Malaysian Aircraft shot down over Ukraine

[Deleted]

actually, it is just propganda and you fools run around and cheer for war. Same **** different century. Die in honor for stupidity. (generally speaking to all people who think "their" country is right)

Edited July 22, 2014 by hellwyr

[Astra.]

actually, it is just propganda and you fools run around and cheer for war. Same **** different century. Die in honor for stupidity. (generally speaking to all people who think "their" country is right)

Can you be a little more specific on what you mean by your post hellwyr.... who are you referring to as fools ?

And ie: " who think their country" is right ?

I'm feeling a little confused

Edit to add - are you referring to the Ukrainian rebels ?

Edited July 23, 2014 by Astra00

[JJ50]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28429161

The US appears to be backtracking, I wonder why?

[Mr.United_Nations]

actually, it is just propganda and you fools run around and cheer for war. Same **** different century. Die in honor for stupidity. (generally speaking to all people who think "their" country is right)

what? No one here is cheering for war

[Mr.United_Nations]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-28429161

The US appears to be backtracking, I wonder why?

It was the rebels and not the Russians

[Wolffheart]

National day of greef here in the Netherlands.. my toughts go out to all who lost there loved ones.

I hope they find out how it happend and who pushed the button.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Wolffheart

[Deleted]

I am referring to the people, who instantly after the plane was shot down, claimed that Russia was responsible for the incident. Obama pointed his finger at Putin, I mean how unprosfessional, it could have been anyone, but Obama knows instantly that it was Putin who shot down the plane, I call that bull****. They didnt even bother to gather any evidence. Now after they spread rumors and claimed them to be true they'll put up a show of "gathering evidence", it is just basic war propaganda.

I don`t know who shot down the plane and I will never know. I don`t trust any government in this matter so I will propably never know. But what I see is that the world is changing. China invests in Asia and Africa and she builts up the infrustructure there and she is more welcomed and popular than other investors. Russia and the BRICS are trieing to get rid of the dollar, they are founding their own IMF and working towards more independence.

On The Other Side there is the U.S. who knows if they go through with their plans the dollar will soon collapse, no on will buy US bonds anymore since the dollar won't be the key currency anymore. The horrandous debts will not be accepted anymore and the econmy will crumble.

So I think the shot down plane is just too convient for soem people, now the U.S. and EU can proclaim new sanctions against Russia. They also can use the incident to heaten up the mood of the general public.

Anyway, politicians are playing their wardrums, and people are dancing to it. And anyone who dances to their music is a fool.

Edited July 23, 2014 by hellwyr

[Antilles]

H'm. Ronnie Regan's evil empire isn't sounding too far wrong anymore.

The US needs to keep out of it. The only country that isn't afraid of Putin and his tin pot regime is Australia and they're sticking it to him. Good for them. About time someone stood up to the KGB apparatchik.

[Leonardo]

I am referring to the people, who instantly after the plane was shot down, claimed that Russia was responsible for the incident. Obama pointed his finger at Putin, I mean how unprosfessional, it could have been anyone, but Obama knows instantly that it was Putin who shot down the plane, I call that bull****. They didnt even bother to gather any evidence. Now after they spread rumors and claimed them to be true they'll put up a show of "gathering evidence", it is just basic war propaganda.

I don`t know who shot down the plane and I will never know. I don`t trust any government in this matter so I will propably never know. But what I see is that the world is changing. China invests in Asia and Africa and she builts up the infrustructure there and she is more welcomed and popular than other investors. Russia and the BRICS are trieing to get rid of the dollar, they are founding their own IMF and working towards more independence.

On The Other Side there is the U.S. who knows if they go through with their plans the dollar will soon collapse, no on will buy US bonds anymore since the dollar won't be the key currency anymore. The horrandous debts will not be accepted anymore and the econmy will crumble.

So I think the shot down plane is just too convient for soem people, now the U.S. and EU can proclaim new sanctions against Russia. They also can use the incident to heaten up the mood of the general public.

Anyway, politicians are playing their wardrums, and people are dancing to it. And anyone who dances to their music is a fool.

While I do not disagree with your assessment that various politicians are using this tragedy to advance their own agendas, this applies not just to the "western politicians" such as Obama but also to Putin himself. He came out very quickly after the incident with a statement that the destruction of the aircraft was the fault of the Ukranian govt, and Russian sources also accused the Ukrainian military of firing the missile.

So, while your objection to Obama's politicking is fair enough, it would be balanced to add that Putin's politicking is just as objectionable - and inflammatory.

[Astra.]

I am referring to the people, who instantly after the plane was shot down, claimed that Russia was responsible for the incident. Obama pointed his finger at Putin, I mean how unprosfessional, it could have been anyone, but Obama knows instantly that it was Putin who shot down the plane, I call that bull****. They didnt even bother to gather any evidence. Now after they spread rumors and claimed them to be true they'll put up a show of "gathering evidence", it is just basic war propaganda.

I don`t know who shot down the plane and I will never know. I don`t trust any government in this matter so I will propably never know. But what I see is that the world is changing. China invests in Asia and Africa and she builts up the infrustructure there and she is more welcomed and popular than other investors. Russia and the BRICS are trieing to get rid of the dollar, they are founding their own IMF and working towards more independence.

On The Other Side there is the U.S. who knows if they go through with their plans the dollar will soon collapse, no on will buy US bonds anymore since the dollar won't be the key currency anymore. The horrandous debts will not be accepted anymore and the econmy will crumble.

So I think the shot down plane is just too convient for soem people, now the U.S. and EU can proclaim new sanctions against Russia. They also can use the incident to heaten up the mood of the general public.

Anyway, politicians are playing their wardrums, and people are dancing to it. And anyone who dances to their music is a fool.

Thanks Hellwyr....it will be interesting to see what the propaganda machine unfolds.

[JJ50]

It was the rebels and not the Russians

Or the Ukrainians, I wouldn't trust them either!

[Eldorado]

Why are they called 'black boxes' when they are orange? Were they formerly black?

[Deleted]

Of course, I am not a fan of Putin. Actually I really dislike Russia...... but I feel like Putin has absolutly no interest in a war, but at the same time I think that the "west" has more interest in a war if we consider how the power is shifting and what it would mean for the western powers. If Putin wanted a war he has more then enough reasons to justify it and I am sure that the Russian people feel the same way. He could say that the NATO broke their agreement when they expanded to Georgia and when they tried to recruit Ucraine , he also could say that the roket defensesystem is a threat to the national security, ...etc

Don't forget national security was a reason for the U.S. to bomb Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia......

And Russia doesnt have any interest to go to war with Ucraine, if she wanted she had more then enough opertunities to do so. The separatists wanted to join Russia but Russia declined. Of course Russia is sending them weaponery, but I want to remind you that this practise is common and almost every nation does it.

So why would Russia shoot down the airplane. It doesnt make sense to me.

Anyway all parties involved manipulate information and have their own agendas ....

Edited July 23, 2014 by hellwyr

[Astra.]

Why are they called 'black boxes' when they are orange? Were they formerly black?

Hi El..good question.

Found this...

http://guardianlv.com/2014/03/why-are-cockpit-voice-recorders-painted-orange-and-called-a-black-box/

[questionmark]

Of course, I am not a fan of Putin. Actually I really dislike Russia...... but I feel like Putin has absolutly no interest in a war, but at the same time I think that the "west" has more interest in a war if we consider how the power is shifting and what it would mean for the western powers. If Putin wanted a war he has more then enough reasons to justify it and I am sure that the Russian people feel the same way. He could say that the NATO broke their agreement when they expanded to Georgia and when they tried to recruit Ucraine , he also could say that the roket defensesystem is a threat to the national security, ...etc

Don't forget national security was a reason for the U.S. to bomb Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia......

And Russia doesnt have any interest to go to war with Ucraine, if she wanted she had more then enough opertunities to do so. The separatists wanted to join Russia but Russia declined. Of course Russia is sending them weaponery, but I want to remind you that this practise is common and almost every nation does it.

So why would Russia shoot down the airplane. It doesnt make sense to me.

Anyway all parties involved manipulate information and have their own agendas ....

You don't have to have an interest in war if you can have somebody else get the territory for you... see Crimea...

[questionmark]

in related news:

U.S. discloses intelligence on downing of Malaysian jet

The Obama administration, detailing what it called evidence of Russian complicity in the downing of a Malaysian airliner, on Tuesday released satellite images and other sensitive intelligence that officials say show Moscow had trained and equipped rebels in Ukraine responsible for the attack.

Senior U.S. intelligence officials cited sensors that traced the path of the missile, shrapnel markings on the downed aircraft, voiceprint analysis of separatists claiming credit for the strike, and a flood of photos and other data from social-media sites.

The officials also for the first time identified a sprawling Russian military installation near the city of Rostov as the main conduit of Russian support to separatists in Ukraine, describing it as a hub of training and weapons that has expanded dramatically over the past month. The officials said that tanks, rocket launchers and other arms have continued to flow into Ukraine even after the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which killed 298 civilians.

Read more

[seeder]

Do take 7 mins to listen about the 'propaganda'

[Deleted]

In my opnion it was a wise decision by Crimea to join Russia with regards to what is happening right now in eastern Ucraine. There arn`t any riots in Crimea as far as I can see compared to eastern Ucraine, which gets bombed 24/7. If Crimea stayed with Ucraine they propbaly would have suffered the same fate as eastern Ucraine does right now.

There are some groups in Crimea which wanted to remain with Ucraine, for example the Tartars, but I guess that after they have observed how the Ucraine government is treating the russian speaking minority even they prefer staying with Russia. But who knows. Anyway if I was a Crimean citizen I would be glad that I didnt stay with Ucraien, I mean who wants to live in a civil war.

[Mr.United_Nations]

ya can we keep of the propaganda stuff please? there maybe people visiting the site that might had family in the flight

[Rafterman]

Gee, I wonder why the Russian media would do this - perhaps because they know the Conspirasheeple will swallow it hook, line, and sinker perhaps?

http://www.komonews.com/news/national/Russian-media-spin-conspiracy-theories-on-Ukraine-crash-268150062.html

Russian media spin conspiracy theories on Ukraine crash

MOSCOW (AP) - An assassination attempt against Russian President Vladimir Putin. A desperate ploy to draw the West into the battle for Ukraine's east. A botched mission to commit mass murder against Russian citizens.

Russian news consumers are getting plenty of explanations for the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which killed 298 people. While they vary wildly in content, all point the finger at Ukraine. None admits the possibility that Russia may bear responsibility.

The story of the airline tragedy that is unfolding for Russians differs starkly from the one that people are following in the West. As U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry told American TV viewers that rebels shot down the plane with Russian weaponry, Russians were being fed a diet of scenarios about forces in Ukraine conspiring to commit an atrocity in the skies.

Yekaterina Andreyeva, one of Russia's most famous TV anchors, delved into one theory hours after news of the crash broke: Putin, traveling home from Brazil, passed along the same flight path as the Malaysian passenger jet less than one hour before it was hit - suggesting an assassination attempt.

"The presidential plane and the Malaysian Boeing crossed paths at the exact point and at the same flight level," said Andreyeva. "The shape of the plane and the length are absolutely similar, and their color would appear almost identical at such a distance."

By Friday morning, the assassination theory was replaced by other scenarios.

[bmk1245]

What Ministry of Defense of the RF have to say

I won't go into details about possibility of Ukrainian Su-25 being in the area.

I only want to point out wackiness that starts at ~24 min. They show screenshot of YT video , where they were able to read "str. Dniepropetrovskaya 34".

They are really desperate to paint themselves in white...

Some guys figured out that on the billboard in that place there is logo of "Bogdan" with words "National autodealer" above (link, in Russian, but pictures speak for themselves).

Edited July 23, 2014 by bmk1245

[seeder]

I think the best approach in situations like this, is to get your news from many sources, and wait for the investigations to be over, before anyone can blame anyone.

[Mr.United_Nations]

What Ministry of Defense of the RF have to say

I won't go into details about possibility of Ukrainian Su-25 being in the area.

I only want to point out wackiness that starts at ~24 min. They show screenshot of YT video , where they were able to read "str. Dniepropetrovskaya 34".

They are really desperate to paint themselves in white...

Some guys figured out that on the billboard in that place there is logo of "Bogdan" with words "National autodealer" above (link, in Russian, but pictures speak for themselves).

According to rebels they believe they shot down an AN-26, whicn contradicts this one

[keithisco]

Hi El..good question.

Found this...

http://guardianlv.co...ed-a-black-box/

That was an interesting if somewhat totally uninformed link. The "Black Box" recorders actually come in 3 variants:

1. The CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) only records voice in the cockpit, and verbal communications with ATC

2. The FDR (Flight Data Recorder) records important Flight data Acquisition parameters - engine data, control surface data, fuel data, Navigation data, sensor data)

3. The CVFDR (Cockpit Voice and Flight Data Recorder) records both of the above.

The 3rd variant is the only one that meets all of the FAA, and EASA requirements for aircraft (with 20+ passengers) flying within USA and European Controlled (EuroCAE) airspace.

Just for information...

[bmk1245]

According to rebels they believe they shot down an AN-26, whicn contradicts this one

Yeap. Separatists went into complete denial, to the point "Any idiot can post on our page" (its called "Newsletters from Strelkov Igor Ivanovych")

But, now... Ukraine rebel commander acknowledges fighters had BUK missile (Reuters). If not fake, ITS HUGE.

Edited July 23, 2014 by bmk1245