Humans are getting less intelligent

[GrimmOne]

Has it occured to anybody that the government may want people dumbed down, I mean its a lot easier to control people when there not aware that there being controlled

[Rlyeh]

Has it occured to anybody that the government may want people dumbed down, I mean its a lot easier to control people when there not aware that there being controlled

So it's the government's fault for dumb people?

Has it occurred to you that your statement is contradiction? The government wants dumb people to control them, because if they discriminated against them that would be totally not controlling.

[back to earth]

Has it occured to anybody that the government may want people dumbed down, I mean its a lot easier to control people when there not aware that there being controlled

Oh sure .... that also applies to religion for the masses ... anything for the masses actually ; even said so in the Tao Te Ching - straw dogs we are .

[back to earth]

So it's the government's fault for dumb people?

Has it occurred to you that your statement is contradiction? The government wants dumb people to control them, because if they discriminated against them that would be totally not controlling.

Wow! How did you extract that from what was said ???

Do you work for the government.?

[Rlyeh]

Wow! How did you extract that from what was said ???

Well it involves more than just looking at the pretty words.

[Space Commander Travis]

So it's the government's fault for dumb people?

Has it occurred to you that your statement is contradiction? The government wants dumb people to control them, because if they discriminated against them that would be totally not controlling.

sorry? I'm not sure if that makes sense. It surely is undoubtedly true, without needing to be a conspiracy woo woo, that the less people are encouraged or taught to think sceptically about what they hear their governments telling them, the much easier it would be for the government?

[Rlyeh]

sorry? I'm not sure if that makes sense. It surely is undoubtedly true, without needing to be a conspiracy woo woo, that the less people are encouraged or taught to think sceptically about what they hear their governments telling them, the much easier it would be for the government?

Dumb people exist, therefore the government wants to control us?

So logically if the government didn't want to control us, they would eliminate the dumb people, thereby controlling us.

[Space Commander Travis]

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here.

[Rlyeh]

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here.

I'm saying the premise, not only unsupported, when reversed it leads to the same conclusion.

I'm not aware of any evidence where is government is causing people to become dumb. Is allowing them to breed, controlling people? Well guess what, stopping them is controlling people.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Rlyeh

[Space Commander Travis]

No, sorry, still no idea. I don't see how you can dispute that a populace that's less ready to question what it's told is much easier for any government to handle, and i'm really not sure what your counter-argument is trying to say. Sorry.

[Rlyeh]

No, sorry, still no idea. I don't see how you can dispute that a populace that's less ready to question what it's told is much easier for any government to handle, and i'm really not sure what your counter-argument is trying to say. Sorry.

Look at the topic, is there any evidence the government is doing it?

[Space Commander Travis]

Doing what? making people less intelligent? You might well be able to draw a conclusion that educational policies have been designed to do just that, perhaps, or at any rate that education policies have been designed to make people have narrow specialized areas of knowledge, which are of use to the economy, but they don't have the wider range of experience and knowledge that people used to. But I'm not trying to argue that it's necessarily a deliberate policy or conspiracy, just that maybe it's a convenient by-product.

[Rlyeh]

Doing what? making people less intelligent? You might well be able to draw a conclusion that educational policies have been designed to do just that, perhaps, or at any rate that education policies have been designed to make people have narrow specialized areas of knowledge, which are of use to the economy, but they don't have the wider range of experience and knowledge that people used to. But I'm not trying to argue that it's necessarily a deliberate policy or conspiracy, just that maybe it's a convenient by-product.

I might, but then I'm not the one defending that position.

[back to earth]

I might, but then I'm not the one defending that position.

Aren't you ?

But you were the one that read ( that the government was doing it deliberately to that end ) that into the post (beyond the pretty words) in the first place ... you created the position and then attacked it :

So it's the government's fault for dumb people?

Has it occurred to you that your statement is contradiction? The government wants dumb people to control them, because if they discriminated against them that would be totally not controlling.

while all GrimmOne said was

Has it occured to anybody that the government may want people dumbed down, I mean its a lot easier to control people when there not aware that there being controlled

You changed 'may want' to "fault' yourself ..... then went on about that ... like it was someone else's postulation ...

[back to earth]

And heaven forbid any NUT CASE that might come up with the idea that the government tells lies to us (or untruths or with holds the information) to keep us dumber about what they are up to .... my state is full of Royal Commissions at the moment ... some of the examined politicians got busted for lying to the enquiry ... they wanted to keep them dumber too.

Oh yeah ... we having big protests about the funding cuts to education - the government wants to not educate us as efficiently because they will save money - is that them keeping us dumber ?

Its not all governments. When I was young I got free University Education from the government in the same country ... they did it because their philosophy was related to a belief in educating the people more, as they perceived good would come from it ... but it was a socialist style idea .... so that had to end !

[darkmoonlady]

There is quite a bit wrong in comparing "Victorians" to modern society and then attempt to correlate intelligence. What facet of Victorians were studied? The elite I would imagine who were usually the product of expensive private education. Your average Victorian era worker for example would fall a lot further down the chart. Given that there billions more people and of those billions so many more have access to education and technology, with more gaining access at an exponential rate this whole study seems biased and flawed. It is very easy look around and say we are getting dumber but a lot harder to actually do a viable and well executed study to determine that hypothesis.

Edited September 2, 2014 by darkmoonlady

[back to earth]

Good point ... I think Steiner's claim was that we were loosing our 'natural intelligence' ... but we run into the same issue, yeah ?

Still, I have to concede that the most uncommon human trait seems to be 'common sense' at times .

[Rlyeh]

Aren't you ?

But you were the one that read ( that the government was doing it deliberately to that end ) that into the post (beyond the pretty words) in the first place ... you created the position and then attacked it :

while all GrimmOne said was

You changed 'may want' to "fault' yourself ..... then went on about that ... like it was someone else's postulation ...

You're clearly not one of those people who think out the implications of an argument are you? What GrimmOne said implies it is some how the governments doing.

And heaven forbid any NUT CASE that might come up with the idea that the government tells lies to us (or untruths or with holds the information) to keep us dumber about what they are up to .... my state is full of Royal Commissions at the moment ... some of the examined politicians got busted for lying to the enquiry ... they wanted to keep them dumber too.

I doubt they'd have to lie you. Edited September 2, 2014 by Rlyeh

[Space Commander Travis]

You're clearly not one of those people who think out the implications of an argument are you? What GrimmOne said implies it is some how the governments doing.

Ah, is that why you were arguing with me? I wasn't saying that it was what governments were doing deliberately, and that it was all a conspiracy, but it undoubtedly works to their advantage, surely.

[Rlyeh]

Ah, is that why you were arguing with me? I wasn't saying that it was what governments were doing deliberately, and that it was all a conspiracy, but it undoubtedly works to their advantage, surely.

To an extent, however some of the more ridiculous conspiracies can be blamed on ignorance. A less intelligent population may be a double-edged sword.

My argument was, if the government is somehow responsible for people becoming less intelligent for the purpose of control (as implied by GrimmOne), then is the not opposite also true? If the government sought the make people more intelligent, people would cry control.

[darkmoonlady]

As for the the educational system here in regard to "dumbing down", take a look at education and what percentage of kids got an education past 4th grade in the the 20's or the 50's. Some people seem to suffer from short term historical memory loss as if now is all that ever existed. Every decade has seen more kids having more learning opportunities. In the past schools booted out kids with developmental disabilities and just didn't bother educating them.

I understand that there are and probably always will be those who want to see some kind of conspiracy everywhere but our educational system does try with the funding it has to do right by the majority of kids.

Beyond that as adults, access to the sum of human knowledge is now easier than it ever has been. The second you graduate high school learning does not and should not end. People can learn if they want to but if they choose not to, it isn't the governments fault.

Edited September 2, 2014 by darkmoonlady

[Hawken]

Human intelligence declining? Surely not.

[back to earth]

Human intelligence declining? Surely not.

[Likely Guy]

Case in point, the famous Lincoln-Douglas debates. The seven joint debates lasted a total of 21 hours and were widely attended and recorded over a seven week period, all for an Illinois senate seat.

Now, all I could imagine is a seven second clip of it on the evening news.

[bubblykiss]

Case in point, the famous Lincoln-Douglas debates. The seven joint debates lasted a total of 21 hours and were widely attended and recorded over a seven week period, all for an Illinois senate seat.

Now, all I could imagine is a seven second clip of it on the evening news.

I'm sorry that was a lot of words, could you summarize that post in 3 words?