The Reality of Evil

[Beany]

I'm with StarMountainKid, I don't think evil has an existence independent of humans. Certainly there are people who have done horrendous things, but they are at the extreme end of human behavior. No one really knows why they do these things, but it's an all too human behavior. I'm not comfortable blaming it on "evil" or the devil, I think it's an easy explanation for a very complicated issue, that if we take the time to work through it, or understand it, might become more effective at identifying such behavior early and maybe prevent future tragedy.

[Rlyeh]

Love and evil are revealed morally. Evil is moral rebellion , against God. God is Love.

Like collecting sticks on the Sabbath.

[Alan McDougall]

I'm with StarMountainKid, I don't think evil has an existence independent of humans. Certainly there are people who have done horrendous things, but they are at the extreme end of human behavior. No one really knows why they do these things, but it's an all too human behavior. I'm not comfortable blaming it on "evil" or the devil, I think it's an easy explanation for a very complicated issue, that if we take the time to work through it, or understand it, might become more effective at identifying such behavior early and maybe prevent future tragedy.

Then be brave and admit that some humans are intrinsically evil of course there are the question of nurture or nature?

[theotherguy]

Since there seems to now be an implied definition of evil, I will say that humans can be evil. Humanity can't, any more than any other species.

[Alan McDougall]

Since there seems to now be an implied definition of evil, I will say that humans can be evil. Humanity can't, any more than any other species.

Really which animals does evil like humans going to war World War 11, killing 60 million of their fellow species in the process. Where do you find an animal serial killer who murders and rapes to get a sexual high?

[Skep B]

considering we cant speak w/ the animals to know their motivation, there's no way to know that isn't a motivating factor.

[theotherguy]

Really which animals does evil like humans going to war World War 11, killing 60 million of their fellow species in the process. Where do you find an animal serial killer who murders and rapes to get a sexual high?

The serial killer you use as an example corresponds to a human being evil, not to humanity as a whole. Simply because you can use that as an example and expect me to be repulsed by the idea, as I am, is proof that evil is not inherent to all humans. Are you, Alan McDougall, repulsed by the idea of a serial rapist/killer? Do you consider yourself evil? If not, then you are not evil. Do you have the potential to be evil? Let's hope you never need to find out.

As for the World War II, I propose that humans are as vicious and selfish as any shark, lion, or other territorial species. If a shark could use an AK-47 to clear space for itself by murdering other sharks or the occasional passing whale, I suspect I would--it has the capacity and desire for bloodshed required. Would other sharks find that reprehensible? I have no idea.

To return to the original posted question, humans have the capacity for evil. Humanity as a species does not. Other animals would have the capacity to be evil, if they had the moral intelligence required.

I should take a moment to emphasize that these are simply guesses, since obviously nobody has given a shark an AK-47 just to find out what happens.

Edited August 24, 2014 by theotherguy

[markdohle]

"Good" and "Evil" are just words and definitions we apply to behavior. There exists no "good" or "evil" outside these mental concepts, there is just behavior.

Hitler is considered evil, but to Adolf, he was just doing the right thing according to his worldview, behaving normally. Many of his followers did not consider him evil, or themselves evil.

Only those who disagree with Hitler's behavior believe him evil. In this sense there is no personal evil behavior, only behavior others consider evil.

What I like about you is that your consistent. Though I don't agree with you much of the time ;-).

Peace

mark

[White Crane Feather]

We are talking about cultural relativism here.

In one remote tribe it's perfectly acceptable to eat the brain of a dead grand mother to obtain her wisdom.

In others there are practices so hainouse to our senses that we would put people in prison for a long time here.

Unless we are going to force people to accept our religous beliefs, what is "evil" is decided on by cultural decisions and contracts for good or ill.

[toyomotor]

Evil is an attribute only found in humans? Do you agree or Not?

Disregarding the posts so far, let's define the word "Evil"

https://www.google.c...V7Xc&gws_rd=ssl

adjective: evil

profoundly immoral and wicked.

"his evil deeds"

synonyms:

wicked

,

bad

,

wrong

, morally wrong,

wrongful

,

immoral

,

sinful

,

ungodly

,

unholy

,

foul

,

vile

,

base

,

ignoble

,

dishonourable

,

corrupt

,

iniquitous

,

depraved

,

degenerate

,

villainous

,

nefarious

,

sinister

,

vicious

,

malicious

,

malevolent

,

demonic

,

devilish

,

diabolic

,

diabolical

,

fiendish

,

dark

,

black-hearted

;

And from the above, we can see that it's a very subjective word. To qualify what is or is not evil, one needs a standard to judge the subject by, morally is a word often used in conjunction with evil.

But "moral" in itself is a word which means different things to different people, different cultures. What is moral for one may be immoral for the other, let's take polygamy as an example.

Cannabalism is certainly immoral in the western world, but could be acceptable in some civilisations.

So the word 'evil" must be used as a comparison with what a particular society accepts as a "norm".

Edited August 26, 2014 by toyomotor

[Astra.]

Depends on the scale. Humans are alone in planning the total destruction of a group they don't like. On the other hand, many species of ants use other ants as slaves, lions kill their rivals' children, and chimpanzees will happily create distractions to steal food. How are you defining evil?

Insects and animals can't be classed as being evil.....they do what is natural to them.

If a man swims in the ocean with a Great White shark....and the shark decides to eat him.....does that make the shark evil ?

I think not, he was doing what his natural instinct required.

The difference between man, insect or beast....is that man developed a bigger brain, and therefore a conscience.

The guiding recognition of what's right or wrong.

Out of all the species on this planet....is it not man who commits deplorable acts against humanity, is it not man who murders out of greed, jealousy,

anger or rage ?

Is it not man who commits atrocities against children?

Defining evil, comes in many forms.

I put man at the top of the list where the word evil may be appropriately used and expressed.

[toyomotor]

There is only one living thing on earth which kills purely for the pleasure of it. Man!

[Alan McDougall]

Insects and animals can't be classed as being evil.....they do what is natural to them.

If a man swims in the ocean with a Great White shark....and the shark decides to eat him.....does that make the shark evil ?

I think not, he was doing what his natural instinct required.

The difference between man, insect or beast....is that man developed a bigger brain, and therefore a conscience.

The guiding recognition of what's right or wrong.

Out of all the species on this planet....is it not man who commits deplorable acts against humanity, is it not man who murders out of greed, jealousy,

anger or rage ?

Is it not man who commits atrocities against children?

Defining evil, comes in many forms.

I put man at the top of the list where the word evil may be appropriately used and expressed.

Exactly summed up nicely!

[back to earth]

That takes "culture' . 'Evil' arises in 'culture' for various reasons. Animals dont have culture ... although some perceive animals have evil or bad behavior .

Even within culture evil can be seen as relative to and in context of a culture. In this case evil can equate with sin ( or taboo breaking, etc), thats why I like to consider this definition in relation to 'evil' or 'sin', for a subjective application ;

" Nevertheless have the greatest self-respect, and to that end sin not against thyself. The sin which is unpardonable is knowingly and wilfully to reject truth, to fear knowledge lest that knowledge pander not to thy prejudice. "

Edited August 27, 2014 by back to earth

[Alan McDougall]

That takes "culture' . 'Evil' arises in 'culture' for various reasons. Animals dont have culture ... although some perceive animals have evil or bad behavior .

Even within culture evil can be seen as relative to and in context of a culture. In this case evil can equate with sin ( or taboo breaking, etc), thats why I like to consider this definition in relation to 'evil' or 'sin', for a subjective application ;

" Nevertheless have the greatest self-respect, and to that end sin not against thyself. The sin which is unpardonable is knowingly and wilfully to reject truth, to fear knowledge lest that knowledge pander not to thy prejudice. "

You have got to know exactly what the truth is, before you can be judged guilty of transgressing it!

[back to earth]

Thats true

I should have said 'what one knows to be true' ....

ermmm ....

'what one thinks is true' ?

Anyway ... I think its true that birds are not evil (although my friend now thinks butcher birds are evil and cruel after she asked me why this cute little fellah has a beak like he does ... and I told her - but he isnt evil ... and thats true

Now people ... when they are evil, well they are just evil , in a collective subjective sense. But in a bigger picture we may see (and understand) some of their abhorrent behavior as a manifestation of inverted 'psyche needs' * or agents of 'devolution'.

* See Harpurs writings on serial killers and other maniacs being an inverse expression of suppressed shamanic themes -

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=TZoml3B4PSEC&pg=PA326&lpg=PA326&dq=Patrick+Harpur+serial+killers+and+shamans&source=bl&ots=dhw8YaiHEA&sig=sb_PwcZPDuItyvgdJnhFV1LjHLg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FIH9U9eQOYLIuATkgoG4Bg&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Patrick%20Harpur%20serial%20killers%20and%20shamans&f=false

Edited August 27, 2014 by back to earth

[toyomotor]

Truth is what one believes to be true, but which can be denied at the drop of a hat.

[Alan McDougall]

Truth is what one believes to be true, but which can be denied at the drop of a hat.

No it is not, truth has nothing to do with belief.

[StarMountainKid]

You have got to know exactly what the truth is, before you can be judged guilty of transgressing it!

No it is not, truth has nothing to do with belief.

Truth is what one believes to be true, but which can be denied at the drop of a hat.

An axiom or postulate is a premise or starting point of reasoning. As classically conceived, an axiom is a premise so evident as to be accepted as true without controversy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom

Just saying.

[Sundew]

If you take life in a Christian context, evil started with the fall of Lucifer (Satan) who subsequently caused the rebellion of man through his temptation to "be like God." From this rebellion springs all of human history in its blood and gore, starting with the first murder between brothers Cain and Able right up to today's wars raging around the globe.

From a materialistic view, we are not the only animal that kills for fun; cats, otters, dolphin and others also can be nasty creatures, however whether they have an understanding that what they are doing is bad for their victims is another matter. Humans are, or at least should be, self aware that our actions effect others and presumable if you go with the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" statement, these individuals we consider evil would not want their atrocities committed against their own person. To understand this and still commit acts of violence against your fellow human being sounds like evil to me.

[Border Collie]

Then be brave and admit that some humans are intrinsically evil of course there are the question of nurture or nature?

No. Absolutely not. No human is intrinsically evil.

[Alan McDougall]

No. Absolutely not. No human is intrinsically evil.

How do you know that as a fact, one of the most eminent criminal psychologist/psychiatrist, who studies the life of serial murders, has a rating or scale of evil. It ranges from the least evil at 1 to the worst evil at 22. He certainly believes in the existence of evil.

[back to earth]

I still maintain it is a cultural thing, because we (most of us I think) dont see animals as evil and we are the only cultural animal. so then, if it is a force in culture ... what is its function ? ... for me is the crucial question. As I believe one needs to treat the problem at the root ...maintain the right balance and it should not emerge.

Eg. I have done some studies where a culture seems to incorporate the epitome of kindness, empathy, consideration and love; a hunter would never touch his hunt unless he was so exhausted from the process he needed to drink some fresh blood for the energy to be able to take the meat home; elders and children were given first share and the hunters would wait until they finished. Within the space of one generation hunters would sit off in the bush and eat so much of the hunt, they would have to vomit to be able to eat it all, then come home and tell their family they didnt catch anything, then secretly boast to the other hunters about it. The tribal oldest lady (who was blind) tripped and fell in the fire, they laughed at her as she rolled around in the coals and hit her with sticks. A little girl got in to trouble for sharing her meagre food supply with another hungry child, her parents locked her in a hut ... and just left her there ... the anthropologist who wrote this report said her remains were still in there rotting.

It seemed to me evil had spread through this tribe ... yet they had no reports of attacks or invasion from witches or sorcerers ...

Is this evil behaviour ... if it isnt it is close to it , and something caused a pretty severe turn around within one generation ;

http://illadvised.blogspot.com.au/2006/08/book-colin-turnbull-mountain-people.html

I classify this as an inverse social dynamic and occurs when cultures enter phase of decline and decay, its for specific reasons and manifests in set stages and patterns.

Western society is in the mid stages of it at present.

But there is another type of what we may consider evil - in a society that is quiet healthy in itself ... its what they do to others.

Self harm is self destructive 'evil' and we can pretty much sympathise with that, but when it is done to others ..

(Cant remember the name, going of memory here.) The .... tribe in New Guinea have what is called 'the supreme insult' ; basically, you are at war, during that war, you capture some prominent elders from the other side and kill them, butcher them and preserve their meat, next you engineer a peace and wait until you build security and trust ( which might take many many years ), eventually you invite the others to a feast and in the middle of it turn on them, tell them they have just eaten their grand parents and attack and kill them.

I cant find any social internal, or natural need for that other than sheer bastardry and yes, its probably evil ... that isnt even 'slightly excusable' like the Plight of the Ik may be.

The other type of evil that results from twisted internal psychological issues ... Idi Amin's story ( history of how he got to be what he was and what he ended up doing) is the classic ... but I will spare you the details.

[Sundew]

No. Absolutely not. No human is intrinsically evil.

A two year old can be defiant, throw a tantrum, demand its own way. Small children lie, cheat, steal, attack another children; some have even committed murder. It is possible that we are all intrinsically evil, it is only because of laws, morals, teaching and the like that we may rise above our baser instincts. Whether you take the religious view that man is a fallen creature or the materialist view that man operates on the principles of survival of the fittest, people can be pretty nasty.

If one considers Germany, they went from being a nearly 100% literate society, of fine craftsmen and musicians like J.S. Bach, yet within a few generations the Nazis were marching across Europe. Millions died in their wake. The Germans of Bach's day would have never thought that possible. Evil in never far below the surface, sometimes it just takes the right catalyst, something we should all remember.

[XenoFish]

If I ever choose to go darkside, I'd murder rapist, child molesters, and other killers. My alignment would be lawful evil.