Ancient artifacts that are 100% not hoaxes?

[Argonaut]

I'm new to these forums, but I'm especially interested in Ancient mysteries/artifacts etc. There seems to be a lot of stories of hoaxes on here, it seems to go hand in hand with the whole field of ancient artifacts that don't fit into the general accepted view of history. But as I was reading some of the threads a question occurred to me which is this, what are the ancient artifacts which are 100% not fake? not hoaxes? which do not fit into the accepted narrative of history but at the same time known to be authentic?

[seeder]

I'm new to these forums, but I'm especially interested in Ancient mysteries/artifacts etc. There seems to be a lot of stories of hoaxes on here, it seems to go hand in hand with the whole field of ancient artifacts that don't fit into the general accepted view of history. But as I was reading some of the threads a question occurred to me which is this, what are the ancient artifacts which are 100% not fake? not hoaxes? which do not fit into the accepted narrative of history but at the same time known to be authentic?

The Antikythera machine is a good start

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcnews

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

I guess the closest think would be the Antikythera mechanism. It is much more sophisticated than other instruments from that time, but there is no new and super advanced technology involved, just very good craftmanship and knowledge of astronomy.

http://en.wikipedia....hanism#Accuracy

EDIT: I guess great minds think alike seeder.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Noteverythingisaconspiracy

[bubblykiss]

The Baghdad Battery comes to mind.

With a bit of research and critical thinking it is easy to identify items that warrant further research.

[keithisco]

The Iron Pillar of Delhi (link to wiki: http://en.wikipedia....pillar_of_Delhi ) was considered until relevantly recently, as an unexplained wonder because it showed no sign of rusting. It is certainly not a hoax but the inscriptions on it have never been subject to serious scrutiny (apart from one).

Some Ooparts seem to defy purpose, such as the Baghdad Battery, often presented as a source of electricity. (just spotted Bubblykiss' response - small minds seldom differ

Edited August 12, 2014 by keithisco

[bubblykiss]

The funny thing is I was considering the Iron Pillar of Delhi.....but opted out of going with her.

Mind you I am enthralled to false documents that present false history as reality.....so.....

[Argonaut]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm of course aware of the Baghdad Battery, and the Antikythera machine (although I'd never heard of the Iron Pillar of Delhi before). What's interesting to me about the Antikythera machine is how it doesn't seem to have had much of an impact of what's assumed about history? Here you have a device which is clearly very advanced, basically the same level of technology that started to come into being in the 16th/17th centuries onwards, and yet it appears to be viewed as some kind of anomaly.

[questionmark]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm of course aware of the Baghdad Battery, and the Antikythera machine (although I'd never heard of the Iron Pillar of Delhi before). What's interesting to me about the Antikythera machine is how it doesn't seem to have had much of an impact of what's assumed about history? Here you have a device which is clearly very advanced, basically the same level of technology that started to come into being in the 16th/17th centuries onwards, and yet it appears to be viewed as some kind of anomaly.

It most probably was not the only "advanced" Greek instrument. Another good example (and mostly ignored by both Greekophiles and fringies) is the Tower of the Winds in Athens that housed the first precise clock known to humanity not dependent on the sun. One day somebody decided to sell it off as old metal... the tower is still there.

Edited August 12, 2014 by questionmark

[seeder]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm of course aware of the Baghdad Battery, and the Antikythera machine (although I'd never heard of the Iron Pillar of Delhi before). What's interesting to me about the Antikythera machine is how it doesn't seem to have had much of an impact of what's assumed about history? Here you have a device which is clearly very advanced, basically the same level of technology that started to come into being in the 16th/17th centuries onwards, and yet it appears to be viewed as some kind of anomaly.

id say it had a huge impact, being the worlds first ever 'computer'

[Argonaut]

id say it had a huge impact, being the worlds first ever 'computer'

Huge impact in what sense though? and to what community? Academia? Ancient mysteries investigators? Archaeologists? the public at large?

[questionmark]

Huge impact in what sense though? and to what community? Academia? Ancient mysteries investigators? Archaeologists? the public at large?

You cannot compare the ancient Greek society with 5-10% literacy (mostly among city dwellers) with modern societies where the illiterate is more the exception. Impacts of natural sciences were on a small minority of the people around. For most the Antikythera mechanism would have been a helluva novel paperweight (if they actually had use for one).

On the other hand, as we have found only one so far and no mentions in literature, we can only fabulate what kind of uses the thingy might have had and how many of them existed.

[aquatus1]

It had a big impact in the arena in which it is interesting. To a lot of people, ancient Greek history isn't that interesting.

[seeder]

Huge impact in what sense though? and to what community? Academia? Ancient mysteries investigators? Archaeologists? the public at large?

Was just about to say watch the short vid I posted, but realised I linked to the live news, not the article itself!

Quote from the vid "It upsets all our ideas about what the Greeks were capable of, it rewrites the history of technology"

correct link!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17989915

[Argonaut]

You cannot compare the ancient Greek society with 5-10% literacy (mostly among city dwellers) with modern societies where the illiterate is more the exception. Impacts of natural sciences were on a small minority of the people around. For most the Antikythera mechanism would have been a helluva novel paperweight (if they actually had use for one).

On the other hand, as we have found only one so far and no mentions in literature, we can only fabulate what kind of uses the thingy might have had and how many of them existed.

But isn't that strange though? no mentions in literature of such a device? You would of thought it would of been lauded as a technical marvel of the age by whoever was in power at the time, if on the other hand it was created by an individual where did they get the knowledge to do that?

It had a big impact in the arena in which it is interesting. To a lot of people, ancient Greek history isn't that interesting.

To me such a device goes beyond any defined area, to larger questions.

Was just about to say watch the short vid I posted, but realised I linked to the live news, not the article itself!

Quote from the vid "It upsets all our ideas about what the Greeks were capable of, it rewrites the history of technology"

correct link!

http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-17989915

Thanks for the link! That's an interesting quote, to me the point is if that was possible 100 BC, why did it take so long for the technology to be "invented" again?

[seeder]

Thanks for the link! That's an interesting quote, to me the point is if that was possible 100 BC, why did it take so long for the technology to be "invented" again?

And thats one of the puzzles in this particular case...

[AbyssWalker]

Is there something about either the baghdad battery or the mechanism that suggests they could be extra terrerestrial or alien in orign ?

[seeder]

Is there something about either the baghdad battery or the mechanism that suggests they could be extra terrerestrial or alien in orign ?

The 'battery' idea is not accepted by archaeologists at all, its purely fringe. nearly identical jars were found for scroll storage - so not really exciting after all eh? And why would ET be faffing about with cogs and gears? Do you think they may have forgotten how to get home

[questionmark]

But isn't that strange though? no mentions in literature of such a device? You would of thought it would of been lauded as a technical marvel of the age by whoever was in power at the time, if on the other hand it was created by an individual where did they get the knowledge to do that?

First we don't have all literature from 2500 years ago, what we have is faultily translated, faith sanitized (by both Muslims and Christians) and in fractions, we know that there was more because what we have cites the lost books.

And the marvels of the ages: even the Colossus of Rhodes was sold as old metal.... for them it was something they had and when there was no use for it converted into money, just as most Oldsmobile curved dash (first US car build in series) or Benz Velo (first car build in series)... and here we only talk 100 years, not 2500.

.

[The_Spartan]

The Iron Pillar of Delhi (link to wiki: http://en.wikipedia....pillar_of_Delhi ) was considered until relevantly recently, as an unexplained wonder because it showed no sign of rusting. It is certainly not a hoax but the inscriptions on it have never been subject to serious scrutiny (apart from one).

Some Ooparts seem to defy purpose, such as the Baghdad Battery, often presented as a source of electricity. (just spotted Bubblykiss' response - small minds seldom differ

The inscription has been translated good and well. there is no mystery about the inscriptions or the pillar itself. The pillar was actually located elsewhere and just like the obeliks shifted and installed in Rome, the iron pillar was most probably looted by illtumish of the Delhi sultanate and shifted to Delhi.

Metallurgical analysis has proved that initial rust itself has prevented further rusting of the pillar. No aliens, no OOPART, no mystery.

[questionmark]

The 'battery' idea is not accepted by archaeologists at all, its purely fringe. nearly identical jars were found for scroll storage - so not really exciting after all eh? And why would ET be faffing about with cogs and gears? Do you think they may have forgotten how to get home

And even if those jars were not used as scroll storage bins, we know of the Phoenicians that they were capable of gold plating... no ET needed either.

Edited August 12, 2014 by questionmark

[The_Spartan]

If some people claim the Baghdad batteries to be of alien origin, one plain question -

Why the heck would the so called highly advanced alien species resort to a power source in a clay covered jar, while they had all the technology to have designed and created better containers for a battery???

[seeder]

But isn't that strange though? no mentions in literature of such a device? You would of thought it would of been lauded as a technical marvel of the age by whoever was in power at the time, if on the other hand it was created by an individual where did they get the knowledge to do that?

The ship carrying the device also contained vases that were in the Rhodian style. One hypothesis is that the device was constructed at an academy founded by the Stoic philosopher Posidonius on the Greek island of Rhodes, which at the time was known as a center of astronomy and mechanical engineering; this hypothesis further suggests that the mechanism may have been designed by the astronomer Hipparchus, since it contains a lunar mechanism which uses Hipparchus's theory for the motion of the Moon. Hipparchus was thought to have worked from about 140 BC to 120 BC. Rhodes was a trading port at that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

[Argonaut]

Ok so, so far it seems there's only 1 item which doesn't fit into the usual accepted view of technological history and that's the Antikythera mechanism, which was actually capable of being built at the time, but the mystery being why was the technology not rediscovered for so long afterwards, are there no other artifacts? What about other areas, such as fossils, bones, decorative items, paintings etc?

[seeder]

Ok so, so far it seems there's only 1 item which doesn't fit into the usual accepted view of technological history and that's the Antikythera mechanism, which was actually capable of being built at the time, but the mystery being why was the technology not rediscovered for so long afterwards, are there no other artifacts? What about other areas, such as fossils, bones, decorative items, paintings etc?

The fact it was found heavily corroded at the bottom of the sea, is a pretty good reason why we dont have more, or much knowledge about it at all. Imagine if that ship hadnt sunk, and the new owners commissioned more? heck wrist watches may have been invented centuries ago!

But not all inventors/scientists from similar times have been forgotten! Archimedes was a smart guy, and his 'screw' is still in use today!

.

Edited August 12, 2014 by seeder

[stereologist]

What about Clovis points? They were a technological marvel of their day. The atlatl was another marvel of its day.

According to a NOVA show on the antikythera mechanism, the idea to use gears went from the European world to the Arabic world and was later reintroduced and used to build clocks.