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LucidElement

What the ISIS is going on!?

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Gromdor

Ten years, a few thousand American lives, and a few trillion dollars and we still haven't even taken out Al Qaida or the Taliban. What makes you think the same methods will have a different result for ISIS?

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Ten years, a few thousand American lives, and a few trillion dollars and we still haven't even taken out Al Qaida or the Taliban. What makes you think the same methods will have a different result for ISIS?

And your answer? Sometimes you fight even if you KNOW you will lose - because it's the right thing to do. If your answer is to just let these thugs do as they will then frankly, you leave me speechless.
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Gromdor

And your answer? Sometimes you fight even if you KNOW you will lose - because it's the right thing to do. If your answer is to just let these thugs do as they will then frankly, you leave me speechless.

Not all problems are ours to solve. They can only be solved by the people themselves.

Your solution wastes money and lives. It was what created ISIS (and the Taliban and AL Qaida) and gave them strength.

We need to stop creating these thugs and empowering them.

The first step is learning from our mistakes and not repeating them over and over.

I have no problem clearing a path for refugees to escape and giving them aid.

Interfering in a power struggle between Iran/Assad, ISIS, and the Kurds over the gutted remains of Iraq doesn't interest me as much.

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RoofGardener

Ten years, a few thousand American lives, and a few trillion dollars and we still haven't even taken out Al Qaida or the Taliban. What makes you think the same methods will have a different result for ISIS?

I think that is unduly pessimistic. The assassination of Obama bin Laden sent a message: "If you kill Americans, we will hunt you to the ends of the earth".

The Israeli's did this in the aftermath of the Munich atrocity, and again after their ambassador was attacked. The PLO got the message, and stopped assassination attempts. Hehzbollah learned a similar lesson from the 2006 Lebanon incursion, and behaved themselves thereafter. (well... mostly).

As for ISIS... well.... it's difficult to judge, as we don't know much about their leadership connections.

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LucidElement

Not all problems are ours to solve. They can only be solved by the people themselves.

Your solution wastes money and lives. It was what created ISIS (and the Taliban and AL Qaida) and gave them strength.

We need to stop creating these thugs and empowering them.

The first step is learning from our mistakes and not repeating them over and over.

I have no problem clearing a path for refugees to escape and giving them aid.

Interfering in a power struggle between Iran/Assad, ISIS, and the Kurds over the gutted remains of Iraq doesn't interest me as much.

Well you have no problem clearing a path and helping refugees. However, if we continue to do that then we are interferring. If we stop interferring (airstrikes) and helping refugees then ISIS will continue their mass genocide. You cant have it both ways. Edited by LucidElement

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Not all problems are ours to solve. They can only be solved by the people themselves.

Your solution wastes money and lives. It was what created ISIS (and the Taliban and AL Qaida) and gave them strength.

We need to stop creating these thugs and empowering them.

The first step is learning from our mistakes and not repeating them over and over.

I have no problem clearing a path for refugees to escape and giving them aid.

Interfering in a power struggle between Iran/Assad, ISIS, and the Kurds over the gutted remains of Iraq doesn't interest me as much.

Did you even know who the Taliban or al Qaeda were in 2000? The approach you take is like sleeping through a fire alarm. But if that is the way you feel then good luck with it. Hopefully America will keep at least a few leaders with strength and vision. It is illustrative of where America is leadership wise that fewer than 20 thousand irregulars could be running amuck in a place we spent a trillion and 5 thousand lives on because our so called cinc hasn't the political stones to stand up for anything his base disapproves of. He is the absolute WORST excuse for a president this country has EVER elected.
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LucidElement

And ISIS realizes this, hence why they figure the best time to expand in Iraq is today. As well as Putin and Hamas. U.S is getting walked on because they know the worst thing that happens is pretty much nothing. We had Iraq in good form, the pulling of our troops was the biggest mistake, because it shows that the soldiers died for nothing. They fought to give peace back to Iraq and help set up a government. However, leaving some troops in Iraq would have solidified the situtation. Right when Obama pulled out our troops ISIS took over. You know damn well that wouldn't have happened if he kept some of our troops there.

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Shiloh17

And your answer? Sometimes you fight even if you KNOW you will lose - because it's the right thing to do. If your answer is to just let these thugs do as they will then frankly, you leave me speechless.

Funny, how Dick Cheney used the words to justify the invasion of Iraq. it was the right thing to do.

I don't think the Middle east would be in the situation it is, had Bush and Cheney left Iraq alone.

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Gromdor

Did you even know who the Taliban or al Qaeda were in 2000? The approach you take is like sleeping through a fire alarm. But if that is the way you feel then good luck with it. Hopefully America will keep at least a few leaders with strength and vision. It is illustrative of where America is leadership wise that fewer than 20 thousand irregulars could be running amuck in a place we spent a trillion and 5 thousand lives on because our so called cinc hasn't the political stones to stand up for anything his base disapproves of. He is the absolute WORST excuse for a president this country has EVER elected.

You forget that I am a Gulf War Veteran. I was bombing Iraq in 1990.........

And yes, I watched the mujahedeen fight the Russians and cheered with everyone else during the 80's and paid attention to the news as they slowly turned into the Taliban. I cheered when Reagan gave them aid with Operation Cyclone to help them defeat the evil Soviets. I was there cheering as the Soviets left and the Taliban took over. I admit that I was a little sad when they started blowing up the Big Buddha statues, but they were our friends! I was a little sad when they embraced radical Islam and started oppressing women. But Rambo III! They are our allies!

Then 911 happened and the Taliban refused to turn over Bin Laden. Some friends, huh?

Now you want to help who? The Syrians? The Iranians? The Kurds?

What makes me sad is that I think you were the one sleeping through everything since Vietnam. Your answer to problems is, "Who do we need to kill?" without even considering, "What happens after we kill them?".

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spartan max2

You forget that I am a Gulf War Veteran. I was bombing Iraq in 1990.........

And yes, I watched the mujahedeen fight the Russians and cheered with everyone else during the 80's and paid attention to the news as they slowly turned into the Taliban. I cheered when Reagan gave them aid with Operation Cyclone to help them defeat the evil Soviets. I was there cheering as the Soviets left and the Taliban took over. I admit that I was a little sad when they started blowing up the Big Buddha statues, but they were our friends! I was a little sad when they embraced radical Islam and started oppressing women. But Rambo III! They are our allies!

Then 911 happened and the Taliban refused to turn over Bin Laden. Some friends, huh?

Now you want to help who? The Syrians? The Iranians? The Kurds?

What makes me sad is that I think you were the one sleeping through everything since Vietnam. Your answer to problems is, "Who do we need to kill?" without even considering, "What happens after we kill them?".

My question for you though is if we didnt help get the soviets out what do you think would of happened?

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Funny, how Dick Cheney used the words to justify the invasion of Iraq. it was the right thing to do.

I don't think the Middle east would be in the situation it is, had Bush and Cheney left Iraq alone.

So this applies to the current slaughter of civilians, how? Bush/ Cheney EVIL!!!!! AND THEN? AND WHAT? Let thousands die horrible deaths just to show how stupid other leaders are? That seems evil to me.

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You forget that I am a Gulf War Veteran. I was bombing Iraq in 1990.........

And yes, I watched the mujahedeen fight the Russians and cheered with everyone else during the 80's and paid attention to the news as they slowly turned into the Taliban. I cheered when Reagan gave them aid with Operation Cyclone to help them defeat the evil Soviets. I was there cheering as the Soviets left and the Taliban took over. I admit that I was a little sad when they started blowing up the Big Buddha statues, but they were our friends! I was a little sad when they embraced radical Islam and started oppressing women. But Rambo III! They are our allies!

Then 911 happened and the Taliban refused to turn over Bin Laden. Some friends, huh?

Now you want to help who? The Syrians? The Iranians? The Kurds?

What makes me sad is that I think you were the one sleeping through everything since Vietnam. Your answer to problems is, "Who do we need to kill?" without even considering, "What happens after we kill them?".

We might make a misstep so we shouldn't effect any change in the world at all? Everything anyone here says about the Iraq situation being a mistake in the way it was handled I will agree with. What I'm talking about is basic human decency - exactly BECAUSE we screwed the place up, we owe it to the innocents being butchered by ISIS. And if we were being really honest I think the blame for this particular tragedy is on the current CINC's shoulders. Leaving even a token force in place would have prevented it.
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Gromdor

My question for you though is if we didnt help get the soviets out what do you think would of happened?

9-11 could have quite possibly taken place in Moscow.

We might make a misstep so we shouldn't effect any change in the world at all? Everything anyone here says about the Iraq situation being a mistake in the way it was handled I will agree with. What I'm talking about is basic human decency - exactly BECAUSE we screwed the place up, we owe it to the innocents being butchered by ISIS. And if we were being really honest I think the blame for this particular tragedy is on the current CINC's shoulders. Leaving even a token force in place would have prevented it.

It is better to do nothing than to do the wrong thing.

Ironically, I blame the current situation on those with your mindset. Those who take action without any thought of consequence.

Don't get me wrong. We will have to do something about ISIS. Just not the same failed actions we have been doing for the last half century.

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LucidElement

Funny, how Dick Cheney used the words to justify the invasion of Iraq. it was the right thing to do.

I don't think the Middle east would be in the situation it is, had Bush and Cheney left Iraq alone.

Saddam would have killed thousands of more innocent people. Of course Iraq would be in this situation. Al-Qaeda was well on its way as well. Iraq was murdering people well b4 the U.S got there.
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Shiloh17

So this applies to the current slaughter of civilians, how? Bush/ Cheney EVIL!!!!! AND THEN? AND WHAT? Let thousands die horrible deaths just to show how stupid other leaders are? That seems evil to me.

I was simply stating ISIS probably wouldn't be around. If I was President, I would put boots on the ground, keep the media out, throw political correctness out the window, and give our troops a license to exterminate with extreme prejudice.

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I was simply stating ISIS probably wouldn't be around. If I was President, I would put boots on the ground, keep the media out, throw political correctness out the window, and give our troops a license to exterminate with extreme prejudice.

My apologies. I misunderstood the point you were making. Many here seem more interested in continuing to heap (deserved) blame on the US rather than support an attempt to right some of the wrong that was done and help these poor people being slaughtered.
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Shiloh17

My apologies. I misunderstood the point you were making. Many here seem more interested in continuing to heap (deserved) blame on the US rather than support an attempt to right some of the wrong that was done and help these poor people being slaughtered.

No problem. Yes, they need our help, boots on the ground. Cut off every roadway in and out of Iraq, roadblocks in and out of cities, etc.. cut them off. And I'm talking extreme roadblocks, 100's of troops, concrete barriers to shield suicide bombers, tanks etc. And the borders patrolled by attack helicopters to handle those who go around the roadblock.

Of course this is wishful thinking.

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No problem. Yes, they need our help, boots on the ground. Cut off every roadway in and out of Iraq, roadblocks in and out of cities, etc.. cut them off. And I'm talking extreme roadblocks, 100's of troops, concrete barriers to shield suicide bombers, tanks etc. And the borders patrolled by attack helicopters to handle those who go around the roadblock.

Of course this is wishful thinking.

Our current president is going to preside over the worst single loss of American life in our history by a foreign force on our own territory. I really believe this. When ISIS members finish their training in Syria and Iraq some will eventually make their way back and make 9-11 seem like a pin prick.
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LucidElement

New news .. 90 Yazidis killed and ISIS has kidnapped woman and children....so Isis is still at it... ISIS is a till going on strong... However it was just now announced also, U.S airstrikes have continued to eliminate ISIS areas (which means ISIS members). So maybe this situation is finally going on from the air. But at the same time, the fact that Obama is playing golf at Martha's Vineyard and on vacation still upsets me.. There is a mass genoicde going on.

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Imaginarynumber1

Did you even know who the Taliban or al Qaeda were in 2000?

I did cause I've seen Rambo 3.

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I did cause I've seen Rambo 3.

Cute... the point I was trying to make is that dismissing a potential threat because no one has heard of them isn't a very sound approach. No need to panic and act stupid, but to ignore them is foolhardy.
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LucidElement

Its going to get real interesting this weekend I think. Now that ISIS has killed 90 Yazidis and kidnapped children and woman! Like i said earlier...

The U.S. military conducted new airstrikes against Islamic militants Friday as sources tell Fox News members of the group killed at least 90 male members of Iraq's Yazidi minority in a northern village and kidnapped "dozens" of women and children.

However, U.S drones have been bombing the ISIS areas where this was happening after these reports were announced.

Think about how many of these terrorist type ISIS members have died due to airstrikes, so thats a positive. I hope some ISIS members with brains realize it wont be so easy to run-a-muck as they though.

Edited by LucidElement

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LucidElement

Something else you may find interesting...These weapons ISIS took over from the fleeing Iraqi militants.

As ISIS Routs The Iraqi Army, Here's A Look At What The Jihadists Have In Their Arsenal

Edited by LucidElement

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Gromdor

Impressive isn't it? Between the armaments and the money they got from the central bank in Mosul, they are now equivalent to a full fledged national army. Figure in the funding they are still getting from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Qatar and they are pretty much set for cash. They are media savvy and radical Sunni's in Iraq, Syria, and elsewhere readily embrace them.

However, they are p***ing off a lot of different people. Assad and the Iranians, the Shiite majority in Iraq, the Kurds, the Yazidi, and of course even Israel is keeping an eye in their direction. Even moderate Sunni's are starting to decry them.

They are trying to build a state in Iraq/Syria. Exactly what we were trying to do. The problem our politicians seem to have is understanding that you can't build a country for someone else. They have to build it themselves. They have to fight for it themselves. ISIS is the perfect crucible for that. We can let the Iraqis fight and win their own country or we can go back in and create another paper puppet state that throws down the armaments we gave them at their oppressors feet as they kneel down to be shot in the head.

And don't forget the last time we "helped", we killed a lot more civilians than 90. Experts put that number closer to half a million.

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Impressive isn't it? Between the armaments and the money they got from the central bank in Mosul, they are now equivalent to a full fledged national army. Figure in the funding they are still getting from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Qatar and they are pretty much set for cash. They are media savvy and radical Sunni's in Iraq, Syria, and elsewhere readily embrace them.

However, they are p***ing off a lot of different people. Assad and the Iranians, the Shiite majority in Iraq, the Kurds, the Yazidi, and of course even Israel is keeping an eye in their direction. Even moderate Sunni's are starting to decry them.

They are trying to build a state in Iraq/Syria. Exactly what we were trying to do. The problem our politicians seem to have is understanding that you can't build a country for someone else. They have to build it themselves. They have to fight for it themselves. ISIS is the perfect crucible for that. We can let the Iraqis fight and win their own country or we can go back in and create another paper puppet state that throws down the armaments we gave them at their oppressors feet as they kneel down to be shot in the head.

And don't forget the last time we "helped", we killed a lot more civilians than 90. Experts put that number closer to half a million.

Man you actually seem to be saying - just leave them alone and let them build their state. Is that right?

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