Pound falls as Yes vote strengths.

[Harry_Dresden]

Do i take it that you say Yes to Yes, then? So if that is the case, could you explain how Alex would sort out the economic questions and the questions about defence and membership of the Eu and so on, since so far Alex doesn't seem to have been able to answer them?

You make it seem like independence is purely measured on financial viability alone. In Scotland's case, it will require adjustment/trial and error but it's not like Scotland is gonna be another Somalia, and the EU will be airlifting food to the masses of "starving" Scots to avert a humanitarian mistake in opting of independence. If Cameron and Osborne, want to be vindictive and punish the very same people they are trying to convince that they are all part of one big British family, by not sharing the pound or opposing a newly independent Scotland's entry into the EU and NATO then why should Alex take the blame for not succumbing to blackmail?

[bee]

,

Nigel Farage being interviewed on msnbc...about Scottish Independence...

I suppose IF the Yes Vote wins...the UKIP party will be weakened..? dunno...

As in..it would be easier to be independent from Europe with England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Island all together..?

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRHJPa5X8AE[/media]

[bee]

Strange yet slightly amusing that the NO camp appeal to British nationalism and unity YET completely disregard Scottish nationalism and suggest that it's somehow obsolete, not needed due to decentralisation or that it should take a back seat to blackmail and the financial and political uncertainty that this blackmail is creating.

Very strange indeed.

I have always thought that all the countries in Britain are nationalistic about their own particular country...

And to differing degrees nationalistic about the UK as a whole...

Better Together and all that...

So..I don't think Scottish Nationalism is being disregarded....it's just considered a natural and expected nationalism that all the

UK countries have...

.

[stevewinn]

You make it seem like independence is purely measured on financial viability alone. In Scotland's case, it will require adjustment/trial and error but it's not like Scotland is gonna be another Somalia, and the EU will be airlifting food to the masses of "starving" Scots to avert a humanitarian mistake in opting of independence. If Cameron and Osborne, want to be vindictive and punish the very same people they are trying to convince that they are all part of one big British family, by not sharing the pound or opposing a newly independent Scotland's entry into the EU and NATO then why should Alex take the blame for not succumbing to blackmail?

I note your use of the word 'vindictive, and if Cameron and Osborne want to be vindictive and punish the people' of Scotland if the YES vote wins. - just think for a second what will happen in the event of a YES vote. by default Scotland cease being in Union with the remaining United Kingdom and will instead be in direct competition with the remaining UK for resources, services, trade, and foreign investment, etc... Scotland on the date granted for independence will become as foreign as any other country who is outside the United Kingdom, with Scotland not being a EU member, we will have to impose a import tax on goods from Scotland. a rate between 5% and 75% depending on the goods.

All the trade links and deals Scotland as been privy to as part of the United Kingdom will be lost and Scotland will have to renegotiate its own trade deals. currently Scotland benefits by being part of the United Kingdom. a union that without Scotland is still ten times the size of Scotland. you have to ask yourself once import tax is imposed on the major exports of Scotland many items will be cheaper to import from elsewhere via existing long establish trade deals.

The Remaining United Kingdom. does not have to give Scotland favourable terms or policies. be treated like a special case, our long established foreign trading partners would raise the question, ask us the question why a foreign country - Scotland was granted special terms and conditions. for example we couldn't jeopardise our trading relations with other partners around the world who have larger market opportunities compared to Scotland's 5million population market.

Scotland by choosing independence has decided to walk away from the United Kingdom. it wasn't asked to leave, no one showed Scotland the door. Scotland would be walking away from a 307 year union, the worlds 6th largest economy, a member of the EU, world Trade Organisation, worlds 4th largest exporter, 5th largest importer, member of the G7, G8 G20, permanent member of the United Nations. and NATO.

An independent Scotland would have the same influence on the world as Singapore. and even if eventually Scotland joins the EU, Scotland's standing wouldn't increase dramatically, and influence in the EU would be similar to that of Slovakia or Rep Ireland.

But i have a bad feeling the English will be blamed for the consequence that the future holds for Scotland in the event of a YES vote. everyone who is anyone as come out and stated it would be a disaster for Scotland to leave the United Kingdom.

just look at the actions of the SNP Alex Salmond over the weekend. the SNP, Alex Salmond has launch a formal compliant, and the SNP have notified the Police - on the grounds the treasury broke ministerial rules when it confirmed to journalists that the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) planned to relocate its registered headquarters from Edinburgh to London in the event of a "Yes" vote.

So Alex Salmond and the SNP would rather hide the realities of the situation they'd rather keep that information from the people who are going to vote in the referendum. Police Scotland have confirmed they have received a complaint from RBS shareholder Peter de Vink, a supporter of independence for Scotland, alleging the UK government leaked market-sensitive information about the bank.

in the news,

Deutsche Bank boss

The financial and economic arguments against Scottish independence are "overwhelming", a leading bank warned as it compared a Yes vote to the mistakes which led to the Great Depression of the 1930s.

In one of the starkest warnings yet issued by a financial institution, the chief economist at Deutsch Bank David Folkerts-Landau said voters and politicians had failed to grasp the potential severity of the negative consequences of separation. He said he found it "incomprehensible" that Scots were even contemplating withdrawal from the United Kingdom, and pointed to the "recessions, higher taxes, lower public spending and higher interest rates" that had afflicted nations seen as potentially heading for the eurozone exit.

In a highly-critical analysis of the prospects of independence, Mr Folkerts-Landau said: "Everyone has the right to self-determination and to exercise his or her democratic rights. "But there are times when fundamental political decisions have negative consequences far beyond what voters and politicians could have imagined. We feel that we are on the threshold of one such moment. "A Yes vote for Scottish independence on Thursday would go down in history as a political and economic mistake as large as Winston Churchill's decision in 1925 to return the pound to the Gold Standard or the failure of the Federal Reserve to provide sufficient liquidity to the US banking system, which we now know brought on the Great Depression in the US.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/deutsche-bank-boss-compared-yes-vote-to-blunders-that-led-to-great-depressi.1410553551

The SNP's reaction to all these businesses, Banks and institutions warning of damaging consequences to Scotland voting YES was to reply with. - First Minister Alex Salmond said the Scots would not be "bullied" by oil companies, supermarkets or London.

Thats the SNP's answer to everything bluff, bullying or scaremongering. I loved it in a street yesterday when a young 16 year voter asked Salmond the question, If the SNP lay claim to 8% of UK assets, does that mean the remaining United Kingdom, claim the 92% of Scotland's. he just looked at her before walking off down the street, ushered away by his entourage.

[spud the mackem]

If the Scots go native after the Vote, can anyone help me to rebuild Hadrians Wall, which runs between Durham (Mackems Country) and Northumberland (Geordie land) so we shall get rid of the Scots AND Geordies in one swoop. Yeehaa.....p.s....I still hope you Scots stay with us as you will spoil the Union Flag if you go..

[Shayde]

The accusations of bullying, the name calling, and general childish behaviour is coming from both sides in the vote, but doesn't do us up here any favours. It was reported that off camera on that debate held in Glasgow with a stadium of school kids - the first time voters - one did shout out: "We have an excuse for not being mature. What's yours?!!" at the stage. No report tells if there was a response.

Thing is, as has been said, there we have the pro campaign. They get a rebuttal to any of their arguments, they ignore or bring forth an expert who disagrees. Sometimes even if the rebuttal is backed up with multiple arguments against. And right now - and it's a bit that grates with me, penny pinching sod that I am - we have Salmond flitting around by helicopter touring his realm. Who the hells is paying for this extravagance? Doesn't look like good fiscal policy if you waste cash like this! But on that score, it was pointed out by another that this is a parallel to Kinnock, remember? He did that big event during the Major era, where he came to a Labour gathering by chopper, and with music playing and the crowd - all party members so of course they'd cheer - walked in shouting to the throng he was to be the next Prime Minister? And look what happened then...

[bee]

.

OMG....Auld Lang Syne at the end of Last Night of the Proms...extra emotional feel to it..

under the circumstances.

[Space Commander Travis]

mind you, i can sympathise with the "YES!!!" campaign given this kind of scaremongering ...

• Stark Warning Of 'Border Guards On Hadrian's Wall' In Independent Scotland
  

[bee]

.

OK...let's have a bit of flag waving....

[media=]

[/media]

FFS Scotland.

Don't leave the Union.

.

[Harry_Dresden]

Attention Stevewinn

C'mon mate. What is really going to change if Scotland votes Yes? Apart from defence, flag? and foreign policy, nothing needs to be any different. And if the rest of the UK allowed for NATO and EU membership then it could even pave the way for a new union and defence pact. As it stands, even with a NO vote, Holyrood, gets extra powers of government that are inches away from independence anyway. So in reality the entire NO debate is about delaying the inevitable anyway, so I fail to see the English position. Why negotiate from a position of weakness 20 years from now, when Westminster's bargaining power on trade, currency and defence will never be greater now.

I wanna touch upon defence and NATO for a moment. NATO is a defence union under a nuclear umbrella so when push comes to shove, a newly independent, Scotland, will have to accept nuclear protection and free military movement within its boarders to be part of the NATO alliance. Concerning this, Salmond and Co, unfortunately are grandstanding the issue. UK missiles and their boats could still operate under a revised agreement if the climate and will for negotiation across the board was there, which unfortunately it is not since other issues like the pound and customs have dominated the debate.

As for trade with an independent, Scotland, I don't think that the rest of the UK has the luxury of not continuing unhindered trade. Just look at the southward movement of the pound the last couple of days as conformation. All UK businesses are intertwined and all depend on the same lines of infrastructure and finance, so Cameron and Osborne are just trying to influence the referendum in much the same manner as Salmond is with the UK's nuclear deterrent. In the event of a Yes vote (highly doubtful), Cameron, assuming that he hasn't resigned, will keep Scotland hitched to the UK economy and life will go on as before. And if the NO vote prevails then we'll be having this debate all over again in 20 years.

[Space Commander Travis]

yes, there is that as well isn't there, the threat that D. Cameron will have to resign and the Coalition government come crashing down.

I'm beginning to wish that I did have a vote.

[bee]

.

If everything will be more or less the same.....that is..if you are correct about that Harry Dresden....

why bother to cause all this disruption and bad feeling...?

.

[bee]

yes, there is that as well isn't there, the threat that D. Cameron will have to resign and the Coalition government come crashing down.

I'm beginning to wish that I did have a vote.

you seriously think it could bring down the government....?

that isn't going to happen

IMO

But that kind of short term wishful thinking is probably one of the emotions driving a lot of the Yes Camp....

Like....'that'll teach them'...haha....cutting off their nose to spite their face....

.

[Duke Wellington]

yes, there is that as well isn't there, the threat that D. Cameron will have to resign and the Coalition government come crashing down.

I'm beginning to wish that I did have a vote.

What can Britain do for us? Thats the topic the no campaigners aren't having with the Scottish public. Salmond has taken the positive approach of what he can do for Scotland and what Scotland can do for itself. Where is the positive message from his rivals???

Oh I forgot. The rest of Britain is so afraid to be Britain, so afraid to promote itself and so afraid to live up to its potential. Dear God someone might call us racist if we put our national interest first!!!

[stevewinn]

.

If everything will be more or less the same.....that is..if you are correct about that Harry Dresden....

why bother to cause all this disruption and bad feeling...?

.

Its a good question, But that's the problem with the SNP and the YES vote, they expect everything to remain the same. they are hedging their bets that if they vote for independence that nothing will change, there will be no visible sign anything has changed life will continue in the same manner as it did when part of the Union. They are in for a massive wake up call. and when they start feeling the implications of their vote they'll no doubt blame the UK for all the problems they encounter. and within 5 years they'll soon find Salmond and the SNP's Jam tomorrow never materialised. they'll then limp along with higher taxes and spending cuts and when they look around they'll find they've go from the land of the giants to the land of the pygmies. The Scottish people wont put up with that for long. and they most probably swap Union with the UK for Union with the European Union end up using the Euro. So did the SNP really want Independence or just give the English a shoeing.

[Guest]

Its a good question, But that's the problem with the SNP and the YES vote, they expect everything to remain the same. they are hedging their bets that if they vote for independence that nothing will change, there will be no visible sign anything has changed life will continue in the same manner as it did when part of the Union. They are in for a massive wake up call. and when they start feeling the implications of their vote they'll no doubt blame the UK for all the problems they encounter. and within 5 years they'll soon find Salmond and the SNP's Jam tomorrow never materialised. they'll then limp along with higher taxes and spending cuts and when they look around they'll find they've go from the land of the giants to the land of the pygmies. The Scottish people wont put up with that for long. and they most probably swap Union with the UK for Union with the European Union end up using the Euro. So did the SNP really want Independence or just give the English a shoeing.

Again this is rather hysterical. At worst the independant Scotland will be no worse off and probably better off per capita. I see no great day of reckoning on the horizon. north sea oil will ensure this in the short term and then it is up to the Scots how they manage their economy, if they blow it they will have no one but themselves to blame and is certainly a possibility - but one for the future and beyond our ability to crystal ball gaze.

Br Cornelius

[danielost]

i don't have a bird in this ight. but let me see if i have this straight scotland is voting to replace a queen with a king. the man who is leading this is the one who wants to be that king. i assume he thinks he has some claim to that throne that got removed when england removed said king.

sounds to me like your voting to put a dictato or want a be dictator into office. the queen of england is mostly aa figure head. the prime minmster does all the heavy work.

[Guest]

i don't have a bird in this ight. but let me see if i have this straight scotland is voting to replace a queen with a king. the man who is leading this is the one who wants to be that king. i assume he thinks he has some claim to that throne that got removed when england removed said king.

sounds to me like your voting to put a dictato or want a be dictator into office. the queen of england is mostly aa figure head. the prime minmster does all the heavy work.

No. The queen stays the scottish head of state either way.

The Prime Minister would be elected.

Your point is ?

Br Cornelius

[stevewinn]

Again this is rather hysterical. At worst the independant Scotland will be no worse off and probably better off per capita. I see no great day of reckoning on the horizon. north sea oil will ensure this in the short term and then it is up to the Scots how they manage their economy, if they blow it they will have no one but themselves to blame and is certainly a possibility - but one for the future and beyond our ability to crystal ball gaze.

Br Cornelius

There is no Hysterics in my post whatsoever. seeing how you brought up the issue of better off per capita, i'll reply to that notion. Im just highlighting the facts as they are, not making them up. The other day, Mark Carney governor of the Bank of England, was questioned by the House of Commons select committee, by the Treasury about the SNP's policy of using the pound sterling outside of a currency Union.

The revelation was shocking, and what's worse it wasn't even contemplated by the SNP at all. for SNP to use the Pound sterling in-line with the SNP policy outside a currency union; an Independent Scotland would need to raise its financial currency reserve fund. to achieve this it would have to tax each individual citizen per head £18,000. pounds.That's 95Billion. the SNP, would need as a minimum, a MINIMUM of 25% of its GDP in order to use the pound sterling.

THIS IS THE CLANGER: bear in mind Alex Salmonds background as an economist and policy planner leading the SNP for Independence.

In a BBC interview, Mr Salmond, a former RBS economist conceded that he had not factored in the tens of billions of pounds of sterling reserves Mr Carney said he would require using the pound without a formal currency union.

If your going to be Hysterical that's worth getting Hysterical about. The SNP's spending figures don't add up. of all the things they promised they'd have to borrow from day one. where are they borrowing the money from? they'll already start with a deficit (their share of the UK national debt) and still have to borrow on top of that. and that's before we factor in the raising of money for the reserve fund. Scotland last year alone spent 12Billion more that it raised through revenue (including oil) How are the SNP going to assure and stand behind its large financial sector. Example, the UK government backed the Royal Bank of Scotland to the tune of £320Billion pounds (bank bailout) If Scotland would have been independent at the time, SNP-Scotland would have been unable to save the Bank and rendered the country bankrupt.

So that notion of an Independent Scotland would be better off Per Capita soon disappears under the proof of Facts when you take the whole economy into consideration. The SNP go on about saving the NHS, since the SNP's white paper the running of the NHS in Scotland as already increased by £10billion.

It would be comical if it wasn't such serious business at hand. the people i feel for are the NO voters, we could see 49% of the voters going through a world of pain, thanks to the other 51%. because spending cuts and higher taxes are the order of the day. mortgage rates will go up, everyone says it except the SNP. i hope im proved wrong because that means the NO vote won.

[keithisco]

Again this is rather hysterical. At worst the independant Scotland will be no worse off and probably better off per capita. I see no great day of reckoning on the horizon. north sea oil will ensure this in the short term and then it is up to the Scots how they manage their economy, if they blow it they will have no one but themselves to blame and is certainly a possibility - but one for the future and beyond our ability to crystal ball gaze.

Br Cornelius

What you are missing in this debate is that the Shetland Islands and the Orkney Islands are solidly against Independence. They will be holding their own referendum in the unlikely event of a YES vote being returned. Scotland will have no oil .

An Independent Scotland WILL have to join the queue for EU Membership - no doubt about that - Scotland will have absolutely NO control over currency (The UK has NEVER entered into a Currency Union with Independent States) - Scotland has ALWAYS received more Government Handouts than it has contributed to.

Salmond is your typical "King in Waiting" - that an Ego as big as his MAY determine the outcome is just baffling.

If they vote YES then my knee - jerk reaction is to let them get on with it - without the support of the rest of the UK. If Scotland reneges on its debt then immediately they become a Pariah.

If they don't want the support given to them through the Type 26 Destroyers to be built in Scotland - that is their problem - construction will move to Portsmouth.

The same with the Nuclear Submarine facilities currently in Scotland - they move South with the 10,000 jobs they support.

No-One is being told the truth by Salmond.... he just wants to be seen as the new "Braveheart" the new William Wallace - would YOU follow this man into battle?

[Shayde]

I'll avoid trying quotes, as it'll take a fair bit of time to get them in order! But to answer some of the above posts:

We will keep the Queen as head of state. This is two fold, as it maintains a need for some stability, and it also means that Wee Eck gets his gong when he retires. No monarch, nae flamin' chance of him becoming a sir or lord!

The SNP figures. Oh yeah, they do not match up, they never did match, they sodding well won't at all add up! And when this is raised in debates with the Yes camp, they are ignored, fluffed over and just plain shows that the rear of a fag packet really ought not to be used for compiling a budget.

The whole nuclear thing, both for power producing and the submarines fleet based on the west coast. Yes, I get it. It's all horrible, we shouldn't need it, we could do without it. Except.... for the love of the wee man, what a narrow, blinkered view. If we keep Faslane, and we went independent, think of how much we could charge not only the Royal Navy but also other naval fleets for using the bloody place. Of course, that's a daft idea itself, but it again shows that all the bloody SNP can do is come out with stupid ideas that are never thought fully through.

Just watched the last bit of another debate on the BBC, with three political types, and one actress. I get the political types, but since when is an actress who's only there really to be a famous face for the yes lot any good? It's like the past few days, Yes camp turns up to meet the public with a celebrity in tow. Sounds mad, but what we, the voters need more, is not a bloody actor, singer or some dingbat, but answers to the questions that BOTH sides are busy in avoiding answering.

Okay.... Rant over. We now return to normal service!

Edited September 14, 2014 by Shayde

[Guest]

Jim Sillars answers a few questions:

[media=]

[/media]

To paraphrase - businesses will not walk away from profit and Scotland is rated to be the 14th richest country in the world - ahead of the UK.

Also to refuse a currency union with the remaining UK will hurt the UK more than Scotland, because Scotland is a net exporter of goods to the UK which means a flow of cash out of the UK in the long run.

EU is going to refuse entry to one of its largest domestic suppliers of oil - utter rubbish.

Lots of rubbish been spoken by the merchants of fear.

Br Cornelius

Edited September 15, 2014 by Guest

[Duke Wellington]

Jim Sillars answers a few questions:

[media=]

[/media]

To paraphrase - businesses will not walk away from profit and Scotland is rated to be the 14th richest country in the world - ahead of the UK.

Also to refuse a currency union with the remaining UK will hurt the UK more than Scotland, because Scotland is a net exporter of goods to the UK which means a flow of cash out of the UK in the long run.

EU is going to refuse entry to one of its largest domestic suppliers of oil - utter rubbish.

Lots of rubbish been spoken by the merchants of fear.

Br Cornelius

Scotland will be in competition with the UK if it declares its independance. If they want to keep use sterling then I'm sure we can make money off the Scots for doing so to their detriment. Then there's the brain drain as Scots leave for London which is the regions biggest and most lucrative financial centre. Then there's companies relocating to the remaining UK as there's more UK customers compared to Scottish ones.

Spain, France and Belgium will veto Scotlands application to join the Euro. This is because if they don't they know the Basques, Lorraine and the Wallons will all be calling for their own independance. That means any business attempting to trade across Scottish borders will be charged import/export taxes making goods more expensive.

Unions function as a bubble to help national economies growth and when Scotland leaves ours there will be a recession. Finally why are many Scots wanting to leave the UK but intend joining the Euro. How is that independance? Given the choice wouldn't they prefer a union with the UK?

Oh and across the Atlantic theres been debates in the media about the USA filling Scotlands shoes by attempting some kind of reunification with England (although the Queen would only remain our monarch). I personally think the remaining UK will win if Scotland leaves so perhaps we should kick them out whatever the vote???

[Space Commander Travis]

Oh and across the Atlantic theres been debates in the media about the USA filling Scotlands shoes by attempting some kind of reunification with England (although the Queen would only remain our monarch). I personally think the remaining UK will win if Scotland leaves so perhaps we should kick them out whatever the vote???

Would that mean we'd get Mr. President? I'm not sure whether that'd be a good deal.

And John Kerry?!

[danielost]

Scotland will be in competition with the UK if it declares its independance. If they want to keep use sterling then I'm sure we can make money off the Scots for doing so to their detriment. Then there's the brain drain as Scots leave for London which is the regions biggest and most lucrative financial centre. Then there's companies relocating to the remaining UK as there's more UK customers compared to Scottish ones.

Spain, France and Belgium will veto Scotlands application to join the Euro. This is because if they don't they know the Basques, Lorraine and the Wallons will all be calling for their own independance. That means any business attempting to trade across Scottish borders will be charged import/export taxes making goods more expensive.

Unions function as a bubble to help national economies growth and when Scotland leaves ours there will be a recession. Finally why are many Scots wanting to leave the UK but intend joining the Euro. How is that independance? Given the choice wouldn't they prefer a union with the UK?

Oh and across the Atlantic theres been debates in the media about the USA filling Scotlands shoes by attempting some kind of reunification with England (although the Queen would only remain our monarch). I personally think the remaining UK will win if Scotland leaves so perhaps we should kick them out whatever the vote???

the usa is not going to become part of england or the english empire.