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RoofGardener

ISIS issues ultimatum to Christians

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Just Dave

Where does ISIS get funding,arms,people, i mean what the hell, there is army of doom being raised and no one is trying to stop, until it affects us all in some manner!

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kartikg

America or Europe shouldn't have any problems accommodating those Christians . They have opened their arms for Syria refugees America takes in lot of Mexicans.

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Space Commander Travis

Where does ISIS get funding,arms,people, i mean what the hell, there is army of doom being raised and no one is trying to stop, until it affects us all in some manner!

From wealthy people in the Middle East (some of them very influential figures in countries that are our Valued Allies).

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Earl.Of.Trumps

My, my, doesn't history repeat itself, eh?

The Christians went thru this with the Arabs, long ago, when the Arabs would tax anyone in the Levant who was not Muslim. Of course, many converted. About the only exception was in norther Lebanon in the mountainous areas where the tax collectors could not easily get to, and that is why Lebanon was mostly Christian until many many Muslim Palestinians were pushed out of Palestine in '47 and '67.

So, I see terms like "radical" being tossed around, I see angry rhetoric, and general distaste for those ISIS dudes.

Let me say this, The "Christians" per sa, have been screwing with the Muslims for a long long time, going back to the many many crusades, the total genocide of Muslims in Spain, the totally screwing the Kurds of their homeland by carving it and distributing it to Turkey, Iran, Iraq and others - I mean what the heck is that all about? - the taking of Palestine thru Neocolonialism of the Great White Righteous Christian Buwhanas, where war is constantly being waged ever since.

And you all wonder why the radicals amongst Muslims have lost patience with the Great White peace-loving Christians?

How many of you acted with the same outrage when you witnessed the Great White Christian powers in the UN sit back in glee when they carved up Palestine and sent droves of European killer bees into the area..? anyone??

You touched the tarball, enjoy your chaos.

EDIT: Please read my sig;

If you want to apologize to Jews for WWII, give them some of your land, not some of ours

Do you think Ahmedinejad was kidding...? They think we suck, and for damn good reason

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps

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Space Commander Travis

EDIT: Please read my sig;

If you want to apologize to Jews for WWII, give them some of your land, not some of ours

Do you think Ahmedinejad was kidding...? They think we suck, and for damn good reason

I've seen it said recently that the creation of the State of Israel was in fact the triumph of anti-Semitism, as it created a ghetto on a grand scale where everywhere in Europe could pack their Jewish populations off to, saying "Well, now you've got a land of your own, so off you go then". Yes, it was better than the Nazis' solution, obviously, but it saved the European countries having to face up to the consequences of what they'd allowed to happen, and allowed them to brush it under carpet. And establishing it where it did guaranteed that it would never have a moment's peace except through a more or less perpetual state of aggressive self-defense, which would just guarantee a perpetual state of aggression with everywhere around it. i think Ahmedinejad did have a point there.

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Earl.Of.Trumps

I've seen it said recently that the creation of the State of Israel was in fact the triumph of anti-Semitism, as it created a ghetto on a grand scale where everywhere in Europe could pack their Jewish populations off to, saying "Well, now you've got a land of your own, so off you go then". Yes, it was better than the Nazis' solution, obviously, but it saved the European countries having to face up to the consequences of what they'd allowed to happen, and allowed them to brush it under carpet. And establishing it where it did guaranteed that it would never have a moment's peace except through a more or less perpetual state of aggressive self-defense, which would just guarantee a perpetual state of aggression with everywhere around it. i think Ahmedinejad did have a point there.

Yup. The people in the ME are not stupid. They know what happened, they know the old "look what happened to the Jews in WWII" - attitude is what keeps us hugging the Israelis - no matter WHAT.

The "solution" of putting European Jews into Palestine worked for the Euros, but obviously not the Muslims in the ME.

And the West clearly could care less. They only care about what works for them.

I asked RoofGardener in here what he would do if the Arab League of Nations declared that Britain would be cut in half to give a home to the Kurds. That ends a hedache for middle east people and obviously creates a huge one for Brits.

What if the nations in the Arab league had the military might to pull it off and the same slacker attitude of not caring what it would do to British people?

And that's what it always boils down to, who has the mightier military, not who is right.

Any other Brits in here want to take a crack at it?

As Rodney King once famously proclaimed, "can't we all just get along"!

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and then

yes, the papers printed a map showing that they'd taken over Turkey, India and Greece and parts of Spain and Italy and named it The Islamic State. The papers didn't seem to think that this was a deluded fantasy, they repeated it as if it was now official.

* In other thoughts, if one was inclined towards the conspiracy theory one might think how convenient it is for ISIS that all the attention has been switched away from them so conveniently first by HAMAS kicking off once again, and then by the Ukraine affair. :mellow:

But remember, Admiral, if THEY BELIEVE it then it IS a reality for them.

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and then

Yup. The people in the ME are not stupid. They know what happened, they know the old "look what happened to the Jews in WWII" - attitude is what keeps us hugging the Israelis - no matter WHAT.

The "solution" of putting European Jews into Palestine worked for the Euros, but obviously not the Muslims in the ME.

And the West clearly could care less. They only care about what works for them.

I asked RoofGardener in here what he would do if the Arab League of Nations declared that Britain would be cut in half to give a home to the Kurds. That ends a hedache for middle east people and obviously creates a huge one for Brits.

What if the nations in the Arab league had the military might to pull it off and the same slacker attitude of not caring what it would do to British people?

And that's what it always boils down to, who has the mightier military, not who is right.

Any other Brits in here want to take a crack at it?

As Rodney King once famously proclaimed, "can't we all just get along"!

You really don't or won't understand it will you? Israel cannot be dislodged from that land. That isn't based on my belief or yours but on the reality of their military ability. To push them from that land would cause a nuclear conflagration. Obviously people just don't believe they are capable of going to this extreme in defense of their homes and families. Funny though, I don't notice any nations queuing to be the first to launch an assault. And the UN? Seriously?
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meryt-tetisheri

My, my, doesn't history repeat itself, eh?

The Christians went thru this with the Arabs, long ago, when the Arabs would tax anyone in the Levant who was not Muslim. Of course, many converted. About the only exception was in norther Lebanon in the mountainous areas where the tax collectors could not easily get to, and that is why Lebanon was mostly Christian until many many Muslim Palestinians were pushed out of Palestine in '47 and '67.

So, I see terms like "radical" being tossed around, I see angry rhetoric, and general distaste for those ISIS dudes.

Let me say this, The "Christians" per sa, have been screwing with the Muslims for a long long time, going back to the many many crusades, the total genocide of Muslims in Spain, the totally screwing the Kurds of their homeland by carving it and distributing it to Turkey, Iran, Iraq and others - I mean what the heck is that all about? - the taking of Palestine thru Neocolonialism of the Great White Righteous Christian Buwhanas, where war is constantly being waged ever since.

And you all wonder why the radicals amongst Muslims have lost patience with the Great White peace-loving Christians?

How many of you acted with the same outrage when you witnessed the Great White Christian powers in the UN sit back in glee when they carved up Palestine and sent droves of European killer bees into the area..? anyone??

You touched the tarball, enjoy your chaos.

EDIT: Please read my sig;

If you want to apologize to Jews for WWII, give them some of your land, not some of ours

Do you think Ahmedinejad was kidding...? They think we suck, and for damn good reason

You seem to confuse religious belief with ethnicity & nationality. The Christians of Mosul are also Arabs, Iraqis, who just follow another religion. I do not see how would giving the Iraqi Christians the ultimatum of converting, exile ( coupled with the confiscation of all their possessions except the clothes they're wearing), or being slaughtered, can be explained or rationalized by the history of France & England during the last century! How will their exile or beheading right the wrongs done to Kurds & Palestinians? There are no excuses, acceptable or otherwise, for ISIS' sheer hatred of, and inability to accept, the Other. First it was Christians, the next to follow are women: Baghdady has issued an order that all women be circumcised https://twitter.com/virtualactivism/status/490956917549060096/photo/1

How can FGM be explained away as a symptom of 'radicals' outrage with the Palestinian crisis? How can you explain that ISIS & similar groups have been slaughtering fellow Muslims, & fellow Arabs due to their 'anguish' over colonialism, when the never tried to "struggle" against the Great White Christian? All their victims ARE Arabs.

The concept of Ummah does not exist in Christianity. Killing Iraqi Christians does not work as retaliation for UK or French Christians. The reverse side of your argument is called Islamophobia. Both are irrational and unacceptable. Either ISIS are murderous terrorists following a radicalized inhumane ideology, or they are enraged total dolts who believe that killing their neighbor in Iraq is retaliation for crimes committed last century, by the grandfathers of foreign people living on different continents, will somehow avenge his victimized cousin and great uncle!

The excusing & tolerance of these radical ideologies & practices is what messed up the Middle East for decades to come. ISIS is a terrorist murderous group, and they have done more to misrepresent Islam to the world than anything ME conspiracy theorists can dream up. As for the silence of International Media and the World's political powers, it is nothing less than ignominious.

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Earl.Of.Trumps

You really don't or won't understand it will you? Israel cannot be dislodged from that land.

Well, obviously not now. You notice the one billion Muslims refuse to give up the struggle, right?

That isn't based on my belief or yours but on the reality of their military ability. To push them from that land would cause a nuclear conflagration. Obviously people just don't believe they are capable of going to this extreme in defense of their homes and families. Funny though, I don't notice any nations queuing to be the first to launch an assault. And the UN? Seriously?

Maybe it will be after our time. But if the UN does not intercede, I believe a dirty bomb or worse is in the offing

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Earl.Of.Trumps

You seem to confuse religious belief with ethnicity & nationality. The Christians of Mosul are also Arabs, Iraqis, who just follow another religion. I do not see how would giving the Iraqi Christians the ultimatum of converting, exile ( coupled with the confiscation of all their possessions except the clothes they're wearing), or being slaughtered, can be explained or rationalized by the history of France & England during the last century!

I never said it was right, I never said it was a good thing. But I am pretty sure they are sick of Western people, obviously mostly Christian, screwing with them.

You think the Kurds are happy? the Palestinians? And look at the long long history of Crusades that brought vicious murdered into the middle east, for pretty much the same reasons, to control Jerusalem and other holy lands.

How will their exile or beheading right the wrongs done to Kurds & Palestinians? There are no excuses, acceptable or otherwise, for ISIS' sheer hatred of, and inability to accept, the Other. First it was Christians, the next to follow are women: Baghdady has issued an order that all women be circumcised https://twitter.com/...9060096/photo/1

How can FGM be explained away as a symptom of 'radicals' outrage with the Palestinian crisis? How can you explain that ISIS & similar groups have been slaughtering fellow Muslims, & fellow Arabs due to their 'anguish' over colonialism, when the never tried to "struggle" against the Great White Christian? All their victims ARE Arabs.

Explain that to relatives of thousands of victims of 911

The concept of Ummah does not exist in Christianity. Killing Iraqi Christians does not work as retaliation for UK or French Christians. The reverse side of your argument is called Islamophobia. Both are irrational and unacceptable. Either ISIS are murderous terrorists following a radicalized inhumane ideology, or they are enraged total dolts who believe that killing their neighbor in Iraq is retaliation for crimes committed last century, by the grandfathers of foreign people living on different continents, will somehow avenge his victimized cousin and great uncle!

one thing they have done, you have carefully not mentioned.

They did form a caliphate and that is all about self determination. that's what they want. the fact that they do things that appear irrational is not that much to the point. And believe me, I am not chosing their side at all. I just made my opinion known. Do you think ISIS would be where they are today if Husein was still in power? not a CHANCE.

The excusing & tolerance of these radical ideologies & practices is what messed up the Middle East for decades to come. ISIS is a terrorist murderous group, and they have done more to misrepresent Islam to the world than anything ME conspiracy theorists can dream up. As for the silence of International Media and the World's political powers, it is nothing less than ignominious.

Never said I was an ISIS fan.

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Yamato

So who did we all figure out we're supporting in Iraq? If Hussein was still in power, this war wouldn't have started that's a good point.

Edited by Yamato

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meryt-tetisheri

I never said it was right, I never said it was a good thing. But I am pretty sure they are sick of Western people, obviously mostly Christian, screwing with them.

You think the Kurds are happy? the Palestinians? And look at the long long history of Crusades that brought vicious murdered into the middle east, for pretty much the same reasons, to control Jerusalem and other holy lands.

Explain that to relatives of thousands of victims of 911

one thing they have done, you have carefully not mentioned.

They did form a caliphate and that is all about self determination. that's what they want. the fact that they do things that appear irrational is not that much to the point. And believe me, I am not chosing their side at all. I just made my opinion known. Do you think ISIS would be where they are today if Husein was still in power? not a CHANCE.

Never said I was an ISIS fan.

I am still questioning the link you are making between the persecution of Iraqi Christians and the "Western" powers' legacy in ME. Your whole argument is based on the premise that these Iraqis somehow share the responsibility and historical guilt of Europeans since they happen to be Christians; despite the fact that their history in Iraq precedes both Islam and the Western Christianity

I did not 'carefully' avoid mentioning the declaration of a caliphate, issuing a couple of passports, car license plates, or painting a jet in black does not constitute a state. A caliphate should have a sizable following among Muslims world-wide, not just the Caliph's immediate group, and those who were cowed into submission. No country or large group outside Iraq swore allegiance to Baghdady. As a matter of fact he was roundly mocked. The question that should be asked is "self-determination" by whom, and for whom. ISIS is hoping to create a religious totalitarian regime that can impose the will and ideology of a small group on a helpless majority. As for the Kurds, they are amassing in preparation to fight ISIS, so much for the Caliphate!

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Yamato

I am still questioning the link you are making between the persecution of Iraqi Christians and the "Western" powers' legacy in ME.

The link could be nothing more than guilt by association. I don't think he agrees with Christian persecution, does he? And I think he recognizes the anti-Western sentiments there, don't you?

Maybe we should get the group-think mentality knife out again and chop these people up into even smaller groups. Group-think mentality (i.e. prejudice between groups) will cause more instability and unrest and get even more people killed.

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and then

Has anybody recognized their micro-empire as a nation-state yet? Right now the world just sees a gang of conquering thugs engaging in practices designed to appeal to fundamentalists in the Islamic world.

But of which will gain them little legitimacy in the eyes of the Occidental world.

I think the idea of a Caliphate cannot be so casually dismissed. Very likely this will come to nothing this time. But at some point, when the time is ripe it will be possible for them all to join forces, at least to accomplish some common goal for awhile. It is a danger that must be considered.

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and then

Well, obviously not now. You notice the one billion Muslims refuse to give up the struggle, right?

Maybe it will be after our time. But if the UN does not intercede, I believe a dirty bomb or worse is in the offing

I'm betting on the "or worse". And rest assured that when a mass casualty event occurs there it is going to be revenged in an exponential way.

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Space Commander Travis

I think the idea of a Caliphate cannot be so casually dismissed. Very likely this will come to nothing this time. But at some point, when the time is ripe it will be possible for them all to join forces, at least to accomplish some common goal for awhile. It is a danger that must be considered.

that would necessitate turning the entire Islamic world over to their way of thinking first, though, before they could even start to present a unified front. And surely what we're seeing in Iraq & Syria shows that this is a very long way away yet. They'd have to win the inter-Islamic civil war first (and so you can see why Western intelligence services might not want these to end any time soon). Edited by Admiral Rhubarb

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RavenHawk

What's racist is when some people blame all Muslims for the actions of these extremists radicals. Keep in mind that the extremists also wish to do harm to other Muslims who don't/won't embrace their radical position. I think it's more like we've become accustomed to the extremist radicals behaving in a horrible barbaric manner.

Is being aware being racist? One can be aware without hate. I don’t know who coined the phrase but they stated that moderates are sleeper extremists. What is meant by that? Islamic extremists are acting in precisely the proper manner as laid out in the Quran under dar al-Harb, which is very pleasing in the eyes of Allah. We must understand that concept. Those (moderates) living under dar al-Islam are also acting in a proper manner which is very pleasing to Allah. A key to understanding Islam is that it is dualistic. If Christian extremists committed some atrocity, all of Christendom would not be responsible because the extremists don’t drive the Christian bus. Christian society will naturally deal with its extremists. On the other hand, the Islamic extremists drive the Muslim bus. And all you hear from the moderates is lip service condemning their actions. We’ve seen the rise of the Taliban, al Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood, Wahhabism, and now ISIS. The likes of a Gaddafi or Saddam would have only held back these groups for awhile. Iran embraces it. This is a movement that is growing and more like-minded groups will rise. And from what population do you think it will come from?

It is like with the Native American during the 1880s. The sign of the buffalo returning, the White Buffalo brought on the Ghost Dance which was a signal of a great uprising that would kill the Whiteman. All Native Americans were inspired to rise up. Some were more active than others. But in the end, that was defeated. The promise of the 12th Imam or Mahdi is just on the horizon. This is psychological pressure that will work on the moderate. Since most of us are non Muslims, we do not hear the call as Muslims do. This is why we hear of moderates committing acts of violence and the people that knew them comment how they were such a good person and that they don’t understand why they did it. But somewhere along the line they became radicalized because they heard the words of their faith (dar al-Harb). Therefore, it is not racist to blame all Muslims for the actions of extremists. Islam is in need of major reform and it won’t happen if the most moderate of moderates are not pressured. We may find that Israel’s actions against the Palestinian will be the blueprint to defend the non-Muslim world and lay pressure on dar al-Islam to reform. The world can be patient no longer. The world cannot sit by as a Sunni/Shiite Reformation spills over in warfare. It won’t stay within their regions.

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and then

that would necessitate turning the entire Islamic world over to their way of thinking first, though, before they could even start to present a unified front. And surely what we're seeing in Iraq & Syria shows that this is a very long way away yet. They'd have to win the inter-Islamic civil war first (and so you can see why Western intelligence services might not want these to end any time soon).

This is true. But a situation might develop that could galvanize these groups to cooperate for a period of time and come together under the aegis of one "Caliph" It is a possibility.

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Earl.Of.Trumps

I am still questioning the link you are making between the persecution of Iraqi Christians and the "Western" powers' legacy in ME. Your whole argument is based on the premise that these Iraqis somehow share the responsibility and historical guilt of Europeans since they happen to be Christians; despite the fact that their history in Iraq precedes both Islam and the Western Christianity

I did not 'carefully' avoid mentioning the declaration of a caliphate, issuing a couple of passports, car license plates, or painting a jet in black does not constitute a state. A caliphate should have a sizable following among Muslims world-wide, not just the Caliph's immediate group, and those who were cowed into submission. No country or large group outside Iraq swore allegiance to Baghdady. As a matter of fact he was roundly mocked. The question that should be asked is "self-determination" by whom, and for whom. ISIS is hoping to create a religious totalitarian regime that can impose the will and ideology of a small group on a helpless majority. As for the Kurds, they are amassing in preparation to fight ISIS, so much for the Caliphate!

Before we start out here, meryt-tetisheri, one issue I forgot to mention in the last post.

You mentioned that Baghdady/ISIS is going to start FGM (female genitial mutilation), aka female circumcision, and is practiced in about 30+ nations in Africa alone, you may understand that many Western nations, like my USA, have no problem at all in favoring MGM, also called "circumcision". So I won't start a war with ISIS for doing the same thing to their children as my America does to their children, just a different gender, but a child is still a child.

Now, you are wondering how I make my link to the Christians in Iraq or Egypt, or anywhere else, and Western Christians. Just because the Iraq Christians are of a different ethnicity than most Americans does not mean the Americans and other Western Christian nations won't be highly sympathetic to the Christians in the ME. Think of it like two football teams, because that is how they behave.

Muslims get slaughtered, *few* in the West give a hoot!

Christians get slaughtered, and watch the angry rhetoric and high heat come belching out of the religious ones. Bigoted, no? people are people! what is this "Go, Team" mentality?

You know this happens to Jews in other ME countries, right? At one time, Tehran boasted 40,000 Jews (Sephardi, I am sure), and now they are down to about half, 20,000. They leave due to harassment. Although the Iran government is always very watchful for the Jews, you cannot stop all acts of bigotry. Same as in my US. things happen that should not.

The people's in the ME have similar feelings about Christians, too. After all, who has been leading the Crusades in the ME, the Christians, or the Jews? The Christians, and Coptic Christians in Egypt have been taking it hard for many years now.

Is it bigoted thinking? of *course* it is. I am not favoring it, I am just predicting it because I understand how the ME people feel, and have known how they feel for a long time. The Christians that are being prosecuted *ARE* innocent, they are victims of a religious war, much like the Muslims in Palestine were/are victims of religious cleansing, not because they are guilty/bad, but because they are Muslim.

Another example of being able to guess about what ISIS might do. Were you really shocked to learn that they are imposing Sharia Law and FGM? I'm not. It's quite likely amongst the most extreme, and if al Qaeda says ISIS is bad, then ISIS is *real* bad.

Hope that clears it up, and good meet, meryt-tetisheri

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Mr.United_Nations

Where does ISIS get funding,arms,people, i mean what the hell, there is army of doom being raised and no one is trying to stop, until it affects us all in some manner!

they have business branch i believe

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meryt-tetisheri

Before we start out here, meryt-tetisheri, one issue I forgot to mention in the last post.

You mentioned that Baghdady/ISIS is going to start FGM (female genitial mutilation), aka female circumcision, and is practiced in about 30+ nations in Africa alone, you may understand that many Western nations, like my USA, have no problem at all in favoring MGM, also called "circumcision". So I won't start a war with ISIS for doing the same thing to their children as my America does to their children, just a different gender, but a child is still a child.

Now, you are wondering how I make my link to the Christians in Iraq or Egypt, or anywhere else, and Western Christians. Just because the Iraq Christians are of a different ethnicity than most Americans does not mean the Americans and other Western Christian nations won't be highly sympathetic to the Christians in the ME. Think of it like two football teams, because that is how they behave.

Muslims get slaughtered, *few* in the West give a hoot!

Christians get slaughtered, and watch the angry rhetoric and high heat come belching out of the religious ones. Bigoted, no? people are people! what is this "Go, Team" mentality?

You know this happens to Jews in other ME countries, right? At one time, Tehran boasted 40,000 Jews (Sephardi, I am sure), and now they are down to about half, 20,000. They leave due to harassment. Although the Iran government is always very watchful for the Jews, you cannot stop all acts of bigotry. Same as in my US. things happen that should not.

The people's in the ME have similar feelings about Christians, too. After all, who has been leading the Crusades in the ME, the Christians, or the Jews? The Christians, and Coptic Christians in Egypt have been taking it hard for many years now.

Is it bigoted thinking? of *course* it is. I am not favoring it, I am just predicting it because I understand how the ME people feel, and have known how they feel for a long time. The Christians that are being prosecuted *ARE* innocent, they are victims of a religious war, much like the Muslims in Palestine were/are victims of religious cleansing, not because they are guilty/bad, but because they are Muslim.

Another example of being able to guess about what ISIS might do. Were you really shocked to learn that they are imposing Sharia Law and FGM? I'm not. It's quite likely amongst the most extreme, and if al Qaeda says ISIS is bad, then ISIS is *real* bad.

Hope that clears it up, and good meet, meryt-tetisheri

Re FGM or MGM, the difference is in having a ruler ordering it, having the operation imposed, without choice or option. I'm not surprised. I would expect anything from those who pose for pictures with the heads of their victims, but I still find it shocking. I'm afraid the day we stop being shocked, when we give in to being desensitized by atrocities & 'cleansing', is the day they become rampant

As for the football team mentality, yes I agree with you. My point has been that ISIS is driven by religious bigotry, not nationalistic aspirations or frustrations. The distinction must be made. Fortunately, they are (& represent) only a small minority of Muslims. The reaction in the West to the persecution of ME Christians is really overrated, with the exception of very few grumblings, no one gives a hoot either!

Nice talking to you too

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bee

Is being aware being racist? One can be aware without hate. I don't know who coined the phrase but they stated that moderates are sleeper extremists. What is meant by that? Islamic extremists are acting in precisely the proper manner as laid out in the Quran under dar al-Harb, which is very pleasing in the eyes of Allah. We must understand that concept. Those (moderates) living under dar al-Islam are also acting in a proper manner which is very pleasing to Allah. A key to understanding Islam is that it is dualistic. If Christian extremists committed some atrocity, all of Christendom would not be responsible because the extremists don't drive the Christian bus. Christian society will naturally deal with its extremists. On the other hand, the Islamic extremists drive the Muslim bus. And all you hear from the moderates is lip service condemning their actions. We've seen the rise of the Taliban, al Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood, Wahhabism, and now ISIS. The likes of a Gaddafi or Saddam would have only held back these groups for awhile. Iran embraces it. This is a movement that is growing and more like-minded groups will rise. And from what population do you think it will come from?

It is like with the Native American during the 1880s. The sign of the buffalo returning, the White Buffalo brought on the Ghost Dance which was a signal of a great uprising that would kill the Whiteman. All Native Americans were inspired to rise up. Some were more active than others. But in the end, that was defeated. The promise of the 12th Imam or Mahdi is just on the horizon. This is psychological pressure that will work on the moderate. Since most of us are non Muslims, we do not hear the call as Muslims do. This is why we hear of moderates committing acts of violence and the people that knew them comment how they were such a good person and that they don't understand why they did it. But somewhere along the line they became radicalized because they heard the words of their faith (dar al-Harb). Therefore, it is not racist to blame all Muslims for the actions of extremists. Islam is in need of major reform and it won't happen if the most moderate of moderates are not pressured. We may find that Israel's actions against the Palestinian will be the blueprint to defend the non-Muslim world and lay pressure on dar al-Islam to reform. The world can be patient no longer. The world cannot sit by as a Sunni/Shiite Reformation spills over in warfare. It won't stay within their regions.

Thanks for a thoughtful and informative post....

Re underlined....an interesting consideration...

.

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shrooma

Those loveable scamps ISIS have been branding their version of Peace and Tolerance in a city they control.

No doubt the UN will rise to their feet to condemn this.

.

i bet the letter they write to ISIS will be very stern indeed RG....

.

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shrooma

This section of the article is particularly sad:

Mosul, once home to diverse faiths, had a Christian population of around 100,000 a decade ago, but waves of attacks on Christians since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion to topple Saddam Hussein have seen those numbers collapse.

The resident of Mosul who saw the Islamic State announcement estimated the city's Christian population before last month's militant takeover at around 5,000. The vast bulk of those have since fled, leaving perhaps only 200 in the city, he said.

I wonder what conditions those that fled are now living in?

.

i bet they're not half as bad as the conditions they've left behind OS....

.

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