Pound falls as Yes vote strengths.

[kartikg]

How is the situation in Scotland anyways, if the country decides to stay in the union, how will the pro independent ppl react? Will there be strikes , mass protest calling that the elections were rigged. It's usually pro independence people that make lot of noise and it's usually that their voices are heard .

[Crabby Kitten]

I LOVE the view that Stevewinn has on this thread.

Overlook the bad knuckle dragging types on each corner and there is a type of family as we've all lived together on the island for centuries. It's people like Alex Salmond that is doing the stirring and wanting to take big chunks of cake and leave the rest of the UK with nasty maggots. He's poo flinging and making normal Scottish people think that England is evil.

[skookum]

Really weird thread.

Slate the UK for North sea oil and its revenues. Then promote a Scottish independence based on an economic model based on fossil fuels?

Massive sour grapes comes to mind on this issue or more accurately hypocrisy so apparent a 9 year old could search out from previous posts.

[Guest]

Really weird thread.

Slate the UK for North sea oil and its revenues. Then promote a Scottish independence based on an economic model based on fossil fuels?

Massive sour grapes comes to mind on this issue or more accurately hypocrisy so apparent a 9 year old could search out from previous posts.

The reality is that N.Sea oil will get extracted - what ever I think Skookum. Its just been realistic.

Br Cornelius

[bee]

I don't really know anyone from Northern Ireland well, but I fully expect them to be very friendly as well...

well...fancy that...just a short while after writing this a friend came round with a friend of hers that

I hadn't met before...and guess where she lives...Northern Ireland.! Near Belfast..

So I asked her how friendly and accepting she found the people there (she is from the Midlands but

moved to NI 8 years ago...)

She said they were very friendly towards her and her family from the moment she arrived.

One story about something that happened in the first week she was over there was almost

over-the-top friendly...

She was in a café with her young daughter and some workmen were making a fuss of the girl and

gave her £5...they left and a bit later she went to pay the bill and was told that the workmen had paid

it for her when they left..!

.

[Guest]

I live in S.Ireland and the people have no issue with me personally as an Englishman. This is my common experience in Wales, Ireland and Scotland.

However I know for a fact that hatred/dislike of the English is common in the community I live in and there is still a strong Anti-British republican feeling at large.

The two things are not at all incompatible as surprising as it might be to understand.

The Scots as a nation have a general dislike of the English but are quite capable of been civil to an Englishperson - who would have guessed. Where has all the nuanced thinking gone from the world

Its just like the old skinheads who quite often had coloured or mixed race members of the gang whilst still been generally racist. Humans are funny things.

Br Cornelius

Edited September 9, 2014 by Guest

[itsnotoutthere]

"The Scots as a nation have a general dislike of the English......"

Yes, this is common knowledge, & probably another good reason why an independent scotland would be welcomed by the English. (as long as the split is full, final & unequivocal)

Edited September 9, 2014 by itsnotoutthere

[Space Commander Travis]

According to the daily Mirror today, a "Yes!!! " vote could topple david Cameron and bring the Government down. So another good reason there.

* Incidentally, have you noticed that the last three pry Ministers have all had Scottish origins? Mr. C's father was Scottish, T. Blair was born in Edinburgh, and there was that other one who came between them, whose name I forget, who I'm pretty sure was Scottish as well. So would they be disqualified from standing in England if Scotland did become independent? Surely that'd be the clincher right there.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Admiral Rhubarb

[stevewinn]

According to the daily Mirror today, a "Yes!!! " vote could topple david Cameron and bring the Government down. So another good reason there.

* Incidentally, have you noticed that the last three pry Ministers have all had Scottish origins? Mr. C's father was Scottish, T. Blair was born in Edinburgh, and there was that other one who came between them, whose name I forget, who I'm pretty sure was Scottish as well. So would they be disqualified from standing in England if Scotland did become independent? Surely that'd be the clincher right there.

I think the Prime minister would have to stand down if he loses Scotland. The Tory party would still be in office and we'd end up with Nick Clegg as Prime Minister. but the government would look much the same. Tory-Lib Dems - Next year is the General election and even if the YES vote wins in Scotland it wont be granted independent until 2017 at the earliest. that means the people of Scotland are still eligible to vote in the UK general Election 2015.

If the Labour Party where to win the general election in 2015. within two years, - on the date of Scotland becoming independent Labour would lose 40 MP's and with that any majority they held, in effect becoming a lame duck Government, unable to govern. A snap general election would follow and Labour wouldn't have a hope in hell of winning, the Tory party would win outright and go on to dominate British politics for the next decade.

Its Funny how the SNP party pedal the line of the Scottish voters don't get the government they vote for. Its thanks to Scotland we had 13 years of a Labour Government and two Scottish Prime ministers. in Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. - the SNP have stated no-longer would Scotland be dragged into wars. funny that the UK was dragged into two wars. by a political party who where in office thanks to the Scottish vote and led by a Scottish born Prime Minister. you'd think the "better together" campaign would have highlighted this fact but they are more concerned with not disgracing or criticising one another. than countering the SNP's line.

On the "Better together" Campaign they should have had Gordon Brown front and centre from the start. - regardless of what we think of him or his time in office, on the political scene Gordon Brown is a political heavyweight and these are the type of politicians you need fighting your corner. We've let Alistair Darling take all the blows and wheeled out a fresh Gordon Brown on the eleventh hour to save the day and hoping he lands a knock out punch to Alex Salmond and the SNP.

How is the situation in Scotland anyways, if the country decides to stay in the union, how will the pro independent ppl react? Will there be strikes , mass protest calling that the elections were rigged. It's usually pro independence people that make lot of noise and it's usually that their voices are heard .

I think whatever the result - the outcome will be respected, I think the people of Scotland will remain civilised as they always have. But IF there is a YES vote we might see panic, strikes and protests if the Scottish people see a flight of capital moving out of Scotland and down South of the border. you only have to look at the financial markets reaction so far, all the big institutions and manufacturing company's such as RBS, LLoyds, Standard Chartered, HSBC, Pensions, Military ship building yards Babcock all seen their shares fall and this is just the start - Its not scare tactics, or bluff and bluster as the SNP like to say and simply dismiss the reality of the situation. If Scotland votes YES. financially the situation can be summed up in one word. Catastrophe.

Don't take my word on it, take the Scottish Chambers of Commerce word, findings. 10% of Firms are considering moving away from Scotland. 8% have definite plans to move and that 5% would expand their English operations or set up an English company. Standard Life, an insurer, has said it has drawn up contingency plans to move south in the event of a “Yes” vote. LLoyds Banking group has already registered an address in London but is yet to commit to moving its Headquarters from Edinburgh to London. But It has been widely reported that Lloyds Banking Group, which owns Bank of Scotland, would shift its headquarters from Edinburgh to London in the event of a YES vote. these are not bully boy tactics these are economic realities. by institutions and companys who exist to make money, invest, Shares and Pensions. they need a stable environment to be able to do trade and business.

When it comes to Personal loans and mortgages in Scotland. who is going to back the Banks in a independent Scotland. whose going to provide protection for private and personal savings. the UK or Bank of England currently provides protection up to 85,000 pounds in one institution. how will an independent Scotland be able to afford that for its 5million people.

[Shayde]

Its Funny how the SNP party pedal the line of the Scottish voters don't get the government they vote for. Its thanks to Scotland we had 13 years of a Labour Government and two Scottish Prime ministers. in Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. - the SNP have stated no-longer would Scotland be dragged into wars. funny that the UK was dragged into two wars. by a political party who where in office thanks to the Scottish vote and led by a Scottish born Prime Minister. you'd think the "better together" campaign would have highlighted this fact but they are more concerned with not disgracing or criticising one another. than countering the SNP's line.

.

Ah, but that's an example of "memory loss" that occurs with certain MPs. As like "don't mention the war" please don't remind the voting public that this happened...

I have a few worries over the latest polling results. They'll sound daft admittedly, but indulge me:

The more the public hear that the numbers are rising for the yes campaign, the more some - not all - may think: "Oh hell, if that's close I might as well throw my hat in with them. To heck with any consequences!" Yes, that suggests that some voters are easily lead, but it's a factor. Look at the SNP yesterday. "Oh look, here's a famous actor! Vote for us and he may - but probably not - return to our country!"

Thing with that is A. Where the hell is Sir Sean? He's been very quiet....

B. So what that a few actors - who go where their work needs them to be, and in the case of Alan Cumming who only bought a house here in order to be able to vote - say they're in with the yes lot. We need facts in order to make a choice, not a flaming endorsement from a bloody celeb!

From the BBC in the last few minutes I hear that both Cameron and Millibrand are calling off this week's PMQs to be up here to campaign. What a bloody bad idea. Up here we have it bashed into most of the population to despise the Tories. So having a Tory PM here is not - stress NOT - going to be a help at all. It has the hallmarks of backfiring. As for Millibrand... Christ.... This is almost as bad as hearing that we may get the likes of John Prescott coming to help. Okay, he may be a man to have on hand should another guy get egged by a protestor, but he isn't the best one to bring up here. He couldn't even convince the English regions to employ him as either a police commissioner or go for devolved governments!

Look, the figures say that it'll be up to the undecided voters here, as it should be. But we need facts, not hyperbole or general crap to make a decision. Because this is a big one that has ramifications for the whole country, not just us Scots. And I worry this is going to go the same way as the Darien trading colony...

[stevewinn]

Ah, but that's an example of "memory loss" that occurs with certain MPs. As like "don't mention the war" please don't remind the voting public that this happened...

I have a few worries over the latest polling results. They'll sound daft admittedly, but indulge me:

The more the public hear that the numbers are rising for the yes campaign, the more some - not all - may think: "Oh hell, if that's close I might as well throw my hat in with them. To heck with any consequences!" Yes, that suggests that some voters are easily lead, but it's a factor. Look at the SNP yesterday. "Oh look, here's a famous actor! Vote for us and he may - but probably not - return to our country!"

Thing with that is A. Where the hell is Sir Sean? He's been very quiet....

B. So what that a few actors - who go where their work needs them to be, and in the case of Alan Cumming who only bought a house here in order to be able to vote - say they're in with the yes lot. We need facts in order to make a choice, not a flaming endorsement from a bloody celeb!

From the BBC in the last few minutes I hear that both Cameron and Millibrand are calling off this week's PMQs to be up here to campaign. What a bloody bad idea. Up here we have it bashed into most of the population to despise the Tories. So having a Tory PM here is not - stress NOT - going to be a help at all. It has the hallmarks of backfiring. As for Millibrand... Christ.... This is almost as bad as hearing that we may get the likes of John Prescott coming to help. Okay, he may be a man to have on hand should another guy get egged by a protestor, but he isn't the best one to bring up here. He couldn't even convince the English regions to employ him as either a police commissioner or go for devolved governments!

Look, the figures say that it'll be up to the undecided voters here, as it should be. But we need facts, not hyperbole or general crap to make a decision. Because this is a big one that has ramifications for the whole country, not just us Scots. And I worry this is going to go the same way as the Darien trading colony...

A major theme running through the SNP - is the Anti-Tory rhetoric. - The Prime Minister has the right to travel anywhere in the UK, and that includes Scotland, even if that's in a bid in to try and keep Scotland part of the Union. If the presence of the Tory leader and Prime minister in Scotland makes some vote YES then so be it. these people obviously don't understand the issue at hand, and i find it worrying that some voters would throw away 307 years of History and traditions on such folly. Its akin to basically destroying their house and home just to score a point against the Conservative party. the Conservative party will eventually be voted out and replaced and when they are those voters will look around and see their home destroyed and for what? nothing.

Gordon Brown needs to beat the drum that we do well out of each other, but only because we are together. We are stronger and happier in every way. We are a family, bound together by the islands we share, blood ties that go back thousands of years and pre dating the modern concept of a nation state, shared history, shared values, culture, and a myriad of other things. The people of these Isles need to realise the Unity of the people goes far beyond that of the politics of here today gone tomorrow. Has a people in the 307 years - how many changes in the world and Political have we witnessed together and yet throughout it all it wasn't the political system that kept us united but the unity of the people. we've fought in Wars and it wasn't for the Politicians or the Political system it was for our shared values, It was for our home, It was for the Isles we inhabit, It was for the British Isles, It was for the United Kingdom. It really would be a crying shame if the majority voted to leave and just throw it away.

[Guest]

Unfortunately Steve, once you take away the Tory element (which is a big element), you still have the Westminster element. Been ruled by a Parliament which has shown itself to be biased towards economic policies which have favoured a tiny corner of the UK means that even if it wasn't about the Tories - it would still be about the English dictating Scotlands national agenda.

The Scots as a people never willingly went into the Union, they were colonized and then the colonizers brought them in. That is a historic fact which weighs heavy on their minds. Your imagined nostalgia that the Scots have for the great union is largely a projection of the English onto their colonial subjects.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see the Union continue - but only after London was removed from been the centre of the UK universe.

Br Cornelius

Edited September 9, 2014 by Guest

[TSS]

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see the Union continue - but only after London was removed from been the centre of the UK universe.

Br Cornelius

Which isn't going to happen.

I wish them well, and if they go it alone I hope it turns out to be the better option for them.

[Shayde]

Steve, you make valid, informed points. And that's what we need. However....

Every spokesperson from the yes mob on either BBC or Sky today has used the term "Westminster elite", just to ram it home to those voters who cannot see past history - whether right, wrong or imagined - that you cannot trust the lot who rule from London. I can guess (I might be wrong) that when the three leaders turn up tomorrow we'll get more of the same, on every broadcast, at every meeting, and we'll get the same old lines about how we never get who we vote for, and blah, blah sodding blah...

I know that from experience that the Tories are not a force up here. Last time I voted, at the polling station there were reps from each party except from the Tories. They just don't bother in many districts to even turn up. "You can't trust them", or "You've got to vote Labour or SNP to keep them Tories out!" is what a lot of folk here come out with. Frankly, that is beyond stupid, since they forget just how much worse the other parties can be. When Cameron turns up, he will get flack. He gets flack for not turning up. He knows he's on a hiding to nothing because a lot of folk won't listen to what he says, he's just a Tory and that means you have to hate him!

Sounds pathetic? You'd be right...

[Space Commander Travis]

Oh, I absolutely agree, i'd so like London to become a separate state so it doesn't absolutely dominate every single bloody thing. it's not that I hate the place, it just exists under a set of completely different economic laws to the rest of the world, money is literally no object when it comes to spending on incredibly extravagant rail projects or designing some completely new super duper bus at a cost of billions because nothing else will do for London, and all the rest of it, and everywhere else it's always "ooh, we don't have the money, we have to tighten our belts, times are hard."

[Space Commander Travis]

Steve, you make valid, informed points. And that's what we need. However....

Every spokesperson from the yes mob on either BBC or Sky today has used the term "Westminster elite", just to ram it home to those voters who cannot see past history - whether right, wrong or imagined - that you cannot trust the lot who rule from London.

The thing is, that's exactly the same for anywhere in England outside London and the counties that are the satellites of it. Everything that's done (see comment above) is purely decided on the basis of what's good for London, as it's the Global Financial Powerhouse (i.e. it makes its fortune trading in something that's essentially completely imaginary). Manchester is beginning to get enough clout to challenge that when it comes to Government spending, but everywhere else, whether it's the northeast, the midlands, the southwest, everywhere else isn't important, it's only London that is.

[Aardvark-DK]

I still laugh my *** off, when I see a picture of that lady that has Stuart blood....that plastic shapen lady...nice Queen btw...

[+and-then]

My opinion means nothing I'm sure, but it will make me sad to see such an ancient bond broken. Breaking things hardly ever strengthen the various leftover parts. I hope it can be worked out short of such a sundering.

[bee]

.

I have said previously that I don't want Scotland to leave....and would like the 'no' vote to win...

But here's something for the 'yes' camp.....

The Artist Taxi Driver having a good old rant...in support of the Yes vote...

He thinks Scottish Independence will be won by a landslide....

[media=]

[/media]

.

[skookum]

Was going to post but then gave up the will to argue.

Go for it Scotland, whichever way you vote I wish you the best.

Edited September 9, 2014 by skookum

[danielost]

Your joking right ?

The Euro has its own problems.

Its the structural problems of the UK economy which have been masked by N.Sea oil for 40years which are at issue here. All of the governments for nearly a half century have failed to address what really ails the British economy.

Br Cornelius

what ails the british economy and europes economy and most of all the states in the usa have a common cause. socialism. how long can you poay nfor everyones health care with out having a plan to pay for it.

Your joking right ?

The Euro has its own problems.

Its the structural problems of the UK economy which have been masked by N.Sea oil for 40years which are at issue here. All of the governments for nearly a half century have failed to address what really ails the British economy.

Br Cornelius

what ails the british economy and europes economy and most of all the states in the usa have a common cause. socialism. how long can you poay nfor everyones health care with out having a plan to pay for it.

[Guest]

what ails the british economy and europes economy and most of all the states in the usa have a common cause. socialism. how long can you poay nfor everyones health care with out having a plan to pay for it.

what ails the british economy and europes economy and most of all the states in the usa have a common cause. socialism. how long can you poay nfor everyones health care with out having a plan to pay for it.

Not remotely true Daniel - what ails the UK economy is an over reliance on the financial industry and property speculation, a neglect of productive work resulting in embedded levels of unemployment. Also a country which has no strategic development policy which has allowed a small area of the country to suck in most of the wealth and left the rest of the country out to dry.

Don't talk about thinks you have little understanding of and don't use stock boggy man arguments to explain complex issues.

Br Cornelius

[stevewinn]

Unfortunately Steve, once you take away the Tory element (which is a big element), you still have the Westminster element. Been ruled by a Parliament which has shown itself to be biased towards economic policies which have favoured a tiny corner of the UK means that even if it wasn't about the Tories - it would still be about the English dictating Scotlands national agenda.

The Scots as a people never willingly went into the Union, they were colonized and then the colonizers brought them in. That is a historic fact which weighs heavy on their minds. Your imagined nostalgia that the Scots have for the great union is largely a projection of the English onto their colonial subjects.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see the Union continue - but only after London was removed from been the centre of the UK universe.

Br Cornelius

London is the Capital of the country. nearing 9 Million people. it's always going to play a major role in the economy of the country and that of the United Kingdom. London ranks in the top 5 richest cities in the world why would you not invest in the Capital to keep it generating money? If you do something well you push home your advantage. The United Kingdom is so small. i can catch a train here in Liverpool Lime street and in 2 hours 7 mins I'd arrive in Euston London. Its that weak argument of blaming regional failures on London. - It's the stupid notion of socialism and that everyone can share in the wealth and if they don't - out pops the green eyed monster and thoughts turn to tearing apart the system. cutting off the nose to spite the face.

Plus lets remember in our liberal Socialist mindset in this country we frown upon entrepreneurship, where others around the world applaud it. If someone has ambitions to become an entrepreneur, its all well and good until they make it, and then the green eyed monster comes out yet again - TAX them to death they have wealth we don't. put a TAX on that million pound house they live in because we rent, TAX luxury Cars, because we have to travel on the Bus. the whole lot makes me sick.

Trouble is we still live in the shadow and memory of mass employment jobs of the 60's - NEWS is long gone are the mass employment jobs, advancing technology including robots etc. have seen the end to that along with Global competitiveness the trick is to manufacture goods or services others around the world cannot do themselves and so you create a demand for your services and goods - So you either run the risk of becoming a jack of all trades and the master of none. You choose the path and specialise Its the only way forward in this globalised world of ours. the whole dynamic of global trade as changed.

So the United Kingdom specialises in highend high quality sectors, not easily replicated, or take major investment others can ill afford. take the city of London, If it was cheap and easy to replicate others would have done it already. that's why the city of London dominates in Europe and the world. then we have Aerospace industry. Defence industry, Chemical textiles, Pharmaceutical Industry, Car Industry. Science and Science research development, Computer Science, including design and technology, We're the worlds 4th Largest exporter in the world, 5th Largest importer.

Blaming everything on London is the easy option. truth is people are reluctant to adjust, evolve in step with the changing world. look at the coal miners as an example, most ended up on Benefits and remained there. they thought because their father and his before him worked down the mines that's what they done. and couldn't do a job beyond being a miner. the Employment minister at the time stated "people should get on their bike and look for work" that statement caused a uproar at the time. How dare the political elite tells us proud workers to get on our bike and find work. well looking back now, at the changing world, millions of Migrants around the world got on their bikes, Cars, Trains, Boats and Planes to look for work.

Just to finish on the point of Westminster, and its a thorn in the side of the Scots along with the Tories. Can someone please tell me of a Western Country of the same standing of the United Kingdom where their government is loved by the people. Ask an America, Canadian, Australian, German, French, Danish, Dutch, Swedish anyone the question about their government and every single one of them would say, they are rubbish, a waste of time, haven't a clue what their doing, out of touch with the ordinary man on the street, couldn't run a bath let alone a country. So what exactly is the point about moaning about the Government or Parliament. Its nothing new. - Alex Salmond and the SNP are promising the Scots Jam Tomorrow. if they deliver Jam tomorrow they'll be the first political party in History to do so. remember the American Elections Obama, First Black President carrying the hopes of millions of African Americans, thinking finally Change, "YES WE CAN" was the slogan - what happened. "SAME OLD" So when the Scots go to vote, bear that in mind. you'll be swapping Westminster for Alex Salmond and it will be the same old. the only difference you'll have to throw everything and more away to achieve that. - the same old. mark my words.

Edited September 10, 2014 by stevewinn

[Shayde]

Well, yesterday was fun....

Let's see. We had Cameron up to do a speech at a bank.

Then we had Millibrand up doing another impassioned speech.

Clegg was doing something...

Salmond was out in a nice area that likes him.

And we had Prescott, doing what he does best. Speaking bloody claptrap...

Oh, and we ought not forget the media, who at times got daft answers from the public to at times daft questions from the media.

Now, let's break this down.

Cameron. Comes to Edinburgh, and in a controlled environment does a speech which included the word "effing". But he didn't try to talk to any of the local population. Not a surprise, as he'd have got booed and jeered - as he done when leaving the banking sector. But it's nice to see that he went straight to the folk that matter, The ones with the cash...

Millibrand. Can he ever do a speech that DOESN'T need him to have a small and ethnic group behind him? Does he get lonely on stage and needs the chorus to boost his esteem?

Clegg. Not kidding, I still have NO idea where he was at all! Partly due to the way his visit was covered, but mostly due to the fact that he did nothing note worthy.

Salmond. Now I know where he was during the morning, an estate that is core SNP to the hilt. And I just adore how his lot ignore any dissent but shout to the heavens when somebody says he's right. Arrogant little....

Prescott. Went to Glasgow, got off the battle bus - but they sent out the rent-a-mob support first - then he did a speech which was more in keeping with an election and not really to do with the thing he was meant to do, which was echo the Yes campaign. Alas, no eggs were thrown...

And of course, the press. Did love Sky, and one of their mob in Princes street asking people how they'd vote. Especially the one wifie who said "Ah'm voting Aye! Do you think ah'm soft in the heid!"

So with one last week to go, and now two more banks telling all that they are likely with a yes vote to relocate down to England, a story from one paper telling us Scots to just go - and by implication go to hell - and overseas not showing too much interest in the vote (China rather tactfully saying that if the UK does split, well, that means we may need our UN membership of the Security Council looked at. Didn't think of that, did we SNP?) and one radio station in England now not playing and music that came from Scotland, the campaign does appear to be in very rude health...

[Monkfish]

I don't think they have even considered their position regards The European Song Contest.