Why do people insist everything is faked?

[shrooma]

Why is it that some people automatically switches into conspiracy mode ?

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Deja Vu Touche'!

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(sorry- got your & Stellar's post mixed up!)

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[flyingswan]

Swanny

ATC data is one thing--altitude and routing data. The tapes of the conversations between controllers and pilots are quite another.

So is there evidence that these are missing or not? I'm still waiting for anything more from you than opinions. Why do you have these opinions when you can't back them up?

[DONTEATUS]

Flyingswan ,Thats a question that will indeed never be answered ! Its like the Wall is talking but We All hung a Painting over the nail.

Babr R. is quite a object of currosity ! Lets not p*** him off He might get like Puttin and threaten us with one of His nUKES ! lOl

[mrbusdriver]

I think that Sir Smoke aLot brings up a valid point.

Everytime something major happens in the World, people are quick to find a way to spin it as a staged event, even before any real information is available.

Why is it that some people automatically switches into conspiracy mode ?

It's not a "switch" for them, it's their normal way of thinking...maybe takes some of the sting of out of (in their self view) having pretty meaningless lives. They know a special secret...

[regeneratia]

People insist that there is more to the story than we are are told is because we are all starting to believe that our government CONSTANTLY lies to us, that mainstream media constantly lies to us. It is not because we want to always go against the mainstream. It is more that there is no longer any reason whatsoever, we believe, to trust our governments and mainstream media.

Conspiracy theories are continuously blamed on the people as having something wrong with them.

But the reality is, it is the government and the mainstream media that have dubiously meme-cancerish actions and dishonorable habits of lying, that has gone terminally ill with dispensing deception and perception control.

We no longer want our sentiments guided by governments filled with people with far less morals than we have, and media who lies far more than we do.

This isn't our problem. The REAL problem lies in the unbelievablity of the conceptual issuances of governments and media.

That is IT, in a nutshell. People over-whelmingly distrust their own governments and mainstream media, and rightfully so.

And let me tell you, I have yet to read a counter to this point. Regardless of what is written here on this topic, we are all in agreement that governments and media lie.

caps for emphasis only

Edited August 29, 2014 by regeneratia

[regeneratia]

how come a lot of people think that every time a national or international disaster happens, that it's faked.

I think it's a bit silly myself.

I replied to you above. I ask that you think about it.

[Abaddonire]

how come a lot of people think that every time a national or international disaster happens, that it's faked.

I think it's a bit silly myself.

Because there is a great honking hole in their lives which they cannot find within themselves any means to fill but baloney invented out of whole cloth just to make themselves feel good about themselves. It's rhetorical m********ion.

Yes. I am that cynical.

[regeneratia]

Because there is a great honking hole in their lives which they cannot find within themselves any means to fill but baloney invented out of whole cloth just to make themselves feel good about themselves. It's rhetorical m********ion.

Yes. I am that cynical.

caps for emphasis only

I believe my thinking is a little closer to reality than yours, that people no longer trust the government to tell us the truth due to all the lies governments and media have told us before that have been proved to be lies. The pretense to have faith in the integrity of governments on the part of the citizen falls away. The only pretense continuing to be maintained is a government that thinks it's citizens believe all that is told to them by the government and media.

Again, when we get a story from governments and/or media, THE ONLY THING that we can know for sure is what governments and media tells is what we are SUPPOSED to think, what they want us to think. That is the only thing known that is certain.

Edited August 29, 2014 by regeneratia

[Babe Ruth]

Swanny

Try a site called Global Research. Michael Chossudovsky is the main guy there, and I probably have his last name spelled wrong. There are other sites covering it as well, but I'm away from my home computer and don't have them close at hand. I think Veterans Today has also covered it.

[skyeagle409]

Swanny

Try a site called Global Research. Michael Chossudovsky is the main guy there, and I probably have his last name spelled wrong. There are other sites covering it as well, but I'm away from my home computer and don't have them close at hand. I think Veterans Today has also covered it.

You should have known that Global Research and Veterans Today, were both found to have lied in regards to the MH-17 tragedy. Case is point:

From: Global Research

Ukrainian Su-25 Fighter detected in Close Approach to MH17 before Crash: Photographic Evidence

The Russian military detected a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jet gaining height towards the MH17 Boeing on the day of the catastrophe.

“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukrainian-su-25-fighter-detected-in-close-approach-to-mh17-before-crash-photographic-evidence/5392501

From: Veterans Today

Ukrainian Su-25 fighter approached MH17

“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.

“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated. “The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/21/ukrainian-su-25-fighter-approached-mh17/

The cruise speed of MH-17 at 33,000 feet was much faster than the airspeed of a Su-25 with a weapons load. In fact, the Su-25 was limited to an altitude of only 16,000 feet with weapons, which is 3 miles lower than the cruise alitude of MH-17, Even without weapons, the Su-25 was limited to only 23,000 feet, which is still 2 miles lower than the cruise alitude of MH-17.

In other words, the websites you've used as a reference have been caught pushing a known lie.

[flyingswan]

Swanny

Try a site called Global Research. Michael Chossudovsky is the main guy there, and I probably have his last name spelled wrong. There are other sites covering it as well, but I'm away from my home computer and don't have them close at hand. I think Veterans Today has also covered it.

..and I should believe these sites rather than the Dutch Safety Board because...?

You accuse me of putting blind trust in the mainstream media, but in fact you are the one putting blind trust in dubious websites while I have quoted primary sources, such as manufacturer's data for Su-25 performance.

I ask again, why do you believe this?

[Border Collie]

..and I should believe these sites rather than the Dutch Safety Board because...?

You accuse me of putting blind trust in the mainstream media, but in fact you are the one putting blind trust in dubious websites while I have quoted primary sources, such as manufacturer's data for Su-25 performance.

I ask again, why do you believe this?

If some dude on the interwebs is caught lying, pretty much nothing happens.

If the Dutch Safety Board are caught lying, it's a huge issue, nationally and internationally. Senior people are going to lose their jobs with the sort of black mark against their name which will make them virtually unemployable.

So let me see. Which is more likely?

[Babe Ruth]

Swanny

I have stated several times here that regarding MH17, my mind is still open. Unlike the MSM, I did NOT have it all figured out before the bodies were removed from the scene. Aviation accidents are seldom "all figured out" within 24 hours. That is the purpose of the NTSB process, after all.

So I'm still reading all I can, examining all the evidence that is not being withheld by certain parties, and so forth. It's only about 6 weeks since the accident fer cryin' out loud. The Dutch have not even released their findings yet dude.

But given the sudden silence by the western media, and the admission by the US government that it cannot prove its initial story, it is not likely that the initial claims, WHICH YOU SEEM TO EMBRACE WITHOUT QUESTION, are true and valid.

Believe what you want Swanny, but what we know so far is that the BUK theory is not strongly supported by the evidence observed, ESPECIALLY the behavior of the Kiev government.

[flyingswan]

Swanny

I have stated several times here that regarding MH17, my mind is still open. Unlike the MSM, I did NOT have it all figured out before the bodies were removed from the scene. Aviation accidents are seldom "all figured out" within 24 hours. That is the purpose of the NTSB process, after all.

You have numerous posts putting forward the claim that the aircraft was downed by gunfire. Your mind does not seem to be open to any other scenario.

But given the sudden silence by the western media, and the admission by the US government that it cannot prove its initial story, it is not likely that the initial claims, WHICH YOU SEEM TO EMBRACE WITHOUT QUESTION, are true and valid.

Where do I say what I believe? All I've done is post evidence which rules out the Su-25 claim and questions your gunfire theories.

Edited August 30, 2014 by flyingswan

[MordorOrc]

Global Research is nothing more than a site for idiotic conspiracy theories. None of what is published on the site makes any sense whatsoever. And besides, it's linked to Alex Jones and the sirens usually start screaming for "tinfoil hat alert" whenever he is mentioned.

[preacherman76]

Because there is a great honking hole in their lives which they cannot find within themselves any means to fill but baloney invented out of whole cloth just to make themselves feel good about themselves. It's rhetorical m********ion.

Yes. I am that cynical.

I cant speak for others, put this couldnt be further from the truth when it comes to myself. I was alot happier back when I believed America was nearly always on the side of right. When I believed wars we waged were just. When I believed there was a actual difference between republicans and democrats. Makes me sick when I think back about how I cheered when we bombed Iraq cites night and day, killing hundreds of thousands of innocents. Things were alot more simple back when I trusted our government.

[skyeagle409]

Makes me sick when I think back about how I cheered when we bombed Iraq cites night and day, killing hundreds of thousands of innocents. Things were alot more simple back when I trusted our government.

Where did you come up with that 'hundreds of thousands' figure?

[Babe Ruth]

You have numerous posts putting forward the claim that the aircraft was downed by gunfire. Your mind does not seem to be open to any other scenario.

Where do I say what I believe? All I've done is post evidence which rules out the Su-25 claim and questions your gunfire theories.

Do you understand the difference between entertaining a thought, contemplating facts and evidence, and reaching a conclusion?

Is that simple process really beyond your understanding? Egads man, you're in trouble if that's the case.

My position is that AT THIS POINT IN TIME, it appears that the airplane was struck by cannon fire.

Or maybe you think that left wing upper surface just has a tattoo it received in Amsterdam?

[Jeremiah65]

Where did you come up with that 'hundreds of thousands' figure?

And if we killed one person under false pretenses...that is acceptable?

Maybe preacherman exaggerated a bit on the number of innocent civilians killed...but the point still stands. We killed people and De-stabilized their society over a lie...there was no WMD's.

[skyeagle409]

And if we killed one person under false pretenses...that is acceptable?

Under false pretense, yes, however, there are times when certain actions are justified. An example was Europe's lack of desire to take action against Hitler, which only embolden him even further and the end result was the loss of millions of lives.

As the world sat back,and did nothing, thousands of innocent civilians were being slaughtered by the Serbs in the Balkans. As the world sat back and did nothing, hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians were being slaughtered in Cambodia. As the world sat back and did nothing, Saddam was slaughtering hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq and in Kuwait.

At some point in time, action must be taken when hundreds of thousands of innocent lives are at stake.

[skyeagle409]

My position is that AT THIS POINT IN TIME, it appears that the airplane was struck by cannon fire.

Please show us how a 30mm round could have fit though the small punctures you see in the photo..

Looking at the next photo, it is very clear that the puncture pattern is consistent with shrapnel damage and nothing to do with cannon fire.

[skyeagle409]

Or maybe you think that left wing upper surface just has a tattoo it received in Amsterdam?

Let's take a closer look at this photo and explain to us how a section of the upper wing skin (bulge) was pushed up from beneath. Then, explain to us why the damage depicted in the photo is consistent with shrapnel damage.

Edited August 31, 2014 by skyeagle409

[Rlyeh]

Because Alex Jones said so.

[DONTEATUS]

How about just the truth? Or is it We cant Handle the Truth?

NOT ! It was what it was ! brought down by a BUK Rocket !

[flyingswan]

Do you understand the difference between entertaining a thought, contemplating facts and evidence, and reaching a conclusion?

Do you? You seem to reach conclusions based on a pre-held world-view rather than evidence.

My position is that AT THIS POINT IN TIME, it appears that the airplane was struck by cannon fire.

Or maybe you think that left wing upper surface just has a tattoo it received in Amsterdam?

Looking at that picture, whatever caused the damage appears to have been travelling rearwards relative to the aircraft. How is that consistent with a cannon attack? Much more likely something exploding in the vicinity of the nose of the aircraft.

Edited September 1, 2014 by flyingswan