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libstaK

Can the West Live with ISIS?

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Earl.Of.Trumps

An interesting, rational reflection on the created circumstances that facilitated the cultivation of this extremist cult..

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$$Trillions spent by the US/England to destabilize Iraq, and in the vacuum, ISIS people took to the leadership of the region.

That's TWO, now, counting the Islamic State of Iran, which clearly the US/UK created, as well.

Endless tinkering, endless wars, endless insanity belching from Washington/London

We should all celebrate the diversity of Chaos!

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the-Unexpected-Soul

An interesting, rational reflection on the created circumstances that facilitated the cultivation of this extremist cult

oh my god, Iraq war costed 1.7 trillion, is that why the dept ceiling was raised to 16 trillion in 2011 after it was 14 trillion

Edited by the-Unexpected-Soul

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LEGIONS

ISIS is getting theirs today...please sign up the USA is on back order but will fill your desire as soon as it is feasible ...show the arms dealers the money ..we are having a sale

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bee

An interesting, rational reflection on the created circumstances that facilitated the cultivation of this extremist cult..

I was against the Iraq war, the destruction of Libya and the interference in Syria...

I think Hussein, Gaddafi and Assad were keeping the lid on the extremists in their countries..

IMO...it was madness to open up the power vacuum that ISIS is now exploiting.

.

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Mr.United_Nations

How can ISIS and Hamas work together? Hamas is backed by Iran where as Iran is against ISIS

"Salafists such as ISIS believe that only a legitimate authority can undertake the leadership of jihad, and that the first priority over other areas of combat, such as fighting against non-Muslim countries, is the purification of Islamic society. For example, when it comes to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, since ISIS regards the Palestinian Sunni group Hamas as apostates who have no legitimate authority to lead jihad, it regards fighting Hamas as the first step toward confrontation with Israel.[98]"

"SIS's ideology originates in the branch of modern Islam that aims to return to the early days of Islam, rejecting later “innovations” in the religion which it believes corrupt its original spirit. It condemns later caliphates and the Ottoman empire for deviating from what it calls pure Islam and hence has been attempting to establish its own caliphate.[93] However, there are some Sunni scholars, Zaid Hamid, for example, and even Salafi and jihadi muftis such as Adnan al-Aroor and Abu Basir al-Tartusi, who say that ISIS and related terrorist groups are not Sunnis at all, but Kharijite heretics serving an imperial anti-Islamic agenda"

Hamas are Sunni's where as ISIS isn't

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

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Yamato

Plenty of threads on Israel, can't you leave it over there. ISIS are big enough to leave a thread about them without it going into another debate on the tactics of Israel.

Okay let's talk about the tactics of ISIS. They're not attacking Israel, the self proclaimed target of Islamist terrorists.

Just about every thread on this forum is ranting and whining about Islam. Why doesn't anyone ever cordon this herd into the Religion board where it belongs when the only thing of substance to discuss a hundred thousand times a year about a Geographical Region is how bad the religion is there. Nobody else ever seems to notice that, and why is that?

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LEGIONS

ISIS is meeting the hammer of whatever god they wish to call it but it sure does resemble the USA military fighters jets

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and then

If you can please point me to link about that i would love to learn more about it, so far - from what i have read and concluded my self, such thing was highly opposed to teaching of prophet Muhammad which was respected at least in his time.

I don't say that such acts aren't atrocities, of course they are - it's just that a lot of things happened in that time especially at the place that you have mentioned here. Its hard to be sure and very much is unknown about what happened there but betrayal was a spark that lead to possible slaughter.

As for ISIS, i can't be surprised no matter what i hear about them. Criminals. I got a feeling that we use ISIS to make bad picture of Islam, instead of using Islam to make bad picture of ISIS.

I see what you are saying now. I am speaking here ONLY about those who do violence in the name of the prophet. Obviously that is a small % of those who ascribe to Islam. But let's face it Sir, these guys seem CONVINCED that they are following the steps of the prophet because of his reported actions. They don't care about it's historical context - only that it is written.

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and then

You think David, Joshua or Gideon did not order thesame 'brutal' acts in war, dont you. Even when they have not spared women and children, you would look upon that as 'just'.

Why? Because Muhammad is 'part of the wrong religion'. He - Muhammad - is 'Them', David, Joshua and Gideon are 'Us'. Thats why.

Enter the.. 'Hypocrit' The religious zaelot. Passionately pointing his little biased finger at all that does not conform with his indoctrinated world view - while excusing any and all that does.

As I said to Sir Smoke Alot - I understand the historical context and the fact that the brutality of that age explains why they did what they did. You seem to be saying that ISIS, in using ancient scripture to justify slaughter, are in some way excused? I don't really understand your point. And with respect to your simplification of us v them I answer that for a person who has no real faith it is easy to look at all faiths the same. Time will tell who (if any) are correct. Until then perhaps judging those faiths on what fruit they produce in the here and now is a better measure?

I do not know of any groups using bible scripture to justify the slaughter thousands of innocents in the most brutal ways. Zealots bent on murder can use anything as a justification but I'm speaking of organized efforts, scale of execution. Try as you might you will have to dig far into the past to compare the two religions evenly for this kind of behavior.

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and then

Will it be possible to save many thousands of mountain-bound refugees with a couple of airdrops of food and water? Will it be possible to limit US airstrikes to a couple of ISIS captured tanks or artillery pieces? Or will this military and humanitarian activity re-insert the US in the morass of Iraq? These and other questions may be answered sooner rather than later, given Obama's speech last night and today's headlines.

Probably not. To turn the tide my guess is that it would take insertion of a fully combat ready airborne unit - probably division in strength - with supporting armor. The Kurds are basically on their own but the airpower - if truly employed with gusto - can make it damned hot for these scum.

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Yamato

As I said to Sir Smoke Alot - I understand the historical context and the fact that the brutality of that age explains why they did what they did. You seem to be saying that ISIS, in using ancient scripture to justify slaughter, are in some way excused? I don't really understand your point. And with respect to your simplification of us v them I answer that for a person who has no real faith it is easy to look at all faiths the same. Time will tell who (if any) are correct. Until then perhaps judging those faiths on what fruit they produce in the here and now is a better measure?

I do not know of any groups using bible scripture to justify the slaughter thousands of innocents in the most brutal ways. Zealots bent on murder can use anything as a justification but I'm speaking of organized efforts, scale of execution. Try as you might you will have to dig far into the past to compare the two religions evenly for this kind of behavior.

Forget ancient history. Let's focus on the past 70 years when all the problems started. Children of Zionist terrorist bombing victims are still alive. Where's their justice at?

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Yamato

ISIS hasn't got the chance of a snowball in hell.

They have as big a snowball as the US does with whatever the hell it is we're trying to accomplish over there.

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TSS

Okay let's talk about the tactics of ISIS. They're not attacking Israel, the self proclaimed target of Islamist terrorists.

Just about every thread on this forum is ranting and whining about Islam. Why doesn't anyone ever cordon this herd into the Religion board where it belongs when the only thing of substance to discuss a hundred thousand times a year about a Geographical Region is how bad the religion is there. Nobody else ever seems to notice that, and why is that?

Maybe no one noticed it because on the first page of this section alone the threads are split pretty much 50/50 between pro israeli threads against the alternative of wider ranging issues concerning the middle east. Within those threads opinion seems pretty evenly divided...(sometimes swaying one way and sometimes swaying the other). So, to answer your question, it probably hasn't been noticed because it's difficult to notice something you just made up.

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Mattaponi

killing is not the way to go for either side however that is all we can do.it requires to much grit ..to simply tell all involved the truth as they do not wish tp hear their fairy tail become dismantled

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Phaeton80
As I said to Sir Smoke Alot - I understand the historical context and the fact that the brutality of that age explains why they did what they did. You seem to be saying that ISIS, in using ancient scripture to justify slaughter, are in some way excused?

Erm, no. What I 'seem to be saying' is that you are suffering from a rabid case of hypocricy. A trait often found in 'the end justifies the means' type of fanatics.. In fact, Id wager one would find thesame hypocricy within the lines of ISIS. Committing, or excusing all sorts of criminal acts 'in the name of G*d'.

Concerning the favoured fruits analogy; you have been blindsided to such an extent you wouldnt know what the origin of any fruit is if your life depended on it, sir. Merely my meaningless opinion, obviously.

Edited by Phaeton80

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Yamato

Maybe no one noticed it because on the first page of this section alone the threads are split pretty much 50/50 between pro israeli threads against the alternative of wider ranging issues concerning the middle east. Within those threads opinion seems pretty evenly divided...(sometimes swaying one way and sometimes swaying the other). So, to answer your question, it probably hasn't been noticed because it's difficult to notice something you just made up.

Yeah there is no anti-Islamic sentiment here, no sir, I just made that up. :blink:

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TSS

Yeah there is no anti-Islamic sentiment here, no sir, I just made that up. :blink:

Yes there is. You said just about every thread was whining about *muslims though, which isn't true.

*I assume you refer to the religion as a whole, since you said "Why doesn't anyone ever cordon this herd into the Religion board where it belongs when the only thing of substance to discuss a hundred thousand times a year about a Geographical Region is how bad the religion is there."...I see very few people criticise the entire religion of a huge geographical area, which is probably why your complaint hasn't been noticed before.

Edited by The Sky Scanner
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Yamato

Yes there is. You said just about every thread was whining about *muslims though, which isn't true.

*I assume you refer to the religion as a whole, since you said "Why doesn't anyone ever cordon this herd into the Religion board where it belongs when the only thing of substance to discuss a hundred thousand times a year about a Geographical Region is how bad the religion is there."...I see very few people criticise the entire religion of a huge geographical area, which is probably why your complaint hasn't been noticed before.

That is THE central theme of a poster here I could name that you apparently haven't even noticed yet. Unbelievable. Would you like to take an inventory on this together? That'll help us to determine who's the one making it up.

To begin any such accounting exercise, we need to get our definitions straight. For instance a "Muslim" is one who practices Islam.

I'd be an echo cave of a "very few people" around here and blame every problem on Christians and Christianity but I like to think I'm just a little bit more enlightened than that.

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TSS

That is THE central theme of a poster here I could name that you apparently haven't even noticed yet. Unbelievable. Would you like to take an inventory on this together? That'll help us to determine who's the one making it up.

To begin any such accounting exercise, we need to get our definitions straight. For instance a "Muslim" is one who practices Islam.

I'd be an echo cave of a "very few people" around here and blame every problem on Christians and Christianity but I like to think I'm just a little bit more enlightened than that.

AT you mean, of course i've noticed him. That's one poster - so what? one poster doesn't represent a majority opinion, he is stating his opinion. So what's your point?

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RoofGardener

That is THE central theme of a poster here I could name that you apparently haven't even noticed yet.

Who on EARTH could Yamato be referring to here ? :unsure2:

Wait.. it's ME, isn't it ? :D

To begin any such accounting exercise, we need to get our definitions straight. For instance a "Muslim" is one who practices Islam.

Stuff and nonsense. For example.... ummm.......

No, wait, Yamato is correct on this one :P

I'd be an echo cave of a "very few people" around here and blame every problem on Christians and Christianity but I like to think I'm just a little bit more enlightened than that.

Oh I don't know. As an example, you seem to pour blame onto the Israeli's for their actions, without ever considering the forces arrayed against them as being a contributory factor for their behaviour, or the ethical/moral stance of those forces.

Pot, Kettle.

Mote, Eyes, beholding thereof. :blink:

Edited by RoofGardener

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Mattaponi

thats is the point to not express your opinion or surely not the facts

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TSS

Who on EARTH could Yamato be referring to here ? :unsure2:

Wait.. it's ME, isn't it ? :D

Stuff and nonsense. For example.... ummm.......

No, wait, Yamato is correct on this one :P

Oh I don't know. As an example, you seem to pour blame onto the Israeli's for their actions, without ever considering the forces arrayed against them as being a contributory factor for their behaviour, or the ethical/moral stance of those forces.

Pot, Kettle.

Mote, Eyes.

Oh it's you is it? I assumed it was and then, sorry and then.

Edited by The Sky Scanner
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Earl.Of.Trumps

I see what you are saying now. I am speaking here ONLY about those who do violence in the name of the prophet. Obviously that is a small % of those who ascribe to Islam. But let's face it Sir, these guys seem CONVINCED that they are following the steps of the prophet because of his reported actions. They don't care about it's historical context - only that it is written.

If I recall 'and then', your view of how the European Jews got all of Palestine was a miracle of God, a completion of God's prophecy. No?

THat puts you in the same category as though wishing to kill in the name of a prophet.

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Mattaponi

E.O.T. is correct in the thought process ...it must be according to the laws of the forum right

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and then

Oh it's you is it? I assumed it was and then, sorry and then.

No problem...and I'm sure it IS meself he's referring to. He and I have been round the world and back again practically from the day I first found UM. I've grown tired of the vitriol and don't attempt to converse with him any longer. The point about WHERE the defense of Israel is undertaken seems a bit silly because it really wouldn't matter. :) When newcomers to this site see the evidence of who is being rude and who isn't, they'll decide who to listen to if they are open minded.

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