How Gun Control Made England The Most Violent

[+Hammerclaw]

Indeed you are pleasant to converse with, if Aztek GreenDude or Thor join in, posters will see the really negative side of Gun Culture and why so many are opposed to the ideal. And I find you reasons as tradition and collection valid, but again I argue home defence, if you have not ever had to use a weapon for home defence, how valid is that reason? A teen girls will eventually have sex, nothing will stop that, but there is no reason to think you will have to defend against a home invasion if you have not even been privy to such in your life, and the only reason comes from a statistic, I have finally ordered a copy of that book, but it is still two weeks away (along with Lawrence Krauss' "A Universe From Nothing") but surely it is time to reconsider traditions that are simply reassurance in this day and age. Gun Control would protect your gun rights further the way I see it, bettering odds that any person with a gun is responsible and would take the perceived negative edge away from Gun Culture.

Oh, I've been declared persona non grata here myself--read some of the back pages. The view of America through the eyes of a foreigner can be tragic and amusing and painful to read, but it pales in comparison when we express how another country looks through ours eyes. It's rather disconcerting to cause so much pain, completely out preportion to what is intended. A lot misconception and preconceptions on both sides. Australians are an easy going lot and don't let their chains get rattled a lot, although Tipotep set me straight on a couple of things. I'll leave others unmentioned lest in my stumblings around, I once more waken the dragon. Edited October 2, 2014 by Hammerclaw

[psyche101]

I'm sure I or others have told you the same about the U.S.. Most of our gun crimes are committed by an inner city criminal culture. They might not be mafia but they are gangs and many are well organized. Though some are not well organized but that doesn't take away from the point that it's mostly criminals settling beef with criminals. If that's something you can brush off in your country then why not ours?

However, this is the UK now, and I would say they are closer to our model than the US one, but I am unsure as to what you mean by forgiving the US for the same? When you say "criminals settling beef with criminals" is that not what I agreed happens, and state this is where guns end up with Gun Control? The Law can then chip away at organised crime once the average citizen is safe and make that situation better too, as has happened with the Australian model.

[psyche101]

Oh, I've been declared persona non grata here myself--read some of the back pages. The view of America through the eyes of a foreigner can be tragic and amusing and painful to read, but it pales in comparison when we express how another country liiks through ours eyes. It's rather disconcerting to cause so much pain, completely out preportion to what is intended. A lot misconception and preconceptions on both sides. Australians are an easy going lot and don't let their chains get rattled a lot, although Tipotep set me straight on a couple of things. I'll leave others unmentioned lest in my stumblings around, I once more waken the dragon.

Nail on the head - not about you being declared one way or another, but the cultures. Here in Australia we might have recently introduced Gun Control, but the discussions you and I have had have prompted me to look closer at history, and our country might have had serious gun bans introduced at the turn of the century, but ever since convict times we have had some level of gun control. We grew up without gun culture, like Americans grew up with guns, I think we can bridge the gap that makes Gun Culture look ugly if we can just shut the loudmouths up and let the accountable people (like the ever lovely HerNibs, DC and your good self) have a say. It is hard to realise from this side of the Ocean that Gun Culture has positive aspects, but thankfully calm positive people like you Max and Diechecker took the time to show the positive side in other instances. I think you good guys need to stop siding with the NRA and get your own community happening that is a d******** free zone. Shed the loudmouths and separate yourselves from them and Gun Culture will be seen in a better light but then that is a form of gun control. Seeing Gun Ownership as a right I honestly believe is the first and biggest problem, without accountability, responsibility, and very importantly maturity, the mouthy contingent gives all the quiet folks living happy healthy lifestyles a bad name. The 2nd just should not apply to 300 million people. That's too many individual ideas about what gun culture actually is to be united in anything.

[The Silver Thong]

I finished my PAL course in Canada and in roughly 75 days its been 30 sum odd know I will be able to buy almost any gun I want with fairly strick rules but I can still buy an ar-15 a glock or a shot gun with the PAL once the government clears me.

http://en.wikipedia....isition_Licence

Are there similar courses in Oz and the UK .

In no way what ever guns I buy will it be for home protection, no need. Im doing it for ****s and giggles and to shoot up a crap load of targets maybe an old fridge or car for extra fun. yes you can bring those to some ranges as your targets.

edit a miss type

Edited October 2, 2014 by The Silver Thong

[aquatus1]

That's a perfectly respectable reason. Many a soda bottle met their end at my hands in a similar fashion back in my youth.

[The Silver Thong]

That's a perfectly respectable reason. Many a soda bottle met their end at my hands in a similar fashion back in my youth.

I shot a hand gun a few times in Montana years ago a 3030 a couple times and really enjoyed it. As a 10 year old a .22 was my fav. Its been over 20 years and as you say as a kid very fun. In my mid 40s I kinda want to feel that again. I cant afford a sexy sports car so this is my option due to my mid life need to feel young again. I avoided using mid life crisis due to the topic lol.

Canada has 33 million people with over I think 9 million registered guns and gun crime is quit low here. I live in cowtown that once housed Billy the Kid if I remember correctly and we are acctually very far from the wild wild west we have a reputation for. However the redneck community is robust.

[+Hammerclaw]

Nail on the head - not about you being declared one way or another, but the cultures. Here in Australia we might have recently introduced Gun Control, but the discussions you and I have had have prompted me to look closer at history, and our country might have had serious gun bans introduced at the turn of the century, but ever since convict times we have had some level of gun control. We grew up without gun culture, like Americans grew up with guns, I think we can bridge the gap that makes Gun Culture look ugly if we can just shut the loudmouths up and let the accountable people (like the ever lovely HerNibs, DC and your good self) have a say. It is hard to realise from this side of the Ocean that Gun Culture has positive aspects, but thankfully calm positive people like you Max and Diechecker took the time to show the positive side in other instances. I think you good guys need to stop siding with the NRA and get your own community happening that is a d******** free zone. Shed the loudmouths and separate yourselves from them and Gun Culture will be seen in a better light but then that is a form of gun control. Seeing Gun Ownership as a right I honestly believe is the first and biggest problem, without accountability, responsibility, and very importantly maturity, the mouthy contingent gives all the quiet folks living happy healthy lifestyles a bad name. The 2nd just should not apply to 300 million people. That's too many individual ideas about what gun culture actually is to be united in anything.

Gun Culture is an ugly term, no doubt dreamed up in the media and is as offensive to a lot of gun owners as the term "peasant mentality" might be if applied to gun control advocates. There may be something to what is meant by the term gun culture in America, but most gun owners don't belong to it. Gangs and thugs and militias and the NRA represent only a small fraction of households with guns. The NRA has less than five million members. According to NPR at least a third of American households have guns, a vast silent majority drowned out by inner city hooligans and macho braggadocio. http://www.npr.org/2...n-of-gun-owners Edited October 2, 2014 by Hammerclaw

[The Silver Thong]

Heres a good link to gun culture here and I suspect most places.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ec5_1406311531

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I like the term "gun culture", simply because it's the only culture some of the people to whom it applies have.

[+Hammerclaw]

I like the term "gun culture", simply because it's the only culture some of the people to whom it applies have.

I would not presume to debate you on that point, except to add one word: Gun NUT Culture.

[+Hammerclaw]

I shot a hand gun a few times in Montana years ago a 3030 a couple times and really enjoyed it. As a 10 year old a .22 was my fav. Its been over 20 years and as you say as a kid very fun. In my mid 40s I kinda want to feel that again. I cant afford a sexy sports car so this is my option due to my mid life need to feel young again. I avoided using mid life crisis due to the topic lol.

Canada has 33 million people with over I think 9 million registered guns and gun crime is quit low here. I live in cowtown that once housed Billy the Kid if I remember correctly and we are acctually very far from the wild wild west we have a reputation for. However the redneck community is robust.

An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.

Robert A. Heinlein

[dr no]

A gun is to protect you from CRIMINALS.

Criminals with GUNS!

[psyche101]

I finished my PAL course in Canada and in roughly 75 days its been 30 sum odd know I will be able to buy almost any gun I want with fairly strick rules but I can still buy an ar-15 a glock or a shot gun with the PAL once the government clears me.

http://en.wikipedia....isition_Licence

Are there similar courses in Oz and the UK .

In no way what ever guns I buy will it be for home protection, no need. Im doing it for ****s and giggles and to shoot up a crap load of targets maybe an old fridge or car for extra fun. yes you can bring those to some ranges as your targets.

edit a miss type

Hey man if that is what floats your boat, good for you, all I can say is thanks for being honest, it's all one asks. If that spells out a reason for control or otherwise, so be it. My Mid Life Crisis is a health kick, maybe I should have gone the sports car and mistress.

[psyche101]

An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.

Robert A. Heinlein

[+Hammerclaw]

Excellent! You took the quote in the spirit with which it was posted. Heinlein is a riot to read!

[+Hammerclaw]

Criminals with GUNS!

What! Where? Sta-a-a-a-nd TO!

[aquatus1]

Criminals with GUNS!

[aquatus1]

I shot a hand gun a few times in Montana years ago a 3030 a couple times and really enjoyed it. As a 10 year old a .22 was my fav. Its been over 20 years and as you say as a kid very fun. In my mid 40s I kinda want to feel that again. I cant afford a sexy sports car so this is my option due to my mid life need to feel young again. I avoided using mid life crisis due to the topic lol.

'Course, when I think back on it, we never bothered to find out what was beyond the fence we were shooting at, or what happens to the ground when you pump several hundred rounds rounds into it. We did try setting up a swinging target, only to find that while we couldn't hit a swinging bottle to save our lives (or, for that matter, tie it very well to a swinging rope), we were remarkably accurate when it came to hitting the rope itself and having to go back down and retie everything back up again.

And, of course, entertaining the rumors of the fully automatic .22 short machine gun. Never did find out if such a thing existed.

Edited October 2, 2014 by aquatus1

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I would not presume to debate you on that point, except to add one word: Gun NUT Culture.

Gumnut Culture?

[+Hammerclaw]

Gumnut Culture?

The greatest one word reply to a German demand for surrender was made by General Anthony Clement McAuliffe commanding the 101st Airborne Division at the Siege of Bastogne in WW2. His reply was reported as one word: "Nuts" although it was rumored that his response was cleaned up for the papers by the omission of two other words,

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

The greatest one word reply to a German demand for surrender was made by General Anthony Clement McAuliffe commanding the 101st Airborne Division at the Siege of Bastogne in WW2. His reply was reported as one word: "Nuts" although it was rumored that his response was cleaned up for the papers by the omission of two other words,

The other two words, presumably being "you're" and "*******" preceeding "nuts"?

[+Hammerclaw]

The other two words, presumably being "you're" and "*******" preceeding "nuts"?

Something more like an invitation.

[danielost]

on the above chart the police reported crimes is the same or slightly higher than before gun control. I also noted that they changed what they were calling a crime in the 2000s. so no one knows what the real number is.

[danielost]

'Course, when I think back on it, we never bothered to find out what was beyond the fence we were shooting at, or what happens to the ground when you pump several hundred rounds rounds into it. We did try setting up a swinging target, only to find that while we couldn't hit a swinging bottle to save our lives (or, for that matter, tie it very well to a swinging rope), we were remarkably accurate when it came to hitting the rope itself and having to go back down and retie everything back up again.

And, of course, entertaining the rumors of the fully automatic .22 short machine gun. Never did find out if such a thing existed.

the closest I have handled was an m16.

[stevewinn]

The Yanks love their guns and this love of guns is alien to the British public, its a cultural thing. but to try and portray England (UK) as a more violent society because we have tight gun laws is mad and shows the gun lobby in the US is clutching at straws.