Message from Dr Norman G. Finkelstein

[Br Cornelius 6,437]

Powerful message from decendant of holocaust victims

The world will not continue to be blinded to Zionist oppression in the face of Anti-Defamation-League tactics. The world is turning against Israel as never before and it is the fruits of their own labours which are bringing it home.

Br Cornelius

[and then 48,163]

The world can turn against them as much as it likes. But they have said they will never burn again - alone. Seems fair enough to me.

[Br Cornelius 6,437]

A nation cannot live as an Island. The more they are made pariah state - the more likely they will change their behaviour. No nation can live in state where they are hated by everyone.

Your Biblical doom prophecies are a denial of the actual reality Israel will face and the change that it will bring.

More detailed analysis

Br Cornelius

Edited July 15, 2014 by Br Cornelius

[RoofGardener 17,505]

Well, that's the opinion of Norman G. Finkelstein, an American who has never lived in Israel.

He has never been to Isreal. (not without trying).

He has rarely stepped outside of the USA.

But he has an opinion. Fair enough.

What was that Dirty Harry quote ? Something about everyone having an opinion ?

[Br Cornelius 6,437]

Well, that's the opinion of Norman G. Finkelstein, an American who has never lived in Israel.

He has never been to Isreal. (not without trying).

He has rarely stepped outside of the USA.

But he has an opinion. Fair enough.

What was that Dirty Harry quote ? Something about everyone having an opinion ?

I would take his scholarship over your opinion any day of the week.

Notice the Dr at the front of his name.

Or are you more than an opinionated man.

Br Cornelius

Edited July 15, 2014 by Br Cornelius

[Earl.Of.Trumps 5,698]

Well, that's the opinion of Norman G. Finkelstein, an American who has never lived in Israel.

He has never been to Isreal. (not without trying).

He has rarely stepped outside of the USA.

But he has an opinion. Fair enough.

What was that Dirty Harry quote ? Something about everyone having an opinion ?

And you have never been to Auschwitz.

Your point?

[and then 48,163]

And you have never been to Auschwitz.

Your point?

I don't recall RG trying to pose as an expert about Auschwitz? This self hating bookworm has made a career from publicly attempting to convince anyone who will listen about how evil his own people are. I give no credence to anyone who NEVER admits that there is some good in everyone. It's like the old tradition within Hebrew juries that a unanimous verdict in a jury trial could not condemn a man. He had to have at least ONE person on the jury willing to believe him.

[jeem 344]

The world can turn against them as much as it likes. But they have said they will never burn again - alone. Seems fair enough to me.

Oh yes the crazy Samson option.Well as I have said earlier they will die and the world will remain so they should never consider that Samson option rather they should recognize a Palestinian state and try to coexist

[Yamato 13,197]

an American who has never lived in Israel.

Why would Norman Finkelstein live in Israel?

[Yamato 13,197]

I don't recall RG trying to pose as an expert about Auschwitz?

Andie you and Roofie are experts at one thing - selling the dirty work of Zionism to the sheeple.

[RoofGardener 17,505]

A nation cannot live as an Island.

Oh, I don't know. Jamaica, Antigua, Barbados, the Bahama's, the Falklands and - for that matter - the UK all seem to do so quite successfully

Yeah... OK... I know what you mean.

The more they are made pariah state - the more likely they will change their behaviour. No nation can live in state where they are hated by everyone.

Funnily enough, the good Doctor Finkelstein might disagree with the assumption behind that statement. He is a fervent critic of the BDS campaign, for example.

[Space Commander Travis 50,164]

I don't recall RG trying to pose as an expert about Auschwitz? This self hating bookworm has made a career from publicly attempting to convince anyone who will listen about how evil his own people are. I give no credence to anyone who NEVER admits that there is some good in everyone.

does that include Palis and Iranians?

[Br Cornelius 6,437]

I don't recall RG trying to pose as an expert about Auschwitz? This self hating bookworm has made a career from publicly attempting to convince anyone who will listen about how evil his own people are. I give no credence to anyone who NEVER admits that there is some good in everyone. It's like the old tradition within Hebrew juries that a unanimous verdict in a jury trial could not condemn a man. He had to have at least ONE person on the jury willing to believe him.

You confuse been a Jew with been a Zionist - Norman Feinstein has not and that makes him a better person than you here. He is part of a growing body of international Jews who condemn the zionists for their behaviour towards the Palestinians. As he points out criticism of Israel is growing strongest among American young Jews. You should really look beyond your own very narrow prejudices.

Br Cornelius

Edited July 16, 2014 by Br Cornelius

[RoofGardener 17,505]

Andie you and Roofie are experts at one thing - selling the dirty work of Zionism to the sheeple.

Oh Hush Yamato; I do NO such thing. You're just cranky because I keep puncturing some of your anti-Israeli balloons.

[Br Cornelius 6,437]

Oh yes the crazy Samson option.Well as I have said earlier they will die and the world will remain so they should never consider that Samson option rather they should recognize a Palestinian state and try to coexist

Invoking that crazy Sampson option would make Israel the largest killer of world Jews in the world since most Jews are not Israeli. Strange logic from a deranged nation.

Br Cornelius

[and then 48,163]

You confuse been a Jew with been a Zionist - RG has not and that makes him a better person than you here.

Br Cornelius

If Jew = Zionist then about half the population of Israel wouldn't fit the bill for being Jewish. Many Jews there hate the idea of Zionism yet they live in safety and prosperity due to the efforts of those who dreamed of a homeland for the Jew. RG may well be a better person than I but that has nothing to do with our personal beliefs on Zionism - or at least it shouldn't. You and Yam use the word as invective while I think of it honorably. It's a difference of opinion and history will decide who was

[Br Cornelius 6,437]

The foundation of Israel has made Jews living in the Middle East less secure. It has been counter productive for the average Jew. It has also been rersponsible for the growth of anti-semitism among those without the whit to distinguish between been a Jew and been a Zionist.

I corrected my last post - you should go back and read it AT.

Br Cornelius

Edited July 16, 2014 by Br Cornelius

[RoofGardener 17,505]

You confuse been a Jew with been a Zionist -

HAH

And THAT from Br "list of Zionists in Congress" Cornelius ?

Much Potcalling Kettleblackitude !!!

[and then 48,163]

Invoking that crazy Sampson option would make Israel the largest killer of world Jews in the world since most Jews are not Israeli. Strange logic from a deranged nation.

Br Cornelius

The Samson option isn't about a strategy of winning anything in combat. It is a simple message that the people of Israel will never be marched to their deaths again alone. At the point where such an act would be taken by Israel, it would not matter how many were going to be killed because there would no longer be a state. Unless you are saying that the world would rise up and slaughter Jews who were not in Israel? That would never happen according to your view of the world would it? Samson is guaranteed destruction of Israel's enemies AFTER the state is destroyed. There is nothing deranged about M.A.D. it kept us all alive through the cold war.

Edit to add - I recently listened to an audio book called THE LAST ISRAELIS it was about a submarine crew who were the last Israeli citizens alive after an Iranian nuclear strike and how they answered that attack. It was a very interesting (fictional) treatment of the Samson option.

Edited July 16, 2014 by and then

[Space Commander Travis 50,164]

i thought this was quite an interesting take on things, obviously it'll be dismissed as leftie Jew hating, as usual, but the argument is that Zionism, and the creation of the State of Israel, has actually played into the hands of the anti-Semites because it's given them a great opportunity to get all those pesky Jews off their hands and has essentially just created a big ghetto, and one that does a pretty good job of making itself very unpopular by its ferocious "everyone hates us but we don't care" polciies.

[Br Cornelius 6,437]

HAH

And THAT from Br "list of Zionists in Congress" Cornelius ?

Much Potcalling Kettleblackitude !!!

I guarantee that none of them have ever voted down an appropriation bill for Israeli aid - which makes them Zionist in my book. I guarantee that the majority form a caucus who have a voting strategy when it comes to middle eastern and Israeli policy decisions. i guarantee that if any one of them broke ranks with the Zionist lobby they would find their position fade away in short order.

Br Cornelius

Edited July 16, 2014 by Br Cornelius

[Br Cornelius 6,437]

The Samson option isn't about a strategy of winning anything in combat. It is a simple message that the people of Israel will never be marched to their deaths again alone. At the point where such an act would be taken by Israel, it would not matter how many were going to be killed because there would no longer be a state. Unless you are saying that the world would rise up and slaughter Jews who were not in Israel? That would never happen according to your view of the world would it? Samson is guaranteed destruction of Israel's enemies AFTER the state is destroyed. There is nothing deranged about M.A.D. it kept us all alive through the cold war.

Edit to add - I recently listened to an audio book called THE LAST ISRAELIS it was about a submarine crew who were the last Israeli citizens alive after an Iranian nuclear strike and how they answered that attack. It was a very interesting (fictional) treatment of the Samson option.

World Jewish population 14 million Jewish population of Israel 6 million.

I am saying that the Sampson option itself would directly kill more Jews than the destruction of Israel. Invoking the Sampson option would cause the immediate death of almost all world Jews - which constitute considerably more people than the population of Israel.

The Sampson option is designed to invoke a cascade of Nuclear attacks which would kill most of the world population. It is totally indiscriminate of the religion of its victims.

If Israel ceased to exist tomorrow - the Jewish race would still prosper across the world, and the religion would still exist in a thousand years time. Not so after the Sampson option.

Again - it is a gross mistake of logic to equate the Zionist state of Israel with world Jewry.

Br Cornelius

Edited July 16, 2014 by Br Cornelius

[and then 48,163]

World Jewish population 14 million Jewish population of Israel 6 million.

I am saying that the Sampson option itself would directly kill more Jews than the destruction of Israel. Invoking the Sampson option would cause the immediate death of almost all world Jews - which constitute considerably more people than the population of Israel.

The Sampson option is designed to invoke a cascade of Nuclear attacks which would kill most of the world population. It is totally indiscriminate of the religion of its victims.

If Israel ceased to exist tomorrow - the Jewish race would still prosper across the world, and the religion would still exist in a thousand years time. Not so after the Sampson option.

Again - it is a gross mistake of logic to equate the Zionist state of Israel with world Jewry.

Br Cornelius

So if I understand you you are saying that many more Jews would die due to the effects of an enlarging nuclear war? Very possibly. When the USSR and the US were primed all those years using the same exact logic for deterrence the same possibilities existed for the citizens of both countries. If the enemies of the Jewish state believe that Israel's leaders actually will pull down the enemy capitals along with their own then it hopefully makes the use of the option unnecessary. It is a drastic plan to be sure. Being faced with potential annihilation for centuries tends to make a people paranoid for good reason, no?

[and then 48,163]

So if I understand you you are saying that many more Jews would die due to the effects of an enlarging nuclear war? Very possibly. When the USSR and the US were primed all those years using the same exact logic for deterrence the same possibilities existed for the citizens of both countries. If the enemies of the Jewish state believe that Israel's leaders actually will pull down the enemy capitals along with their own then it hopefully makes the use of the option unnecessary. It is a drastic plan to be sure. Being faced with potential annihilation for centuries tends to make a people paranoid for good reason, no?

And without that Zionist state world Jewry is little more than a powerless wandering diaspora waiting to be uprooted again and again by their "hosts". Look at Europe today and see how stable the situation is for a Jew. Without Israel the Jew is homeless no matter how wealthy he might be.

[Br Cornelius 6,437]

And without that Zionist state world Jewry is little more than a powerless wandering diaspora waiting to be uprooted again and again by their "hosts". Look at Europe today and see how stable the situation is for a Jew. Without Israel the Jew is homeless no matter how wealthy he might be.

Hardly true considering that American Jews represent some of the highest earners in the nation - and the same is true for many European Jews. That doesn't look like a wandering diaspora to me, that looks like a very successful minority.

The Jews do not need Israel to secure their future - it threatens their future. this is precisely why most Jews want to live in America or Britain - not Israel.

Br Cornelius

Edited July 16, 2014 by Br Cornelius