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Thoughts on suicide?

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Skep B

Ask someone who's been to that point and didn't do it or didn't successfully die a few years after the fact and I think you'll have your answer. They are glad they didn't. Death is final. While alive there is a possibility of making your life worth living. Once you're dead it's too late. Your common question about suicide shows that you actually have never given it much real thought. Keep it that way. The only legit reason for ending it all is if you have a terminal debilitating disease which is reaching it's final stage and soon you won't have the ability to do it yourself. To kill yourself because you feel like you can't be happy is just mental illness which can be overcome many different ways for the vast majority of people.

Funny you say that, I think about it quite a bit.

WHy? noones's business. But I do, I just don't put stock in the emotional connections people have with suicide.

I agree for what it's worth that death is final and blah blah all that.

But, you're now ok with the idea of terminal illness doing it. So I think that answers my question.

it's a question of priorities. as much as its your choice to end your life, its other peoples individual choices that allows it to affect them one way or another.

Being angry at someone who commits suicide is as emotional a reaction as someone choosing to commit suicide. Neither of them are going to make anyone live a better life.

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Hammerclaw

Mental afflictions are the most maligned and misunderstood of maladies. The normal, the sane so often exhibit discomfort and even hostile indifference to those overwhelmed by emotional despair and deep chronic depression. Showing the bedside manners of General Patton,or crooning paeans of pithy wisdom is often the response; the former being harmful and cruel, the latter, futile in the extreme. Not showing any outward manifestation of illness other than by demeanor is hard for normal people to reconcile with the actual condition of the individual. Only professional treatment can help those with the affliction, for if left untreated, madness and insanity may drive the afflicted to the final solution of ending their life, something no sane person would do. No one in their right mind commits suicide, and it only takes one bout of temporary insanity to do it.

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Blood_Sacrifice

If you haven't been there, you don't get it. I wouldn't bother trying to explain it to someone who has never experienced clinical depression. It's like describing colour to a blind person.

Yeah, agreed. Feelings can't be explained (and made understood) to someone who hasn't experienced them. And actually, come to think of it, depression isn't even a 'feeling' -- it's more like an absence of feeling. Hollowness. Hopelessness. No negative emotions can come close to capturing its horror.

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Neognosis
If a person commits suicide, and it's considered selfish because of the pain some others might feel.

Isn't it selfish of the others to want the individual to keep suffering, just so they won't have to be sad/angry?

said much better than my feeble and overly verbose attempt to say the same thing.

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OverSword

Funny you say that, I think about it quite a bit.

WHy? noones's business. But I do, I just don't put stock in the emotional connections people have with suicide.

I agree for what it's worth that death is final and blah blah all that.

But, you're now ok with the idea of terminal illness doing it. So I think that answers my question.

it's a question of priorities. as much as its your choice to end your life, its other peoples individual choices that allows it to affect them one way or another.

Being angry at someone who commits suicide is as emotional a reaction as someone choosing to commit suicide. Neither of them are going to make anyone live a better life.

Blah blah? So you thought about it quite a bit. Seriously? Anyone who's lived from the age of 13 to 21 can easily make that statement. Ever tried it? Ever drank yourself or took pills to the point where there's a good chance you won't be waking up with just that thought in mind? Not trying to pick on you here, you may have, just a thought.

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Skep B

No I haven't

My ego is such that suicide isn't an option I consider.

Clinically I get it, its the idea that if you don't exist your problems won't either. I can understand that without approving of it or disapproving it.

it's not a way I'd go, because like I said earlier when challenged with a similar question, i'm not an emotional person. Bad things happen, you adapt to deal with it.

Some people don't want to, so they remove themselves from any potential situations.

And yes, Blah, blah. because I didn't feel like pointing out again how suicide is ultimately a waste of opportunities, and it doesn't make logical sense, and it doesn't actually solve an issue its just the person opting out.

To sum up.

I have too big an ego for suicide. I understand suicide in an intellectual sense without having a moral opinion of it. When i don't feel like repeating a point over and over, I put blah blah

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calaf

At one time I could have agreed with you. However, years ago I had an experience which changed my mind completely. Without any discernible cause or precipitating event I suffered an intense bout of depression or anxiety. I have never been able to adequately describe the mental agony I was subjected to. It may have lasted an hour, I will never know and thankfully never repeated. I can tell you now that I understand how someone can take their own life. It is my sincerest wish that none of you experience an episode of that nature even though I'm glad it happened to me. Never belittle the old adage about walking in another man's shoes.

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Neognosis
Some people don't want to, so they remove themselves from any potential situations.

It is not a case of "not wanting to."

Consider an analogy: what if someone tied you in a chair and cut you with a razor blade, and then rubbed lemons on the wounds, repeatedly, for days. And then they told you that they would stop cutting you and rubbing lemons into the wounds if you would press a button mounted near your finger.

Sooner or later, you will press that button if you come to believe that the torture is never going to end, and that pressing the button won't matter to anyone anyhow.

I would also like to point out that EVERYONE breaks under torture, if carried out long enough. This is very much what severe, clinical depression is like. Either the depression ends, or enough time goes by under the strain and you WILL break.

I doubt that one can disagree if they have ever been that depressed.

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XenoFish

I've said my piece concerning this thread. Guess it's easy to cast stone when you don't know what a persons life had been like. We all have problems and some of us learn to overcome them.

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Hammerclaw

I've said my piece concerning this thread. Guess it's easy to cast stone when you don't know what a persons life had been like. We all have problems and some of us learn to overcome them.

You have a good heart and your insight is appreciated. Edited by John Wesley Boyd
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Likely Guy

It's never right to end one's life for the sake of their own depression. For, if they do, don't they extend that sadness and depression to their family and friends?

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DecoNoir

It's never right to end one's life for the sake of their own depression. For, if they do, don't they extend that sadness and depression to their family and friends?

Just speaking from experience here, sometimes a person is at that point were they feel that their death will be a relief to those closest to them. Especially true if the family is completely oblivious (or down right intentionally ignorant) of their own suffering.

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aquatus1
It's never right to end one's life for the sake of their own depression. For, if they do, don't they extend that sadness and depression to their family and friends?

That's kind of the thing about suicide due to clinical depression. Reason, logic, none of that works properly. The self-preservation mechanism of the brain is compromised. I don't really find it something that can be properly referred to as "right", "wrong", "selfish", "brave", whatever. If the car is out of control, a person can stay in and try to guide it to a stop, or they can throw up their hands up in the air and shout Jesus take the wheel, but I can't really say that either action will change the outcome or that either action is based on "right" or "wrong".

As for non-clinical suicide...I'm of two minds (pun intended). On the one hand, I agree the reasons behind it tend to be fleeting and pretty specious to begin with. That said, it has been a long time since I have had to deal with teenage angst, and I personally never suffered the heartbreak of being dumped, so I have no idea how the inexperienced teen soul might be hurt by it.

I can't help but feel that selfish reasons result in selfish suicide. Suicide, in and of itself, is a bit too broad to have "selfishness" be an inherent property.

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Emma_Acid

It's never right to end one's life for the sake of their own depression. For, if they do, don't they extend that sadness and depression to their family and friends?

When it comes to clinical, chronic depression and suicide, trust me, family and friends feel as distant as strangers. They just don't exist.

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Blood_Sacrifice

To add to everything others have said, people need to differentiate between suicide the act and the people committing suicide. I don't morally condone suicide, and would rather (if possible) help the person who is trying to take his life away, however that doesn't mean I think the person is some selfish cow who deserves no sympathy.Similarly, even if some of you believe suicide as an act is despicable, that doesn't mean the person committing the act is bad.

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MrBene

Btw, if someone is facing or dealing with depression, need to talk or whatever, just pm me, I can offer some help, an ear, a shoulder, whatever you need.

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Hammerclaw

Sometimes suicide is like jumping out of a burning building, as an example and an analogy. It's certain death but at the time, to a deranged mind, it's infinitely preferable to staying and enduring the pain.

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lightly

I've been fortunate to have been relatively happy most of my life... but i remember considering suicide around age 15 ( i think it was) I just remember suddenly being filled with a powerful fear of the future , and "adulthood" and a feeling that it would be impossible . I guess it was just some sort of extreme panic attack or something, because it didn't seem too last long. But i remember how afraid i suddenly was of the future at that age.. and Not facing it almost seemed to make sense !

i suppose lots of kids go through it? .. but some don't make it past that temporary intense fear of the future? .. teen suicide is tragically common.

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Neognosis

Good on ya, mr bene.

You have shamed me and made me realize that I continue to fail in even the most basic opportunities to be a better person. I will try harder.

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Emma_Acid

Sometimes suicide is like jumping out of a burning building, as an example and an analogy. It's certain death but at the time, to a deranged mind, it's infinitely preferable to staying and enduring the pain.

I really wish you'd stop drawing parallels between being depressed/suicidal and being insane/deranged. They are not the same thing.

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Stubbly_Dooright

I've been fortunate to have been relatively happy most of my life... but i remember considering suicide around age 15 ( i think it was) I just remember suddenly being filled with a powerful fear of the future , and "adulthood" and a feeling that it would be impossible . I guess it was just some sort of extreme panic attack or something, because it didn't seem too last long. But i remember how afraid i suddenly was of the future at that age.. and Not facing it almost seemed to make sense !

i suppose lots of kids go through it? .. but some don't make it past that temporary intense fear of the future? .. teen suicide is tragically common.

I think it could be, I don't know. But what you described what you went through, seems similar to what I went through countless times. I don't know if it should be describe as an anxiety attack or not, but I would have those feelings coupled with paralyzing bouts of unable to swallow food and lack of energy and such. Always came on after a life changing situation good or bad. I try to keep myself preoccupied during such now, but it's hard work, and I don't think it always works. I'm glad you hadn't had such attacks since.
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Silent Trinity

A difficult and very emotive subject. When someone commits suicide we look at it from our point of view and we say 'how could they do that? They had all that money and a big house, and what about the children?'... problem is we look at it from our point of view and we do not know what they are going through, or what is going on in their mind. That is the biggest pitfall of the subject.

Mental illness, depression, extreme stress, a bad experience....all things that cause people to react in different ways, and I think once a person arrives at a point where they feel it will never end or they cannot see a way out then they begin to contemplate this most final of solutions.

I do not think suicide is cowardice, I think that is a lack of understanding that just because your mind doesn't work that way that everyone else's mind is the same. To us it would be a cowardly way out perhaps, to them it may be the ONLY way out.

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XenoFish

In a way I can understand someone's suicide if they came from a childhood of mental, physical, and/or sexual abuse. Something that even with years of therapy couldn't help. Mental illness and heavy depression. If therapy and medication couldn't put a dent in it. What I don't see as being "ok" is when there are pathetic reason for doing it. Your boy/girlfriend breaks up with you or you lost your job, being bullied. Theses things have easier solutions. I still say it's a choice what you do with your life and how you handle it. I'm not going to say yea or nea to your choice. Simply because it yours and yours alone.

The reason I sound like a self-empowerment guru is because that's what pulled me out of my darkest spot. I read a lot of books to keep my mind off of things.Along with the love and support of friends and family.

Edited by XenoFish
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Hammerclaw

I really wish you'd stop drawing parallels between being depressed/suicidal and being insane/deranged. They are not the same thing.

I've been there, have you?

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Paranoid Android

In a way I can understand someone's suicide if they came from a childhood of mental, physical, and/or sexual abuse. Something that even with years of therapy couldn't help. Mental illness and heavy depression. If therapy and medication couldn't put a dent in it. What I don't see as being "ok" is when there are pathetic reason for doing it. Your boy/girlfriend breaks up with you or you lost your job, being bullied. Theses things have easier solutions. I still say it's a choice what you do with your life and how you handle it. I'm not going to say yea or nea to your choice. Simply because it yours and yours alone.

The reason I sound like a self-empowerment guru is because that's what pulled me out of my darkest spot. I read a lot of books to keep my mind off of things.Along with the love and support of friends and family.

I agree to a point, xeno, but only a point. I've shared already that my mother attempted suicide before I was born. She was a victim of sexual abuse as a kid, so in that sense I agree. However, she was also bullied and shunned in school. She had a fungal ear infection that was untreatable, that eventually ate away the bones in her ear drum. The downside to this made her completely deaf in one ear. The downer side was that her ear drum was literally decomposing, in the most literal sense she smelled like a rotting corpse, and the doctors couldn't do a thing. But kids can. And they did. Cruel things. Over and again. This, along with her sexual abuse put her in a state I can only hope I never reach.

I was never abused. But I did develop cognitively slower than everyone my age. In year 2, I was trying to finish page 1 of my work when everyone else had finished 5 pages. One of my earliest memories is sheer pride for getting a sticker with the word "brilliant" on it, just because I finished my work when everyone else did - Ms Bacarles, my year 2 teacher, thank you. Academically I was fine after that, but emotionally and cognitively I was behind everyone. While I thought picking on girls was fine like a 10-year old, my 13-year old classmates thought I was a douche. Rightly so, in hindsight. But 13 year old kids don't how to reasonably deal with me, so they picked on me. As did they in younger years, I remember going on a camp in primary school and everyone did their own thing, I played football (Rugby League). With myself. I picked the ball up, passed to myself. Ran back to pick up the ball. pretended to get tackled. Passed to myself a dozen times over, dodged a tackle, and dived over for the greatest team try in history. By myself.

As I developed I caught up with my class cognitively, but it's hard now to make friends with people who literally attacked you with a soldering iron because they thought you were annoying and didn't know why. I never thought about suicide, but j did call an anonymous Children's Help Line in tears because I believed I had no friends and no one who cared to listen.

To a mild-moderate degree I still have these feelings of worthlessness, and I can only imagine how I'd be if I didn't have parents who loved me unconditionally and gave me my life to explore. So to your comment, sometimes being bullied is a clear trigger to depression and suicide, not due to a "woe me" mentality but simply because kids can be cruel to those who are different, and that can affect you for your entire life. If I had parents who didn't care, or who exacerbated my problems I could be a statistic just as much as Robin Williams has become.

In closing, I suppose I'll Thank God for such massively awesome parents. While some of your comments are ok, I think if unfair to dismiss bullying as a valid concern for depression

Edited by Paranoid Android
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