Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
libstaK

Can the West Live with ISIS?

363 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

bee

Technically ISIS is a creation of west and in future they might serve west's false flag operation

here we go.....

are you already preparing to absolve ISIS of any responsibility for their actions...?

.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yamato

Since we've been the looneys with the Sunnis for the past 10 years, giving despicable regimes like the House of Saud all the cover they need to abuse their women and teach hatred to schoolchildren (among the complaints you make yourself incidentally but only for certain politically correct groups), I'd say that ISIS obviously isn't motivated primarily by religion either. They don't care who we're sanctioning in the world. They know they'll put us in bed with Shi'ite Jihad whether they win the Battle of Iraq or not. Because that's how flaky and meaningless our bureaucratic relationships that you've been indoctrinated to either ignore or support really are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yamato

Technically ISIS is a creation of west and in future they might serve west's false flag operation

And our chicken-hawks staffing our party ranks will be relentlessly sniffing for such an "opportunity" to present itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yamato

Its important to remember that Christ is important to Muslims too. When you realise that you start to understand what's going on in Syria/Iraq.

I think that Jesus Christ is more important to Muslims than to Christians. Christians in America seem to view their religion more for its influence on the norms of their society. While that's not necessarily a bad thing, it does replace the real meaning of their religion, for which if they had no prophet, would not exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
keithisco

I think it is behoven of us all to take the threat seriously and be prepared to counter it. If not militarily, then certainly Politically. 40 or 50 years down the line when mineral oil use will be a thing of the past (hopefully) then much of the funding for fundamentalist aggression will be very limited, and its ability for rapid expansion diminished.

Unfortunately, in the here and now, there is a lot of oil money available through the capture of refining and extraction facilities, and a black market in selling these products - along with the very iniquitous black market in arms sales.

The 4th Caliphate included several western nations (eg Spain and Portugal amongst others) and I don't think anyone would want to be a neighbour to this new breed of vicious Caliphate (far removed from the original Caliphates).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yamato

I think it is behoven of us all to take the threat seriously and be prepared to counter it. If not militarily, then certainly Politically. 40 or 50 years down the line when mineral oil use will be a thing of the past (hopefully) then much of the funding for fundamentalist aggression will be very limited, and its ability for rapid expansion diminished.

Unfortunately, in the here and now, there is a lot of oil money available through the capture of refining and extraction facilities, and a black market in selling these products - along with the very iniquitous black market in arms sales.

The 4th Caliphate included several western nations (eg Spain and Portugal amongst others) and I don't think anyone would want to be a neighbour to this new breed of vicious Caliphate (far removed from the original Caliphates).

The oil money and the Caliphate are in cahoots. If we didn't need oil they wouldn't need a Caliphate. "Fundamentalist aggression". What about corporatist aggression? Why does that get excused? How about simply aggression, period? Where is this PC hierarchy of aggression? Show me the Column A and Column B.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yamato

The world will try to ignore it and underestimate it. It will continue with horrendous atrocities but the world will only be intent on charging Israel with Hamas' war crimes. It will eventually infiltrate the Iraqi army and will take Baghdad. From there it will absorb Lebanon and Jordan. Iraq and Jordan would normally be able to defeat them militarily, however due to the dualism in Islam, ISIS has the answer to defeat loyalty to country. And Iraq and Jordan will not join forces because neither thinks they have too. Will Hezbollah join or be eradicated? How 'bout Hamas? When will Iran get involved? Will they, knowing that they would be susceptible to the "inside job"? Are we seeing a resurgence of an Alamut like power? Once Jordan goes, there's only desert to protect Riyadh and then would the Wahabbists join in and overthrow the Saud family? Would the world get involved then to protect the oil resources?

Europe would be in a mess. They'll look elsewhere for oil and they aren't going to get it from Russia. Then they'll turn to Canada and because Obama hasn't given the go ahead for Keystone, Canada will be more than happy to send their oil to Europe instead, then we'd be screwed and then we would need the presence in the Gulf to secure the Oil competing with China. But then China would send troops and they'll get slaughtered. Oh how much easier it would have been if Carter had just supported the Shah. The Invasion of Iraq gave us a great opportunity to change things around and we've squandered it. It's going to be an ugly mess.

Good grief, put that crystal ball down Nostradamus. What a tangled web of nuck nuck.

If Carter had just not done a lot of things. Carter invented bilking all Americans of annual billions of taxpayer dollars to Egypt and Israel, and you can't let it go.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sir Smoke aLot

Does the Qurayza (sp) tribe ring any bells? They were defeated by Muhammad and asked to be allowed to leave their land and wealth but were massacred instead. By Muhammad's men, while he watched. No, Sir, these guys are emulating their prophet sure enough. I'm glad you at least want to distance Islam from what these "men" are doing. Can you imagine a world where they ruled?

You mention that info about Qurayza tribe but you forget to mention the conflict between prophets followers and Meccans, also what role did that Jewish tribe have in that time - that is very important to mention because the way you talk about it makes prophets people look like blood thirsty animals which is not true. So, as i have said already, this is a long story to be represented only as a 'slaughter by Muslims' - murders did happen but its just one of many similar events that have taken place around the globe in those dark times in past.

[edit] Well not really similar to other events, Muslims did not kill children and females. There is talk about possibility that one woman was killed but that can't be confirmed.

Edited by Sir Smoke aLot
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sir Smoke aLot

I think you'll find fundies inside the British, USA, Israeli and Saudi Governments are playing games in Syria. We've all been arming, supplying and training ISIS militants. Now the beast has unleashed itself we're starting to get a little concerned. Who says ISIS are going to be the pawn in the Messianic games the fundies want them to be?

Time will tell, but i am sure that ISIS is just a pawn which is providing entertainment to western aristocracy.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mr.United_Nations

You mention that info about Qurayza tribe but you forget to mention the conflict between prophets followers and Meccans, also what role did that Jewish tribe have in that time - that is very important to mention because the way you talk about it makes prophets people look like blood thirsty animals which is not true. So, as i have said already, this is a long story to be represented only as a 'slaughter by Muslims' - murders did happen but its just one of many similar events that have taken place around the globe in those dark times in past.

[edit] Well not really similar to other events, Muslims did not kill children and females. There is talk about possibility that one woman was killed but that can't be confirmed.

Well they have been raping women and using children as child soliders

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TSS

My eldest sister has been watching the planes leave Lakenheath in the last hour or so.......best you get running ISIS, the clock has run out for some of you!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mr.United_Nations

My eldest sister has been watching the planes leave Lakenheath in the last hour or so.......best you get running ISIS, the clock has run out for some of you!

They targeted a position attacking the Kurdish area

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TSS

They targeted a position attacking the Kurdish area

I'm guessing there is more to come over the next hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and then

here we go.....

are you already preparing to absolve ISIS of any responsibility for their actions...?

.

Apparently there is absolute innocence of any wrongdoing on the part of ANYONE else in this world beyond Israel and the US. Mention false flag and your argument is golden :lol:
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and then

You mention that info about Qurayza tribe but you forget to mention the conflict between prophets followers and Meccans, also what role did that Jewish tribe have in that time - that is very important to mention because the way you talk about it makes prophets people look like blood thirsty animals which is not true. So, as i have said already, this is a long story to be represented only as a 'slaughter by Muslims' - murders did happen but its just one of many similar events that have taken place around the globe in those dark times in past.

[edit] Well not really similar to other events, Muslims did not kill children and females. There is talk about possibility that one woman was killed but that can't be confirmed.

You are correct - the women and boys who hadn't reached puberty were spared - to live as slaves but the men were beheaded. About 600 of them. Defenseless and defeated asking for mercy. Explain that any way you care to Sir, but it's an atrocity and those today like ISIS use it as justification - that they are following the prophet.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sir Smoke aLot

Well they have been raping women and using children as child soliders

If you can please point me to link about that i would love to learn more about it, so far - from what i have read and concluded my self, such thing was highly opposed to teaching of prophet Muhammad which was respected at least in his time.

You are correct - the women and boys who hadn't reached puberty were spared - to live as slaves but the men were beheaded. About 600 of them. Defenseless and defeated asking for mercy. Explain that any way you care to Sir, but it's an atrocity and those today like ISIS use it as justification - that they are following the prophet.

I don't say that such acts aren't atrocities, of course they are - it's just that a lot of things happened in that time especially at the place that you have mentioned here. Its hard to be sure and very much is unknown about what happened there but betrayal was a spark that lead to possible slaughter.

As for ISIS, i can't be surprised no matter what i hear about them. Criminals. I got a feeling that we use ISIS to make bad picture of Islam, instead of using Islam to make bad picture of ISIS.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phaeton80

Does the Qurayza (sp) tribe ring any bells? They were defeated by Muhammad and asked to be allowed to leave their land and wealth but were massacred instead. By Muhammad's men, while he watched. No, Sir, these guys are emulating their prophet sure enough. I'm glad you at least want to distance Islam from what these "men" are doing. Can you imagine a world where they ruled?

The Banu Qurayza, a Jewish tribe in Medina, formed an alliance with the Muslim community led by Islamic Prophet Muhammad. This community soon faced a siege from Meccan forces who were in a state of war with the Muslims. According to the treaty between them,[citation needed] the Banu Qurayza would not take part in the battle against the Meccans, but neither would they attack the Muslims. The community survived the siege, but the Banu Qurayza betrayed the alliance by colluding with enemy forces.

The Banu Qurayza where subsequently besieged for 25 days until they surrendered and faced a judgement for their breach.[1] One of Muhammad's companions, Sa'd ibn Mua'dh, who was also a member of an tribe allied to the Banu Qurayza and a former Jew, was agreed upon to act as judge. He ruled that "the men should be killed, the property divided, and the women and children taken as captives". Some sources claim that this sentence was derived from Jewish testimony and law. Muhammad approved of the ruling, calling it fair as it was according to the Jew's own laws,.[7][8][9][10][11] According to Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad said to Sa'd : "You have given the judgment of Allah above the seven heavens".[12] All male members of the tribe who had reached puberty were beheaded.[2][13] According to Daniel C. Peterson and Martin Lings, this judgment coincided with the law of Moses as stated in Deuteronomy 20:10-14.[14][15] The Muslim jurist Tabari quotes 600-900 being executed.[1][3] The Sunni hadith do not give the number killed, but state that all males were killed and 1 woman (the 1 woman is according to Sunan Abu Dawud).[16] The rest of the woman and children were sold in exchange for weapons and horses, according to Islamic sources.[1]

According to Ibn Kathir, Quranic verses 33:26-27 and 33:9-10 are about the attack against the Banu Qurayza.[2][17][18]

Deuteronomy 20:10-15

10When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

You think David, Joshua or Gideon did not order thesame 'brutal' acts in war, dont you. Even when they have not spared women and children, you would look upon that as 'just'.

The cities Joshua conquered were placed under the herem, the ban in holy war when everything that breathed, animal and human, was utterly destroyed. In this instance Joshua's God was a warrior god who advised the wholesale slaughter of the Canaanite population. Joshua complied.
After his victory over the Midianites Gideon returned to Succoth and tortured the elders of the city, because they had refused to give him and his men the provisions they needed. Retribution and enforcement were necessary in this harsh situation, Gideon believed.

http://www.bible-arc...gy.info/war.htm

Why? Because Muhammad is 'part of the wrong religion'. He - Muhammad - is 'Them', David, Joshua and Gideon are 'Us'. Thats why.

Enter the.. 'Hypocrit' The religious zaelot. Passionately pointing his little biased finger at all that does not conform with his indoctrinated world view - while excusing any and all that does.

Edited by Phaeton80
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phaeton80

You kidding?..live with ISIS?...they need to totally irradicate that bunch of non-human child butchering SOB"S

I agree with you 100%. But Im curious, what is your opinion on Israel in context of 'child butchering'?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/08/world/middleeast/israel-supporters-try-to-come-to-terms-with-killing-of-children-in-gaza-strip.html?_r=0

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.583928

Operation Cast Lead: 352 children killed

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TSS

I agree with you 100%. But Im curious, what is your opinion on Israel in context of 'child butchering'?

http://www.nytimes.c...strip.html?_r=0

http://www.haaretz.c...efense/1.583928

Operation Cast Lead: 352 children killed

Plenty of threads on Israel, can't you leave it over there. ISIS are big enough to leave a thread about them without it going into another debate on the tactics of Israel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DeWitz

Will it be possible to save many thousands of mountain-bound refugees with a couple of airdrops of food and water? Will it be possible to limit US airstrikes to a couple of ISIS captured tanks or artillery pieces? Or will this military and humanitarian activity re-insert the US in the morass of Iraq? These and other questions may be answered sooner rather than later, given Obama's speech last night and today's headlines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phaeton80

Plenty of threads on Israel, can't you leave it over there. ISIS are big enough to leave a thread about them without it going into another debate on the tactics of Israel.

Apologies. I have no intention to take this anywhere, the question only served to quench my curiosity.

Edited by Phaeton80
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Earl.Of.Trumps

http://online.wsj.co...rsal-1407470613

Apparently Obi Wan decided to use some of the force to help out. He has airdropped supplies and water to the stranded Christian refugees and has authorized some airstrikes to defend Irbil. Thank God he didn't just let those Christians be slaughtered.

How positively White of him!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bee

You kidding?..live with ISIS?...they need to totally irradicate that bunch of non-human child butchering SOB"S

I agree with you 100%.

You might find yourself in an awkward position in the near future, Phaeton80...

If you agree that ISIS needs to be totally irradicated etc etc

In this article they ask whether ISIS is actually operating in Gaza right now...

http://www.inquisitr...the-gaza-strip/

According to an article by Gatestone Institute, there is photographic evidence showing that the terrorist group Islamic State of Iraq – also known as “The Islamic State” or ISIS – has begun operating in the Gaza Strip. Palestinian Authorities and Israeli security sources have said they are convinced some of the followers of ISIS in the Gaza Strip are responsible for some of the recent rocket attacks on Israel.

That would be a twist in the tale...

apparently ....

ISIS believes that Hamas is “too moderate” and is not doing enough to achieve the destruction of Israel

perhaps there is a power struggle going on within Gaza....between Hamas and ISIS?

Or a secret alliance....?

In this article ISIS explains that the time isn't right yet to attack Israel....

but that...

http://www.israelnat...51#.U-UKT5t0wdV

In a statement a spokesperson for the group, Nidal Nuseiri reaffirmed that conquering "Bayt el-Maqdis" (Jerusalem) and destroying the State of Israel is central to the group's "jihad", or holy war.

However, he pointed out that ISIS has been taking a systematic approach in its campaign, and outlined six specific stages it said needed to be fulfilled before taking on Israel.

This post isn't intended to take the topic away from the OP's main question....

But I do think it's relevant as a reply...after Eclectic Reverb and Phaeton's posts....

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phaeton80

An interesting, rational reflection on the created circumstances that facilitated the cultivation of this extremist cult..

[media=]

[/media] Edited by Phaeton80

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Earl.Of.Trumps

Interesting post, Bee.

ISIS hasn't got the chance of a snowball in hell. But I admit, they do have ballz!

I became a bitter isolationist after America's last two BOGUS wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The last thing I would ever want now is to fight another unfunded, 15 year unwinable war in some godforsaken part of the planet

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.