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IS behead US hostage Steven Sotloff

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Merc14

I'm starting to suspect that you believe in the Christian version of Jihad as much as those Islamic fanatics. Only difference is you don't look forward to martyrdom.

That's what you got out that statement? Really? LMAO.

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Earl.Of.Trumps

I agree that taking prisoners in this conflict could be counter productive. No minds or hearts will be changed. 70 years ago we destroyed the Nazis and the Imperial Japanese armies because we HAD to. The same situation exists today and if we do not fight with all we have then our way of life will be ended and a darkness will descend. Those who roll their eyes at such words are clueless IMO.

Well, not sure if I roll my eyes at it, but I don't see the IS as being any kind of immediate threat to the West.

Rag tags with no ships, no aircrafts. Oh, they may slip some terrorists through Mexico into the US some day, but I think the size of force they can actually get to the US would be easily taken care of by the Michigan Militia or some such group of parimilitary volunteers

They are growing, and they do have my attention. But I still think they are more "advertising" than anything truly lethal.

"Evil", absolutely. But close to impotent in the grand scheme of things

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Earl.Of.Trumps

I'm starting to suspect that you believe in the Christian version of Jihad as much as those Islamic fanatics. Only difference is you don't look forward to martyrdom.

Ummm,. but ya know, there's something to be said for those 77 virgins :--)

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and then

I'm starting to suspect that you believe in the Christian version of Jihad as much as those Islamic fanatics. Only difference is you don't look forward to martyrdom.

What, pray tell, is the Christian version of jihad? The bible speaks of martyrs but they don't at all resemble what jihadis believe in. A Christian martyr is one who gives up his life for the word of God and has nothing whatever to do with harming others - period. Going back to the evil of the crusades is the best that can be done by those who want to equate all religions as evil. If it makes your world view seem more righteous and sensible then drive on - but it's ridiculous and easily refuted by the reality of what Christians do all over the world. And just like acid breath, if you had valid points to make you wouldn't stoop to personal attacks.
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Space Commander Travis

Nearly every comment you make on the topic makes it very clear that you do not believe the threats are real or if real, serious enough to warrant the current rhetoric.

Rant edited, but the point is that getting hysterical about the threat to the future of the civilised world is just what this and every such gang want. Every time the State Department and John McCain and the chief of the Joint Staff emphasise in lurid terms that this is an enemy of mind-boggling evil the like of which we have never seen, IS are congratulating themselves on the success of their plan, particularly if it might lead to yet another open-ended military involvement with plenty of potential for escalation. They'd want nothing better than that. So no, I do not believe it is serious enough to warrant the current rhetoric, which is, as it so often is, mere windy bluster designed yet again to remind us that the current enemy is the most dangerous we have ever faced. Yet again. I'm all in favour of taking direct action with air strikes against them, to be sure, since they are undoubtedly a bunch of cowardly thugs, and the West did create the situation that enabled them to become a significant force, and it does have a responsibility. It might also be very interesting to see how this invincible, supernatural force could stand up to the IDF, who in this case I'd certainly be supporting. The situation seems to be different than with the "Insurgents" in Iraq, or in Gaza, since it seems fairly easy to distinguish who the enemy is and there's less danger of civilians being caught up in it.

Hope that answers your questions. :)

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President-Elect Acidhead

May his Lord help him.

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Black Red Devil

Ummm,. but ya know, there's something to be said for those 77 virgins :--)

I thought their were only 40?!! :unsure2:

Edited by Black Red Devil

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Black Red Devil

Rant edited, but the point is that getting hysterical about the threat to the future of the civilised world is just what this and every such gang want. Every time the State Department and John McCain and the chief of the Joint Staff emphasise in lurid terms that this is an enemy of mind-boggling evil the like of which we have never seen, IS™ are congratulating themselves on the success of their plan, particularly if it might lead to yet another open-ended military involvement with plenty of FINANCIAL potential for escalation. They'd want nothing better than that. So no, I do not believe it is serious enough to warrant the current rhetoric, which is, as it so often is, mere windy bluster designed yet again to remind us that the current enemy is the most dangerous we have ever faced. Yet again. I'm all in favour of taking direct action with air strikes against them, to be sure, since they are undoubtedly a bunch of cowardly thugs, and the West did create the situation that enabled them to become a significant force, and it does have a responsibility. It might also be very interesting to see how this invincible, supernatural force could stand up to the IDF, who in this case I'd certainly be supporting. The situation seems to be different than with the "Insurgents" in Iraq, or in Gaza, since it seems fairly easy to distinguish who the enemy is and there's less danger of civilians being caught up in it.

Hope that answers your questions. :)

I thought I'd add my one little word to your otherwise totally agreeable post, if you don't mind of course.

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and then

May his Lord help him.

He does all the time :)

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and then

Rant edited, but the point is that getting hysterical about the threat to the future of the civilised world is just what this and every such gang want. Every time the State Department and John McCain and the chief of the Joint Staff emphasise in lurid terms that this is an enemy of mind-boggling evil the like of which we have never seen, IS™ are congratulating themselves on the success of their plan, particularly if it might lead to yet another open-ended military involvement with plenty of potential for escalation. They'd want nothing better than that. So no, I do not believe it is serious enough to warrant the current rhetoric, which is, as it so often is, mere windy bluster designed yet again to remind us that the current enemy is the most dangerous we have ever faced. Yet again. I'm all in favour of taking direct action with air strikes against them, to be sure, since they are undoubtedly a bunch of cowardly thugs, and the West did create the situation that enabled them to become a significant force, and it does have a responsibility. It might also be very interesting to see how this invincible, supernatural force could stand up to the IDF, who in this case I'd certainly be supporting. The situation seems to be different than with the "Insurgents" in Iraq, or in Gaza, since it seems fairly easy to distinguish who the enemy is and there's less danger of civilians being caught up in it.

Hope that answers your questions. :)

So you agree there is a threat, just not a "serious" threat. That's progress, I guess. When evaluating this group's potential to do harm I'd remind you about how little investment $ it took to pull off 9-11. Personally I think that a far more devastating psychological attack could be perpetrated in small towns around this country. Malls, sports gatherings, Christmas or other holiday functions being attacked with IEDs or even small arms like the mall in Africa. It would bring home the seeming futility of all the efforts to keep Americans "safe" up til now. But this particular group would cheerfully use any bio, chemical or nuclear weapon they could lay hands on. Thankfully there is small chance of them acquiring the big toys for now (hopefully).

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Black Red Devil

I thought their were only 40?!! :unsure2:

I thought THERE were.... Ahhhhhh BRD, :no: you're starting to lose your sanity. It must be because of all these doom and gloom posts trying to make us believe that an "army" driving around in pickup trucks is going to devastate the West and the next best thing for us to do is embrace ourselves and get ready because a Holy War is coming.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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Lilly

Actually, men who give up their lives for Allah get 72 virgins in paradise. Least that's what they believe.

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I thought THERE were.... Ahhhhhh BRD, :no: you're starting to lose your sanity. It must be because of all these doom and gloom posts trying to make us believe that an "army" driving around in pickup trucks is going to devastate the West and the next best thing for us to do is embrace ourselves and get ready because a Holy War is coming.

Actually Mr Webster ( :w00t: ) , they procured 3 US division's strength of heavy weapons with support vehicles when they made their dash through Iraq. But the danger from these gentlemen(?) come not from current strength but from the fact that if they are not crushed, they have a pool of potential recruitment of 80% of the Muslim population PLUS disaffected westerners who'd love to have adventure and come home to make mayhem. So lame attempts to downplay the danger just appear like what they are - at least to reasonable people. My question is - why are you guys trying so hard to act as though IS is no real threat? It's almost like you'd rather blame the west than the brutal b******* that are slaughtering children. :unsure2:

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Space Commander Travis

3 US divisions worth???!?! A report of their strength i saw the other day suggested that they may have acquired perhaps 20 or so T-55s that the Iraq army left behind with the keys in, and perhaps an APC or two. Dear oh lord, this is just the kind of scaremongering I've been going on about.

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and then

3 US divisions worth???!?! A report of their strength i saw the other day suggested that they may have acquired perhaps 20 or so T-55s that the Iraq army left behind with the keys in, and perhaps an APC or two. Dear oh lord, this is just the kind of scaremongering I've been going on about.

I will find the source. I distinctly remember seeing those numbers. If I'm unable to then I will report THAT as well.

edit -

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/isis-taking-iraq-using-captured-american-weapons.html

I'm sure I can find others.

Edited by and then

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Black Red Devil

3 US divisions worth???!?! A report of their strength i saw the other day suggested that they may have acquired perhaps 20 or so T-55s that the Iraq army left behind with the keys in, and perhaps an APC or two. Dear oh lord, this is just the kind of scaremongering I've been going on about.

They left them behind but IS soldiers couldn't use them because the Iraqi's ran away with the Manuals, so they ended up having to Google "How to use Heavy Weapons for Idiots". It worked out well for them because, being stupider than the average idiot, they ended up blowing themselves to pieces which allowed them to join their 72 virgins.

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and then

They left them behind but IS soldiers couldn't use them because the Iraqi's ran away with the Manuals, so they ended up having to Google "How to use Heavy Weapons for Idiots". It worked out well for them because, being stupider than the average idiot, they ended up blowing themselves to pieces which allowed them to join their 72 virgins.

Actually that is pretty close to the truth. They are currently unable to fully utilize the technology but they've shown themselves to quite adroit as an organization so education of a core group of instructors shouldn't be too great a challenge. Until then they have massive amounts of simple weapons and ammo to use. Again - trying to minimize the risk these animals pose seems like a curious pastime to me.

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Black Red Devil

Actually that is pretty close to the truth. They are currently unable to fully utilize the technology but they've shown themselves to quite adroit as an organization so education of a core group of instructors shouldn't be too great a challenge. Until then they have massive amounts of simple weapons and ammo to use. Again - trying to minimize the risk these animals pose seems like a curious pastime to me.

:no: AT, AT. You compared IS to Second World War powers such as Japan and Nazi Germany LOL Talk about over exaggeration. Obviously you're trying to make out that all Muslims are our enemy (suggesting 80% would join in the jihad, which makes up about 1.2 billion muslims) and unless we send in troops before they all join up, we're doomed.

You're not concerned one little bit about the innocent children or civilians that have been dieing considering most of them are Muslims (you never have been before). My guess is you just want a war to the ultimate death so your prophecies can be fulfilled (you know, Judgement Day, Gog and Magog, the Second Coming and Jews will become Christians etc.).

There is a difference between stopping the brutality through rational strategy and throwing everything including the kitchen sink at them like you're suggesting. Also, don't try the high moral ground card suggesting I'm blaming things on the West, if anything I'm suggesting we shouldn't be risking the lives of our soldiers in another bloody guerrilla war that will suit these Islamic fundamentalists to a tee..

Edited by Black Red Devil
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jeem

Actually, men who give up their lives for Allah get 72 virgins in paradise. Least that's what they believe.

Hi Lily.I think you have some misconception regarding the virgin.

http://www.justislam.co.uk/product.php?products_id=216

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090126002909AAPLWD7

enjoy

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Space Commander Travis

Actually that is pretty close to the truth. They are currently unable to fully utilize the technology but they've shown themselves to quite adroit as an organization so education of a core group of instructors shouldn't be too great a challenge. Until then they have massive amounts of simple weapons and ammo to use. Again - trying to minimize the risk these animals pose seems like a curious pastime to me.

Why is over-exaggerating the risk these animals pose at all helpful? Surely a rational assessment of their capabilities is more useful than believing that they have the strength of three armoured divisions behind them or whatever? That just encourages over-caution, which then tends to lead to overkill (plastering the area with massive bombing raids, for instance, since we believe that they're far too dangerous to take on in direct combat). It doesn't encourage people to stand firm against the menace, it leads to defeatism if they're led to believe that the enemy is invincible. it's the kind of belief that (Godwin alert) led people to believe that there was no point standing up the Germans before WWII because they were so overwhelmingly superior it was suicide to even try.
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jeem

Rant edited, but the point is that getting hysterical about the threat to the future of the civilised world is just what this and every such gang want. Every time the State Department and John McCain and the chief of the Joint Staff emphasise in lurid terms that this is an enemy of mind-boggling evil the like of which we have never seen, IS™ are congratulating themselves on the success of their plan, particularly if it might lead to yet another open-ended military involvement with plenty of potential for escalation. They'd want nothing better than that. So no, I do not believe it is serious enough to warrant the current rhetoric, which is, as it so often is, mere windy bluster designed yet again to remind us that the current enemy is the most dangerous we have ever faced. Yet again. I'm all in favour of taking direct action with air strikes against them, to be sure, since they are undoubtedly a bunch of cowardly thugs, and the West did create the situation that enabled them to become a significant force, and it does have a responsibility. It might also be very interesting to see how this invincible, supernatural force could stand up to the IDF, who in this case I'd certainly be supporting. The situation seems to be different than with the "Insurgents" in Iraq, or in Gaza, since it seems fairly easy to distinguish who the enemy is and there's less danger of civilians being caught up in it.

Hope that answers your questions. :)

Admiral think a little bit.If Israel send troops in Syria and Iraq it will certainly make the situation worse.IS can draw more recruit if Israel send their troops in Syria and Iraq.

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Lilly

Hi Lily.I think you have some misconception regarding the virgin.

I was told (by a muslim person no less) that the 72 virgin idea came from an old traditional story. I didn't say it came from the Quran. I suppose that many don't believe this...but I'm pretty sure some do.

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Space Commander Travis

If it helps at all,

The idea of 72 virgins in Islam refers to an aspect of paradise. In a collection by Abu `Isa Muhammad ibn `Isa at-Tirmidhi in his Jami` at-Tirmidhi[56] and also quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir ibn Kathir of sura 55[57] it is stated:

It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim, that Abu al-Haytham 'Adullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa'id al-Khudhri, who heard Muhammad saying, 'The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, over which stands a dome decorated with
,
and
, as wide as the distance from
to
.

However, regarding the above statement Hafiz Salahuddin Yusuf has said: "The narration, which claims that everyone would have seventy-two wives has a weak chain of narrators."[40] There is also a theory that the promise of 72 virgins is a mistranslation from "72 angels".[59]

In the same collection of hadiths, however, the following is judged strong (hasan sahih):

That the Messenger of Allah said: "There are six things with Allah for the
. He is forgiven with the first flow of blood (he suffers), he is shown his place in Paradise, he is protected from punishment in the grave, secured from the greatest terror, the crown of dignity is placed upon his head - and its gems are better than the world and what is in it - he is married to seventy two wives among Al-Huril-'Ayn of Paradise, and he may intercede for seventy of his close relatives."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri#72_virgins

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Lilly

This part:

That the Messenger of Allah said: "There are six things with Allah for the martyr. He is forgiven with the first flow of blood (he suffers), he is shown his place in Paradise, he is protected from punishment in the grave, secured from the greatest terror, the crown of dignity is placed upon his head - and its gems are better than the world and what is in it - he is married to seventy two wives among Al-Huril-'Ayn of Paradise, and he may intercede for seventy of his close relatives."[60]

Seems to me to offer a pretty high incentive for martyrdom.

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bee

Admiral think a little bit.If Israel send troops in Syria and Iraq it will certainly make the situation worse.IS can draw more recruit if Israel send their troops in Syria and Iraq.

I think you have a good point there. jeem....

And also they need all their troops for defending Israel at the moment...?

It is the Israel Defence Forces after all...

.

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