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Pound falls as Yes vote strengths.


Guest Br Cornelius

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The Thatcher revolution, when an entirely invented boom was engineered out of thin air to give a completely fake impression of prosperity, which (again this point) almost entirely benefitted the City, while the rest of the country was more or less told that it could all go to hell for all the Government cared?

I note that you're 27 years old, so you were 3 years old when Thatcher resigned. Where did you learn about Thatcher from.....the Guardian. I'm 53 & lived through all those years & observed. As somebody has already stated, the worst of years for this country have always been during Labour rule. You're too young to remember a time when there were so many strikes that bodies were piling up because nobody would bury them because of strikes. Or when the streets were full of waste & rubbish because the bin men were on strike, or when the Layland car 'workers' went on strike because a cat got loose in the factory (i kid you not). I also remember a Labour government invading two foreign national countries on the basis of a falsified document resulting in the deaths of hundred of thousands of innocent civilians (including one David Kelly....look him up). Thatcher sent a fleet to liberate the Falklands & did it supremely, decisively & finally (my brother served).

Why Tony Blair & half the last Labour government have not been tried before the International court of justice in the Hague is a complete & utter mystery.

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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All Scotland lost was becoming a British Dependency while trading their membership in the United Kingdom for the illusion of independence. The only ones who really lost anything were the army of politicians, diplomats and bureaucrats Scotland would have had to foot the bill for. Not to mention the cost of embassies abroad and other myriad functions they would have had to replace as an independent state.

Edited by John Wesley Boyd
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I noticed the Highlands came in with a strong no vote. If ever there were an independence-minded group it has to be them. I suspect they prefer London to Edinburgh -- further away.

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I note that you're 27 years old, so you were 3 years old when Thatcher resigned. Where did you learn about Thatcher from.....the Guardian. I'm 53 & lived through all those years & observed. As somebody has already stated, the worst of years for this country have always been during Labour rule. You're too young to remember a time when there were so many strikes that bodies were piling up because nobody would bury them because of strikes. Or when the streets were full of waste & rubbish because the bin men were on strike, or when the Layland car 'workers' went on strike because a cat got loose in the factory (i kid you not). I also remember a Labour government invading two foreign national countries on the basis of a falsified document resulting in the deaths of hundred of thousands of innocent civilians (including one David Kelly....look him up). Thatcher sent a fleet to liberate the Falklands & did it supremely, decisively & finally (my brother served).

Why Tony Blair & half the last Labour government have not been tried before the International court of justice in the Hague is a complete & utter mystery.

What on earth gives you the impression that I admire Mr. Tony Blair and his gang? Like I said, I agree about the unions, but was destroying the whole industry- and not just the car industry, which could be catered for much better by far superior foreign manufacturers- but leaving energy supplies heavily dependent on imports, from countries that could easily use it as a weapon if they had a beef with us? Very foolish. If she had had a program of building up nuclear power as a replacement for coal, it might have shown some vision, but Greenpeace and that crowd put paid to that. Building up London as the powerhouse of the economy and frankly ignoring everywhere else was really putting all the eggs in one basket, particularly when that powerhouse was built on extremely shaky grounds in the first place. On the whole, very foolish, I'm afraid, :(
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I noticed the Highlands came in with a strong no vote. If ever there were an independence-minded group it has to be them. I suspect they prefer London to Edinburgh -- further away.

There's always been a traditional divide between the Highlands and the Lowlands and the east coast; it's rather like an inversion of 1745, when the Highlands were the Jacobites' heartland and the Lowlands were loyal to London. Interesting that it's the other way round now, but it's probably because the Independence movement was heavily based in the Lowlands.
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Thatcher is right up there with Churchill in the ranks. The Prime Ministers that have come from the left are nowhere near them. People do make history up as it goes to suit their agenda, and this is too bad. They thereby miss what is really going on.

You could only say that if you didn't live through the Thatcher years. She was eventually deposed by her own party for been to extreme and partisan. She guaranteed that Labour won three general elections after her. She was the most despised PM in the last 100years among at least half of the British population and she remains so to this day among those people who saw their lives blighted by her structural reforms. She achieved nothing compared to Churchill and to mention her in the same breath as Churchill shows a deep lack of understanding of British history.

Great Leaders, as you would claim Thatcher was, are often tyrannical and uncaring, partisan and vicious. The world has had a few to many "great leaders" in the Thatcher mould. A really great leader is one who draws a country together to achieve a great objective and that is why Churchill is considered the greatest leader of Britain over the last 200years - Thatcher was the opposite of a great leader.

Br Cornelius

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The crunch is coming after the next election if Davey boy gets back in, he promised a referndum on escape from Europe. how is he going to wriggle out of that,and will the Scots, Irish and Welsh want to do the same. I'm looking forward to the chaos.

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I noticed the Highlands came in with a strong no vote. If ever there were an independence-minded group it has to be them. I suspect they prefer London to Edinburgh -- further away.

passionate highlander from Question time before the Referendum. Bit cringe worthy but, i think passion anger and nerves got the better of him.

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You could only say that if you didn't live through the Thatcher years. She was eventually deposed by her own party for been to extreme and partisan. She guaranteed that Labour won three general elections after her. She was the most despised PM in the last 100years among at least half of the British population and she remains so to this day among those people who saw their lives blighted by her structural reforms. She achieved nothing compared to Churchill and to mention her in the same breath as Churchill shows a deep lack of understanding of British history.

Great Leaders, as you would claim Thatcher was, are often tyrannical and uncaring, partisan and vicious. The world has had a few to many "great leaders" in the Thatcher mould. A really great leader is one who draws a country together to achieve a great objective and that is why Churchill is considered the greatest leader of Britain over the last 200years - Thatcher was the opposite of a great leader.

Br Cornelius

And yet Mrs Thatcher was given Ceremonial funeral How many past Prime Minister Got that Privilege.

Mrs Thatcher; Daughter of a Greengrocer, climbed the ladder all the way to the top, in a male dominated arena of Politics became the First British Woman Prime Minister, done what was needed to turn a country around. politicians get abuse for not taking the tough action needed, they all like to promise people there is Jam tomorrow, and kick the big issues down the road for the next government to deal with, a tactic used by the Labour party time and time again.

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And yet Mrs Thatcher was given Ceremonial funeral How many past Prime Minister Got that Privilege.

Mrs Thatcher; Daughter of a Greengrocer, climbed the ladder all the way to the top, in a male dominated arena of Politics became the First British Woman Prime Minister, done what was needed to turn a country around. politicians get abuse for not taking the tough action needed, they all like to promise people there is Jam tomorrow, and kick the big issues down the road for the next government to deal with, a tactic used by the Labour party time and time again.

By a Tory Government. Did you not notice how it was specifically not called a state funeral because that would have been to controversial.

You may not personally agree with my opinion of M Thatcher (an opinion I share with about 50% of the British population), but I do not think you would be foolish enough to deny the actual facts of what I said about the national feeling towards her. You are entitled to your opinion of her and I am entitled to mine - do not even attempt for one second to suggest that your opinion is in some way more representative of the British mood.

Let me just remind you Steve - that all the policies regarding labour relations which Thatcher eventually introduced were policies of the labour Government that came before her. They were hamstrung by the block vote and by a weak majority - not by a lack of vision for the country.

Br Cornelius

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When Thatcher was deposed it was not because of her politics so much as because she was dropping in the polls, and that meant the backbenchers were in danger.

This happens to all politicians in political systems -- the public is fickle and gets tired of a face and what was once fresh and new becomes boring and irritating. Voters are like that -- they rarely vote sensibly.Close


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When Thatcher was deposed it was not because of her politics so much as because she was dropping in the polls, and that meant the backbenchers were in danger.

This happens to all politicians in political systems -- the public is fickle and gets tired of a face and what was once fresh and new becomes boring and irritating. Voters are like that -- they rarely vote sensibly.Close

Look to you history - she destroyed the Government by insisting on introducing the flat rate poll tax in the face of party opposition. that was why she was so unpopular and falling in the polls. there were national riots taking place on the run up to her sacking. Lets not forget her real legacy.

Unfortunately Frank you are way out of your depth on this one. Its rather like Regan in America, she was never very popular when she was actually in power (barely winning her second election) and she has only been lionized after the fact with the application of a large measure of strategic amnesia.

Br Cornelius

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A very partisan analysis of Maggies legacy, but I think you will find that all of the facts are sound even if you disagree with the conclusions;

It is a truism that history is written by the victors. As Margaret Thatcher's economic policies were continued after she left office, culminating in economic catastrophe in 2008, it is necessary to throw out the myths peddled about her. The first is that she was popular. The second is that she delivered economic success.

Unlike previous governments, Thatcher's never commanded anything close to a majority in a general election. The Tories' biggest share of the vote under her was less than 44% in 1979, after which her vote fell. The false assertions about her popularity are used to insist that Labour can only succeed by carrying out Tory policies. But this is untrue.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/apr/11/throw-out-myths-margaret-thatcher

Br Cornelius

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By a Tory Government. Did you not notice how it was specifically not called a state funeral because that would have been to controversial.

You may not personally agree with my opinion of M Thatcher (an opinion I share with about 50% of the British population), but I do not think you would be foolish enough to deny the actual facts of what I said about the national feeling towards her. You are entitled to your opinion of her and I am entitled to mine - do not even attempt for one second to suggest that your opinion is in some way more representative of the British mood.

Let me just remind you Steve - that all the policies regarding labour relations which Thatcher eventually introduced were policies of the labour Government that came before her. They were hamstrung by the block vote and by a weak majority - not by a lack of vision for the country.

Br Cornelius

There are reasons why Thatcher wasn't given a state funeral. and it wasn't because she was unpopular in parts of the country, a look at the list of State Funerals in the UK show they are for Monarchs, the only exception in our lifetime was for our war time leader Winston S. Churchill. before him. Sir Issac Newton 1700's Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson 1805. Duke of Wellington Arthur wellesley. (field Marshall) 1830. outside of these three men. no others have had a State Funeral.

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Remember the cues of people who lined the streets with their backs to the procession Steve. That would have looked awfully bad for a state funeral. They tried to get a State funeral for her (following on from their own inflated rhetoric of her achievements) but they failed.

Br Cornelius

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