US Marine Kills Wounded Prisoner

[Art Vandelay]

u think the killing of innocent iraqis is a beautiful thing

or is it that u simply dont care?

365862[/snapback]

What can I say? It sucks, but it is a "war" and people need to pull their heads out of the sand and see what's really happening. How many wars have you heard of where innocents weren't killed?

[wunarmdscissor]

but its teh wrong war???????????

my head isnt in the sand i know exactly whats going on .

Innocents are being slaughtered by a givt who have a hidden agenda in Iraq , an illegal war that had nothing to do with the war on terrorism and the american people are blindly backing a monkey to lead them into a quagmire.

[wunarmdscissor]

What can I say? It sucks, but it is a "war" and people need to pull their heads out of the sand and see what's really happening. How many wars have you heard of where innocents weren't killed?

how many innocents have been killed in wars that should never have been fought?

[Art Vandelay]

but its teh wrong war???????????

365872[/snapback]

Now what are you talking about? What 'wrong' car? *continues eating Pringles*

[wunarmdscissor]

car???

what u talkin about i said war read ur quote ????

im saying the war in Iraq is wrong , 9/11 had nought to do with Iraq and bush has a hidden agenda.

Im saying 100 000 dead iraqis is a war crime and that bush should be held accountable.

Im saying that not even saddam could acheive that in just a year.

Yet you STILL think we are liberators.

Face it osama is at large , america has a monkey at the helm and our coalition is an occupying force building a puppet state.

Reminisint of Vishi france.

[aquatus1]

Whether you invited the invaders or not, whether you are happy they are there or not, whether you feel you have the right to drive, to congregate, or to pursue happiness is fairly irrelevant.

The simple fact of the matter is that when large men with large guns are pointing them at you in a menacing fashion, you either stop and put your hands in the air in the universally accepted sign of surrender, or you continue on your way and risk getting shot. It works that way in war; it works that way in dark alleys. You want to feel violated? Go ahead. It won't change a thing. The soldiers will do what they can to stay alive, and telling them to risk getting killed unnecessarily goes counter to the purpose of training soldiers.

Liberation is indeed a beautiful thing. For every innocent civilian killed, a thousand more will celebrate without caring. It is harsh, but it is true. In a few generations, those dead will be emotionally remembered by their friends and politely acknowledge by the rest of the country, who, thanks to the liberation, no longer have to worry about the dying under the rule of a inhuman dictator. The price paid is in the past, and the future is what they will concentrate on.

[wunarmdscissor]

Liberation is indeed a beautiful thing. For every innocent civilian killed, a thousand more will celebrate without caring. It is harsh, but it is true. In a few generations, those dead will be emotionally remembered by their friends and politely acknowledge by the rest of the country, who, thanks to the liberation, no longer have to worry about the dying under the rule of a inhuman dictator. The price paid is in the past, and the future is what they will concentrate on.

At the rate we're going though we'll soon run out of people to liberate cos theyll all be dead.

Look at my posts im not condeming the soldier at all for what he did

[Art Vandelay]

car???

what u talkin about i said war read ur quote ????

im saying the war in Iraq is wrong , 9/11 had nought to do with Iraq and bush has a hidden agenda.

Im saying 100 000 dead iraqis is a war crime and that bush should be held accountable.

Im saying that not even saddam could acheive that in just a year.

Yet you STILL think we are liberators.

Face it osama is at large , america has a monkey at the helm and our coalition is an occupying force building a puppet state.

Reminisint of Vishi france.

365883[/snapback]

You got me, I read it wrong.

Where can you show me that 100,000 Iragi's died as a direct result from our fantastic President Bush and the "War on Terrorism"? You can't because it isn't true. Now if we were to do a search about Saddam and how many Iraqi's died under his regime it would turn out to be several hundred thousand, hell when he bombed the Kurds with the WMD's it took out thousands just right there.

Let's not ignore the countless innocents that his sons Uday and Qusay also murdered.

Edited November 21, 2004 by Art Vandelay

[wunarmdscissor]

ive already posted a link for teh 100 000 dead iraqis and ill post it again for u

What do u think happened during shock and awe? lol they all went into theyre non existent bomnb shelters, and that was on the first couple of days alone in the war.

Weve had a year to increase on that death toll

[Art Vandelay]

Whether you invited the invaders or not, whether you are happy they are there or not, whether you feel you have the right to drive, to congregate, or to pursue happiness is fairly irrelevant.

The simple fact of the matter is that when large men with large guns are pointing them at you in a menacing fashion, you either stop and put your hands in the air in the universally accepted sign of surrender, or you continue on your way and risk getting shot.  It works that way in war; it works that way in dark alleys.  You want to feel violated?  Go ahead.  It won't change a thing.  The soldiers will do what they can to stay alive, and telling them to risk getting killed unnecessarily goes counter to the purpose of training soldiers.

Liberation is indeed a beautiful thing.  For every innocent civilian killed, a thousand more will celebrate without caring.  It is harsh, but it is true.  In a few generations, those dead will be emotionally remembered by their friends and politely acknowledge by the rest of the country, who, thanks to the liberation, no longer have to worry about the dying under the rule of a inhuman dictator.  The price paid is in the past, and the future is what they will concentrate on.

365884[/snapback]

Well said Aquatus1, I've pretty much given up on writing elequont posts because some people refuse to see the real truth and it turns out to be a waste of my time....

[wunarmdscissor]

took me 2 secs to get that link

2 secs to find that

ANother wee link for u to scorn at

scorn at this as well if u will

and i could go on

Iraqi body count is recording the official death toll but responds to the lancets findings and does not refute them

what exactly is it that i wont open my eyes to vandelay???

Edit; combined consecutive posts.

Edited November 21, 2004 by Magikman

[Art Vandelay]

took me 2 secs to get that link

2 secs to find that

365900[/snapback]

I checked out that first link and I'm 'still' confused. You were talking about 100,000 people being dead but according to YOUR OWN LINK it says the maximum body count from the war on terror is 16604, which is a tragedy within itself but it's nothing compared to what your buddy Saddam and his sons did.

I still fail to see what you and Vims are frothing at the mouths about......

Edited November 21, 2004 by Art Vandelay

[wunarmdscissor]

did u read the full site?

i posted it so u could see the lancet's findings and the IBC's response

Look at the BBC link as well

Edit; consolidated consecutive posts. Wun, make use of the edit feature to add further thoughts instead of adding an entirely new post directly below your last response.

Edited November 21, 2004 by Magikman

[wunarmdscissor]

checked out that first link and I'm 'still' confused. You were talking about 100,000 people being dead but according to YOUR OWN LINK it says the maximum body count from the war on terror is 16604, which is a tragedy within itself but it's nothing compared to what your buddy Saddam and his sons did.

what in one year alone????, remember thos are only the registered deaths

how does that make us better than saddam lol?

we've killed slightly less or more hooray for us lovely people.

Edit, fixed quote tag.

Edited November 21, 2004 by Magikman

[Art Vandelay]

Look at the BBC link as well

365910[/snapback]

So were back to the 'BBC', eh?

The most BIASED organization in the world, I think I'll skip that little nugget, but thanks anyway!

Might as well go to Rense.com for info........at least I can read about UFO's there...

Edited November 21, 2004 by Art Vandelay

[zephyr]

LOL, it's more reliable the the 'venerable' BBC 

oh my god how u can even say that about fox i dont know.

Now art vandelay and zephyr.

How can the BBC be both a supporter and hater of america.

the BBC IS the most respected and least biased news agency on earth.

remeber its state funded , now where else on the planet would you get a state funded news agency thats so critical of its govt.

not in Iran zephyr , its hilarious how you mock our country and our form of democarcy.

365683[/snapback]

I'm a bit confused as to whom you are adressing here wun Ah...and by the way Mr. vandelay and I dont belong to the same political party:devil:

I never said anything about anybody supporting or hating America

Let's say the BBC uses the very known tactic of NOT talking about certain important things when it is not convenient ( I would call it censorship), or making some insignificant event look VERY important ( I dont know what to call this)! I have observed this phenomena many times concerning news related to Iran and is obviously done with a purpose! The others do it too, but we were talking about the BBC here, werent we?

Your strong nationalist feelings prevent you from properly judging other people's opinions of your country, therefore I find it useless to reply to your conclusion about me mocking any country!

[Talon]

Iraqis condemned the act as "cowardice" and "something forbidden in Islam."

And yet beheading prisioners of war is perfectly okay

I'm assuming this guy was an insurgent, then who cares, they don't abid why Geneva why should we. Plus, we shouldn't even be taking prisioners, you have to realise them eventually because of human rights protestors, then all that happens is events like that guy who went straight back to Afghanistan and killed a US aid worker the other month.

Make sure they aren't civilians, torture them for info, then kill them. End of story.

[DC09]

To: U.S. Congress

Friday November 12 2004

U.S.Marines were fired upon by snipers and insurgents armed with rocket-propelled grenades from a mosque and an adjacent building. The Marines returned fire with tank shells and machine guns.

They eventually stormed the mosque, killing 10 insurgents and wounding five others, and showing a cache of rifles and grenades for journalists.

The Marines told the pool reporter that the wounded insurgents would be left behind for others to pick up and move to the rear for treatment. But Saturday, another squad of Marines found that the mosque had been reoccupied by insurgents and attacked it again.

Four of the insurgents appeared to have been shot again in Saturday's fighting, and one of them appeared to be dead, according to the pool report. In the video, a Marine was seen noticing that one of the insurgents appeared to be breathing.

A Marine approached one of the men in the mosque saying, "He's [expletive] faking he's dead. He's faking he's [expletive] dead."

The Marine raised his rifle and fired into the insurgents head, at which point a companion said, "Well, he's dead now."

The camera then shows two Americans pointing weapons at another Iraqi insurgent lying motionless. But one of the Marines step back as the insurgent stretches out his hand, motioning that he is alive. The other Marine stands his ground, but neither of them fires.

When told by the pool reporter that the men were among those wounded in Friday's firefight, the Marine who fired the shot said, "I didn't know, sir. I didn't know."

"You can hear the tension in those Marines' voices. One is saying, 'He's faking it. He's faking it,'" Heyman said. "In a combat infantry soldier's training, he is always taught that his enemy is at his most dangerous when he is severely wounded."

A Marine in the same unit had been killed just a day earlier when he tended to the booby-trapped dead body of an insurgent.

NBC reported that the Marine seen shooting the Iraqi insurgent had himself been shot in the face the day before, but quickly returned to duty.

About a block away, a Marine was killed and five others wounded by a booby-trapped body they found in a house after a shootout with insurgents.

Amnesty International has noted reports that insurgents have used mosques as fighting positions, and have used white flags to lure Marines into ambushes.

The Marine who shot the insurgent has been withdrawn from the battlefield pending the results of an investigation, the U.S. military said.

These terrorists do not follow the rules of war. These terrorists kill innocent women by disemboweling them, cut of the heads of innocent truck drivers, detonate car bombs in crowds full of innocent people, and fly planes into buildings filled with innocent Americans.

It is my opinion that NOTHING should happen to this American Marine. He should be returned to his unit or be given an honorable discharge. We don't need our young men and women taking an extra second to decide if its right to shoot an enemy terrorist when that could mean that one of our soldiers could lose their life. The lives of our soldiers should be the single most important factor in this war against terrorism. The rights of terrorists can come second.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

Sign the petition.

[vimjams]

With regard to other incidents of 'illegal' killings

which ones are those?

Mr Vandelay...Read my post on page one of this thread for one example...I even have the newsreel (vid)...I'll try and find the link if you like?

Another example would be the famous helicopter killing of the three 'farmers'...The last one being slaughtered, as he lay wounded.

Another example of indiscriminate killing happened as a bus carrying Iraqi workmen was fired on and then burst into flames...(assumed to have been fighters) Men escaping from the burning bus were shot down...one poor guy managed to run several yards before he fell under a hail of bullets from cheering US soldiers.

Vandelay: Rather than just spit out remarks similar to 'I dunno abow dat' try reading something that the opposition are saying about this war...You wouldn't come across as a complete dumb ass so much.

Of course the situation is a lot different for troops in the firing line...I am not talking about that...The cases I am referring to are quite simply unnecessary and/or illegal killings.

British troops haven't found the need to go around shooting at everything moving so why do US troops feel trhe need? I reckon the world knows this and praises British professionalism. It's a real shame that British lives get lost because of gutless American behaviour.

Vimjams

Edited November 22, 2004 by vimjams

[vimjams]

Aquatus...Once again we respect your valid contribution but what you say maybe all logic and realistic in the long term...But (here and now) one just cannot overlook, excuse and/or permit murder to go unmentioned and ignored.

Vimjams

[zephyr]

Iraqis condemned the act as "cowardice" and "something forbidden in Islam."

And yet beheading prisioners of war is perfectly okay

I'm assuming this guy was an insurgent, then who cares, they don't abid why Geneva why should we. Plus, we shouldn't even be taking prisioners, you have to realise them eventually because of human rights protestors, then all that happens is events like that guy who went straight back to Afghanistan and killed a US aid worker the other month.

Make sure they aren't civilians, torture them for info, then kill them. End of story.

366410[/snapback]

Who said the beheadings were perfectly okay

You mean that kind of savagery is justified under certain circumstances

You're mistaken Talon; that kind of cowardly behaviour would NOT bring about the 'end of story', but an 'endless story'

[Art Vandelay]

Who said the beheadings were perfectly okay w00t.gif

You mean that kind of savagery is justified under certain circumstances w00t.gif

You're mistaken Talon; that kind of cowardly behaviour would NOT bring about the 'end of story', but an 'endless story' w00t.gif

He wasn't serious Zeph, he's just being very sarcastic.......

[Talon]

Who said the beheadings were perfectly okay

Most likely the insurgents, who are happy to murder civilians, yet the first to coplain if their own human rights are abused. As far as I'm concerned the Genva convention does not stand in this war as the insurgents have already stated they have no interest inabiding by it. Therefore, it is a handy cap for us to abid by it also. Prisioners should not be taken, end of story.

[zephyr]

It's very unwise to let them dictate the rules! It's exactly what they want!

[Talon]

Which is why we shouldn't play by the rules. So long as civilian casualties are avoided, this war should not leave a single insurgent left alive, no prisioners or war.