pallidin Posted September 11, 2014 #226 Share Posted September 11, 2014 i wish i could, but i cant theres only a few people that know everything i have been through and that's how it will always be. im not fond of psychiatrists and i know i would never return for a second visit hell i doubt i'd stay for the "pleasant" introductions. as for my situation being very common it doesn't mean i can be helped. nor do i think i even want it anymore. I understand. There are "skeletons" in my closet that I would never reveal except to maybe a priest(which I have not done) Iron_Lotus, allow me to clarify something that I did not even know until 3 years ago. There are 2 types of psychiatrists. The first is the one we all commonly think of... the "talk" psychiatrist. We all fear those. There is a second type, still board-certified, but they just do "general" interviews and prescribe meds. I did not qualify for free psychotherapy, but I did qualify for a free psychiatrist that asks gentle questions and prescribes meds. He didn't even care that I drink! I has worked wonders for me, as I would not feel comfortable revealing my entire b****** life to ANYONE other than a priest. So, I fully understand your position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted September 11, 2014 #227 Share Posted September 11, 2014 The good news is that both depression and anxiety can often be strictly "situational", and though both may exhibit extreme symptoms it can be temporary; often when the "situation" is relieved or entirely changed. And meds/psychotherapy can be stopped. This is the hope for most of us whom suffer. I dealt with it rather poorly for years, realizing that it comes and goes, until Prozac and its imitators came along. It was funny -- I had been on it maybe six weeks when I realized I hadn't had a suicidal thought in quite a while and I felt good. Unfortunately I was one of the lucky ones where that stuff works. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted September 11, 2014 #228 Share Posted September 11, 2014 The stuff is subtle -- you don't really notice anything -- and it doesn't change what you are, except that cloud doesn't come. You still have your troubles and times of sadness, but not that cloud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted September 11, 2014 #229 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I dealt with it rather poorly for years, realizing that it comes and goes, until Prozac and its imitators came along. It was funny -- I had been on it maybe six weeks when I realized I hadn't had a suicidal thought in quite a while and I felt good. Unfortunately I was one of the lucky ones where that stuff works. Yeah, you know Frank, it's kinda like OTC painkillers. Aspirin, Ibuprofen, Tylenol, Aleve(naproxen sodium) They have different effects for different people, and some people can tolerate some but not others. For psychotropics, we have SSRI's and SNRI's. I cannot for whatever reason tolerate SSRI's, while other's can just fine, so I have to do SNRI's, in my current case it's Cymbalta. So yeah, it took nearly 3 years for the docs to figure-out what works best for me, and now finally it does, and lifted my own cloud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSilhouette Posted September 11, 2014 #230 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) depression sounds horrible... is it some sort of fear?? It sounds like people feel overwhelmed ?? ( i've felt like i was absolutely DROWNING in some work situations in the past in which i was very nearly completely overwhelmed by it and got that old It's Impossible! feeling. I didn't feel suicidal though.. just overwhelmed.. a sort of hopeless sadness along with an intense EXHAUSTION. That's probably because you have a good support group. Most very depressed people may be surrounded by people they know, but not those intrisically that they trust with their deepest feelings. And those people may be keeping the depressed person from reaching out to others who might fit that bill. There are good support groups, bad support groups and no support group at all. But there are also angels in the weirdest places at the weirdest times. Keep an eye out for them. There can be hope in the twinkling eye & the warm smile of a complete stranger. Medication does nothing without the companion of venting and therapy. Be it with a solid, trusting friend or licensed person. Medication as usual will often only mask the underlying disease while the real work of curing it needs to happen also. It's OK to cry and to tell people your sorrows. We are more alike than most people think in our sufferings. And when depressed do these things too. They are often better than medication. 1. Sit with a cat or dog and just pet them. For hours. Cry to them and tell them how you feel. Animals are amazingly empathetic and will help you re-energize your spirit. 2. Take frequent naps, followed by light to moderate exercise, preferrably outdoors. Walk barefoot if you can tolerate it for a short time. 3. Sit with your belly facing the sun and imagine your belly as a container and the sunshine as a liquid pouring into it until it is full. 4. Eat, small meals regularly. Even when you do not feel like it at all. Force yourself to take just a few mouthfuls. 5. When you feel able, try to tackle a small project. Be it a jigsaw puzzle or putting in a new garden. Anything you like to do will do. Something you are relatively good at to begin with. A sense of accomplishment is very healing. 6. Pray. Pray for energy. Pray for hope. Pray for protection. For often [but not always] people who are depressed are under psychic attack. 7. Take pleasure in very very small things. Like the sound of a bird. Or the dew drops on a leaf. Watch the hell out of comedy. Rent "Monty Python & the Holy Grail"..[again] .lol.. ".....I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!" "...Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land. Nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history. " C'mon.... You know you want to watch it again. Edited September 11, 2014 by SSilhouette 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted September 11, 2014 #231 Share Posted September 11, 2014 That's probably because you have a good support group. Most very depressed people may be surrounded by people they know, but not those intrisically that they trust with their deepest feelings. And those people may be keeping the depressed person from reaching out to others who might fit that bill. There are good support groups, bad support groups and no support group at all. But there are also angels in the weirdest places at the weirdest times. Keep an eye out for them. There can be hope in the twinkling eye & the warm smile of a complete stranger. Medication does nothing without the companion of venting and therapy. Be it with a solid, trusting friend or licensed person. Medication as usual will often only mask the underlying disease while the real work of curing it needs to happen also. It's OK to cry and to tell people your sorrows. We are more alike than most people think in our sufferings. I respectfully disagree. I had therapy for years and it had little effect except teach me a few coping techniques that soon lost their effectiveness. Now I take pills and don't need therapy. This is a medical condition and if medicine works, save the money. The psychiatric profession has invested a lot in their different methods and so on, but I think it is mostly just wishful thinking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock. Posted September 11, 2014 #232 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I didn't know that there was an "accidental suicide", as suicide implies intent. It's sort of saying like somebody accidentally murdered another, as murder implies intent--it just doesn't make sense. Secondly, in order to claim that it is selfish it is first and foremost important to understand the mindset of one upon committing suicide. Perhaps some may commit suicide as an act of revenge or spite (for whatever reason), but in many cases those who do commit suicide feel quite helpless, and see it as their only option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSilhouette Posted September 11, 2014 #233 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) I respectfully disagree. I had therapy for years and it had little effect except teach me a few coping techniques that soon lost their effectiveness. Now I take pills and don't need therapy. This is a medical condition and if medicine works, save the money. The psychiatric profession has invested a lot in their different methods and so on, but I think it is mostly just wishful thinking. It truly is a medical condition that follows a condition of the mind. Go off your medication and see what I mean. I'm conceding at least that medication may be necessary during a rough spot. But the mind must come along. My guess is that you did some therapy but not enough. But that's pretty typical. I see you responded before I made my edits on my last post. What do you think of them? Most of us come by depression this way: 1. A ****ty childhood. Mishandling. Abuse 2. Adolescence where we try to escape those toxic memories and events stored in our minds. 3. Adulthood where those repressed memories start to surface via trigger events [usually in a relationship with someone where we are substituting them for the old family wounds and trying our best to work through those wounds]. 4. Depression at the failure of doing #3. When people talk about going through therapy it is often incomplete. That is because in therapy people hit walls they don't want to go through. This is perfectly normal. But those walls must be breached and the contents behind cleared out and emptied. No matter what you suffer with, there is always a way to get through that stuff. The best way I've come across is to realize that the people who did "this and that" to me were and are mentally ill themselves. They were affected by their parents and they their parents before them...etc. If you trace it back far enough it comes down to plain old evil influence in this world. So your proper enemy is the evil in this world. To heal all that you work through your old anger [depression is very often anger unexpressed and turned upon oneself instead] at being abused by this evil. Then you forgive the individuals responsible as just being the tools they were for this greater influential Power. Once you have divorced yourself from the obsession that old wounds pull you back into over and over via forgiveness, your energy is free to return to you. There is no other way to explain this relief other than "suddenly feeling alive again". It's sometimes very subtle. Or sometimes profound. But that's always the end result of this hard work. Edited September 11, 2014 by SSilhouette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted September 11, 2014 #234 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I didn't know that there was an "accidental suicide", as suicide implies intent. It's sort of saying like somebody accidentally murdered another, as murder implies intent--it just doesn't make sense. Secondly, in order to claim that it is selfish it is first and foremost important to understand the mindset of one upon committing suicide. Perhaps some may commit suicide as an act of revenge or spite (for whatever reason), but in many cases those who do commit suicide feel quite helpless, and see it as their only option. There are acts of suicide committed out of unselfishness, such as when someone with Alzheimer's coming on does it to prevent being a burden, but I think even here depression is the greater part of it. My opinion -- I know of no studies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted September 11, 2014 #235 Share Posted September 11, 2014 What you list are coping techniques, and do not attack the root medical condition. Medication does. No, I do not go off my medication even in an experiment, any more than I go off by blood pressure medication. The problem with coping techniques is that over time they lose their effectiveness. When you are depressed they come to seem artificial and gimmicky. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSilhouette Posted September 11, 2014 #236 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) What you list are coping techniques, and do not attack the root medical condition. Medication does. No, I do not go off my medication even in an experiment, any more than I go off by blood pressure medication. The problem with coping techniques is that over time they lose their effectiveness. When you are depressed they come to seem artificial and gimmicky. Yes! Without the necessary THOROUGH regressive therapy. Not what passes for that in today's PC-world. With that thorough recapitulation, a return to normalcy is a decent prognosis. Your prescription of giving up and being medicated is often the source of mental anguish for those who commit suicide. They begin to see themselves as just these medicated zombies who have had the edge of life removed by drugs. Check the statistics. This is often the cause for the last abandonment of hope. I'm saying there is hope BESIDES medication. And that that edge of life, those vibrant colors and that wild side of you that is fun can return with BOTH medication and further, gruelling therapy. You cannot get across the bridge without putting one foot in front of the other. It's OK. I'll be OK. I don't want to make you shudder in your boots with the details of what I've been through and walked out the other side. You might become more depressed. Suffice to say that there is at least one other poster here who has an idea of the details and they can attest that most people would've died long ago from the type of repression and calculated terror heaped upon my person. I'm saying these remedies work. I am living proof. And you know...I'm not done. Nobody is ever done working though stuff. Each day is a new challenge. But if you look forward to it as a challenge instead of a dread, then you're 1/2 way to healing. I'm still cleaning out my closet. It's a daily chore, but a worthwhile one. Edited September 11, 2014 by SSilhouette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted September 11, 2014 #237 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Maybe medication for conditions like schizophrenia creates "zombies," but that is really even there not accurate. It doesn't change you at all -- it just avoids the clouds. That word should not be used in intelligent discussion of the subject. Those on this thread, including myself, know too well all about what it is, while I agree that most people have no real understanding and can't be expected to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSilhouette Posted September 11, 2014 #238 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Maybe medication for conditions like schizophrenia creates "zombies," but that is really even there not accurate. It doesn't change you at all -- it just avoids the clouds. That word should not be used in intelligent discussion of the subject. Those on this thread, including myself, know too well all about what it is, while I agree that most people have no real understanding and can't be expected to. I've been on antidepressants before and I know what you're talking about. The medication can be very subtle. But it's the *idea* of being on medication to achieve happiness or at least contentment that plunges people into further depression. That's the part where the lines between mind and body begin to blur. The mind can cause depression in the body/mind. Or more properly, the spirit can cause a medical condition in the body we know as "depression". To say you can treat the body while neglecting the spiritual side of depression is a fool's errand. The spirit is infinitely more powerful in its influence on the body than drugs could ever mask. So I recommend BOTH medication AND spiritual treatments. You can call them "coping mechanisms". I will call them "the cure". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redefining Success Posted September 11, 2014 #239 Share Posted September 11, 2014 The best thing that helped me was talking, this doesnt directly relate to suicide, but another junction in my life. I witnessed an event that shook me to my core, it distressed me to the extent I cried for 3 hours and it played on my mind for weeks, it depressed me to a point and I was one angry mofo! Docs gave me meds, they screwed my stomach up, I was feeling sick and toilet time was more involved than needs to be told, I was a walking zombie, I wasnt me. Docs reffered me to a councillor, laid all my cards on the table, every last nitty gritty was there, she didnt judge or hold an opinion of what I was telling her no matter how concerning it would be to joe public. I understood how to deal with things and cope, it was a breath of fresh air and a weight of my shoulders. If you feel meds are unsuitable, ask for councelling, or even ring a help line, you can speak to the same person each time if need be and they can ring you back. Many docs give out meds like a pez dispenser, not always the answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted September 11, 2014 #240 Share Posted September 11, 2014 No meds are not always the answer. Sometimes there is no answer, it is incurable in that particular person. This is a tragedy. I do think though that accusing doctors of handing out medicine willy-nilly or like candy is not helpful, nor accurate. It is true that mental illnesses themselves interfere with the efforts to treat them. Depression robs one of the will and convinces one that there is no possible help. Part of the problem is public prejudice, as I am seeing in this thread, against "pills." Yes pills are dangerous and must be approached cautiously, but in this respect they are like fire. Because fire is dangerous does not mean I don't use my fireplace. Someone who has notions about taking pills of the sort you describe needs counseling. If a means of lifting suffering is available we owe ourselves to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Lotus Posted September 11, 2014 #241 Share Posted September 11, 2014 The drs ive been to gave me heaps of pills then more pills then pills to help counter side effects of other pills then change the dosages then take me off them then put me on four different kinds of meds yeah sorry but its pretty accurate and for me having an addictive personality and a former abuser of drugs its not for me and never will be again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted September 11, 2014 #242 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I can only hope your decision doesn't lead to disaster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Lotus Posted September 11, 2014 #243 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Well see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted September 11, 2014 #244 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) "Zombie" medications are, of course, out there. By themselves, or by higher than usual dosages of otherwise "non-zombie" drugs. My brother was given a 10-day stay in a local psychiatric ward that was a full lock-down facility. I visited him several times and noticed a very distinct "zombie" effect. I asked to see a list of his meds and I was shocked as to the amounts, frequency, types and potency. In his case they were necessary, as his condition(brain-stem damage resulting from a severe diabetic episode) left him extremely delusional, agitated and sometimes violent. They HAD to calm him down, hard-core. My daughter took someone else's prescription sleep meds, trazadone, I think, during the day just to get "off" She visited me at work and she was totally "zombified" I honestly don't know how she was able to drive there. When I was given my current prescriptions I voiced my concern about the potential lethargic effects to my psych. He said I would be just fine if I did not mis-use the meds. He was right. No-one can tell I'm even on anything. But then again, I am an alcoholic, but I refuse to abuse my meds. I take Cymbalta, Lamictal, Klonopin, Ativan, Lisinopril and Trazadone. The Ativan and the Trazodone is only "as-needed" I have and never will abuse the medications. The prescribed doses are working well for me, and no-one can tell I'm even on anything. I do not see a "therapist", but it has been recommended. My insurance currently does not cover that. Lesson I learned: Keep alcohol intake to a reasonable minimum, no "hard" alcohol at all, because it can cause weird reactions with some of my meds. EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot to add... alcohol along with Klonopin or Ativan at high enough dosages can cause respiratory failure(due to the fact that all three are CNS depressants) which can be lethal. Alcohol mixed with antidepressants can cause bizarre reactions, including spontaneous, unpleasant hallucinations. BE CAFEFUL if you drink. Stick with beer, trust me. Edited September 11, 2014 by pallidin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted September 11, 2014 #245 Share Posted September 11, 2014 The drs ive been to gave me heaps of pills then more pills then pills to help counter side effects of other pills then change the dosages then take me off them then put me on four different kinds of meds yeah sorry but its pretty accurate and for me having an addictive personality and a former abuser of drugs its not for me and never will be again Dear friend, please reconsider your desire to no longer see a doc for evaluation and meds. Change your doc if need-be, I did that because my previous experience with my former docs were less than pleasant. Now everything is fine, but it took me 3-years, and those 3-years were hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSilhouette Posted September 11, 2014 #246 Share Posted September 11, 2014 The best thing that helped me was talking, this doesnt directly relate to suicide, but another junction in my life. I witnessed an event that shook me to my core, it distressed me to the extent I cried for 3 hours and it played on my mind for weeks, it depressed me to a point and I was one angry mofo! Docs gave me meds, they screwed my stomach up, I was feeling sick and toilet time was more involved than needs to be told, I was a walking zombie, I wasnt me. Docs reffered me to a councillor, laid all my cards on the table, every last nitty gritty was there, she didnt judge or hold an opinion of what I was telling her no matter how concerning it would be to joe public. I understood how to deal with things and cope, it was a breath of fresh air and a weight of my shoulders. If you feel meds are unsuitable, ask for councelling, or even ring a help line, you can speak to the same person each time if need be and they can ring you back. Many docs give out meds like a pez dispenser, not always the answers. Yes and sometimes BigPharma even has bloggers that are paid to do nothing but post "as regular people" on topics like this, urging all to only take meds. Only meds. All the time. I'm not saying anyone here is doing that. I'm just saying it happens. I also say that there is a place and time for meds and a place and time for not-meds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSilhouette Posted September 11, 2014 #247 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Dear friend, please reconsider your desire to no longer see a doc for evaluation and meds. Change your doc if need-be, I did that because my previous experience with my former docs were less than pleasant. Now everything is fine, but it took me 3-years, and those 3-years were hell. That may be good advice. But let me add something more here. I had a good friend, an ex-sister in law who worked for an OB/GYN medical office. She said that she never brought lunch to work because daily they were wined and dined by reps from the drug industry. Over and over they pushed the doctors to push drugs...she said even on patients that didn't need them and would fare much better with other therapies. Literally day and night doctors are besieged with bribes from drug companies to push prescriptions of all types and descriptions. I believe they even get financial kick backs and incentives to push drugs on patients who both need and don't need them. Even those that certainly would be better off without them! So whoever reads this will have to go with their gut instinct on which doctor is levelling with them and which is just wanting to bag another prescription. Rule of thumb seems to be those doctors who prescribe alternatives first and then only use drugs as a last resort or a begrudging secondary option. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros of Skaro Posted September 11, 2014 #248 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Or because your body is not use to producing as much happy hormones itself anymore. Just my random theory anyways There is some truth to your theory. Some drugs like Cocaine alters the pleasure producing neuroreceptors in the Brain. Robin Williams had a Coke habit at one point. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted September 11, 2014 #249 Share Posted September 11, 2014 There is some truth to your theory. Some drugs like Cocaine alters the pleasure producing neuroreceptors in the Brain. Robin Williams had a Coke habit at one point. You can burn them out. MOAIs can build them back again, but its a slow process and they come with their own set of problems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSilhouette Posted September 11, 2014 #250 Share Posted September 11, 2014 There is some truth to your theory. Some drugs like Cocaine alters the pleasure producing neuroreceptors in the Brain. Robin Williams had a Coke habit at one point. Very cheeky but good point. Excellent delivery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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