Message from Dr Norman G. Finkelstein

[+and-then]

Hardly true considering that American Jews represent some of the highest earners in the nation - and the same is true for many European Jews. That doesn't look like a wandering diaspora to me, that looks like a very successful minority.

The Jews do not need Israel to secure their future - it threatens their future. this is precisely why most Jews want to live in America or Britain - not Israel.

Br Cornelius

Of course! I should remember - there have never been wealthy successful Jews subjected to pogroms before now! Of course their $ will keep them safe in their current country of residence. I wonder how many believed that even as they were boarding the trains.

[green_dude777]

The Samson option isn't about a strategy of winning anything in combat. It is a simple message that the people of Israel will never be marched to their deaths again alone. At the point where such an act would be taken by Israel, it would not matter how many were going to be killed because there would no longer be a state. Unless you are saying that the world would rise up and slaughter Jews who were not in Israel? That would never happen according to your view of the world would it? Samson is guaranteed destruction of Israel's enemies AFTER the state is destroyed. There is nothing deranged about M.A.D. it kept us all alive through the cold war.

Edit to add - I recently listened to an audio book called THE LAST ISRAELIS it was about a submarine crew who were the last Israeli citizens alive after an Iranian nuclear strike and how they answered that attack. It was a very interesting (fictional) treatment of the Samson option.

I'm just curious when "the people of Israel were marched to their deaths alone".

[+and-then]

I'm just curious when "the people of Israel were marched to their deaths alone".

No one stood up for them in all the governments on the globe when they were being slaughtered in WWII by the Nazis. If you are making the point that others died with them then I concede that but it was not an attempt to actually destroy an entire group of people in the case of Poles, Gypsies, etc.

[Yamato]

World Jewish population 14 million Jewish population of Israel 6 million.

I am saying that the Sampson option itself would directly kill more Jews than the destruction of Israel. Invoking the Sampson option would cause the immediate death of almost all world Jews - which constitute considerably more people than the population of Israel.

The Sampson option is designed to invoke a cascade of Nuclear attacks which would kill most of the world population. It is totally indiscriminate of the religion of its victims.

If Israel ceased to exist tomorrow - the Jewish race would still prosper across the world, and the religion would still exist in a thousand years time. Not so after the Sampson option.

Again - it is a gross mistake of logic to equate the Zionist state of Israel with world Jewry.

Br Cornelius

Amen, brother Cornelius.

When did world Jewry become a government? That is so deranged.

So Israel's gotta keep packing Israelis into the West Bank faster and faster!

[Yamato]

No one stood up for them in all the governments on the globe when they were being slaughtered in WWII by the Nazis. If you are making the point that others died with them then I concede that but it was not an attempt to actually destroy an entire group of people in the case of Poles, Gypsies, etc.

"They" aren't being slaughtered unless you're referring to Palestinians.

There's people being slaughtered in Africa and Asia right now dude. We never hear about those people. Oh they're not in the Bible, never mind

[RoofGardener]

.......There's people being slaughtered in Africa and Asia right now dude. We never hear about those people. Oh they're not in the Bible, never mind

Funnily enough, the people doing the slaughtering in Africa DO have something in common with HAMAS, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad. Care to guess what it might be ?

And Then has a point. In history, "the Jews" have never been able to rely on ANYBODY to protect them. They have been the victim of pogroms and massacres, and the authorities - without exception - just stood back.

Mind you, I can't see that happening anywhere in the Western world, in THIS day and age. Still, some memories must run deep.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

World Jewish population 14 million Jewish population of Israel 6 million.

I am saying that the Sampson option itself would directly kill more Jews than the destruction of Israel. Invoking the Sampson option would cause the immediate death of almost all world Jews - which constitute considerably more people than the population of Israel.

The Sampson option is designed to invoke a cascade of Nuclear attacks which would kill most of the world population. It is totally indiscriminate of the religion of its victims.

If Israel ceased to exist tomorrow - the Jewish race would still prosper across the world, and the religion would still exist in a thousand years time. Not so after the Sampson option.

Again - it is a gross mistake of logic to equate the Zionist state of Israel with world Jewry.

Br Cornelius

I have to think about this one, good brother.

America still continues to prosper 60 years after nuking two civilian cities in Japan

Not comparable...? maybe

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

And without that Zionist state world Jewry is little more than a powerless wandering diaspora waiting to be uprooted again and again by their "hosts". Look at Europe today and see how stable the situation is for a Jew. Without Israel the Jew is homeless no matter how wealthy he might be.

Part of the problem is, AT, the Jews mostly do not want to assimilate. They identify with being Jewish/Israeli.

Look at the Assyrian empire. when it collapsed, all the people became Iraqi. No big deal. But Jews don't do that

[+and-then]

Part of the problem is, AT, the Jews mostly do not want to assimilate. They identify with being Jewish/Israeli.

Look at the Assyrian empire. when it collapsed, all the people became Iraqi. No big deal. But Jews don't do that

True. Is that cause for them to be hated so uniformly throughout history? Is there another group which has retained it's specific culture and identity over 2 millennia? Surely you aren't saying that is a bad thing in and of itself?

[Yamato]

Funnily enough, the people doing the slaughtering in Africa DO have something in common with HAMAS, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad. Care to guess what it might be ?

And Then has a point. In history, "the Jews" have never been able to rely on ANYBODY to protect them. They have been the victim of pogroms and massacres, and the authorities - without exception - just stood back.

Mind you, I can't see that happening anywhere in the Western world, in THIS day and age. Still, some memories must run deep.

So if you care about it then why haven't you been applying your treatments to Africa for all these years? As a valid pretense for responsibility or interventionism over religion, that is negligent.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

True. Is that cause for them to be hated so uniformly throughout history? Is there another group which has retained it's specific culture and identity over 2 millennia? Surely you aren't saying that is a bad thing in and of itself?

"in and of itself" - No, not evil intentions.

You and I are both mutts and we identify "American". And proud of it, too. That's not how they think and that grates some people.

[shrooma]

No nation can live in state where they are hated by everyone.

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so, how do you explain France?!

;-)

[bee]

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Dr Norman Finkelstein......what a horrible man.

When the video began....the word respectable had been put in capitals...I straight away thought

oh yeah...? What's going on there that someone feels it necessary to emphasise this word..?

He was an aggressive man.....insulting the woman who was upset...

constantly jabbing his finger in an aggressive manner...what a prat...

Besides the fact that he was a horrible man.....one word could sum him up........traitor

His poor betrayed relatives must be turning in their graves........

If anyone deserves a good punch on the nose...that pathetic excuse of a man does.....

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Edited July 18, 2014 by bee

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

.

so, how do you explain France?!

;-)

LOL, mon amis! you talk about "my people" like that?

I "unfriend" you

just kiddin'

[bee]

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At least Finkelstein has got his comeuppance....

http://urbantimes.co...tein-interview/

There are not many academics in America who are as vilified as Norman Finkelstein. Once the lion of the Left giving lectures around the world, a scholar who authored nearly a dozen books on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, he is now a private figure on the margins of public debate. Having lost both his position within academia and more recently his supporters within the Palestine solidarity movement, his career has greatly diminished.

]If you don’t mind my asking, are you currently employed at the moment?[/b]

I no longer say I’m unemployed. I say I’m unemployable, it’s different. An unemployed suggests at a certain point in the future, you might be employed. That’s not the case with me. I’m unemployable and unfortunately that’s one of the bits of the web, in particular of Google. When I was younger, you applied for a job they typically asked for three references.

Nowadays people don’t ask for references. They just Google your name. And if you Google my name, all sorts of horrifying things come up: Holocaust denier, Nazi apologist, supporter of terrorism. And no responsible administrator in anything, forget about academia, quite literally even the post office. And that’s literal, that’s not poetic. Even for a job at the post office, they won’t consider you.

perhaps Iran or Turkey will have him........

He was also remarkably candid about his unemployment, the bitterness of losing his teaching post, and the possibility of teaching in Iran or Turkey.

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[+and-then]

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At least Finkelstein has got his comeuppance....

http://urbantimes.co...tein-interview/

perhaps Iran or Turkey will have him........

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Thanks for posting this. Right or wrong on my part, I have LOATHED this man since I first heard him speak. His friend and mentor Chomsky is even worse. I am disgusted by their treatment of the Palestinian issue but in Chomsky's case I actually feel he is a traitor to his nation. He NEVER has agreed with anything the US stands for. Yet he enjoys the fruits of his citizenship here. Finklestein's unemployability just shows the Left's lack of character and loyalty. I hope the man goes to Turkey - he should have a slobbering love affair with the anti semites there.

[Space Commander Travis]

And you support those kind of tactics to vilify anyone who goes against the policies of the Israeli government, do you, bee? I must say I'm surprised you seem to have no problem with that. Surely you know enough to realise that being against what the Israeli government does, or the policy of Zionism as a whole, isn't necessarily the same as being anti-Semitic.

Who is he a traitor to? The Jewish people? Might there not be a case for arguing that the present day Israeli government does not do their case much good by their ferociously (over-?) aggressive response to this kind of provocation.

[Space Commander Travis]

Thanks for posting this. Right or wrong on my part, I have LOATHED this man since I first heard him speak. His friend and mentor Chomsky is even worse. I am disgusted by their treatment of the Palestinian issue but in Chomsky's case I actually feel he is a traitor to his nation. He NEVER has agreed with anything the US stands for. Yet he enjoys the fruits of his citizenship here. Finklestein's unemployability just shows the Left's lack of character and loyalty. I hope the man goes to Turkey - he should have a slobbering love affair with the anti semites there.

Ah, all the boxes of emotional kneejerk response ticked there: "The Left", that great bogey to blame for everything, "if you hate Uncle Sam so much, why don't you go off to Iran/Russia/North Korea .... ", and yup, another big tick in the "Anti-semitism" box..

[bee]

And you support those kind of tactics to vilify anyone who goes against the policies of the Israeli government, do you, bee? I must say I'm surprised you seem to have no problem with that. Surely you know enough to realise that being against what the Israeli government does, or the policy of Zionism as a whole, isn't necessarily the same as being anti-Semitic.

Who is he a traitor to? The Jewish people? Might there not be a case for arguing that the present day Israeli government does not do their case much good by their ferociously (over-?) aggressive response to this kind of provocation.

I found Finkelstein to be a very unpleasant man in the OP vid.....

Admiral...tell me honestly....did you think he was someone to respect in that vid..?

Also did you notice in the quotes I posted that he hasn't endeared himself to his supporters

in the Palestine solidarity movement either....so perhaps he deserves the rejection he is getting...?

http://urbantimes.co...tein-interview/

Having lost both his position within academia and more recently his supporters within the Palestine solidarity movement, his career has greatly diminished.

This is obviously a very emotive subject and we all have our own opinions and take on it....

But in answer to your question....Yes, a traitor to the Jewish People...

.

[Leonardo]

Well, that's the opinion of Norman G. Finkelstein, an American who has never lived in Israel.

Just like the Zionists who after WWII pressured the US and the UN to create Israel, had never lived in what was then British Mandated Palestine.

So, why was their opinion more relevant or "correct" than Finkelstein's?

Edited July 18, 2014 by Leonardo

[+and-then]

Ah, all the boxes of emotional kneejerk response ticked there: "The Left", that great bogey to blame for everything, "if you hate Uncle Sam so much, why don't you go off to Iran/Russia/North Korea .... ", and yup, another big tick in the "Anti-semitism" box..

The man's record speaks for itself. If you believe in his cause you are no better than he. Call it whatever you feel it is. It is my opinion of him - and others - and I shrink from it not at all. And while you are looking down the nose intellectually at a man about twice your age I'd say arrogance enters into this - as it often does with you.

[Leonardo]

I found Finkelstein to be a very unpleasant man in the OP vid.....

Admiral...tell me honestly....did you think he was someone to respect in that vid..?

What in that video did he say that would make someone not respect him?

He simply pointed out that many play the "holocaust card" to justify acts by a State which, in any other context, would be met with world-wide condemnation. He is right.

Also did you notice in the quotes I posted that he hasn't endeared himself to his supporters

in the Palestine solidarity movement either....so perhaps he deserves the rejection he is getting...?

Which suggests Finkelstein is not "in bed with" the Palestinians or their ideology either, hence their hostility to some of what he says.

So, shock horror - someone tells the truth and gets condemned by both sides of the situation. That doesn't appear to me to be any reason to make Finkelstein out to be some sort of pariah.

[bee]

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@Leonardo.....I'm sure Finkelstein would be very pleased to have your fulsome support....he obviously needs it..

perhaps you could get him a job as well while you're at it.....

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[Leonardo]

bee,

If sarcasm is all you can resort to, then it would appear we have little more to discuss.

[bee]

bee,

If sarcasm is all you can resort to, then it would appear we have little more to discuss.

I'm happy with that......

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Edited July 18, 2014 by bee