't must annoy Zionists profusely. Going by the magnitude of the reactions people have to what I say here, it's like the 9/11 Commission said: "This is sensitive ground."

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