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miserablewithlife

Why don't we stay out of the Mid East?

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bee

.

Uh oh......after writing the above post yesterday I stumbled on this link....

http://www.examiner....rush-oil-prices

There has been alot of scuttlebutt in recent weeks over the United States involvement to take out the Islamic State, and to provide air and military support to Syrian insurgents fighting to take down the Assad regime. However, after a year where Saudi Arabia felt stabbed in the back by the U.S. when their promises fell short in September of 2013, a new secret deal is emerging on Oct. 10 where America will supply manpower and resources at the Arab Kingdom's request in their religious and secular goal of the end of Syria, while at the same time the Saudi's will aid in the U.S.'s proxy war against Russia by dumping oil into the markets, and driving down prices in the hopes of destroying several nation's economies.
Economics and geo-politics go hand in hand, with monetary currencies and the currency of oil being the focal points of nearly every diplomatic and military conflict over the past 50 years. And while there appeared to be a serious schism last September between the two leaders over Syria, the dollar, and the petro-dollar system, a new secret deal made between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia appears to have healed all wounds, and brought them back in agreement towards the destruction of the Syrian regime, in exchange for the attempted collapse of the Rouble by depressing the global price of oil.

Being the biggest oil producer in the world...gives Saudi Arabia a lot of power...

The Public in the West are generally very much against the '''Islamic State'''...but are generally not against the Assad regime...

In spite of all the intense propaganda against it last year.....

So the US and it's allies now find themselves between a rock and a hard place...?

83315aa4d1a6d4a3e60b781bad37cf14.jpg?itok=_QsA8dla

Secretary of State John Kerry meeting with Syrian opposition

Awwww look at their happy little faces...probably pretty much like the happy little faces of the leaders of the Libya Opposition

before the you know what hit the fan... :hmm:

.

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docyabut2

I was against the US going in again with boots on the ground and let the middle east handle and destroy ISIS but its but it not happening . We could have done it with the freedom army in Syria, the Kerds and maybe Turkey and the other counties would have stepped if we did. It could be the biggest mistake the US ever made when ISIS becomes a worst threat to the world then any the other terrorists groups ever were..

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docyabut2

ISIS (assuming one can believe ANYTHING being reported) has approx 2 billion in cash reserves. If they have even half that amount, they are far more well funded and therefore more dangerous than AQ. I've tried to make the point several times (obviously poorly) that the danger from ISIS isn't their current number of troops, tanks, or aircrafts. It is the fact that their ideology and methods could "catch the imagination" of a wider population in the Sunni world. These people don't look at the world as we do in the west. It's a lesson we never seem to learn. For them an enemy who will not fight is a coward and can be pushed. They don't appreciate restraint - they try to take advantage of it. Your scenario appears to rely on the region mending itself. Dear old Darwin tells us that the STRONG survive. So only the strongest of these types will be left at some point. Strong to them equals brutal. Our leaders seem content to wring hands anyway so I suspect the non intervention you seek will be the actual outcome - or very close to it. Excuses about why our policy failed will abound on the day after a major western city is struck with chemical, bio or nuke weapons. They won't matter much.

Isis already has chemical weapons. who knows they could be working for Iran with the plot to give them the atomic bomb, Another sick person`s idealology of taken over the world just like Hitler.

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Space Commander Travis

So now IS could be collaborating with the arch-villains, Iran? I should look up who's pro IS and who's not.

Unless of course Iran is so devious and Evil that they're just pretending to oppose ISS to con the West into considering that they're less of a threat than they are.

God, they're devious.

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third_eye

Oh it is a tangled web of deviousness ~

Behind The Headlines

Published: Sunday October 12, 2014 MYT 12:00:00 AM

Updated: Sunday October 12, 2014 MYT 8:16:57 AM

Exhuming fact from fiction

Where undeclared interests reign, such as in global strategic concerns, the need to get a firmer grip on reality grows.

WHEN political or ideological passions run high, it is time to revert to the facts.

This applies to the Ukraine crisis where ethnic, national, regional and strategic concerns, perspectives, priorities and interests – often undeclared – are entwined with searing passions.

Since objective realities are in disarray, or are deceptively obscured, uncovering the facts behind the issues can be quite a challenge. An even greater challenge lies in decoding these passions in the guise of dispassionate analysis.

... Then came Cirincione’s amazing claim: that the US is not too concerned with Russia to the point of having ignored it. Could this be possible, with the big bear having become the huge bugbear for the West in the age of Putin?

Putin’s Russia is not that of Yeltsin, nor is it like the Soviet Union of Gorbachev. It is also a major player on several global fronts, including but not limited to playing the leading role in the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, potentially another bugbear for the West.

It is a Russia that has grown rich and feisty over its abundant oil and gas deposits, yet its overdependence on these commodities makes it tempting for any major rival to try to unsettle.

True, the US needs Russian cooperation on a host of global concerns as Cirincione pointed out. But at the same time, Putin’s Russia has been firm in striking an independent position on Syria, in the UN Security Council and much else.

If the US had actually ignored Russia, US strategists must have been sleeping on the job. It would be safer to expect that they are actually doing their job, and that Cirincione is wrong.

To do so would explain a lot. It would not excuse US missteps and wrongdoing, but it would certainly make Nato’s expansion eastwards comprehensible.

Meanwhile, the US as the world’s sole superpower remains fearful of Iran, North Korea, Assad’s Syria and a host of relatively puny concerns on the global stage. Is it then any less paranoid than Russia?

To expect a US administration figure to admit that Washington has been making calculations against Russian or Chinese interests may be a touch too much. But his denial of it is only to be expected, serving to confirm it.

Edited by third_eye

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Mr.United_Nations

.

Uh oh......after writing the above post yesterday I stumbled on this link....

http://www.examiner....rush-oil-prices

Being the biggest oil producer in the world...gives Saudi Arabia a lot of power...

The Public in the West are generally very much against the '''Islamic State'''...but are generally not against the Assad regime...

In spite of all the intense propaganda against it last year.....

So the US and it's allies now find themselves between a rock and a hard place...?

83315aa4d1a6d4a3e60b781bad37cf14.jpg?itok=_QsA8dla

Secretary of State John Kerry meeting with Syrian opposition

Awwww look at their happy little faces...probably pretty much like the happy little faces of the leaders of the Libya Opposition

before the you know what hit the fan... :hmm:

.

Alot of Saudi Arabia but what about the mention of Turkeys role against Assad?

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NewAge1

The US and Russia will share intelligence on ISIL:

''The US and Russia have common ground in their concern about fighters from their countries joining ISIL, and then returning to carry out attacks at home.

"There may be as many as 500 or more from Russia," Kerry said. These include fighters from Russia's predominantly Muslim North Caucasus, a region where armed rebels have waged daily violence to establish an Islamic state.''

Source: http://www.aljazeera...1390953313.html

Edited by sam_comm

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bee

Alot of Saudi Arabia but what about the mention of Turkeys role against Assad?

Well the link said that Turkey might be in line for having some of the land if Assad's Syria is defeated...

http://www.examiner....rush-oil-prices

Two weeks ago, we revealed one part of the "Secret Deal" between the US and Saudi Arabia: namely what the US 'brought to the table' as part of its grand alliance strategy in the middle east, which proudly revealed Saudi Arabia to be "aligned" with the US against ISIS.

What was not clear is what was the other part: what did the Saudis bring to the table, or said otherwise, how exactly it was that Saudi Arabia would compensate the US for bombing the Assad infrastructure until the hated Syrian leader was toppled, creating a power vacuum in his wake that would allow Syria, Qatar, Jordan and/or Turkey to divide the spoils of war as they saw fit.

looks like the IS International 'Rebels' are pre-empting the Big Players and are already stepping into the growing power vacuum...

causing quite a headache for Saudi Arabia and all concerned, no doubt...

How to control the Islamic State expansion without supporting the Syrian Army.......tricky....

Do they even want to control the IS expansion..? ...maybe an alliance would be good enough for them..

Turkey are treading a tightrope in the whole affair.....wanting the land.? Wanting to defeat Assad and the Kurds..

But having to make a show of some kind of opposition to IS...to appease the West...?

.

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and then

Well it seems the consensus on here is for the West to continually get caught up in foreign adventures in the middle east to the detriment. If that is the stance then people better be prepared for the consequences of our actions in the form of future threats of Islamic terrorism actively targeting us at home and abroad, and we risked all this for what?

no matter how good the plan, its good to stop and question the results.

Before and After our involvement.

Afghanistan - disaster terrorist existed before and continue to do so.

Iraq - disaster no terrorist existed removed Saddam - result there are now terrorists, and military operation's are still on going air strikes and arming the Kurds.

Libya - disaster no terrorists existed removed Gaddafi - result there are now terrorist groups, which have spilled over borders: see French war in Mail, CAR.)

Syria - disaster. no terrorist existed attempt to remove Assad, - result civil war, country awash with terrorist groups. USA bombing from the air.

Seriously - combined civilian deaths from these conflicts 1.3 Million people dead. and that's non-combatants.

Yes lets keep going. pick out the next country we'll mess up. because were doing oh so well dropping Democracy in the form of 1000lb bombs from a thousand feet. seriously pick the next **** up.

WM4.gif

Steve, why is it so hard for you to accept that this ideology has decided to make war on the rest of the world? Leaving them in their own countries works only until they have consolidated their power. It is a religious war - hence it is irrational by it's very nature. I don't understand how you can imagine that these people will stop their conquest voluntarily.

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Space Commander Travis

Steve, why is it so hard for you to accept that this ideology has decided to make war on the rest of the world?

Because that is simply an utter denial of responsibility. "They: incomprehensible evil, us: have never done anything at all to encourage any kind of resentment of us" is purely and simply hiding your head in the sand. They would not have decided to make war on the rest of the world if the "rest of the World", i.e,. America and the countries that have always gone along with it, hadn't had a policy for decades of thoroughly ****ing up any countries in the Middle East that suited them. But I suppose it's so much easier to always think of your Enemy as being utterly incomprehensible and completely unprovoked evil, isn't it. Edited by Valdemar the Great
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and then

Because that is simply an utter denial of responsibility. "They: incomprehensible evil, us: have never done anything at all to encourage any kind of resentment of us" is purely and simply hiding your head in the sand. They would not have decided to make war on the rest of the world if the "rest of the World", i.e,. America and the countries that have always gone along with it, hadn't had a policy for decades of thoroughly ****ing up any countries in the Middle East that suited them. But I suppose it's so much easier to always think of your Enemy as being utterly incomprehensible and completely unprovoked evil, isn't it.

You talk a lot but you never seem to listen. That is a failing of the young. At this point it doesn't matter who or why, placing blame is kind of childish when it comes in place of working for necessary solutions. You act as though no other governments have ever existed that raped, pillaged and took advantage. You are more intelligent than that so your proclivity to indulge in the blame game must be a personal act of enjoyment. You also want to cast your opposite in a debate or discussion as simple minded. It's a backhand way of being condescending and after awhile it just gets trite and tiring. I'll use the analogy again. One does not have an arson investigation while the house is still burning - not if it's YOUR house and you're still inside. There are some acts that are not justifiable regardless the provocation. And frankly, this gang of thugs who are giving vent to the very worst of Islamic teachings aren't really concerned (IMO) with the history of whatever depredations you feel the west have sown. They want POWER. You have a habit - along with another I can think of especially - to consistently say things that seem to support these thugs, or at the very least to advocate for attempting to understand why the poor guys do as they do. As they or others like them begin to impact closer to where you actually live, you might want to watch doing that so openly. Just some advice to save you some broken bones and stitches later.

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Jeremiah65

We can't stay out of the middle east because of corporate interests...imho.

These global mega-corporations are the same ones that make donations to election campaigns...they WILL have their interests pursued or they will back the next candidate that will push their agenda.

We have known for a very long time about the big oil interests...but let us not forget that Afghanistan just happens to be sitting on the largest lithium deposit in the world...hmm...why are we there again?...oh...terrorists...right.

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Space Commander Travis

You talk a lot but you never seem to listen. That is a failing of the young. At this point it doesn't matter who or why, placing blame is kind of childish when it comes in place of working for necessary solutions. You act as though no other governments have ever existed that raped, pillaged and took advantage. You are more intelligent than that so your proclivity to indulge in the blame game must be a personal act of enjoyment. You also want to cast your opposite in a debate or discussion as simple minded. It's a backhand way of being condescending and after awhile it just gets trite and tiring. I'll use the analogy again. One does not have an arson investigation while the house is still burning - not if it's YOUR house and you're still inside. There are some acts that are not justifiable regardless the provocation. And frankly, this gang of thugs who are giving vent to the very worst of Islamic teachings aren't really concerned (IMO) with the history of whatever depredations you feel the west have sown. They want POWER. You have a habit - along with another I can think of especially - to consistently say things that seem to support these thugs, or at the very least to advocate for attempting to understand why the poor guys do as they do. As they or others like them begin to impact closer to where you actually live, you might want to watch doing that so openly. Just some advice to save you some broken bones and stitches later.

You don't, as you appear to, seem to think I'm trying to excuse or support these things do you? Heavens. The reason I keep going on about how they didn't arise out of nowhere is the hope that one day the people who always bang the drums so loudly might one day begin to wonder if constant and never-ending military intervention might perhaps encourage these situations to develop, that people might perhaps begin to try think of ways to stop it happening in the first place, not simply respond to it when it does happen all the time, which is just a cycle that goes on and one perpetually.

And you say that I never seem to listen?

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regeneratia

Why? Because Israel and Saudi Arabia don't want us out of the Middle East.

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