There is no God

[bigjim36]

He's must be right because no God capable of creating the Universe and everything in it including Life would possibly be smart enough to hide evidence of it's existence so perfectly, .

And then tell only religious fundamentalists the correct way to worship it, but of course he tells them each slightly differently and has them write holy books about it. Then he disappears and leaves them to fight it out for the next two thousand years, all the while promising to return and punish the sinners and reward the good. Those certainly do sound like the actions of an all knowing and powerful god. With logic like yours Hawking must be terrified of how you'll disprove him next.

[J. K.]

But if God is the type that many believe in - one that takes a personal interest in everyone, answers prayers, performs miracles,etc.... Then it's likely that these effects can be measured and presented as evidence for his existence.

Creationists generally believe that this is the case - although they're wrong.

Actually, testing God's effects would not be workable as a scientific experiment. He doesn't perform on command, so the experiment could not be repeated with similar results multiple times.

[libstaK]

Hey Tough guy believers, you claim to believe in something that is clearly unproven. You need this crutch passed on from your family before you and everyone you choose to socialize with. Put the book down for a second and listen to the other beliefs in this universe and educate yourselves. I ask this question, has Steven Hawking lived a very different life compared to yours? I will bet yes, he see's things that we do not on a daily basis. I was always taught to never judge a person until you walk a mile in his shoes. Some of you should try that before making such bold religious statements.

What if it is proven though? What if the problem is really that I can't prove it to you, you need to prove it for yourself? And what if the path to proving it for yourself required you to take a leap of faith first, so that experience could enter through an open door, not be dismissed by a closed mind?

You can see the fairytale in that statement or you can wonder, take your pick, the choice is always yours.

[bigjim36]

Actually, testing God's effects would not be workable as a scientific experiment. He doesn't perform on command, so the experiment could not be repeated with similar results multiple times.

I thought god could do whatever he wanted when he wanted. He's the supreme being. If there is a god why doesn't he hijack every tv, radio station and website on the planet, have them all broadcast his message simultaneously and prove to the world he exists once and for all? If he can create the universe and everything in it surely he can do that?

Edited September 30, 2014 by bigjim36

[J. K.]

I thought god could do whatever he wanted when he wanted. He's the supreme being. If there is a god why doesn't he hijack every tv, radio station and website on the planet, have them all broadcast his message simultaneously and prove to the world he exists once and for all? If he can create the universe and everything in it surely he can do that?

He has chosen to use humans to spread His message.

[Mr Walker]

I thought god could do whatever he wanted when he wanted. He's the supreme being. If there is a god why doesn't he hijack every tv, radio station and website on the planet, have them all broadcast his message simultaneously and prove to the world he exists once and for all? If he can create the universe and everything in it surely he can do that?

God operates via belief. Therefore he requires belief not knowledge. It is like a real father. I can know my father exists, yet dismiss him as irrelevant and ignore his teaching advice and lesons, but if I have faith/belief in my father's existence even though I have never met him, that belief will compel me to act as I imagine my father would want me to act. or at least to accept his existence as part of my world view and incorporate his existence in it.

You can ignore something real but you cannot ignore something you chose to believe in. Thus god is more powerful via belief in his existence, than via knowledge of his existence.

[+HerNibs]

He has chosen to use humans to spread His message.

Yeah, that's a trustworthy medium...

You would think a deity could do better.

Nibs

[fullywired]

^{People who say there is no god simply have not met "him".}

Hah! but everybody does not move in the same circles as you

fullywired

[Mr Walker]

Hah! but everybody does not move in the same circles as you

fullywired

Then they should get out more .

[fullywired]

That answer might suit a stupid western modern Christian or other type of religion ... but it certainly is embarrassing for (Hawking) as it reveals his lack of knowledge of deep mystical religious thought on the very issues he outlines.

..

Of all the descriptions you could have used for Hawkings ,I don't think stupid would fit him but of course he isn't a Christian and neither does he lack in knowledge and I have never before heard him thus described

fullywired

Edited September 30, 2014 by fullywired

[Davros of Skaro]

Demonstration of a Jesus Jacket.

[fullywired]

Then they should get out more .

Bet you hang out with the "in crowd"

[Quaentum]

Actually, testing God's effects would not be workable as a scientific experiment. He doesn't perform on command, so the experiment could not be repeated with similar results multiple times.

He evidently doesn't perform at all. Perhaps he retired and moved to Florida.

[Quaentum]

God operates via belief. Therefore he requires belief not knowledge. It is like a real father. I can know my father exists, yet dismiss him as irrelevant and ignore his teaching advice and lesons, but if I have faith/belief in my father's existence even though I have never met him, that belief will compel me to act as I imagine my father would want me to act. or at least to accept his existence as part of my world view and incorporate his existence in it.

You can ignore something real but you cannot ignore something you chose to believe in. Thus god is more powerful via belief in his existence, than via knowledge of his existence.

If belief made God real then so would Santa Claus and a myriad of other characters be real as well. Based on your final statement, which would be more powerful, a belief there was $10,000 in your bank account or knowledge that there was?

[+Paranoid Android]

If belief made God real then so would Santa Claus and a myriad of other characters be real as well. Based on your final statement, which would be more powerful, a belief there was $10,000 in your bank account or knowledge that there was?

The difference is I've never seen an adult "convert" to a belief in Santa Claus, but I have seen adults convert from atheism to belief in a God or gods. Just saying.

[White Crane Feather]

Further thoughts from Hawkins

“When people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them that the question itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the big bang, so there is no time for god to make the universe in. It’s like asking directions to the edge of the earth; The Earth is a sphere; it doesn’t have an edge; so looking for it is a futile exercise. We are each free to believe what we want, and it’s my view that the simplest explanation is; there is no god. No one created our universe,and no one directs our fate. This leads me to a profound realization; There is probably no heaven, and no afterlife either. We have this one life to appreciate the grand design of the universe, and for that I am extremely grateful.”

― Stephen Hawking

fullywired

moral of this story is "get some laughing done ,your a long time dead"

Sigh... Hawking is being misleading here and he knows it. It's to bad.....I grew up reading his stuff and like his work, but he is a scientist not a philosopher. When he started pushing his beliefs and misleading the public in certain things, I lost a lot of respect. Suskind however is a much more honest atheist scientist that's less interested in his ego.

Edited September 30, 2014 by White Crane Feather

[StarMountainKid]

The difference is I've never seen an adult "convert" to a belief in Santa Claus, but I have seen adults convert from atheism to belief in a God or gods. Just saying

I've seen the opposite 'conversion' happen. So, what is 'conversion'? For me it's just a personal psychological state of mind having no external effect on the universe. 'Belief' is a psychological state of mind. People can convert to some very strange beliefs. I think all 'belief' states of mind are fundamentally the same psychological process.

In the end, it all comes down to one's opinion.

[bigjim36]

God operates via belief. Therefore he requires belief not knowledge. It is like a real father. I can know my father exists, yet dismiss him as irrelevant and ignore his teaching advice and lesons, but if I have faith/belief in my father's existence even though I have never met him, that belief will compel me to act as I imagine my father would want me to act. or at least to accept his existence as part of my world view and incorporate his existence in it.

You can ignore something real but you cannot ignore something you chose to believe in. Thus god is more powerful via belief in his existence, than via knowledge of his existence.

If god operates via belief how did he manage before he created the universe and everything in it? If no one was around to believe in him how did he exist? Please explain this paradox without saying that "god believed in himself" because if that's the case he certainly doesn't need us to worship him does he?

[J. K.]

If god operates via belief how did he manage before he created the universe and everything in it? If no one was around to believe in him how did he exist? Please explain this paradox without saying that "god believed in himself" because if that's the case he certainly doesn't need us to worship him does he?

You have an incorrect interpretation of "operates via belief." God is not fueled or sustained by belief; He is fully self-sufficient. The "belief" is our trust or faith in Him.

[Leonardo]

Further thoughts from Hawkins

“When people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them that the question itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the big bang, so there is no time for god to make the universe in. It’s like asking directions to the edge of the earth; The Earth is a sphere; it doesn’t have an edge; so looking for it is a futile exercise. We are each free to believe what we want, and it’s my view that the simplest explanation is; there is no god. No one created our universe,and no one directs our fate. This leads me to a profound realization; There is probably no heaven, and no afterlife either. We have this one life to appreciate the grand design of the universe, and for that I am extremely grateful.”

― Stephen Hawking

fullywired

And with all due respect to Mr Hawking, if time didn't exist before the Big Bang, then how could that Big Bang have happened?

I respect his intellect and dedication to science, but even smart people are stupid at least some of the time.

[+Liquid Gardens]

The difference is I've never seen an adult "convert" to a belief in Santa Claus, but I have seen adults convert from atheism to belief in a God or gods. Just saying.

I don't see why the age of the converted, assuming they are old enough to comprehend language and concepts sufficiently, necessarily matters on this topic. Your religious belief is largely (I think almost entirely) based on faith and, unlike reason and empiricism, I don't see why a younger person is any more unable to ascertain 'truths' by faith than you are. For all we know they are better able to ascertain religious reality as there minds usually aren't cluttered with the corruptions of 'the world' that most adults have little choice to engage in.

The clearer difference is that people don't typically argue for the belief in Santa based on faith, kids believe it based on reason (usually based on some deception on the part of parents), and end up rejecting it based on reason also. In that sense, the evaluation of Santa's existence is more rational than believing in faith-based propositions like Jesus is our savior, et al. Even kids have criteria by which they would accept that Santa doesn't exist; I can't say the same for most believers I engage with, faith is typically impenetrable.

[Quaentum]

The difference is I've never seen an adult "convert" to a belief in Santa Claus, but I have seen adults convert from atheism to belief in a God or gods. Just saying.

So tell me which religious conversion is correct and which is not?

[Quaentum]

You have an incorrect interpretation of "operates via belief." God is not fueled or sustained by belief; He is fully self-sufficient. The "belief" is our trust or faith in Him.

It's interesting that your comment is not based on knowledge that it is how God operates but belief that it is how he operates.

[Quaentum]

And with all due respect to Mr Hawking, if time didn't exist before the Big Bang, then how could that Big Bang have happened?

I respect his intellect and dedication to science, but even smart people are stupid at least some of the time.

Since time is the measure of events as they happen, without the events you wouldn't be able to have time would you?

[bigjim36]

You have an incorrect interpretation of "operates via belief." God is not fueled or sustained by belief; He is fully self-sufficient. The "belief" is our trust or faith in Him.

Operates via belief is walkers phrase, that's his belief not mine. I don't believe in god.