Why don't we stay out of the Mid East?

[miserablewithlife]

Why can't we just the Mid East be alone and allow them to sort out there own issues. Why must the west constantly micromanage the affairs of other countries? It seems whenever the west messes with the region these terrorist groups start to appear. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure that one out. Think of the money that could spent on improving education, quality of life, the welfare of others in our own countries rather than on bombs and bloodshed. I can't understand how so many treat war like it is a sport and their cheering like it a basketball game. I it is sickening how disconnected we have become from the realities of suffering.

The Islamophobia is rather disturbing, not all muslims are out trying to kill us. Contrary to the media portrayal they are just like anyone else. They go to a different building of worship but that is about it. They have the same wants and desires of anyone else to succeed and be happy it is times like these. We need to focus on the commonalities that bring us together rather than the divisions that tear us apart if we have any hope of living in a halfway decent society.

[stevewinn]

resources, oil and gas, and trade routes. that's why we get involved in the middle east. the Earth only has finite resources, by keeping countries in a constant state of war and conflict it prevents them from becoming prosperous and prevents them vying for the limited resources with ourselves.(west) otherwise we'd be in direct competition for the limited resources.

once the US moves towards the Asia Pacific region within 10 years, (cannot stress how important this fact is) The Middle East will be left to its own devices. The US has told the UK, they plan not to have a Aircraft Carrier on station East of Suez. which as led to the UK to building two super carriers, and establishing a Naval Headquarters in Bahrain at the cost of £6million. the first time we've been back since 1971 when we withdrew from the area. As part of the ‘end of Empire’ the Royal Navy withdrew its forces from the Gulf in 1971. It returned with patrols in 1980 during the Iran-Iraq War when British shipping in the region was under threat.

As long as our national interests are out here, then there will be a Royal Navy presence here,” said the commodore, commander of the UK Maritime Component Command.

“Our national interests cut across this region in so many ways – large numbers of British nationals live here, it is a source of much of our energy, we have friendly relations with many nations.”

"the Royal Naval Headquarters will choreograph Royal Navy operations across a vast area embracing the Eastern Mediterranean, Red Sea, Gulf and Indian Ocean almost as far south as Madagascar, more than 2½ million square miles of sea"

"Nowhere else outside UK home waters is there such a concentration of the Royal Navy ships, submarines, aircraft and personnel, 24/7. And on any one day there are around 3,000 merchant ships moving through UKMCC’s domain"

“One trillion dollars of trade passes through this region every year,” Cdre Blount stresses. “What would happen if anything affected that is unimaginable. Keeping open these arteries is vital. This is a joint theatre but with a heavily maritime flavour – and by dint of geography will always be one.”

Edited October 6, 2014 by stevewinn

[+and-then]

resources, oil and gas, and trade routes. that's why we get involved in the middle east. the Earth only has finite resources, by keeping countries in a constant state of war and conflict it prevents them from becoming prosperous and prevents them vying for the limited resources with ourselves.(west) otherwise we'd be in direct competition for the limited resources.

once the US moves towards the Asia Pacific region within 10 years, (cannot stress how important this fact is) The Middle East will be left to its own devices. The US has told the UK, they plan not to have a Aircraft Carrier on station East of Suez. which as led to the UK to building two super carriers, and establishing a Naval Headquarters in Bahrain at the cost of £6million. the first time we've been back since 1971 when we withdrew from the area. As part of the ‘end of Empire’ the Royal Navy withdrew its forces from the Gulf in 1971. It returned with patrols in 1980 during the Iran-Iraq War when British shipping in the region was under threat.

So apparently the UK feels it is necessary to expend tremendous resources to secure its interests there even after the US leaves. It may be shameful, but it's what countries DO. Those who resent the fact or decry it as amoral probably don't truly consider what effects non intervention would have on their own daily lives. On balance I think I could learn to live more simply and endure the restructuring of communities so as to be less dependent on carbon fuels. The better "life" one enjoys though, the harder it would be to give it up. Hence there will be stronger nations dominating weaker nations, just as has always been. It isn't right but it certainly is how humans act.

[rashore]

Considering how heated these topics can get, I'm going to put up a friendly reminder before it potentially gets out of hand...

Keep the discussion civil and decent please. Don't resort to insults or bashing of any country, faith, or peoples.

Edited October 6, 2014 by rashore

[stevewinn]

So apparently the UK feels it is necessary to expend tremendous resources to secure its interests there even after the US leaves. It may be shameful, but it's what countries DO. Those who resent the fact or decry it as amoral probably don't truly consider what effects non intervention would have on their own daily lives. On balance I think I could learn to live more simply and endure the restructuring of communities so as to be less dependent on carbon fuels. The better "life" one enjoys though, the harder it would be to give it up. Hence there will be stronger nations dominating weaker nations, just as has always been. It isn't right but it certainly is how humans act.

The US has had to move its focus due to the rise of China. they've (US) told partners that in the future, areas of responsibility need to be covered. such as North Atlantic. Mediterranean, /Red Sea/East of Suez, Gulf and Indian Ocean. so far the only ones to step up besides the British are the French. Germany as refused to up defence spending. Italy has her local waters covered. but its going to be testing times for the Western powers without the USA's assets. It was telling when Libya kicked off the USA for the First time didn't have a Air Craft Carrier in the Med and one had to be tasked there. sign of things to come.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Why can't we just the Mid East be alone and allow them to sort out there own issues. Why must the west constantly micromanage the affairs of other countries? It seems whenever the west messes with the region these terrorist groups start to appear. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure that one out. Think of the money that could spent on improving education, quality of life, the welfare of others in our own countries rather than on bombs and bloodshed. I can't understand how so many treat war like it is a sport and their cheering like it a basketball game. I it is sickening how disconnected we have become from the realities of suffering.

The Islamophobia is rather disturbing, not all muslims are out trying to kill us. Contrary to the media portrayal they are just like anyone else. They go to a different building of worship but that is about it. They have the same wants and desires of anyone else to succeed and be happy it is times like these. We need to focus on the commonalities that bring us together rather than the divisions that tear us apart if we have any hope of living in a halfway decent society.

I understand but IS is pure evil, there was rumours of them having missiles but we don't know if they know to operate them. Missiles meaning that could reach Tel Aviv or Dubai or even Russia. But charities aka Oxfam and i actually believe it give aid to terrorist organisations whether its for poor people or not.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Simple, because the Middle East's problems don't stay in the Middle East.

[miserablewithlife]

Simple, because the Middle East's problems don't stay in the Middle East.

A lot of that is due to provocation by the us and israel.

[libstaK]

A lot of that is due to provocation by the us and israel.

On that level, the horse has well and truly bolted. We are well past the point in history where we can consider removing ourselves from what is currently happening in the middle east. The blame game is a great distraction and each side has it's ammo as far as that goes but it doesn't change the reality today.

[rashore]

Simple, because the Middle East's problems don't stay in the Middle East.

Ain't that the truth. Ever since man has been able to travel in, out, or through the area is hasn't stayed there.

[stevewinn]

On that level, the horse has well and truly bolted. We are well past the point in history where we can consider removing ourselves from what is currently happening in the middle east. The blame game is a great distraction and each side has it's ammo as far as that goes but it doesn't change the reality today.

We might be past the point in History, But we can certainly remove ourselves from the entanglement in the middle east, and soon would If the oil and gas ran out tomorrow. has no-one ever noticed how entire continents stay out of the middle east. Its only us western Nations who get involved and that's because of energy resources and sea trade lanes.

The problems in the middle east started with the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the drawing of artificial borders by the great powers on a map. via the league of Nations, Its remarkable how the events of 90'odd years ago can and still affects modern day. in the case of the fall of the Ottoman Empire its final days were in the years 1922-1923. so After the First world war the Ottoman Empire was carved up and this is when the problems started. new regions and countries formed.

Have a read of the Treaty of Sèvres

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres

have a watch of this BBC documentary. wont play so this one from the History Channel will have to do. poor in comparison. but.

https://www.youtube....h?v=DfMTzP_ez4E

Edited October 7, 2014 by stevewinn

[6.6.6]

Why don't we nuke the middle east?

[Eldorado]

There are no doubt Arabs who've been asking similar all their lives.

[libstaK]

We might be past the point in History, But we can certainly remove ourselves from the entanglement in the middle east, and soon would If the oil and gas ran out tomorrow. has no-one ever noticed how entire continents stay out of the middle east. Its only us western Nations who get involved and that's because of energy resources and sea trade lanes.

Disentangling our business dealings with the middle east is a good idea. Disentangling our military aid to get rid of ISIS - is not an option. Having to constantly repeat today's reality is getting a little tiresome.

- They are taking westerners hostage and sawing off their heads.

- They have asked for western placed islamic jihadists to attack "infidels" whererever they find them.

- They are killing local populations in the hundreds and thousands and leaving heads on pikes whereever they go.

- They have threatened to show up at the White House.

We can't just walk away and say that is none of our business.

[libstaK]

There are no doubt Arabs who've been asking similar all their lives.

The difference being their question is more like "why can't we get a hold of nukes so we can bomb the west". The west, which has them, does not use them. If they had them, I think there are actually those amongst them that would take that next step and actually use them.

[stevewinn]

Disentangling our business dealings with the middle east is a good idea. Disentangling our military aid to get rid of ISIS - is not an option. Having to constantly repeat today's reality is getting a little tiresome.

- They are taking westerners hostage and sawing off their heads.

- They have asked for western placed islamic jihadists to attack "infidels" whererever they find them.

- They are killing local populations in the hundreds and thousands and leaving heads on pikes whereever they go.

- They have threatened to show up at the White House.

We can't just walk away and say that is none of our business.

Absolutely mind boggling.

ISIS have killed more Arabs-Moslems than westerners. the UN puts that number at 120,000 and counting. We have Turkey bordering Syria, Turkey has the largest army in the middle east, Second biggest in NATO, wont get involved. wont allow NATO allies to use their Airfields. paid ransom and exchanged ISIS prisoners for captured Turkish hostages. so now these fighters are back in action for ISIS - have been turning a blind eye to ISIS funnelling money and oil through Turkey.

Then we have Saudi Arabia who was funding ISIS, a long with Qatar. - Saudi Arabia biggest Air Force and major financier of terrorism in the region and then we've got Iran another regional power doing nothing. So we have Turkey Saudi Arabia and Iran the Three regional powers.and doing nothing. Iran is only willing to get involved in return for concessions on its Nuclear program.

And you still think its the problem of the West to get involved. while those in the region sit on their hands when over a hundred thousand Arab-Moslems have been killed. but Because four Westerns have been beheaded that justifies the intervention of the West. and with that intervention the wrath of the Islamic world is yet again directed towards the West for what is seen as bombing Moslems.

If you want to keep making Australia a target for Islamic Terrorists - Keep getting into conflicts that don't involve you in the middle east. Australia 7,500nm miles away from Syria. But somehow its your problem. United Kingdom 2,000nm miles from Syria, No trade links or vital trade routes at risk, no national interest whatsoever but we're involved.

We have yet to beat any terrorist organisation on the so called American led - War on Terror. The only ones who can beat ISIS are the Likes of Assad. Saddam, Gaddfi, all Dictators. and we've seen fit to remove them at a cost to ourselves - go back to the year 1991 the only country actively being targeted by Islamic terrorists was the USA, with Al Qaeda s first attack on the twin towers. in 1993 as a direct result of the USA getting involved in the first Iraqi war. then we had the 2001 attacks. and Americas war on terror, which we've all been dragged along by. so now thanks to US foreign policy and our willingness to go along with it, all Western nations are now prime targets for Islamic terrorists. when are people going to realise, we need to stop getting involved in stupid foreign adventures that do not concern us.

please tell me, why we got involved in Syria in 2010. why, what national interest was it of Australia.

George Galloway. MP. not a favourite of mine but when someone speaks sense you have to give credit where its due.

Stick with the video only 13 minutes long. and he wipes the floor with Jacqui Smith (Labour party)

Edited October 7, 2014 by stevewinn

[Lilly]

Right now the President of Turkey (I saw this on TV) is emploring the world for help as the border city of Kobane is being beseiged by ISIS forces.

http://www.theguardi...ng-syrian-kurds

Give ISIS the resources and terrotory it's grasping for and things will go from bad to worse.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Lilly
typo

[libstaK]

Absolutely mind boggling.

You find it mind bobbling that people care what happens to people in the middle east when they are about to be overrun by a group like ISIS?

please tell me, why we got involved in Syria in 2010. why, what national interest was it of Australia.

I don't know why you got involved.

Please show me where Australia was involved in the Syria conflict?

[Lilly]

You find it mind bobbling that people care what happens to people in the middle east when they are about to be overrun by a group like ISIS?

And keep in mind that ISIS has threatened western nations with promises of terrorism. Don't think that can't happen where you are...pretty sure that's what many here thought right before 9/11 killed 3,000 in one morning (rhetorical question/comment not aimed at anyone in particular).

Edited October 7, 2014 by Lilly
clarification

[stevewinn]

You find it mind bobbling that people care what happens to people in the middle east when they are about to be overrun by a group like ISIS?

I don't know why you got involved.

Please show me where Australia was involved in the Syria conflict?

Australian involvement in targeting ISIS. what interest is that of Australia. So its more of a national interest to you 7,500nm miles away meanwhile in the same region on the border of Iraq and Syria the regional powers do nothing. that is the question im asking you. when are you going to start asking the question why is the west coming from thousands of miles away risking the wrath of Islamic terrorist and the lives of our military while those in the region do nothing. its Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Jordan, United Arab Emirates that should be taking the lead. Why aren't they.

[Lilly]

List of who's involved in fighting ISIS:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/23/world/meast/syria-airstrikes-countries-involved/

As of now Turkey is on the active list as well.

[stevewinn]

And keep in mind that ISIS has threatened western nations with promises of terrorism. Don't think that can't happen where you are...pretty sure that's what many here thought right before 9/11 killed 3,000 in one morning (rhetorical question/comment not aimed at anyone in particular).

And keep in mind,. ISIS were once funded by the West in our attempt at removing Assad. they are now threatening Western Nations who have taken to the air to bomb them. when are people going to start joining the dots and realise our actions have consequences? have you noticed ISIS have only threatened Western Nations which have taken part in bombing them from the air.

9/11 was a direct consequence of your once CIA-funded Mujahideen fighter - one Osama Bin Laden, for your foriegn policy in the first Gulf War. which seen Al Qaeda attack the world trade centre first in 1993 and sustained foreign policy in the middle east, which resulted in 9/11.

Do people no see a pattern. US and Western nations back fighters to remove the Russians in Afghanistan. Led by the CIA, to arm Mujahideen fighters. - less than four years later US mainland attacked, and Embassies abroad by Al Qaeda led by Osama Bin Laden.

Syria 2010, Arab up rising. US and limited number of Western Nations decide to take advantage and remove Syrian leader Assad's regime. deciding to support and finance the "rebels" under the banner of "free Syrian Army" which is an Amalgamation of terrorist groups including ISIS. less than four years later we are now fighting ISIS. and threats of attacks from a terrorist group on our homeland.

And people are more outraged by ISIS than our own Actions, and scratch their heads, ISIS are targeting us now, i wonder how that happened, why us, its like people have a memory of a gold fish and can only remember the last news bulletin and just conveniently forget the past.

[Lilly]

ISIS is also targeting anyone that happens to be Shiite, Christian, Jewish (anything but Sunni). I suppose that's the fault of the west and the CIA as well?

Edited October 7, 2014 by Lilly
spelling

[stevewinn]

List of who's involved in fighting ISIS:

http://www.cnn.com/2...tries-involved/

As of now Turkey is on the active list as well.

Turkey should be sending in 90,000 of its 150,000 regular Soldiers across the border, giving free access to NATO allies in the form of command HQ's and Airfields. But no,The RAF is having to fly from Cyprus, refuel in the air and return to Cyprus. - Where if Turkey was to offer free access to any of its four Airfields on the border, of Syria/Iraq we could have drones identify targets and within minutes planes could be attacking them. But up until now NO. all involved are flying hundreds of miles before we reach Northern Iraq. the USA is flying off its Carrier the George H.W Bush which is floating in the Arabian Gulf. near 300 miles away.

We should be banging on Turkeys door and ask them questions. NATO ally, Future EU member.

[Lilly]

It appears ISIS's neighbors don't like them very much either. Here are the locals who've lined up against them:

Turkey (this morning)

UAE

Saudi Arabia

Jordan

Bahrain

Qatar