qxcontinuum Posted August 22, 2014 #1 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_(moon) I am failing to understand why Nasa is sending another rover on Mars after like 5 of them instead sending one to Europa. There are millions reasons to do so. "Slightly smaller than the Moon, Europa is primarily made of silicate rock and probably has an iron core. It has a tenuous atmosphere composed primarily of oxygen. Its surface is composed of water ice and is one of the smoothest in the Solar System.[10] This surface is striated by cracks and streaks, whereas craters are relatively rare. The apparent youth and smoothness of the surface have led to the hypothesis that a water ocean exists beneath it, which could conceivably serve as an abode for extraterrestrial life.[11] This hypothesis proposes that heat from tidal flexing causes the ocean to remain liquid and drives geological activity similar to plate tectonics.[12] "In December 2013, NASA reported the detection of "clay-like minerals" (specifically, phyllosilicates), often associated with "organic material" on the icy crust of Europa.[13] In addition, NASA announced, based on studies with the Hubble Space Telescope, that water vapor plumes were detected on Europa and were similar to water vapor plumes detected on Enceladus, moon of Saturn.[14]" So we have Oxygen + water + organic material.... I don't get it, why exploring a dead planet Mars instead... Why so much interest for Mars, instead aliens can wave hands to us from Europa Edited August 22, 2014 by qxcontinuum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted August 22, 2014 #2 Share Posted August 22, 2014 A Rover on Europa?? I imagine the surface of Europa would be a great deal harder to traverse than the surface of Mars. As far as theory goes, the surface shifts a great deal too to allow water to move, a stationary probe drilling into the ice and releasing an underwater probe in the suspected oceans below the surface is the best plan to date as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qxcontinuum Posted August 22, 2014 Author #3 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Actualy it seems Nasa is planning a robotic mission to europa in 2020 according to wiki. Europeans in 2020. cool, can't wait to see the results! Edited August 22, 2014 by qxcontinuum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted August 22, 2014 #4 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Actualy it seems Nasa is planning a robotic mission to europa in 2020 according to wiki. Europeans in 2020. cool, can't wait to see the results! Laplace? That was cancelled wasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qxcontinuum Posted August 22, 2014 Author #5 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) It is recent On 13 January 2014, the House Appropriations Committee announced a new bipartisan bill that includes $80 million funding to continue the Europa mission concept studies.[84][85] More In 2011, a Europa mission was recommended by the U.S. Planetary Science Decadal Survey.[81] In response, NASA commissioned Europa lander concept studies in 2011, along with concepts for a Europa flyby (Europa Clipper), and a Europa orbiter.[82][83] The orbiter element option concentrates on the "ocean" science, while the multiple-flyby element (Clipper) concentrates on the chemistry and energy science. On 13 January 2014, the House Appropriations Committee announced a new bipartisan bill that includes $80 million funding to continue the Europa mission concept studies.[84][85] Europa Clipper — In July 2013 an updated concept for a flyby Europa mission called Europa Clipper was presented by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) and the Applied Physics Laboratory (APL).[86] The aim of Europa Clipper is to explore Europa in order to investigate its habitability, and to aid selecting sites for a future lander. The Europa Clipper would not orbit Europa, but instead orbit Jupiter and conduct 45 low-altitude flybys of Europa during its envisioned mission. The probe would carry an ice penetrating radar, short wave infra red spectrometer, topographical imager, and an ion and neutral mass spectrometer. Europa Orbiter — Its objective would be to characterize the extent of the ocean and its relation to the deeper interior. Instrument payload could include a radio subsystem, laser altimeter, magnetometer, Langmuir probe, and a mapping camera.[87][88] Europa Lander — It would investigate the moon's habitability and assess its astrobiological potential by confirming the existence and determining the characteristics of water within and below Europa's icy shell.[89] In 2012, Jupiter Icy Moon Explorer was selected by the European Space Agency (ESA) as a planned mission.[15][90] That mission includes some flybys of Europa, but is more focused on Ganymede. Edited August 22, 2014 by qxcontinuum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted August 22, 2014 #6 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I heard it was cancelled - that does sound like the one I refer to. I sure hope you are right. It would be awesome to see a Europa landing. I want to know if there really is water under the ice, or if it's just slush down to the rocky core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted August 22, 2014 #7 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) I am failing to understand why Nasa is sending another rover on Mars after like 5 of them instead sending one to Europa. There are millions reasons to do so. Money and logistics for one. But also Mars is full of surprise and we are learning a lot more about it with every mission. We still don't know for sure if the planet harbored primitive lifeforms in the past some 3.6 billion years ago or if it still does in some places today. Scientists are now convinced there were feshwater lakes on Mars, thanks to the strong evidence reported by Curiosity robot's tools, which is promising. ''Because water is key to life as we know it, earlier Mars missions (2001 Mars Odyssey, Mars Exploration Rovers, Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, Mars Phoenix Lander) were designed to make discoveries under the previous Mars Exploration Program science theme of "Follow the Water." Progressive discoveries related to evidence of past and present water in the geologic record make it possible to take the next steps toward finding evidence of life itself.'' You can learn a lot more about Mars program and missions here: http://mars.nasa.gov...sions/overview/ I heard it was cancelled - that does sound like the one I refer to. I sure hope you are right. It would be awesome to see a Europa landing. I want to know if there really is water under the ice, or if it's just slush down to the rocky core. NASA is working on a limited budget mission expected around the 2020s which will focus on obiting or multiple flybys. It seems that a landing on Europa just won't happen in the near futur. Still, this kind of mission can provide us a lot more data. According to a communiqué dated July 15, 2014: ''The NRC recommended NASA try to reduce the cost and scope of a mission to Europa, and the agency still is working out its plans for such an undertaking. In April, NASA released a request for information for concepts for a mission to Europa that would cost less than $1 billion, excluding the launch vehicle, which could still meet as many of the science priorities as possible. Recent NASA studies have focused on an orbiter mission concept and a multiple flyby mission concept as the most compelling and feasible.'' Source: http://www.nasa.gov/...s/#.U_dgINRBN5Q Edited August 22, 2014 by sam_comm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qxcontinuum Posted August 22, 2014 Author #8 Share Posted August 22, 2014 will be extremely useful is NASA can be outsourced to an International consortium benefiting from funds from around the world (not just US). This way the budgetary concerns will vanish and all the achievements will be much faster , they are for everyone anyway ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted August 22, 2014 #9 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I thought we were to stay away from "Europa " ? Didnt that documentry when we went to Jupiter tell us or was that the Big-Black Slab talking ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qxcontinuum Posted August 22, 2014 Author #10 Share Posted August 22, 2014 huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted August 22, 2014 #11 Share Posted August 22, 2014 http://en.m.wikipedi...ki/Europa_(moon) I am failing to understand why Nasa is sending another rover on Mars after like 5 of them instead sending one to Europa. There are millions reasons to do so. "Slightly smaller than the Moon, Europa is primarily made of silicate rock and probably has an iron core. It has a tenuous atmosphere composed primarily of oxygen. Its surface is composed of water ice and is one of the smoothest in the Solar System.[10] This surface is striated by cracks and streaks, whereas craters are relatively rare. The apparent youth and smoothness of the surface have led to the hypothesis that a water ocean exists beneath it, which could conceivably serve as an abode for extraterrestrial life.[11] This hypothesis proposes that heat from tidal flexing causes the ocean to remain liquid and drives geological activity similar to plate tectonics.[12] "In December 2013, NASA reported the detection of "clay-like minerals" (specifically, phyllosilicates), often associated with "organic material" on the icy crust of Europa.[13] In addition, NASA announced, based on studies with the Hubble Space Telescope, that water vapor plumes were detected on Europa and were similar to water vapor plumes detected on Enceladus, moon of Saturn.[14]" So we have Oxygen + water + organic material.... I don't get it, why exploring a dead planet Mars instead... Why so much interest for Mars, instead aliens can wave hands to us from Europa They are planning manned flights to Mars and need to know much more about the planet than they do now before setting up shop there. A mission to Europa is under evaluation now but it will not be landing a rover as it will be an orbiter or flyby type of craft. Possibly a Huygens like probe but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markprice Posted August 22, 2014 #12 Share Posted August 22, 2014 huh? ...those black slabs are trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseCuster Posted August 22, 2014 #13 Share Posted August 22, 2014 huh? ALL THESE WORLDSARE YOURS EXCEPT EUROPA ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted August 22, 2014 #14 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Roy Scheider gets to see all kinds of weird things like giant great white sharks, text messages from aliens, Harry's hat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma_Acid Posted August 23, 2014 #15 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Anyone see Europe Report - found footage movie about landing on Europe? One of the most realistic sci fi films I've ever seen. Really creepy too. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PersonFromPorlock Posted August 23, 2014 #16 Share Posted August 23, 2014 huh? Now, THAT makes me feel old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimOberg Posted August 23, 2014 #17 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Problem on Europa is the ice if THICK, like a hundred miles or so -- so you need to find cracks or eruptions after ancient impacts. But it's worth the search since that's the whole new thrust of space 2,0, as I wrote here: http://www.jamesoberg.com/Space_Probes-FOREWORD.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted August 23, 2014 #18 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Problem on Europa is the ice if THICK, like a hundred miles or so -- so you need to find cracks or eruptions after ancient impacts. But it's worth the search since that's the whole new thrust of space 2,0, as I wrote here: http://www.jamesober...es-FOREWORD.pdf Well written Jim, I need to get that book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qxcontinuum Posted August 23, 2014 Author #19 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) True, but in the same time, it seems they discover the existence of Vapors thrown in the sky by volcanic activity similar to geisers on Earth, where some are millennia old. Close to North Pole they even discovered an entire ecosystem living under the thick ice. i have a feeling that things are very similar on Europa So far on Europa what's know is; Oxygen + Water + Volcanic Activity + Magnetic Field (from Jupiter) + Metallic active Core + presence of organic material ... boy I can bet this planet is alive! Edited August 23, 2014 by qxcontinuum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimOberg Posted August 24, 2014 #20 Share Posted August 24, 2014 True, but in the same time, it seems they discover the existence of Vapors thrown in the sky by volcanic activity similar to geisers on Earth, where some are millennia old. Close to North Pole they even discovered an entire ecosystem living under the thick ice. i have a feeling that things are very similar on Europa So far on Europa what's know is; Oxygen + Water + Volcanic Activity + Magnetic Field (from Jupiter) + Metallic active Core + presence of organic material ... boy I can bet this planet is alive! EXACTLY. We've only recently learned that 'life as we KNOW it' is a minority even here on Earth, and the biospheres on our home planet for MOST 'earthlings' [by mass] exist on more than a dozen other worlds in our own solar system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted August 24, 2014 #21 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Anyone see Europe Report - found footage movie about landing on Europe? One of the most realistic sci fi films I've ever seen. Really creepy too. Yes I saw that, I thought more science than the average sci fi flick, it was good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted August 24, 2014 #22 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Man did I miss that one ? Better Look it up on the listings ! I do remember seeing a trailer ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted August 24, 2014 #23 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Man did I miss that one ? Better Look it up on the listings ! I do remember seeing a trailer ! LINK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted August 24, 2014 #24 Share Posted August 24, 2014 True, but in the same time, it seems they discover the existence of Vapors thrown in the sky by volcanic activity similar to geisers on Earth, where some are millennia old. Close to North Pole they even discovered an entire ecosystem living under the thick ice. i have a feeling that things are very similar on Europa So far on Europa what's know is; Oxygen + Water + Volcanic Activity + Magnetic Field (from Jupiter) + Metallic active Core + presence of organic material ... boy I can bet this planet is alive! You forgot killer radiation that destroys living cells from Jupiter. It has been proposed that the ice is thick enough to shelter life under it, which leaves us with a dark closed environment believed to contain little to no dissolved oxygen, probably more akin to the Arctic lakes, which have only managed to support microbes that began life here and adapted to those conditions. Before getting over excited, I'd like to see if there really is liquid water there. Not sure of you are aware of it, but the same is suspected of Ganymede. That is a liquid ocean under an ice sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted August 24, 2014 #25 Share Posted August 24, 2014 LINK Did you see this ? Dang ! I gotz to find it now on my ATT u-vers ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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