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What IF?


and-then

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The problem with that is the fact that the US doesn't know how to destroy terrorist groups. The best we can do is send in our troops to shoot up the countryside some and maybe drone strike a few leaders. I can't even think of one terrorist group that we were ever successful in destroying. Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaida, Boko Haram, Al Shabaab?

Yes, Gromdor, you have a point. But I was addressing what should be done, not imagining what I would do as a eunuch. We've never had a better opportunity to give a terrorist group its due than we have right now with ISIS. They have come out of the shadows and are operating boldly in an area with little chance for collateral damage. Some old-fashioned alchemy of turning sand into glass ought to get the job done without a shot being fired.

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I agree about the "mysteries" UNLESS it is something so obvious no one can hide it. I don't allow myself the luxury (no offense intended) of assuming some dark nefarious cabal is responsible for tearing us down from within. I think we ARE doing ourselves in, but not in some planned way. I think it's the disunity that seems to pervade everything now. The point of my question is more about what it would take, if anything, to bring the US back together like after 9-11. I'm not sure anything can any longer. And if the next big attack is a truly catastrophic mass casualty - nuke or bio - would America respond in kind? If the United States unleashed a proportional response on a target like Pakistan or Iran (just examples) then the world might quickly join ranks against us in more overt ways. It is a serious issue to ponder. OTOH if the US failed to respond in a proportional way then China, Russia or others might well use that as a signal they can move in their own self interest against targets globally.

When one village is attacked by another, members of that village band together for revenge. That is human behavior 101.

My guess is that sooner or later "ISIS" will stage some attack on the US, and the result will be the same. This same sort of reaction is being evoked by way of the several beheading videos as we speak, and the passions ARE being inflamed to achieve consensus for war in Syria.

Who benefits? Ah, that is the interesting part....

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I've heard it said that the best defense is a good offense. Knowing that we are dealing with a terrorist group and knowing what terrorist groups are like, I think it is highly irresponsible to ponder what we will do if we are attacked. It's similar in my mind to a group sitting on their front porch watching a mad dog roam the street and discussing what they will do when someone gets bitten. In either case the more prudent path is to strike first before the damage can be done. We know ISIS hates us, we know what atrocities they are capable of, and we have been directly threatened. What more do we need? The time to strike is now. We can turn our discussion from "what do we do if attacked?" to "what will the neighbors think?" but I'd rather deal with the aftermath of action that the consequences of inaction. There can be no punishment after the fact for people who will gladly die inflicting harm on their enemies, there can only be prevention.

I tend toward pondering the reality of the situation, however , I understand what you are saying and agree wholeheartedly. The problem is that the current "leadership" of this nation has made such action impossible unless we have been attacked catastrophically - and even THEN, I'm not sure the gutless wonder would strike back.
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When one village is attacked by another, members of that village band together for revenge. That is human behavior 101.

My guess is that sooner or later "ISIS" will stage some attack on the US, and the result will be the same. This same sort of reaction is being evoked by way of the several beheading videos as we speak, and the passions ARE being inflamed to achieve consensus for war in Syria.

Who benefits? Ah, that is the interesting part....

BR can you even conceive of a true enemy other than our own government?
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BR can you even conceive of a true enemy other than our own government?

Of course I can.

The trouble is that in my adult life time (born in '47) there has not been one demonstrated. All the "true enemies" so far have been very much as Mencken described them, imaginary hobgoblins.

Did my year in RVN, it turned out they were not our enemies, they only wanted us to leave them alone.

Korea wasn't really our enemy. Ike managed to get a truce, exercising wisdom and leadership in the process, and cautioning about the MIC as he left office.

GWOT turned out to be a hoax of epic proportions, even as we prepare to invade Syria.

Beating the drums of war regarding ISIS is fairly well identical to the beating of those drums over AQ and Taliban. Poor old Daniel Pearl's beheading is all but forgotten now.

Having been brainwashed by the best of them, it seems that in my old age it is much easier to perceive. :yes:

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I tend toward pondering the reality of the situation, however , I understand what you are saying and agree wholeheartedly. The problem is that the current "leadership" of this nation has made such action impossible unless we have been attacked catastrophically - and even THEN, I'm not sure the gutless wonder would strike back.

I understand, but I was giving my opinion of what should be done, not trying to second guess our emasculated, pro Muslim, government. The reality of the situation is dreadful to ponder, especially when you consider what ulterior motives may be producing the current situation.

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Babe I never figured you to be any older than your 30's! No reason and I don't know why. Geez was I off.

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I agree about the "mysteries" UNLESS it is something so obvious no one can hide it. I don't allow myself the luxury (no offense intended) of assuming some dark nefarious cabal is responsible for tearing us down from within. I think we ARE doing ourselves in, but not in some planned way. I think it's the disunity that seems to pervade everything now. The point of my question is more about what it would take, if anything, to bring the US back together like after 9-11. I'm not sure anything can any longer. And if the next big attack is a truly catastrophic mass casualty - nuke or bio - would America respond in kind? If the United States unleashed a proportional response on a target like Pakistan or Iran (just examples) then the world might quickly join ranks against us in more overt ways. It is a serious issue to ponder. OTOH if the US failed to respond in a proportional way then China, Russia or others might well use that as a signal they can move in their own self interest against targets globally.

i agree with the bolded part^ ... we are sort of "doing ourselves in" as a country... and , as you say, Not by plan. It's just happening because certain economic forces have more Control over our country's policies than the men and women we elected to do what is in OUR best interests as a people/nation.

Not, an "evil cabal" in any organized sense, it's just BUSINE$$ . ..and Chaos.

Edited by lightly
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This is how I see it. The Boston bombing was not staged, but it gave Obuma, et. al., the opportunity to experiment with the American people. Obuma wanted to see if Americans would give up their rights, voluntarily, for the sake of “public” security. The people of Boston did that very thing and Obuma saw that his plan to become a dictator was feasible. Now, with military leaders on his side, willing to fire on and kill Americans, all he needs is another event to pull-off his master plan, i.e., Caliphate in America. If what this video is telling us is real, then beginning next week we should see:

1. Mass bombings, terrorists attacks in America

2. Obuma declares martial law, U.S. military patrolling our streets

3. Americans will voluntarily give up their rights

4. Obuma will begin to roll out Islamic fundamental ideology

5. Islamic radicals will take a strong-hold in the U.S., paving the way for more terrorist attacks

6. Obuma will put on a performance like none-other, pretending to fight the terror, all the while supporting the activity

7. With martial law, no rights, terror in every city, Obuma will be in a prime position to continue his “presidency” well beyond his term limit (if you know what I mean)

8. This era will usher in a New World Order, but not the Bush NWW; the Caliphate

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I mentioned this in my blog but decided I'd make a thread as well. The details aren't so important but the question is, I believe. IF the US is attacked again on our soil in a significant way, with mass casualties again, how would, COULD, we respond? Do you think Obama would strike back? If he failed to what does that signal our enemies?

If its another attack on the scale of 9/11 or worse then Obama needs to get the a-bomb out.

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Here is a snippet of the linked article:

In a new book about the 2012 attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, a group of American commandos who were tasked with guarding the compound claim they were ordered to stand down during the attack, preventing them from rescuing Ambassador Christopher Stevens and others who were trapped inside. The book, titled 13 Hours, is scheduled to be released next week, but a copy was obtained by David Kirkpatrick of The New York Times.

According to the book, five members of a private security team say an unidentified CIA station chief ordered them not to intervene (against their protests) as the consulate was under attack by militants. The commandos say they eventually disobeyed the order, but not soon enough to save Stephens and another American who were both killed.

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I've been voting for Ron Paul for decades, with good reason. :tu:

What if provoking the Russian Bear by lies and deception causes WWIII?

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I've been voting for Ron Paul for decades, with good reason. :tu:

What if provoking the Russian Bear by lies and deception causes WWIII?

...IF?I'm pretty sure you mean "when"...Seriously.
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Someday, probably pretty soon, a major city somewhere (not necessarily in the US since as things now are there doing it would be hard and they would go for a soft target) is going to be seriously damaged by a nuclear or chemical or biological attack (probably nuclear).

At that point our lives will change. If you think governments spy on us now, wait till that has happened. The terrorists involved will of course be destroyed (this sort of behavior is self-defeating) and anyone espousing similar ideas. I don't think Obama has the will to act strongly, but I don't know, and anyway someone with more determination and a more balanced view of things would, after such an event, succeed him.

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Frank, as usual, makes sense. We are still to see the globalization of terror and disruption, as economic and trade globalization have already affected the world over the past two decades. Will the recent talks within NATO spawn a more cohesive Western response to terrorism and its consequences? This remains to be seen. My hunch is that, for all the criticism fired at him over the past 6 years, Obama would have to react strongly to any more terror attacks on U.S. targets, domestic or foreign-located. If he were not to react with expedience and expeditiousness, his "legacy" (yet uncharted) would go down in terminal flames.

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A poem....

"First it was Jack Kennedy, resplendent in his charm

A leader with charisma, kept the Bay of Pigs all calm

Someone with a rifle, didn't like his face

So they shot him in the head you see

To eradicate post haste

Along comes brother Robert, to settle out the score

Equality and justice for all, he did implore

Again they saw a threat, to their disposed beliefs

And sent out Ruby Red Lips

Just to keep the peace

Now Martin Luther had a dream, all are forgiven

Black and White in harmony, his passion was so driven

Another freedom fighter raising ire in the ranks

Playing with fire is one thing

But don't underestimate their thanks

Three thousand were murdered on that fateful day

All the numbers add up, someone had to pay

Bombings are so yesteryear, who could see it coming

Why not use paper planes

They cut steel like its nothing

Look at them dirty Arabs, laughing in our face

Going to get Bin Laden, he's dead meat on a plate

Grabbed his ass in Abbottabad, slimy little freak

He jumped ship or something

Never did get that straight

Ambassadors in Benghazi, calling for back­up

Sorry we can't help you Steve, what a freaking crack­up

An embassy in a far off land, very hard to get through

Where is the cavalry when you need them?

We would not have a clue

Batman comes to Aurora, Robin stayed at home

It was midnight when he came in, orange hair not combed

Busts in guns a blazing, that dark knight he be

Couldn't see who he's shooting

Too drugged out you see

Some kid with a pistol, or was it an M­16

Shot all the little children for no reason, so it seems

They have our asses covered, you can be very sure of that

Thank God for the government

Or thank the other chap

A normal flight from KL, enroute to Beijing

Disappears from radar, start looking for the pings

Scour the ocean seabed, no evidence was found

It must be pesky aliens

Or was it ordered down

Where in Hell are we going, to put up with this crap

Don't just sit there moaning, there is no time for that

Best to join together and take the reins away

Liberty and freedom, that's the American way."

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