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Pound falls as Yes vote strengths.


Guest Br Cornelius
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No idea. Haven't followed any of the detail of any other issues surrounding the yes/no campaign. I only followed to oil question because I worked for Brandt Environmental for a number of yrs, and this question was discussed numerous times. It was only 2 yrs ago that Westminster agreed a 3billion new field allowance for deep fields to open up, west of Shetland. I haven't heard anything from the SNP to say they'll foot that bill - but i'm guessing they will.

I don't understand the logic of leaving the UK to have to join the EU. Wouldn't you prefer the union with the rest of Britain instead of Europeans?

How does defence work if we live on a divided island?

Wont we both need land forces guarding the border just incase?

Wont Scotland have to raise an army, airforce and navy?

What happens in a future conflict if one side supports and aggressor and one doesnt? Forces will be landed on our island on the pro side.

Will Scots have to start paying for their education?

Will we start fighting each other if at some future point we have a falling out?

What happens when many businesses relocate their head offices to London? Corporate tax then goes to the UK not Scotland.

If we split then there will need to be a duplication of Government Departments, civil service, etc. That will increase Scotlands running costs while lowering them for the remaining UK (less work to do).

Edited by RabidMongoose
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I don't understand the logic of leaving the UK to have to join the EU. Wouldn't you prefer the union with the rest of Britain instead of Europeans?

How does defence work if we live on a divided island?

Wont we both need land forces guarding the border just incase?

Wont Scotland have to raise an army, airforce and navy?

What happens in a future conflict if one side supports and aggressor and one doesnt? Forces will be landed on our island on the pro side.

Will Scots have to start paying for their education?

Will we start fighting each other if at some future point we have a falling out?

What happens when many businesses relocate their head offices to London? Corporate tax then goes to the UK not Scotland.

If we split then there will need to be a duplication of Government Departments, civil service, etc. That will increase Scotlands running costs while lowering them for the remaining UK (less work to do).

You're asking the wrong man i'm afraid, I worked in Aberdeen for just under 4 yrs, and lived in a beautiful little village called Muchalls which is on the cliff tops over-looking the North Sea, about 8 miles south of Aberdeen. I'm not Scottish though, i'm born and breed in Kent. I haven't followed any of the debate on independence beyond the oil question, so I can't answer those questions.

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I don't understand the logic of leaving the UK to have to join the EU. Wouldn't you prefer the union with the rest of Britain instead of Europeans?

How does defence work if we live on a divided island?

Wont we both need land forces guarding the border just incase?

Wont Scotland have to raise an army, airforce and navy?

What happens in a future conflict if one side supports and aggressor and one doesnt? Forces will be landed on our island on the pro side.

Will Scots have to start paying for their education?

Will we start fighting each other if at some future point we have a falling out?

What happens when many businesses relocate their head offices to London? Corporate tax then goes to the UK not Scotland.

If we split then there will need to be a duplication of Government Departments, civil service, etc. That will increase Scotlands running costs while lowering them for the remaining UK (less work to do).

Alex S. seems to assume that he can just take whatever might be on his side of the border (whatever ships, aircraft, military forces etc) on the blessed day of freedom and call them Scottish from now on. Or perhaps he'll simply appropriate the Royal Regiment of Scotland., and perhaps reconstitute other famous Scottish regiments, like the Royal Scots Greys. Not many would pick a fight with him then, that's for sure.
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Perhaps the Queen should step in and tell them not to desert her...... :)

If they leave I suppose that means they won't have a Queen any more..? *

Or William and Kate and little George...(Charles doesn't count, lol)

I expect getting rid of the Royal Family might appeal to a lot of Scots..

but also might anger and sadden a lot of them as well...

I haven't followed the details of the for and against arguments because I presumed, kind of, that they

wouldn't, at the end of the day, break up the United Kingdom. But now it looks a bit too

close for comfort...

On the subject of the ecomomy...a yes win could mean Scotland's economy gets into difficulty..?

I have no in depth knowledge of the Irish ecomomy...but I get the impression that when they had

the Euro...prices went up a lot and everyone felt worse off...?

* maybe not...I suppose they would be like Canada and Australia..?

.

Edited by bee
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And the opinion of a Nobel prize winning economist :

http://www.nytimes.c...pan-region&_r=1

mmmm...from the link

In short, everything that has happened in Europe since 2009 or so has demonstrated that sharing a currency without sharing a government is very dangerous. In economics jargon, fiscal and banking integration are essential elements of an optimum currency area. And an independent Scotland using Britain’s pound would be in even worse shape than euro countries, which at least have some say in how the European Central Bank is run.

I find it mind-boggling that Scotland would consider going down this path after all that has happened in the last few years. If Scottish voters really believe that it’s safe to become a country without a currency, they have been badly misled.

Articles like this make me think that the 'no' vote will just about prevail....

.

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I believe the conspitutional position is that HM would still be Queen of Scotland as well as England, as they were between 1603 & 1707.

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Perhaps the Queen should step in and tell them not to desert her...... :)

If they leave I suppose that means they won't have a Queen any more..?

Or William and Kate and little George...(Charles doesn't count, lol)

I expect getting rid of the Royal Family might appeal to a lot of Scots..

but also might anger and sadden a lot of them as well...

I haven't followed the details of the for and against arguments because I presumed, kind of, that they

wouldn't, at the end of the day, break up the United Kingdom. But now it looks a bit too

close for comfort...

On the subject of the ecomomy...a yes win could mean Scotland's economy gets into difficulty..?

I have no in depth knowledge of the Irish ecomomy...but I get the impression that when they had

the Euro...prices went up a lot and everyone felt worse off...?

.

Oh, it all went marvellously for Ireland at first, the economy was booming so much they didn't know what to do with all the money they had, until the Euro went bust and the EU insisted that all the small countries on the periphery carry out all the austerity measures that they insisted on in order to prop up the Euroe. But I'm sure Alex knows what he's doing.

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I believe the conspitutional position is that HM would still be Queen of Scotland as well as England, as they were between 1603 & 1707.

Oh...ok... :tu:

.

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At least, until Alex decides to make it a socialist republic, of course.

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So by that rational, it's safe to say that the British pound is also part of Scotland, whether independent or not?

Does it not concern you at all that Alex Salmond back in 1999 called the Pound Sterling the millstone around the neck of Scotland. in other words in the SNP's opinion the Pound Sterling was damaging to Scotland and the future of a independent Scotland and the currency of choice for Scotland was the Euro. according to the SNP leader/ Party.

Now fast forward 15 years. The EU stated the Scots wont be fast tracked for EU membership and with that the Euro currency. With the SNP's policy torpedoed sinking the SNP's policy - Salmond with nowhere to go all off a sudden does an about turn and now has the policy of keeping the Pound Sterling as the currency of a Independent Scotland and pedals the mantra of the British pound is as much as Scotland's as the rest of the UK.

On the Issue of Oil Fields. Scotland's territorial waters are 12nm's off the Coast - but the Economic zone for oil/gas and Fishing grounds extend to 200nm's off the coast. Salmond could come unstuck if Scotland Vote YES, but in the wake of the vote the Shetland Islands decide to remain part of the United Kingdom. it would render the SNP's spending policy unaffordable. Last Year Scotland Spent £12 Billion more than it raised in Taxes, (including North Sea revenue) to put things in perspective If Scotland would have voted for Independence in 2008 and gained independence in 2010. one year after independence in 2011 Scotland as a Nation would have become bankrupt. when the Royal Bank of Scotland needed bailing out to the tune of £320Billion pounds.

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Oh, it all went marvellously for Ireland at first, the economy was booming so much they didn't know what to do with all the money they had, until the Euro went bust and the EU insisted that all the small countries on the periphery carry out all the austerity measures that they insisted on in order to prop up the Euroe. But I'm sure Alex knows what he's doing.

Not a fair characterization of Ireland's position at all.

What happened is that the Government saw a property bubble developing based on cheap interest rates which they no longer could control.

Instead of taking other measures to damp the property bubble they did the exact opposite by creating development zones with reduced taxes on speculative property development. This was the fuel thrown on an already hot fire. The stupid people simply played along with the scenario imagining they had suddenly become rich because property prices were sky rocketing and they could borrow against that nominal rise.

It was the Irish stupid that did it !!!!!

Never forget that when allocating blame for the disaster we the Irish landed ourselves in. The only question is - should the Irish be made to suffer for their own stupidity or should the ECB step in to write off the debt. Moral hazard is the real issue here.

Br Cornelius

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.

Perhaps the Queen should step in and tell them not to desert her...... :)

If they leave I suppose that means they won't have a Queen any more..? *

Or William and Kate and little George...(Charles doesn't count, lol)

I expect getting rid of the Royal Family might appeal to a lot of Scots..

but also might anger and sadden a lot of them as well...

I haven't followed the details of the for and against arguments because I presumed, kind of, that they

wouldn't, at the end of the day, break up the United Kingdom. But now it looks a bit too

close for comfort...

On the subject of the ecomomy...a yes win could mean Scotland's economy gets into difficulty..?

I have no in depth knowledge of the Irish ecomomy...but I get the impression that when they had

the Euro...prices went up a lot and everyone felt worse off...?

* maybe not...I suppose they would be like Canada and Australia..?

.

.

the queen would still be queen of an independant Scotland Bee.

.

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On the Issue of Oil Fields. Scotland's territorial waters are 12nm's off the Coast - but the Economic zone for oil/gas and Fishing grounds extend to 200nm's off the coast.

I can't see that being an issue, in effect they'll be a new nation, so the international principal of equidistance can be used, it's covered under the UN, and deals with defining maritime assets of newly formed states. So Scotland should get a pretty equal share, if not slightly in their favour.

Salmond could come unstuck if Scotland Vote YES, but in the wake of the vote the Shetland Islands decide to remain part of the United Kingdom. it would render the SNP's spending policy unaffordable.

Neither side should be making any spending claims relating to deep sea drilling - the 3 billion tempter from the treasury was to get explorers interested in trying to make the deep sea drilling viable. It is extremely dangerous, not only is the sea deep, but the wells will have to be very deep....they take months to drill, and each one costs anything around 100million....extreme pressures and temperatures make it very tricky. Any environmental damage to that area will be massive financially as it's a big tourist area. Also, they will still have to abide by the terms of the licensing which means they will have to work in conjunction with Brandt to clean up all sludge brought to the surface when drilling at such depths.

The only gaurantee at the moment is that if an independent Scotland wants to try the deep sea drilling in yrs to come, then Salmond will have to continue the investments now that were put forward by Westminster in 2012 in order to keep the process of finding ways to do it on the front foot, because the second the UK loses Shetland, to money disappears too.

Edited by The Sky Scanner
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the queen would still be queen of an independant Scotland Bee.

.

ok...

lol..I was just trying to look up stuff about this and on this link the writing faded out at the crucial moment...

don't know if it's the same for everyone... (3rd paragraph)

I think Alex must have tried to rub it out... :)

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4179376.ece

(but I suppose this is getting off topic now....so sorry to br Cornelius)

.

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yes, the Times do that, they try to coerce you into taking out a subscription.

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This is the real reason why the YES vote is so strong, basically they hate Westminster and all that it represents. It seems they are prepared to do anything to get off the trajectory that the Thatcher Government set them on - and Blair cemented.

http://www.theguardi...ories?CMP=fb_gu

A Government who's main focus is on whats good for the City and the South East of England will ultimately break up the disenfranchised Union because everyone knows that the London Mile is a liability for the real economy on which most of us depend for our survival.

Br Cornelius

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This is the real reason why the YES vote is so strong, basically they hate Westminster and all that it represents. It seems they are prepared to do anything to get off the trajectory that the Thatcher Government set them on - and Blair cemented.

http://www.theguardi...ories?CMP=fb_gu

A Government who's main focus is on whats good for the City and the South East of England will ultimately break up the disenfranchised Union because everyone knows that the London Mile is a liability for the real economy on which most of us depend for our survival.

Br Cornelius

Lets be fair who does like Westminster and Politicians? we all think they are a shower of ****. and would replace them tomorrow. - but then comes the question with whom. Its a great idea until you start looking around. but then its human nature to believe you can do things better yourself.

If the Scottish referendum is about Westminster and thinkiing the SNP would serve them any better they are in for a shock. going by the 2011 election results - It seems for 45% of Scottish voters its the SNP, but how many of these are protest votes and its still telling that 55% of Scots didnt vote for the SNP. but Westminster parties, for that reason i think the vote in the referendum will see the NO side win 57% to 43% YES.

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Lets be fair who does like Westminster and Politicians? we all think they are a shower of ****. and would replace them tomorrow. - but then comes the question with whom. Its a great idea until you start looking around. but then its human nature to believe you can do things better yourself.

If the Scottish referendum is about Westminster and thinkiing the SNP would serve them any better they are in for a shock. going by the 2011 election results - It seems for 45% of Scottish voters its the SNP, but how many of these are protest votes and its still telling that 55% of Scots didnt vote for the SNP. but Westminster parties, for that reason i think the vote in the referendum will see the NO side win 57% to 43% YES.

There will be a Scottish Labour party and the SNP initially, then there will be others. It really is a loathing of Westminster and the City of London driving this forward. A wish to be free of the neglect been visited upon a whole nation. A wish never to be ruled by Tory Spivs ever again. I suspect they will give it a try feeling they have little to lose and much to gain.

Then within about the next 20years Sinn Feinn will take N.Ireland out of the Union as well.

There are consequences of treating people as colonies, you should watch how English people talk about the UK and how many times they default to calling the UK "England" - this doesn't go unnoticed in Scotland/Wales and N.Ireland. There is one heap of hatred towards the colonists which goes beyond the rational at this stage.

Br Cornelius

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There will be a Scottish Labour party and the SNP initially, then there will be others. It really is a loathing of Westminster and the City of London driving this forward. A wish to be free of the neglect been visited upon a whole nation. A wish never to be ruled by Tory Spivs ever again. I suspect they will give it a try feeling they have little to lose and much to gain.

Or....a lot to lose and nothing to gain....

Then within about the next 20years Sinn Feinn will take N.Ireland out of the Union as well.

Where did you get your crystal ball from... :)....and can you lend it to Alex Salmond, please.

There are consequences of treating people as colonies, you should watch how English people talk about the UK and how many times they default to calling the UK "England" - this doesn't go unnoticed in Scotland/Wales and N.Ireland. There is one heap of hatred towards the colonists which goes beyond the rational at this stage.

I'm sorry...but the above paragraph is so infected with generalisation and sweeping statements...(and personal bias)

that it is rendered meaningless.... :hmm:

.

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Maybe you should get out a bit more Bee and see it from the other side of the border, you might be surprised at how your neigbours view the English. It aint complementary let me assure you.

By the way, I'm English so it not biased to point out that we, the English, aren't overly popular in the rest of the union. only arrogance would make you unaware of this little fact.

Br Cornelius

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Maybe you should get out a bit more Bee and see it from the other side of the border, you might be surprised at how your neigbours view the English. It aint complementary let me assure you.

:rolleyes:

I am aware of some bad feeling..of course I am...like there can be bad squabbles in close families...

I go to Wales a lot and they had a big struggle to keep their language and there was all the protests

about 2nd homes...some time ago..involving direct action and arson..

My family on my Mom's side are all Welsh...

And many Scottish people will support any football team that England play...rather than the English team... :D

By the way, I'm English so it not biased to point out that we, the English, aren't overly popular in the rest of the union. only arrogance would make you unaware of this little fact.

'only arrogance' etc... :) ...another sweeping statement. (but I get that you are having a dig at me..)

.

Edited by bee
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:rolleyes:

I am aware of some bad feeling..of course I am...like there can be bad squabbles in close families...

I go to Wales a lot and they had a big struggle to keep their language and there was all the protests

about 2nd homes...some time ago..involving direct action and arson..

My family on my Mom's side are all Welsh...

And many Scottish people will support any football team that England play...rather than the English team... :D

'only arrogance' etc... :) ...another sweeping statement. (but I get that you are having a dig at me..)

.

I was expecting a fair bit of hostility towards me when moving there...what with being English and coming from the South East, it didn't happen though - lovely people, really made me feel welcome. Even the village I moved too was small and close nit, the same people living there for generations and all that...so I wasn't expecting to be made to feel welcome, I got that wrong too - the third night after I moved in half a dozen of the locals in that road knocked my door with a glass of vodka, invited them in, introduced them to Mrs Scanner etc....they are still friends to this day. I drank in Aberdeen regularly too, again no problems at all.

The Scottish are great people, not the stereo type some like to portray......but then what would I know, I probably need to get out more ;)

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@ Sky Scanner......cheers for that... :tu:...I have always found the Welsh and Scottish to be very friendly...

I had a romance/relationship for around 3 years with someone from Glasgow many years ago...

their family and everyone I met was very generous and friendly....

I don't really know anyone from Northern Ireland well, but I fully expect them to be very friendly as well...

I have just been down the shops and seen the newspapers for the first time today...

And the front pages are mostly all about the Queen and Scottish Independence and how she

doesn't want it etc etc.....

.

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