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F3SS

Thoughts on suicide?

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spartan max2

It's no secret that the percentage of those who have stronger relationships on the internet than in real life tend to have a higher number of people with mild forms of depression. Personally, I believe it is simple because it is a far simpler way of dealing with yet another variable in a life that sometimes feels like it is getting a bit too out of hand. I was 12 when a psychiatrist mentioned to my parents (but not to me) that they might consider pharmaceuticals to help me with some social issues I was having, but they decided not to go that route. My entire life I have known that there were times that I would become mildly depressed, but it was weak enough that I would actually be able to "talk" my way out of it and simply wait for it to pass. That doesn't mean it was in any way less depressive; tolerating pain isn't the same as making pain go away.

I'm 41 now, and frankly, I am tired. It takes a surprising amount of effort to simply go about your business as normal when a wave of depression hits, and I thank my lucky stars I don't have a clinically debilitating level of it. A few years ago I began taking a mild anti-depressant, and my quality of life skyrocketed. All the energy that had to be held in reserve is now available for me to use in other aspects of my life. There is a downside as well; if I am caught without my medication, the depression feels even stronger, whether because I am out of practice with dealing with it, or because it is actually getting worse with age, I don't know.

Or because your body is not use to producing as much happy hormones itself anymore. Just my random theory anyways

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highdesert50

The candor of those of you who have commented on your thoughts or failed attempts at suicide are indeed an acts of courage. Perhaps this kind of enlightenment will encourage empathetic insight from others who are unaware of the debilitating influence of pain whether physical or mental.

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aquatus1

Or because your body is not use to producing as much happy hormones itself anymore. Just my random theory anyways

It was never too good at producing them to begin with.

That's kind of what a disability is all about. Technically, you are probably correct, but a person who uses crutches is using them because their body wasn't working at a satisfactory level to begin with. Sure, their legs are going to get even weaker and it will be harder for them to walk without crutches, but if they needed crutches to begin with, chances are they weren't satisfied with their level of performance to begin with.

Edited by aquatus1
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spartan max2

It was never too good at producing them to begin with.

That's kind of what a disability is all about. Technically, you are probably correct, but a person who uses crutches is using them because their body wasn't working at a satisfactory level to begin with. Sure, their legs are going to get even weaker and it will be harder for them to walk without crutches, but if they needed crutches to begin with, chances are they weren't satisfied with their level of performance to begin with.

Oh don't get me wrong I have Nonething against people using antidepressants. My dad uses them. I was just stating my theory

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F3SS

Fess i think alot of it is because you probably have a family and your looking at it from a fathers prospective instead of trying to look at it from the perspective of the person who commits the act

That is a perspective I see it from but not the only one. I see it from the perspectives of sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends and neighbors. None of what I had posted had to do with a particular perspective though coincidentally to your post only minutes after I created this thread last night my new wife broke the not entirely expected news that she is pregnant with our first. Make of that what you will.

Given that, I haven't been able to muster the will to reply to all who quoted me since last night. Guess I've got new things on my mind.

What I will say is that I find some views baffling and some enlightening. I still stand by my words though. Those looking to bait me into a bickering match aren't going to get it.

Best of all it seems that I've created an outlet in this thread for a lot of you to open up about things. I find some of it to be a bit too personal but it looks to me to be therapeutic for you all. It's probably healthy for you to share this information. It's like an anonymous help group. I feel like it is helping some to be pulled from the darkness and into the light if only for a little bit. So quit being angry with me and use this to your advantage. All I have to share is an opinion and you know what they're like. That's right and everybody's got one.

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Hammerclaw

Never commit suicide by jumping from a very high place. It takes too long and gives you too much time to think. What if, halfway down, you change your mind?

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Wendigo Wangs

Never commit suicide by jumping from a very high place. It takes too long and gives you too much time to think. What if, halfway down, you change your mind?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/12/what-a-man-who-jumped-off-the-golden-gate-bridge-thought-the-millisecond-his-hands-left-the-rail/

Kevin Hines jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge in 2000, but a split second after making the irreversible decision, changed his mind about wanting to commit suicide.

“The millisecond that my hands left the rail … I had what I call an instant regret,”

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Hammerclaw

http://www.theblaze....-left-the-rail/

Kevin Hines jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge in 2000, but a split second after making the irreversible decision, changed his mind about wanting to commit suicide.

“The millisecond that my hands left the rail … I had what I call an instant regret,”

What a despicable city! They are only now scraping up money to build suicide barriers. They think themselves so forward looking, liberal, progressive and compassionate. Yet only now, after almost a century of suicides are they--maybe--going to something about it. If you're going to San Francisco, don't forget your jump boots.

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Blood_Sacrifice

I'm talking about the deliberate kind, not accidental. I feel that it is the greatest act of selfishness one can commit. The act will terrorize the deceased's loved ones for ever. It accomplishes nothing but to escape any and all responsibility and dumps it on those left behind to deal with wether they want to or not, wether they can or not. Nobody deserves to be put through that. It's horribly unnecessary.

I've been censored and condemned to hell in another thread for voicing that opinion. I hope a dedicated thread is ok. All I want to know is how other people feel about it. Please do not mention names of those guilty of the act, famous or otherwise.

Yeah, because we haven't seen such horrible acts of selfishness being showcased any of our life-loving, long-living mortal friends, have we? I mean, billionaires evading tax, people abandoning their dying parents for a party night, killing others in the name of religion, having absolute control over your children to the point of treating them like slaves, etc are not acts of selfishness, are they? :-*

I don't "support" suicide in the sense of assisting someone into it -- no matter how bleak and hopeless life is for them, I'd ask them to persevere -- but I sure as hell won't judge them as selfish people if they do. We have rights over our body, our mind and our existence. Killing others and killing yourself is not the same thing. When you kill others, you take a life without his or her consent. When we do something to ourselves, we are doing it with our own consent.The idea that you are not your own, you are God's, only God can give or take life, etc is a religious view, and is therefore not something I subscribe too. Yes, we have responsibilities and obligations toward others, but that in no way means a person committing suicide is a selfish cow and deserves the label of the worst offender on earth.

I oppose suicide (not talking about euthanasia) for the same reason I oppose escapism. And also because of the damage it does to ones family and loves ones. However, I realize it's not a black-and-white issue and people dealing with the worst periods of depression and hopelessness know that. Yes, we should discourage suicide and instead encourage people to live and make life easier for them. But that is very different to treating suicidal people as the next Jeffrey Dahmer or something, ya know.

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Hammerclaw

To understand true depression you have to experience it. Just be warned; the experience is often fatal. Feeling down is not depression. True depression is horrifying. You can not possibly imagine what it feels like. When I was a young man I skirted that abyss once, and recoiled from it in pure terror. One glimpse was enough.

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Blood_Sacrifice

To understand true depression you have to experience it. Just be warned; the experience is often fatal. Feeling down is not depression. True depression is horrifying. You can not possibly imagine what it feels like. When I was a young man I skirted that abyss once, and recoiled from it in pure terror. One glimpse was enough.

Been there, done that :)

Luckily, my parents took me to a psychiatrist when I was 13, and I've been on anti-depressant since then. As Aquatus1 pointed out, your 'happiness' level just skyrockets.

Every time my anti-depressant was reduced, I could, literally, feel the difference.

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Cookie Monster

I don't "support" suicide in the sense of assisting someone into it -- no matter how bleak and hopeless life is for them, I'd ask them to persevere -- but I sure as hell won't judge them as selfish people if they do. We have rights over our body, our mind and our existence. Killing others and killing yourself is not the same thing. When you kill others, you take a life without his or her consent. When we do something to ourselves, we are doing it with our own consent.The idea that you are not your own, you are God's, only God can give or take life, etc is a religious view, and is therefore not something I subscribe too. Yes, we have responsibilities and obligations toward others, but that in no way means a person committing suicide is a selfish cow and deserves the label of the worst offender on earth.

I oppose suicide (not talking about euthanasia) for the same reason I oppose escapism. And also because of the damage it does to ones family and loves ones. However, I realize it's not a black-and-white issue and people dealing with the worst periods of depression and hopelessness know that. Yes, we should discourage suicide and instead encourage people to live and make life easier for them. But that is very different to treating suicidal people as the next Jeffrey Dahmer or something, ya know.

The Bible doesnt actually say suicide is a sin. There are numerous examples of characters topping themsleves in it but the book doesnt indicate that any of them went to hell as a result. Suicide being a sin arose from the Church distorting thou shalt not kill into including thou shalt not kill thyself. Still I think suicide is a huge waste.

If someone has 6 months to live and is agony then drugs or the cutting of nerves are effective pain management technqiues. Theres no reason for euthanasia and doing so means someone has committed a sin - the killing of another. People can get enjoyment from their last six months if thats what they look for.

If I was on my way out I'd have 6 months in the pub!

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White Crane Feather

I'm talking about the deliberate kind, not accidental. I feel that it is the greatest act of selfishness one can commit. The act will terrorize the deceased's loved ones for ever. It accomplishes nothing but to escape any and all responsibility and dumps it on those left behind to deal with wether they want to or not, wether they can or not. Nobody deserves to be put through that. It's horribly unnecessary.

I've been censored and condemned to hell in another thread for voicing that opinion. I hope a dedicated thread is ok. All I want to know is how other people feel about it. Please do not mention names of those guilty of the act, famous or otherwise.

I would say that you are Making a huge assumption that the person is thinking clearly and rationally. A suicidal person might just have it in their heads that everyone is better off without them and actually be making a misguided loving choice. It's to hard to tell.

Yes I do believe some suicides are narcissistic cowards. Like those who kill themselves rather than face prison, or kill others then hide from their actions through death, but many times suicidal thoughts are symptoms of other illnesses that has a solid basis in reality and if treated properly go away. This demonstrates that its not a character flaw but a neurological one in most cases.

Edited by White Crane Feather

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Hammerclaw

I'm talking about the deliberate kind, not accidental. I feel that it is the greatest act of selfishness one can commit. The act will terrorize the deceased's loved ones for ever. It accomplishes nothing but to escape any and all responsibility and dumps it on those left behind to deal with wether they want to or not, wether they can or not. Nobody deserves to be put through that. It's horribly unnecessary.

I've been censored and condemned to hell in another thread for voicing that opinion. I hope a dedicated thread is ok. All I want to know is how other people feel about it. Please do not mention names of those guilty of the act, famous or otherwise.

You sound selfish, self centered and like a total ass, completely lacking in empathy. Does that clear it up for you any?
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Neognosis
I feel that it is the greatest act of selfishness one can commit. The act will terrorize the deceased's loved ones for ever. It accomplishes nothing but to escape any and all responsibility and dumps it on those left behind to deal with wether they want to or not, wether they can or not. Nobody deserves to be put through that. It's horribly unnecessary.

When someone ends their own life, they are often feeling completely alone, and the depression and mental anguish that they feel will never end, and is literally unbearable.

Your statement is analogous to being angry at a man who just lost both arms in an accident for not sending you a hand written thank you note for visiting them in the hospital.

Someone was in so much anguish and pain that they ended their life. Let's think about that for a moment. Mental anguish so acute as to override every natural human instinct for survival. I believe that it is selfish to expect that person to continue on in such anguish and/or mental illness.

So, are you saying that even though someone was in such torment that they ended their life, you think that they are selfish because their last, desperate act made during the depths of deep and profound anguish and isolation, made you feel sad for awhile?

I believe that it is selfish to not empathize with such torment and illness.I assure you, the sadness you feel for missing this person is NOTHING compared to the feelings that drove them to end their life, and this idea that they had to soldier on in agony for YOU is really the selfish side of the coin.

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F3SS

I would say that you are Making a huge assumption that the person is thinking clearly and rationally.

I think that is what most of the conflict in my statements is about but it's not really what I've said. I am only speaking of the act itself.

You sound selfish, self centered and like a total ass, completely lacking in empathy. Does that clear it up for you any?

Coming from you? No. I don't even know who the hell you are so your reactionary judgement is null and void as far as I'm concerned. However, I am familiar with many posters here whose opinions I do value even if we clash. Except for those who only want to condemn me. Their opinions mean squat too and haven't added anything but an attack in this conversation.

I'd rather not do this. I said just a post ago that I don't want a fight. Why do you?

When someone ends their own life, they are often feeling completely alone, and the depression and mental anguish that they feel will never end, and is literally unbearable.

Your statement is analogous to being angry at a man who just lost both arms in an accident for not sending you a hand written thank you note for visiting them in the hospital.

Someone was in so much anguish and pain that they ended their life. Let's think about that for a moment. Mental anguish so acute as to override every natural human instinct for survival. I believe that it is selfish to expect that person to continue on in such anguish and/or mental illness.

So, are you saying that even though someone was in such torment that they ended their life, you think that they are selfish because their last, desperate act made during the depths of deep and profound anguish and isolation, made you feel sad for awhile?

I believe that it is selfish to not empathize with such torment and illness.I assure you, the sadness you feel for missing this person is NOTHING compared to the feelings that drove them to end their life, and this idea that they had to soldier on in agony for YOU is really the selfish side of the coin.

Ok, that's a given but it's often temporary and fleeting. Not always, but often. The alternative subject matter here is as permanent as it gets.

Sorry but that's just not a reasonable analogy to me. There really isn't much to compare to this subject.

It seems that many of you feel that way. With statements like that and quite a few other similar ones it almost appears that a lot of you are quite supportive of suicide. Supportive might be off key but 'understanding' is probably the better word.

Again, the act is selfish. Wether or not the actor was, as in a selfish state of mind, can only be known to them in their final moments.

Oh my personal experience is far from sadness for him. For the five he left behind at home, yes sadness applies. Contempt and anger is all I have for him now. I knew him forever and he was generally awesome as far as I knew. I still talk and laugh about all the memories. I don't go around fuming. In fact, this is the most I've ever talked about it but so long as me, my dad and the rest of the family have to pick up his slack I will be angry with him. I'm changing the brakes on his car so his family can get around, building furniture for his kids because they're young and watching his oldest son lose his damn mind over this. So sue me for having opinions and feelings but this is far from about me.

Now that's my personal experience, that last paragraph. But my feelings on the subject in general still stand and were established feelings long before someone I know committed the act.

Edited by F3SS

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CuriousRey

I think that is what most of the conflict in my statements is about but it's not really what I've said. I am only speaking of the act itself.

Coming from you? No. I don't even know who the hell you are so your reactionary judgement is null and void as far as I'm concerned. However, I am familiar with many posters here whose opinions I do value even if we clash. Except for those who only want to condemn me. Their opinions mean squat too and haven't added anything but an attack in this conversation.

I'd rather not do this. I said just a post ago that I don't want a fight. Why do you?

Ok, that's a given but it's often temporary and fleeting. Not always, but often. The alternative subject matter here is as permanent as it gets.

Sorry but that's just not a reasonable analogy to me. There really isn't much to compare to this subject.

It seems that many of you feel that way. With statements like that and quite a few other similar ones it almost appears that a lot of you are quite supportive of suicide. Supportive might be off key but 'understanding' is probably the better word.

Again, the act is selfish. Wether or not the actor was, as in a selfish state of mind, can only be known to them in their final moments.

Oh my personal experience is far from sadness for him. For the five he left behind at home, yes sadness applies. Contempt and anger is all I have for him now. I knew him forever and he was generally awesome as far as I knew. I still talk and laugh about all the memories. I don't go around fuming. In fact, this is the most I've ever talked about it but so long as me, my dad and the rest of the family have to pick up his slack I will be angry with him. I'm changing the brakes on his car so his family can get around, building furniture for his kids because they're young and watching his oldest son lose his damn mind over this. So sue me for having opinions and feelings but this is far from about me.

Now that's my personal experience, that last paragraph. But my feelings on the subject in general still stand and were established feelings long before someone I know committed the act.

Personally, I can understand your viewpoint as well as everyone else that has contributed to this thread thus far, though you almost lost me at the supportive of suicide comment. I do agree that understanding is a far better word, in my opinion suicide is a terrible option albeit one that I've considered myself. I look at it from both sides, though depression "may" be temporary and fleeting in some I would argue that those contemplating suicide experience it more often than not and thus the reason why they are considering suicide an option in the first place.

You expressing your anger for having to pick up the slack is completely understandable and literally the main reason I've not followed through with my thoughts, I cannot imagine anyone but myself taking care of my child and I certainly don't want my parents to go through the absolute anguish that they would certainly experience losing their only son (the only reason I can even relate to this now is because I have one child and I wouldn't know what to do if something happened to him).

In the same regard you never know what is going on in a persons head and how much pain and anguish they are suffering, it's an all around terrible situation and I really wish there was some kind of miracle cure to alleviate depression in general, unfortunately in my case all of the pharmacueticals that I personally tried only worsened the situation. Not to say that this is always the case as I know many people who are completely different people because of their medications, unfortunately I am not one of them. Thankfully I am a logical, caring individual and I would rather suffer for 1000 years over than pain my family.

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XenoFish

The way I see it, life's been killing me since the day I was born. I'm just going to wait it out. Anyone care to join me?

For those who wish to end their lives at their own hands remember, that there are those who have it worse than you. That you should find someone one, a friend, loved one, and/or a professional. Talk to someone. People do care, even if you think they don't. I've died twice in my life, the first accidental (due to stupid "friends") and the second time was my own hand. I was luck to have someone who cared enough to bring me back. We all have our demons. It's how we handle them that matter.

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F3SS

though you almost lost me at the supportive of suicide comment.

Thanks for the reasonable reply. Seriously.

The 'supportive' quip is due to a lot if the comments I've gotten. Many tell me I'm selfish for wanting people to pull through the pain instead of wanting them to take the great escape. It feels like they're telling me to be supportive of their horrible decision. Understanding maybe but supportive, not a chance. Someone even said that suicide is courageous. Good grief! No pun intended there. Courage entails admirability. I'm sorry but give me break.

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XenoFish

If you have the strength to end your life, you have the strength to set it right. You just have to realize it.

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F3SS

If you have the strength to end your life, you have the strength to set it right. You just have to realize it.

That's a great way to look at it. While I find the word courageous to be insane pertaining to suicide I will agree that it takes a great deal of determination.

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aquatus1

The 'supportive' quip is due to a lot if the comments I've gotten. Many tell me I'm selfish for wanting people to pull through the pain instead of wanting them to take the great escape. It feels like they're telling me to be supportive of their horrible decision.

If you want people to pull through their pain, you did a terrible job at communicating it.

Comments like "He freaking hung himself. How selfish.", and "I feel that it is the greatest act of selfishness one can commit. It accomplishes nothing but to escape any and all responsibility and dumps it on those left behind to deal with wether they want to or not, wether they can or not.", you know full well you are going to provoke a response.

That you don't bother to qualify it when you make the original statement forces others to come to their own conclusions regarding your remark. If you don't like the conclusion they come to, you should have avoided them from the outset by explaining your position in full, instead of letting people assume, justifiably so, that an insult was made to a person who was suffering from a medical condition.

And yes, "selfish" is considered insulting, being that the implication of the word is almost always used in reference to personal gain of some kind. When a person kills themselves out of complete despair, they aren't gaining anything and they know it.

I still have no idea what you mean by "accidental" suicide, though. Isn't that an oxymoron?

Understanding maybe but supportive, not a chance. Someone even said that suicide is courageous. Good grief! No pun intended there. Courage entails admirability. I'm sorry but give me break.

And suicide is often associated with cowardice, particularly in the manner you are using it, but that is neither here nor there. The main problem here is that you are perpetuating the myth that depression is something imaginary. To refer to a person as selfish for suffering from depression is the same as referring to the family of the victim (yep, victim) as selfish because they all feel horrible and sad at his death. Both claims are equally ridiculous.

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aquatus1
If you have the strength to end your life, you have the strength to set it right. You just have to realize it.

Read that off an empowerment brochure, did you?

Let's try and apply it to other situations:

"If you have the strength to drown, you have the strength to swim. You just have to realize it."

"If you have the strength to live after snapping your spine, you have the strength to walk. You just have to realize it"

"If you have the strength to live to 80, you have the strength to live to 100. You just have to realize it."

No.

Like it or not, we are all subject to the biological reality that is the human body. We are all chemically influenced. Some of use waiver far enough from the norm for it to be an issue, sometimes a fatal one, either by birth or circumstance. Acknowledging the existence of a bell curve isn't the same as demanding support for the people who die. It is, however, a demand for respect for those of us who still live. In the same way that walking into a cancer ward and claiming that a victim of cancer was selfish because they chose to die, either intentionally or because they "didn't realize" they had the strength to fight will likely see you with a blackened eye. Neither the current victims of cancer, nor their friends and relatives would tolerate such an insult.

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Iron_Lotus

and how does one "pull through" when everything is slipping away...

i see people using medications yeah they work for some, for some of us its temporary and makes us worse (me) see a therapist? ok pay a guy whos going to ask me how i feel and why do i feel that way once again when i dont even know and with a great chance of being put on different or more medication yeah that makes me willing to go, more pills yay that's great thanks. Talk to people close to me hmm well what if someone doesn't even have people they trust enough to really open up to or have such crippling fear of opening up they actually cant? what if opening up would actually bring harm to the family over incidents from the past? what about those who have lost so many people in their lives as well as close relationships and so on and have NOTHING and NOBODY, what then? oh thats right think happy thoughts and pull through.... uh huh. keep your fairy tale bs where it belongs, in the crapper.

Since i was a kid i've KNOWN my brain doesn't work like other peoples do, i know something is wrong with me and i know pills will never fix that i doubt much will and you can claim its self doubt and whatever else but frankly it doesn't matter to me. From the migraines to the horrible trainwreck of emotions that i cycle through the absolute crushing hatred i feel for myself, the millions and millions of thoughts that rush in my head every memory every variable and possibility on how i could change what i did or what would of happened if this happened this isnt somebody lost in thought this is someone who has barely a hold on the floodgates i go 4 or 5 days without food or sleep i lose weight and gain it back im destructive and angry it would be to the point where if i even stubbed my toe i would put my foot through a table and huck it around the room and then cry uncontrollably for hours or sink into a hole and not speak or emote at all just nothing shutting down completely.... this isnt a normal functioning human being i dont believe anybody who's normal would ever have to ability to truly shut down

but im selfish if i wanted to end that suffering and be free of it... my comments from the other thread still stand and extend to anybody who feels the way you do.

just so other people here know im doing alright regardless of what happened earlier i'll manage as i always try to and im nowhere near that abyss thank you again for all of your kind words. most of all thank you to everyone who shared so much.

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Stubbly_Dooright

Oh Iron_Lotus, if you could feel my virtual arms around you. And trust me, I sooooo understand you and how you feel. I think it's about time, society really takes a real good hard look at depression and such, and finally, FINALLY does something positive about it. For those who have succumbed, who was there for them? And for those who had loving, caring, and observing people in their lives, why does one had to really hide it so much?

Well, I believe I know the answer to that. Because it is still a stigma to it. Which is wrong! I wish the day was here, where people will understandingly see someone for their emotional and mental well being in the same healthy manner as going to the doctor, dentist, eye doctor for the health of their body. But unfortunately, I don't think I'm going to see that happening any time soon. Why does it take so many to die, to actually have at least discussions about it?

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