Indisputable Evidence for Mind over Matter

[stereologist]

On the issue of "I don't believe <fill in a noun> exist because I've never seen one."

Do people believe in whale sharks? I do but have never seen one.

Do people believe in circum zenith arcs? I do but I've seen dozens.

Do people believe in flying squirrels? I do, but as far as I know I am the only one of my friends that have seen one.

Do people believe in the Mars rovers? I do, but I never saw one and now all I see are photos from Mars.

How many people believe in beavers and never see one. Hint, they are nocturnal. How many people have seen a bear in the wild? My record is 9 in a weekend. How many people have seen the ISS? It is up there. How many people have seen a comet? How many people have seen the rings of Saturn? I'm not counting photos online or in a book. ow many people have seen shrews? Or what about seeing a pocket gopher?

There are many things people have not seen or experienced. We rely on others to tell us about these other things that exist.

That gets to the issue of apparitions. I've stated here or in other threads that I've never encountered an apparition. I often slept in graveyards in the past traveling from here to there. Neither myself or anyone else encountered or reported apparitions. I suggest that apparition encounters are really emotional events which are later claimed to be something other than the internalized emotions of the individual being externalized.

[SSilhouette]

There are many things people have not seen or experienced. We rely on others to tell us about these other things that exist.

That gets to the issue of apparitions. I've stated here or in other threads that I've never encountered an apparition. I often slept in graveyards in the past traveling from here to there. Neither myself or anyone else encountered or reported apparitions. I suggest that apparition encounters are really emotional events which are later claimed to be something other than the internalized emotions of the individual being externalized.

Well about a dozen people have seen and reported my apparation distant from me as confirmed by other eyewitnesses. This dozen were not aware of the other sightings of the people they didn't know. All reported/insisted on seeing me somewhere that I clearly was not.

Yes, we do rely on others to tell us about these things that exist.

[regeneratia]

What I do: I roll an organic cigarette, light it, and inhale. Then I make a wish, mentally put it in the smoke and blow it out, allowing the wish to disperse with the smoke. I only request that which is good for all.

It seems to be working. The power-mongers seems to be more reactive these days and far less proactive. I wish them all to become mediocre, cash-strapped faith healers. LOL. Really. I do really make that wish.

Edited September 28, 2014 by regeneratia

[Rlyeh]

What I do: I roll an organic cigarette, light it, and inhale. Then I make a wish, mentally put it in the smoke and blow it out, allowing the wish to disperse with the smoke. I only request that which is good for all.

It seems to be working. The power-mongers seems to be more reactive these days and far less proactive. I wish them all to become mediocre, cash-strapped faith healers. LOL. Really. I do really make that wish.

Nothing you just said is "good". About the only good thing you could do is smoke poison ivy.

[SSilhouette]

Nothing you just said is "good". About the only good thing you could do is smoke poison ivy.

On the contrary, I found great wisdom in what s/he just said. I like the part about mediocre cash-strapped faith healers. 'Tis a good wish for someone obsessed with money. Does their soul a world of good.

[SSilhouette]

Well about a dozen people have seen and reported my apparation distant from me as confirmed by other eyewitnesses. This dozen were not aware of the other sightings of the people they didn't know. All reported/insisted on seeing me somewhere that I clearly was not.

Yes, we do rely on others to tell us about these things that exist.

And now that we both agree by your yardstick sterologist, that dopplegangers exist, the next logical step is to try to figure out what they are and how space & time are overcome by them? Or whatever else mysterious physical properties are going on with them? I've thought about them quite a long while. And the one thing that keeps surfacing in my theories is that physical laws have an end point. Whereupon some other set of laws takes over. Like if you imagine the universe's physical properties is a table top and the laws that apply to dopplegangers are "the laws beyond the edge of the table top". They are "outside the box", in a manner of speaking.

That's as far as I've gotten and where nervousness starts setting in for any further exploration.

Edited September 28, 2014 by SSilhouette

[stereologist]

And now that we both agree by your yardstick sterologist, that dopplegangers exist, the next logical step is to try to figure out what they are and how space & time are overcome by them? Or whatever else mysterious physical properties are going on with them? I've thought about them quite a long while. And the one thing that keeps surfacing in my theories is that physical laws have an end point. Whereupon some other set of laws takes over. Like if you imagine the universe's physical properties is a table top and the laws that apply to dopplegangers are "the laws beyond the edge of the table top". They are "outside the box", in a manner of speaking.

That's as far as I've gotten and where nervousness starts setting in for any further exploration.

I've never agreed to anything about doppelgangers. That is a decision on your part. You may have agreed to them. I see no evidence for them. We have some sort of vague story you've told us. Hardly evidence.

Please tell me how you believing in doppelgangers has anything at all to do with the topic of the thread.

[SSilhouette]

I've never agreed to anything about doppelgangers. That is a decision on your part. You may have agreed to them. I see no evidence for them. We have some sort of vague story you've told us. Hardly evidence.

Please tell me how you believing in doppelgangers has anything at all to do with the topic of the thread.

You said that if other people tell you something is true, you believe them. I've used the best example of this to show that dopplegangers, mine at least, are true. Nearly a dozen different people all swore to the same account of seeing it at different places, but it each time as "me" unbeknownst to the others. And their accounts had nothing to do with gain at all. In fact it seemed to really rattle them to tell them.

How they have to do with this thread is this: In the one instance where I wanted to feed and shower at the same time, it appears as if at least my apparition was trying to feed while I gathered clothes for a shower. In the case of my friend's husband, his willing mind over matter [his clear inability to travel 200 feet to overtake and pass a charging pitbull to save his daughter's life, in less than an instant] actually saved a life in the real, concrete and practical world.

That's some heavy duty "mind over matter" my friend. I'd say a paranormal ability like that which saved a life is the definition of the topic of this thread. No law of physics should've allowed him to travel that far that fast and appear between the charging pit bull and his little 3 year old girl playing in the yard.. But he did. And that was his mind over matter. Mission accomplished.

Edited September 29, 2014 by SSilhouette

[stereologist]

You said that if other people tell you something is true, you believe them. I've used the best example of this to show that dopplegangers, mine at least, are true. Nearly a dozen different people all swore to the same account of seeing it at different places, but it each time as "me" unbeknownst to the others. And their accounts had nothing to do with gain at all. In fact it seemed to really rattle them to tell them.

How they have to do with this thread is this: In the one instance where I wanted to feed and shower at the same time, it appears as if at least my apparition was trying to feed while I gathered clothes for a shower. In the case of my friend's husband, his willing mind over matter [his clear inability to travel 200 feet to overtake and pass a charging pitbull to save his daughter's life, in less than an instant] actually saved a life in the real, concrete and practical world.

That's some heavy duty "mind over matter" my friend. I'd say a paranormal ability like that which saved a life is the definition of the topic of this thread. No law of physics should've allowed him to travel that far that fast and appear between the charging pit bull and his little 3 year old girl playing in the yard.. But he did. And that was his mind over matter. Mission accomplished.

Please do not misrepresent me. That is a rather poor inference you've made. People have told me that they saw a lake monster and it is true. They even had photos. I did not believe them.

There are plenty of stories such as yours and they are stories. I've witnessed people that have made claims about things they have done in an emergency situation and what they describe is not what happened. It is what they believe, but what someone believes happened is not often what actually happened. It is not unusual to have multiple witnesses to an accident report different versions of the incident. Our memories are not "videotapes". They can be altered and amended.

[ChrLzs]

You said that if other people tell you something is true, you believe them.

??????

Good flippin Grief, that's not what he said AT ALL. That is shameful misrepresentation.

[Rolci]

This topic has lead me to discover the multitude of uses of hypnosis. I am calling about a dozen today in my vicinity, to gauge their methods and knowledge in the field. I'm doing it for my colleague and friend who is addicted to smoking and gambling, and has serious issues with spiders (not exactly phobia, I'd say half-way there). His wife has OCD. I'll refer them to the best of the locally available therapists which they've agreed they'll visit. In the majority of the cases one visit is successful for full "recovery", in a minority a second session is recommended. Yes, self-hypnosis and CA are always viable alternatives, but it is my observation that some people are not cut out for doing things like this for themselves, they need an authority figure to "trust" the expertise of. (These are people who are not aware of the concept of "self-empowerment", let alone capable of acting out of such.) Still one or two sessions work out cheaper than carrying on smoking, or using different methods to give up like electronic cigarettes and the rest (which I've been told by many of my customers don't work anyway).

I am also considering a session for myself to test hypnotherapy on myself, I have a certain minor non-critical condition that the British NHS system has been unable to treat for 5 years, in spite of trying different methods. Although HT has not been shown (officially at least) to be a cure for such, I want to see if it could be effective.

But most importantly, I've been lead to The Convoluted Universe books. The author has 50 years of experience in hypnotherapy, and these books are real life-changers, but definitely belief system changers, for many people. I invite anyone to read reviews by readers on any website and to do research into the methodology used and the obtained results, which can best be uncovered by reading the books themselves, which I've already downloaded. For many, these books are a kind of Holy Grail, and I can see why.

Please do not misrepresent me. That is a rather poor inference you've made. People have told me that they saw a lake monster and it is true. They even had photos. I did not believe them.

You believe paracetamol works, even though scientists do not know HOW it works. (Surely you don't believe it works BECAUSE OF personal experience.) You believe the Sun is a star and there is nuclear fusion going on inside. You believe the Earth is "round", even though every time more "evidence" surfaced, there were (and still stand today) those explanations that clearly refute such claims. Have you been "around" the Earth? No. You believe what other people tell you. Some say they've travelled around it and you believe them without even the slightest doubt. Have you ACTUALLY read a peer reviewed paper claiming proof of the "roundness"? No. Because you believed without personally checking.

You believe because they say so, NOT BECAUSE it is your experience. You believe people have been on the moon. (Many don't because, again, it CAN be debated, like everything else can be debated.) You refuse to admit the validity of personal experience. You refuse to admit the validity of eyewitness testimonies, even when a dozen independent witnesses claim to have seen the exact same thing, with no variation in the testimonies. You believe what institutions, politicians, TV adverts (mild hypnosis) tell you. If it's on the 6-o'clock news, it must be true. Many believe the official 9-11 stories. Others don't. This is the age of questioning. Of personal authority. Of the power of personal discrimination. And the age where we realize the importance of personal experience and start developing or learning methods for ourselves, like self-hypnosis, Conscious Autosuggestion, NLP and the rest. (One of the certified local hypnotherapists I found here uses tools of NLP and EFT.)

I don't know anything about dopplegangers, but I'm interested to see where this is going, certainly a fascinating subject, especially in view of the information in the Convoluted Universe books.

[SSilhouette]

??????

Good flippin Grief, that's not what he said AT ALL. That is shameful misrepresentation.

No. He said that he believes that certain things are true because other people say they are. Here's the quote:

How many people believe in beavers and never see one. Hint, they are nocturnal. How many people have seen a bear in the wild? My record is 9 in a weekend. How many people have seen the ISS? It is up there. How many people have seen a comet? How many people have seen the rings of Saturn? I'm not counting photos online or in a book. ow many people have seen shrews? Or what about seeing a pocket gopher?

There are many things people have not seen or experienced. We rely on others to tell us about these other things that exist.

[stereologist]

No. He said that he believes that certain things are true because other people say they are. Here's the quote:

Your claim is that you didn't believe in something because you have not seen it. That is what I was responding to. There are many things that are macroscopic that people believe in and yet they have not seen them. Nowhere in there does it say that I would believe something because someone told me it was true.

Here is the quote in question: "There are many things people have not seen or experienced. We rely on others to tell us about these other things that exist." Where in there does it say that anyone believes in something because they were told it was true. I stated that in many instances we rely on others.

Somehow you've taken this to mean I do certain things. That is an inference that you have made that does not follow from what I stated.

Let me provide a concrete example concerning myself. I have not seen a UFO. I have been there when people claimed something in the sky was a UFO. It was obviously a circumpolar satellite. I have to rely on others for UFO reports since I have never seen one. I still do not believe any of the reports are about alien craft. Another concrete example. I was told someone had seen a lake monster and had photographs of it. I was shown the photographs. I do not believe they showed anything other than geese seen at a distance. I asked all of the observers a simple question. Did the lake monster move from left to right or right to left? Half the people told me left to right. The other half told me right to left. The photographs told me that the dark blobs in the water milled about in the same spot. I relied on them to report. I do not believe a lake monster exists in that lake.

A final example. A neighbor tells me a bear is in their backyard. I'm already thinking that it is the large dog several blocks away. We visit the backyard. No sign of the animal or tracks. That night I learn that bird feeders are down nearby. My dog thought is wrong. It was a bear. This time I believe and I relied on the reports made to me.

[stereologist]

In the case of the subatomic particles, we can rely on observations made in countries around the globe and in the TVs and computer screens we use. We can see evidence in rainbows and LED lights. There is evidence in lightning and static electricity sparks. The evidence is in photovoltaic cells and the chlorophyll of plants. Look at a light with a diffraction grating or the beauty of fireworks. There are many facets of the world that show us that matter comes in small particles and energy in small packets. These observations of the world led to the idea of subatomic particles and devices were built using those ideas. Those objects are all around us.

[SSilhouette]

In the case of the subatomic particles, we can rely on observations made in countries around the globe and in the TVs and computer screens we use. We can see evidence in rainbows and LED lights. There is evidence in lightning and static electricity sparks. The evidence is in photovoltaic cells and the chlorophyll of plants. Look at a light with a diffraction grating or the beauty of fireworks. There are many facets of the world that show us that matter comes in small particles and energy in small packets. These observations of the world led to the idea of subatomic particles and devices were built using those ideas. Those objects are all around us.

Aha! So you are bothered by the inability to defend "taking other people's observations as concrete fact" without yourself having proof right in front of you.

Let's just say that unlike you, I haven't made a religion out of my believing-stance, and would perfectly welcome a scientific mathematical equation in front of me to show how the vision of myself could appear to multiple witnesses sometimes 100s of miles away from where I can prove I was [with sales receipts, other witnesses etc.] Is your sceptical-stance non religious enough to allow as to how you may not be able to find an explanation for what otherwise might be true?

[stereologist]

Aha! So you are bothered by the inability to defend "taking other people's observations as concrete fact" without yourself having proof right in front of you.

Let's just say that unlike you, I haven't made a religion out of my believing-stance, and would perfectly welcome a scientific mathematical equation in front of me to show how the vision of myself could appear to multiple witnesses sometimes 100s of miles away from where I can prove I was [with sales receipts, other witnesses etc.] Is your sceptical-stance non religious enough to allow as to how you may not be able to find an explanation for what otherwise might be true?

You are so far off the mark about me that I had to laugh at your post.

Let me point out your nonsense:

1. I am bothered

2. religion out of my believing-stance

These are nonsense that you are attempting to project on me. You should concern yourself about the issue and not try to make observations about me, because you stink at it.

The issue is that we only have your word that any of this happened. There is no way to independently verify any of this. It remains an anecdote. And you wouldn't be the first person to tell me about such stories. The stories I checked into were resolved as mistaken identity. That includes people that thought I was somewhere else.

All of this chatter about sales receipts and the rest is meaningless to me. Do I need to come up with an explanation for your anecdote? No. Not even interested. All there is to go on is you telling a tale with no possibility of verifying the story. Why would anyone bother with such a tale?

Frankly, your tale offers little to nothing about the thread topic.

Edited October 2, 2014 by stereologist

[SSilhouette]

You are so far off the mark about me that I had to laugh at your post.

Let me point out your nonsense:

1. I am bothered

2. religion out of my believing-stance

These are nonsense that you are attempting to project on me. You should concern yourself about the issue and not try to make observations about me, because you stink at it.

The issue is that we only have your word that any of this happened. There is no way to independently verify any of this. It remains an anecdote. And you wouldn't be the first person to tell me about such stories. The stories I checked into were resolved as mistaken identity. That includes people that thought I was somewhere else.

All of this chatter about sales receipts and the rest is meaningless to me. Do I need to come up with an explanation for your anecdote? No. Not even interested. All there is to go on is you telling a tale with no possibility of verifying the story. Why would anyone bother with such a tale?

Frankly, your tale offers little to nothing about the thread topic.

Mistaken identity was what I thought it was each time too. And why I questioned the witnesses until frankly they started to get angry about my doubting their ability to see with their own eyes what they knew to be true.

I gave it my best sceptic's effort. And after quite a number of them were telling me the same thing, I had to concede something weird was going on. I like ballast. I don't like to dive in to stuff like that. You could get lost in that type of thinking. I get it. But I'm not lying and this is what these people told me. So now that I've said that, you'll have to wrestle with the information on your own like I did. I wish I had been one of the witnesses because then I'd be less doubting. But I've never seen my own double. I've read about them though. Accounts witnessed in England particularly by some very credible witnesses of high standing.

It happened. And now we all are stuck trying to make sense of it.

[stereologist]

The idea of doubles is not as rare as some people would think. In one of the places Iived there was a woman that was on rare occasions addressed by a name that was not her own. She became curious and decided to ask someone about this other name. She learned that there was another person that was her double only 70 miles away. She spent time there and did run into her double. After quite a bit of chatting they learned they had the same birthday and birth certificates that listed the same birth place. They were twins separated at birth.

I have a friend that has been told he has been places other than where he has been. This occurred infrequently over several years. It ended when my friend and his supposed double were seen in the same crowd. It became obvious that the two had a passing resemblance, but that was all. There were books called "Separated at Birth" that were written as jokes. They had side by photos of unrelated people that did look similar.

[SSilhouette]

The idea of doubles is not as rare as some people would think. In one of the places Iived there was a woman that was on rare occasions addressed by a name that was not her own. She became curious and decided to ask someone about this other name. She learned that there was another person that was her double only 70 miles away. She spent time there and did run into her double. After quite a bit of chatting they learned they had the same birthday and birth certificates that listed the same birth place. They were twins separated at birth.

I have a friend that has been told he has been places other than where he has been. This occurred infrequently over several years. It ended when my friend and his supposed double were seen in the same crowd. It became obvious that the two had a passing resemblance, but that was all. There were books called "Separated at Birth" that were written as jokes. They had side by photos of unrelated people that did look similar.

Not at all what I'm talking about. Real people don't appear 10 times their normal size only from the waist up, hovering over bushes...lol... That was one account. The other was where I vanished right in front of two other people. In the case of Emilee Sagee, her students were watching her actual form in the garden through a window but meanwhile her semi-transparent form was sitting behind a desk, wooden and stiff. These aren't actual forms, but apparitions reported by multiple witnesses at times; all reporting the same thing. It's compelling. There's no other way to sum it up. Even for a sceptic.

[Nnicolette]

Yes you can hypnotize animals. I learned how to hypnotize chickens from a relative on the farmer side of my family. They dont understand english but if you tip them over cover thier eyes and slowly wave them around in a circular motion they will be your zombie until you snap them out of it.

Also for you haters who didnt know psilocybin has actually been proven to cause neurogenesis. I know i will likewise be insulted but for those who dont know it is exactly as all the claims state. http://themindunleashed.org/2014/06/five-mind-blowing-facts-psilocybin-mushrooms.html The day i ate mushrooms my conciousnes expanded vastly. I saw the ebb and flow of all matter which of course doesnt make sense to someone whos never seen it but until i literally saw that all matter including the air was one harmonious flowing connection of the same energy that makes up our reality i wasnt able to comprehend god as the presence that is everything. Its an incredibly spiritual experience and not akin to other "drugs" which obviously lower the clarity of your perception.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Nnicolette

[Emma_Acid]

The day i ate mushrooms my conciousnes expanded vastly. I saw the ebb and flow of all matter which of course doesnt make sense to someone whos never seen it but until i literally saw that all matter including the air was one harmonious flowing connection of the same energy that makes up our reality i wasnt able to comprehend god as the presence that is everything.

I just felt sick for about an hour.

[Merc14]

Yes you can hypnotize animals. I learned how to hypnotize chickens from a relative on the farmer side of my family. They dont understand english but if you tip them over cover thier eyes and slowly wave them around in a circular motion they will be your zombie until you snap them out of it.

Also for you haters who didnt know psilocybin has actually been proven to cause neurogenesis. I know i will likewise be insulted but for those who dont know it is exactly as all the claims state. http://themindunleas...-mushrooms.html The day i ate mushrooms my conciousnes expanded vastly. I saw the ebb and flow of all matter which of course doesnt make sense to someone whos never seen it but until i literally saw that all matter including the air was one harmonious flowing connection of the same energy that makes up our reality i wasnt able to comprehend god as the presence that is everything. Its an incredibly spiritual experience and not akin to other "drugs" which obviously lower the clarity of your perception.

The two links to the research that supposedly proves that psilocybin helps repair damaged brain cells (this is not neurogenesis BTW, neurogenesis is the growth and development of neurons not the repair of damaged cells) is dead as is the link to the research proving psilocybin helps to balance the amygdala. So, no proof at that link.

Rolling the chicken over can also be accomplished by holding its head down and then drawing a straight line from its beak for a few feet. When you let go the chicken enters what is called tonic immobility for a short period of time. Same thing when you roll most sharks upside down. The mechanism is not fully understood nor is the reason for it but it isn't really hypnosis. Just Google tonic immobility or tonic paralysis if interested.

Never did mushrooms but some people see things and some people just get a tummy ache but primitive people equated the experience to communicating with their various gods, whichever those may have been at the time, so I guess you had some good mushrooms.

[The Necromancer]

I just felt sick for about an hour.

I did it in Central Java once when I was holidaying there....I was 19.

I was staying at a place called Pangandaran, which is a holiday resort and nature reserve on the East Coast of Java.

Pangandaran is known for its forests full of wild buffalo, humidity and native tree species....and for little 'shrooms called 'blue meanies'...although I didn't know that at the time, but my tour guide did.

Anyway, as I was leaving Pangandaran, the tour guide (who remained behind) gave me a small parcel and said 'you may find a use for this'.

The next day, I traveled overland from Pangandaran to Jogjakarta, stopping along the way to witness one of the 'ancient marvels of the universe' called the Borobudur Temple...which exists on the intersection of three natural 'Ley Lines':

https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Borobudur

I was really into Mahayana Buddhism at the time, so I made the pilgrimage around all the carvings and frescoes...then climbed up each of the nine platforms (representing the number of true chakras there are), sat under the biggest Stupa I could find, alongside a statue of Buddha...then opened and consumed the contents of my little 'parcel' then and there.

Oh....my....god! ...we're not in Kansas anymore, Toto...

I've only ever done it once since then (and will never do it again)...but the second time I did it, nothing happened and I just puked for hours and felt sick for days after that.

Edited November 4, 2015 by The Necromancer

[back to earth]

Mushrooms ?

Errrgh .....

Edited November 4, 2015 by back to earth