Message from Dr Norman G. Finkelstein

[Guest]

Its rarely popular to speak the truth - so Finkelstein must have hit a nerve with our queen bee.

Br Cornelius

[Space Commander Travis]

I found Finkelstein to be a very unpleasant man in the OP vid.....

Admiral...tell me honestly....did you think he was someone to respect in that vid..?

Also did you notice in the quotes I posted that he hasn't endeared himself to his supporters

in the Palestine solidarity movement either....so perhaps he deserves the rejection he is getting...?

http://urbantimes.co...tein-interview/

This is obviously a very emotive subject and we all have our own opinions and take on it....

But in answer to your question....Yes, a traitor to the Jewish People...

.

Whether he's a pleasant man or not doesn't necessarily mean that he's a traitor to his people, does it?

[Space Commander Travis]

The man's record speaks for itself. If you believe in his cause you are no better than he. Call it whatever you feel it is. It is my opinion of him - and others - and I shrink from it not at all. And while you are looking down the nose intellectually at a man about twice your age I'd say arrogance enters into this - as it often does with you.

As it never does in your replies to me, which are never condescending in any way, you could never be accused of that. Anyway, who was I looking down my nose at intellectually?

[bee]

Its rarely popular to speak the truth - so Finkelstein must have hit a nerve with our queen bee.

Br Cornelius

Whether he's a pleasant man or not doesn't necessarily mean that he's a traitor to his people, does it?

no it doesn't - those two things are separate issues......and your point is....?

.

[Leonardo]

Whether he's a pleasant man or not doesn't necessarily mean that he's a traitor to his people, does it?

Who exactly are "his people", anyway?

Perhaps he simply identifies with all humanity, rather than with one particular group who consider themselves 'special', 'privileged' or 'separate' for some reason.

[TSS]

Perhaps he simply identifies with all humanity, rather than with one particular group who consider themselves 'special', 'privileged' or 'separate' for some reason.

I'm sure he does identify, to some degree...i'm not sure he understands though, given that culture and history are everyone's default settings (whether they agree with it or not). For me, identifying involves a degree of understanding....if he does understand humanity, he sure didn't convey that in that short clip.

[+and-then]

A nation cannot live as an Island. The more they are made pariah state - the more likely they will change their behaviour. No nation can live in state where they are hated by everyone.

Your Biblical doom prophecies are a denial of the actual reality Israel will face and the change that it will bring.

More detailed analysis

[media=]

[/media]

Br Cornelius

And until you understand (or admit) that for the Palestinians to achieve their desires means for the Israelis to be GONE from the land, you will never understand why this can never happen. You simply will not admit that Israel as a Jewish state and the Palestinina state cannot ever coexist. The PALESTINIANS will never allow it.

[Yamato]

The way Israel operates today, I would never allow it either. The policy is why Palestine is impossible. Israel has done everything to ensure that a Palestinian state can never exist.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Its rarely popular to speak the truth - so Finkelstein must have hit a nerve with our queen bee.

Br Cornelius

If this guys name was "Joe Smith", the zionists wouldn't act like they've been violated, for god's sake.

It's kinda' like there is "Jew truth" and "other truth" and you better know your place!

Sorry, y'all. there is only one truth and Finkelstein is onto it. My opinion.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

The way Israel operates today, I would never allow it either. The policy is why Palestine is impossible. Israel has done everything to ensure that a Palestinian state can never exist.

that would be the quote of the day! Good one, Yam

[bee]

And until you understand (or admit) that for the Palestinians to achieve their desires means for the Israelis to be GONE from the land, you will never understand why this can never happen. You simply will not admit that Israel as a Jewish state and the Palestinina state cannot ever coexist. The PALESTINIANS will never allow it.

Cheers....

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-13331522

Hamas is designated a terrorist organisation by Israel, the US, EU, Canada and Japan due to its long record of attacks and its refusal to renounce violence.

Under the group's charter, Hamas is committed to the destruction of Israel.

[Yamato]

You seem amazed at what 60 years of oppression can accomplish.

They refuse to "renounce violence" what kind of boobait is that? They don't renounce violence and they commit violence. At least they're honest. We renounce violence? We're violent as hell. Is saying one thing and doing the other the preferred course of action here? Is that what we're told to respect?

Putting down the list that the bureaucrats came up with (real scientific analysis, there), Israeli terrorism is perpetual while Hamas has words and hiccups.

[Space Commander Travis]

no it doesn't - those two things are separate issues......and your point is....?

.

Your point was you said that he was a traitor to his people, and he wasn't a very nice person. That sounds as if you were drawing a connection between the two things.

[bee]

You seem amazed at what 60 years of oppression can accomplish.

And you seem to be in denial of what hundreds of years of persecution can necessitate...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

]Persecution of Jews[/b] has occurred on many occasions and at widely different geographical locations. Persecution has been a major part of Jewish history, and it has affected the history and social development of the countries and societies in which the persecution occurred. Europe and the Middle East have been chief areas of persecution throughout the ages.

[Space Commander Travis]

Cheers....

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-13331522

he was talking about the Palestinians. Your link refers to HAMAS. Are you arguing that all Palestinians are HAMAS? Would you argue that all Sunni Muslims are ISIS? or,for that matter, that all Jewish people are Zionists?

[Space Commander Travis]

You seem amazed at what 60 years of oppression can accomplish.

They refuse to "renounce violence" what kind of boobait is that? They don't renounce violence and they commit violence. At least they're honest. We renounce violence? We're violent as hell. Is saying one thing and doing the other the preferred course of action here? Is that what we're told to respect?

Putting down the list that the bureaucrats came up with (real scientific analysis, there), Israeli terrorism is perpetual while Hamas has words and hiccups.

Does Israel renounce violence? Are they criticised for not doing so? Are they excused because their very existence is threatened? Could not the same be said for the Palestinians?

[bee]

he was talking about the Palestinians. Your link refers to HAMAS. Are you arguing that all Palestinians are HAMAS? Would you argue that all Sunni Muslims are ISIS? or,for that matter, that all Jewish people are Zionists?

Me thinks you are muddying the waters regarding the point brought up in that post Admiral......

and are avoiding this...

http://www.renewamer...ieckmann/090104

Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas, and now they are getting exactly what they voted for: A terrorist regime, provoking war with Israel, suicide bombers, shortages of food and medicine, socialism, poverty, and no hope for peace. They knew what Hamas represented when they voted for it. They are now reaping the consequences of their vote. They are not victims of Israeli aggression, they are accomplices and supporters of an Islamic terrorist organization.

.

[Space Commander Travis]

The same argument could be applied to any American citizen for voting for governments that insist on waging war in any part of the world where it suits their purposes, or indeed to the UK govt. that does exactly the same. Or indeed the Israelis for electing a government that keeps bombing civilians.

[Yamato]

And you seem to be in denial of what hundreds of years of persecution can necessitate...

http://en.wikipedia....ecution_of_Jews

People who were persecuted are allowed to oppress women and children? That's a recipe for disaster. Do we punish all white people for Hitler? That's what you're doing. Thankfully we only think that way over one small nation where we're actually morally comfortable enough to experiment on with these hideous double standards.

Jews aren't persecuted in my country. What about yours? That's what you're responsible for. Don't be so eager to send more British boys to die for whatever the hell they die for in the Middle East over the shat problems it's politically correct to have with Brown people.

[bee]

The same argument could be applied to any American citizen for voting for governments that insist on waging war in any part of the world where it suits their purposes, or indeed to the UK govt. that does exactly the same. Or indeed the Israelis for electing a government that keeps bombing civilians.

To debate and discuss 'things'......we have to reduce to specifics and single points for arguments sake..

otherwise there would be no discussion....

Each thread would just be...... "We're all a bit hopeless, aren't we."....with one reply..."yes"...

By the way....I am kind of shocked that you appear to be supportive of Hamas and it's aims...

.

[bee]

People who were persecuted are allowed to oppress women and children? That's a recipe for disaster. Do we punish all white people for Hitler? That's what you're doing. Thankfully we only think that way over one small nation where we're actually morally comfortable enough to experiment on with these hideous double standards.

In your previous post...you made a specific statement...I countered it with another specific statement...

now...as a debating tactic you ignore the original points made and bring in broad generalizations that

draw attention away from the fact that I countered your point successfully....

Jews aren't persecuted in my country. What about yours? That's what you're responsible for. Don't be so eager to send more British boys to die for whatever the hell they die for in the Middle East over the shat problems it's politically correct to have with Brown people.

I will forgive you for that last comment because I don't think you know me at all......

.

[Leonardo]

And you seem to be in denial of what hundreds of years of persecution can necessitate...

http://en.wikipedia....ecution_of_Jews

The persecutions highlighted almost universally happened in times when religious opinion and authority held sway. Thankfully that is no longer the case in most of the 'Western' world. Saying that, having borne the brunt of religious persecution for so long you'd think the Jews (or Zionists, to be more accurate) would have learned the lesson of history. Sadly, it appears that religious idiotology is immune to education.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Leonardo

[bee]

The persecutions highlighted almost universally happened in times when religious opinion and authority held sway. Thankfully that is no longer the case in most of the 'Western' world. Saying that, having borne the brunt of religious persecution for so long you'd think the Jews (or Zionists, to be more accurate) would have learned the lesson of history. Sadly, it appears that religious idiotology is immune to education.

Do you think that the State of Israel has the right to exist, Leonardo..?

That Israelis/Jews need a homeland..?

Or do you favour giving it to Islam..?

That's what it boils down to.

I am clear that my loyalties lie with Israel......

.

Edited July 19, 2014 by bee

[Space Commander Travis]

To debate and discuss 'things'......we have to reduce to specifics and single points for arguments sake..

otherwise there would be no discussion....

Each thread would just be...... "We're all a bit hopeless, aren't we."....with one reply..."yes"...

By the way....I am kind of shocked that you appear to be supportive of Hamas and it's aims...

.

Why don't you just go on and say I hate the Jews. Go on, it's the logical next step.

[bee]

Why don't you just go on and say I hate the Jews. Go on, it's the logical next step.

No I won't do that...

But I will say that sometimes you have to 'nail your colours to the mast'....

.