Blood Found On Wilson`s Gun ,Car

[+DieChecker]

Really, you know that law. Would you mind referencing it with a link. I know, as usual....Probably way too busy as usual when specifics are requested......

Well, I looked into several Missouri State Statutes and I couldn't find a law that applies, so I guess you are right here.

He was an accomplice to the recent robbery though. So he did have a crime he could have surrendered himself for. But, he didn't need to....

If you would actually be the one to take a minute and listen to what is going on and not just what you want to hear. The call, "Send another car" is made by an officer who arrived later. Not Wilson while backing up ! Try looking at the time stamp in the video ! That's where I'm getting my information. Try looking at it.

OK, I'm not sure what video you are looking at. The link I posted had 3 Sound files and 2 videos. The two videos only showed the police station after the shooting. The third sound file says "send another car", and has not time stamp on it that I can see.

The link again...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympleii/videos-radio-calls-offer-new-glimpse-into-michael-brown-shoo

Are you looking at a different site?

Well now, you know, you might have me there. What I was looking at is the Police Chief's initial statement that Wilson didn't know about the robbery at the time of the incident. I simply forgot all of that had changed with the second version. Perhaps it would help if I knew which version were you referring to ?

Well, you've already established that the Chief of Police is a bald faced liar, so why would you put so much weight on what he said early on? We never have heard from Wilson directly....

Do you see that you manage to contradict yourself in the same post. I wonder why those contractors didn't "surrender" themselves immediately in accordance with the "law" as you propose Johnson should have done ?????? They were probably also guilty of talking to people about what they saw. They need to be ready to do some hard time over that for sure.

Funny.

There it is two pictures of a man in the crowd. Everyone should be able to tell by those two pictures just how he's then the person responsible for any unrest because of the situation.

I know you are not ignorant about this guy, he was talking to all the witnesses immediately after the shooting and then made a lot of trouble during the demonstrations. He intended and very likely did, influence what stories were told to the police.

He went to the hospital TWO hours later !!!! Do you have the slightest concept of just how irregular that is when injury is claimed ? No "official paperwork." Reminds me of "We don't need any stinking badges." And since your so knowledgeable regarding legal requirements perhaps you might pause here and realize a legal requirement was violated by those actions.

Do you work for the state of Missouri? Or worked with Missouri police departments? How are you expert on what is required in Missouri?

Can you post that legal requirement? If not, then does it exist?

Maybe not but it would take my thoughts to why did they find it necessary to exaggerate and/or lie about Wilson's state of "injury."

That calm enough for you ? Perhaps it's actually that you would prefer making negative reference to my posts rather than facing things your position can't support with fact.

What facts have you posted?

I do find it fishy that the Chief of police acted so strangely and that Wilson didn't go to the hospital immediately, and that the police didn't interview anyone immediately, and the Wilson (and the PD) didn't fill out a full report. All that smells bad to me also. I've said so more then once, if not in this particular thread.

[docyabut2]

I do find it fishy that the Chief of police acted so strangely and that Wilson didn't go to the hospital immediately, and that the police didn't interview anyone immediately, and the Wilson (and the PD) didn't fill out a full report. All that smells bad to me also. I've said so more then once, if not in this particular thread.

Its not fishey, Zimmerman went the police station and then to the hospital:( its only naturel a cop would.

Edited November 18, 2014 by docyabut2

[+DieChecker]

Its not fishey, Zimmerman went the police station and then to the hospital:( its only naturel a cop would.

Depends on the injury. If Wilson had been shot, or had a broken bone, he'd likely have taken an ambulance to the hospital. That he didn't probably means he wasn't hurt too bad, which is not what the Chief of Police said at first about Wilson. Thus the fishyness.

[Vincennes]

Well, I looked into several Missouri State Statutes and I couldn't find a law that applies, so I guess you are right here.

He was an accomplice to the recent robbery though. So he did have a crime he could have surrendered himself for. But, he didn't need to....

"He was an accomplice to a robbery." There is nothing that substantiates that statement. The video in the store shows Johnson simply standing behind Brown, Brown handing him something with Johnson placing it BACK on the counter before leaving the store. For all you know Brown could have simply handed Johnson something that the clerk had gotten that he knew Johnson wanted to buy, so he handed it to him in order that when Johnson's turn came in line, he could pay for it. However, you stand most ready to brand him as an "accomplice" to whatever. How about the person standing behind Johnson. Do you think he might have been the mastermind ? Certainly, using your logic, he/she is guilty too.

Did it ever strike you that we have heard NOTHING from the people in the store that day ? The clerk who was shoved by Brown, nothing ???? Not even the mention of an attempt of an interview. How about the fact that according to the "sources close to the investigation" the actual call re. the shoplifting didn't come from store employees but rather from another shopper. That's about the strangest thing I ever heard in my life. You have pointed out again and again how unlawful and disrespectful the people in that neighborhood are and yet one of them takes out his phone and reports the theft of a $4.99 box of cigars so that the management of the store doesn't have to ??? Who actually did call the police ??? Odd, just odd.

OK, I'm not sure what video you are looking at. The link I posted had 3 Sound files and 2 videos. The two videos only showed the police station after the shooting. The third sound file says "send another car", and has not time stamp on it that I can see.

The link again...

http://www.buzzfeed....hael-brown-shoo

Are you looking at a different site?

No, I looked at that site and compared it to other timelines, etc. It was a statement from one of those "police sources" that talked about the fact the frequency on Wilson's radio had been changed so his request actually did not come in with the other broadcasts. In the audio ( What good is a picture of the sound waves of an audio ? Here again, that's actually funny ) when the unidentified voice asks for more cars, there is a woman crying in the background. It was from a backup car and the event had already taken place. I will pull some links on that.

Well, you've already established that the Chief of Police is a bald faced liar, so why would you put so much weight on what he said early on? We never have heard from Wilson directly....

Why put so much weight on what the police chief said ??? I trust you were laughing when you posted that. Because it would be the chief of police that should have had ALL of the answers. 'Cuz that would be his fricking job. A real point of interest here is that we now know that Wilson spent more than two hours in and around the police station before going to the hospital. Yet, the chief didn't seem to have knowledge the next day of the "story" that was going to go down re. Wilson's knowledge and subsequent actions. Two hours and the chief hadn't asked if Wilson thought Brown was a robbery suspect or didn't know the reason for Wilson's extreme response ???? That's beyond belief.

I know you are not ignorant about this guy, he was talking to all the witnesses immediately after the shooting and then made a lot of trouble during the demonstrations. He intended and very likely did, influence what stories were told to the police.

I understand that is how your mind sees things.

Do you work for the state of Missouri? Or worked with Missouri police departments? How are you expert on what is required in Missouri?

Can you post that legal requirement? If not, then does it exist?

I'm not sure here what exactly you are questioning me on. Obviously, you are not familiar with Workmen's Compensation which is regulated by Federal requirements - Not each individual state !

All you have to do is use common sense to realize if that police department thought for a minute one of their officers had received any type of serious injury, the would have been transported lights and sirens to the hospital. And you can add to that the chief of police would have known the minute his examination was concluded just what his injuries were.

I do find it fishy that the Chief of police acted so strangely and that Wilson didn't go to the hospital immediately, and that the police didn't interview anyone immediately, and the Wilson (and the PD) didn't fill out a full report. All that smells bad to me also. I've said so more then once, if not in this particular thread.

I'm glad you see those issues ! Now the rule you need to consider is, nobody does anything like that without a reason.

[Vincennes]

Die:

Here is a link from the St. Louis newspaper, re. the released audio timeline. Per this article, you were correct, Wilson did advise that he was stopping two and asked for another car (????) at 12:02 pm

However, if you will read further down the article, it explains that Wilson's other purported calls are unverified as his radio had (conveniently) been knocked off the proper frequency.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/multimedia/special/darren-wilson-s-radio-calls-show-fatal-encounter-was-brief/html_79c17aed-0dbe-514d-ba32-bad908056790.html

[Regi]

Vin, that the info. is now that Wilson was aware of that store incident supports my initial impression of that circumstance: that Wilson re-approached with the intent of detaining Brown and Johnson, right?

[Vincennes]

Vin, that the info. is now that Wilson was aware of that store incident supports my initial impression of that circumstance: that Wilson re-approached with the intent of detaining Brown and Johnson, right?

Yep, I do believe that is the story de jour

It just scrambles my brain though that at that point the Ferguson police seem to have been sending multiple cars about the "scene" looking for a kid who had "heisted" a $5.00 package of cigars and pushed a sales clerk out of his way at the door. It's like, "Wha ~?~?~ They got no other crimes in Ferguson big enough to warrant their attention" ???

So it seems rather that Wilson casts his eagle eye on what he thinks might just be the dastardly duo and immediately he calls for BACK UP right then and there ! For crying out loud ! Here I am in Podunk and the two times my house has been broken into our Sheriff's department really seemed bored when taking the report but not Wilson. He feels they are going to need two cars to control this situation. As I said earlier, it seems "very precognitive on Wilson's part" isn't it ???? Then, although he has felt the need for assistance, he doesn't wait for a response from his own dispatch ???? No, Brave Heart proceeds to back up with such zest he almost run them; then, leaving his car blocking both lanes of the street, he finds the need to jump out and confront right then and there ????? All of this over his suspicion he has the perpetrators of a $5.00 convenience store heist at hand in the middle of the street in broad daylight ? Look at that aerial, exactly where did Wilson think they were going to run away to with their ill gotten smokes ? Further on down the street, onto one of the lawns ? Because according to that audio another car answered almost immediately they were at hand an on their way.

I have noticed something else repeatedly in the videos both those taken by the witnesses at the scene and now the videos from the police station / hospital. No one is standing with Wilson in any of the videos from the crime scene. No one is walking with Wilson leaving the police station. I believe they say that the two men with him are an attorney and a representative from the police union. Both of these men are two feet ahead or behind him. Both of these men should have been their to support Wilson who, per the chief, is without a doubt injured ...... Yet neither offers any shoulder to shoulder comfort or support for a wounded brother ?????

Odd, just odd .....

Edited November 18, 2014 by Vincennes

[Yamato]

http://youtu.be/-fVDGu82FeQ

[aztek]

during first days, there was a recording, showed people's reaction seconds after MB was killed., the guy in the video, who saw it happen, was talking how MB "bum rushed the officer", that means full head on attack, with your hands in front of you. some may see it as hands were up, but in reality they are not up to surrender, but to block your body, that is why most of the bullets hit his forearms, no way it would happen if he actually had his hands up. cops always shoot center mass, exactly where MB hands were, and exactly why bullets hit where they hit. i'm no fan of cops by any means, but in this case looks like cop was in the right.

Edited November 18, 2014 by aztek

[+DieChecker]

"He was an accomplice to a robbery." There is nothing that substantiates that statement. The video in the store shows Johnson simply standing behind Brown, Brown handing him something with Johnson placing it BACK on the counter before leaving the store. For all you know Brown could have simply handed Johnson something that the clerk had gotten that he knew Johnson wanted to buy, so he handed it to him in order that when Johnson's turn came in line, he could pay for it. However, you stand most ready to brand him as an "accomplice" to whatever. How about the person standing behind Johnson. Do you think he might have been the mastermind ? Certainly, using your logic, he/she is guilty too.

Did it ever strike you that we have heard NOTHING from the people in the store that day ? The clerk who was shoved by Brown, nothing ???? Not even the mention of an attempt of an interview. How about the fact that according to the "sources close to the investigation" the actual call re. the shoplifting didn't come from store employees but rather from another shopper. That's about the strangest thing I ever heard in my life. You have pointed out again and again how unlawful and disrespectful the people in that neighborhood are and yet one of them takes out his phone and reports the theft of a $4.99 box of cigars so that the management of the store doesn't have to ??? Who actually did call the police ??? Odd, just odd.

I'm very offended that you are making assertions about me that I never posted, and putting words in my mouth and thoughts in my head. It is very disrespectful to make wild claims.

Regardless of who called the police, the police did go to the Shoplifting Call and did get the video and take statements. That Johnson didn't take anything would not at that time have been known. He was a suspect.

No, I looked at that site and compared it to other timelines, etc. It was a statement from one of those "police sources" that talked about the fact the frequency on Wilson's radio had been changed so his request actually did not come in with the other broadcasts. In the audio ( What good is a picture of the sound waves of an audio ? Here again, that's actually funny ) when the unidentified voice asks for more cars, there is a woman crying in the background. It was from a backup car and the event had already taken place. I will pull some links on that.

So, the last couple posts did show that Wilson did call for backup. It was only after he wrestled with Brown through the window that his radio got off channel.

Why put so much weight on what the police chief said ??? I trust you were laughing when you posted that. Because it would be the chief of police that should have had ALL of the answers. 'Cuz that would be his fricking job. A real point of interest here is that we now know that Wilson spent more than two hours in and around the police station before going to the hospital. Yet, the chief didn't seem to have knowledge the next day of the "story" that was going to go down re. Wilson's knowledge and subsequent actions. Two hours and the chief hadn't asked if Wilson thought Brown was a robbery suspect or didn't know the reason for Wilson's extreme response ???? That's beyond belief.

So I think you can't have it both ways. You can't use the Chief of Police as a good witness for one quote, and then totally discount what he says somewhere else. If he's a suspected lying witness, then we can't use anything he said as evidence.

I understand that is how your mind sees things.

Yes, it seems clear to me that Anthony Shahid (The green shirt guy) (I dare you to google him and say he is just a friendly neighborhood fellow), was there within minutes and purposefully went around speaking to people and collecting the witnesses and telling them not to trust the police, because they murdered Brown. It is fellows like him that have Saint Louis in an uproar, as they stir the Racism Pot for their own glory and importance.

I'm not sure here what exactly you are questioning me on. Obviously, you are not familiar with Workmen's Compensation which is regulated by Federal requirements - Not each individual state !

All you have to do is use common sense to realize if that police department thought for a minute one of their officers had received any type of serious injury, the would have been transported lights and sirens to the hospital. And you can add to that the chief of police would have known the minute his examination was concluded just what his injuries were.

Please post a reference to the Federal law regarding Workman's Comp where the injured party must be moved to the Hospital as soon as possible.

I did find this on the Federal Department of Labor website....

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/workcomp/

Individuals injured on the job while employed by private companies or state and local government agencies should contact their state workers' compensation board.

On the Missouri State Workers Comp site it says....

http://labor.mo.gov/DWC/Injured_Workers

Report your injury immediately to your employer or supervisor. Failure to report your injury to your employer within 30 days may jeopardize your ability to receive workers’ compensation benefits.

I don't see anything saying that going to the hospital two hours after the injury means you are disqualified.

I'm glad you see those issues ! Now the rule you need to consider is, nobody does anything like that without a reason.

It seems to me there are two main choices involved here.

1) Wilson told the two to get out of the street. Wilson recognized them from the description over the radio and confronted them. Mike Brown attacked and wrestled Wilson for his gun. He was shot. He ran off. He turned around and Wilson shot him.

2) Wilson told the two to get out of the street. Wilson recognized them from the description over the radio and confronted them. Wilson pulled his gun and intended to kill both of them from his car. Brown lunged to try to save his life and was shot. Brown then ran off and surrendered, but was shot anyway and died.

In choice one we have to ask... What was Brown's motivation in trying to attack the officer in the car? Did he intend to get the gun and kill the officer? This doesn't make a lot of sense.

In choice two we have to ask... What was Wilson's motivation in trying to kill the two young black men? How could he possibly have thought he would get away with it? Simply, he couldn't. Making this option make even less sense then the first one.

Supposedly Wilson has some links to openly racist officers in his past. But then Brown roughed up a store clerk just minutes before.....

It is a hard call.

[+DieChecker]

during first days, there was a recording, showed people's reaction seconds after MB was killed., the guy in the video, who saw it happen, was talking how MB "bum rushed the officer", that means full head on attack, with your hands in front of you. some may see it as hands were up, but in reality they are not up to surrender, but to block your body, that is why most of the bullets hit his forearms, no way it would happen if he actually had his hands up. cops always shoot center mass, exactly where MB hands were, and exactly why bullets hit where they hit. i'm no fan of cops by any means, but in this case looks like cop was in the right.

It was also interesting how at least one witness, when on a TV show, was throwing punches when describing what Brown was doing in the fight in the car. With his arm going back and punching forward, not the flailing that would be expected of someone trying to escape, but the actions of someone who is attacking. He was doing it unconsciously of course, and tried to deny that he'd done it at all. But there it was recorded on TV.

Edited November 18, 2014 by DieChecker

[Regi]

during first days, there was a recording, showed people's reaction seconds after MB was killed., the guy in the video, who saw it happen, was talking how MB "bum rushed the officer", that means full head on attack, with your hands in front of you. some may see it as hands were up, but in reality they are not up to surrender, but to block your body, that is why most of the bullets hit his forearms, no way it would happen if he actually had his hands up. cops always shoot center mass, exactly where MB hands were, and exactly why bullets hit where they hit. i'm no fan of cops by any means, but in this case looks like cop was in the right.

I'm not clear on what you just described, but according to Baden, there was one wound to the back of the forearm, which he stated could have come from behind. He stated that if the arm had been across the body, the bullet from that wound would have entered the abdomen, which it didn't.

(This info. was just on Fox News where Baden is a correspondent.)

[aztek]

but according to Baden, there was one wound to the back of the forearm, which he stated could have come from behind.

baden can go and suck it. he is full of it.

we know full well which bullet hole is an exit wound and which is an entrance, and you would assume medical examiner would know for that a fact, so this "could have come from behind". tells me he does not know what he is talking about.

another 2 things, he said he did not have access to mb clothing, that is where gun powder traces are. so he could not have seen whole story, 2 he was hired by mb family, to contradict police autopsy report, and since he was missing key peices. his report is about as useless as it gets.

Edited November 18, 2014 by aztek

[aztek]

I'm not clear on what you just described,

too bad, that 1 withness account, cought on tape, contradicts entire "hand up" b.s. not just that but it is also suppored by actuall evidence.

[Regi]

we know full well which bullet hole is an exit wound and which is an entrance, and you would assume medical examiner would know for that a fact, so this "could have come from behind". tells me he does not know what he is talking about.

That's common language for an ME. They interpret and not every finding can be conclusive.

[Vincennes]

baden can go and suck it. he is full of it.

we know full well which bullet hole is an exit wound and which is an entrance, and you would assume medical examiner would know for that a fact, so this "could have come from behind". tells me he does not know what he is talking about.

another 2 things, he said he did not have access to mb clothing, that is where gun powder traces are. so he could not have seen whole story, 2 he was hired by mb family, to contradict police autopsy report, and since he was missing key peices. his report is about as useless as it gets.

Even in view of your vulgarities, I, like Regi, am going to try and give you another intelligent response.

The Ferguson Police were the ones who had taken full control of Michael's clothing. They were the ones who denied Dr. Baden access to whatever evidence might be on it in order to obstruct him from completing his investigation. Since his request seems to have been repeated in testimony to the Grand Jury under oath, it's validity would be established. (I'm saying "seems" because all we have are "sources close to the investigation." Again, due to the Ferguson Police Dept. and it's authorities. )

Why would they do that ? If their own MEs conclusions were sincerely felt to be accurate and complete, why wouldn't they have wanted Dr. Baden to be able to establish that with his second opinion ? Why would they find it necessary to obstruct the peace it might have given Michael's family to know the examinations concurred in opinions? When you think about that, it's a pretty callous thing to do to any grieving family.

What could have been their motivation? I'll give you one and that's because they were more than a little afraid Dr. Baden's examination might just render a very different conclusion and they wanted to make certain that didn't happen.

Just as a note, perhaps you might do yourself well to take a minute and look up Dr. Baden's credentials and the regard his opinions hold in the medical community. It might help you to understand how ludicrous you post was . " Understand" being the operative word here and perhaps the real problem area.

[Vincennes]

I'm very offended that you are making assertions about me that I never posted, and putting words in my mouth and thoughts in my head. It is very disrespectful to make wild claims.

I honestly don't have a clue what you are talking about here.

This is your post that I was responding to:

Posted Yesterday, 11:18 PM

He was an accomplice to the recent robbery though. So he did have a crime he could have surrendered himself for. But, he didn't need to....

So how was I putting words in your mouth ? True, I did quote just a part of what you said. If you are serious that you feel I changed your meaning, please let me know how . If I did that I apologize. You and I have gone round and round before on multiple issues and I will say that, although I think somehow your life experience seems to have been very limited, in spite of that, every once in a while you actually seem to be open to understand other viewpoints.

That said........

Regardless of who called the police, the police did go to the Shoplifting Call and did get the video and take statements. That Johnson didn't take anything would not at that time have been known. He was a suspect.

Here is another oddity that I actually checked out again today. That initial report of the item taken was shown as a "box" of cigars, valued at approx. $50.00. That seems reasonable as to the cost of a box of cigars. However, if you pull up that video and look at it, what Johnson has in his hand, the "box" of cigars and what also looks to me like a small package of licorice. What he is holding seems to be a "box" of ten Swishers which is comparable to buying a pack of cigarettes only cheaper. I checked today the cost of that "box." My gas station has them on sale right now for $3.00. Did all of these actions and reactions actually go down over a $3.00 package because that is what is in Johnson's hand walking out ????? Okay, no it was because of the confrontation with the clerk at the door ??? We don't actually have any way of knowing what was being said. It could have been something as simple as, "I am 18 and I am darn well old enough to buy these, get out of my way." We just plain don't know. Why might we want to know what exactly the exchange was about. Well, in my case, I want to know because they don't seem to have gotten the price of the "stolen" item right. Is their rendition of anything else more correct or is it also exaggerated also ?

So, the last couple posts did show that Wilson did call for backup. It was only after he wrestled with Brown through the window that his radio got off channel.

They are grabbing, wrestling over a $3.00 pack of cigars ???? Good Lord ! The only part of that I do believe is that Wilson initially drove by after telling them "Get the fuxk out of the street." Why do I believe that ? Because it's honestly how LE talk to indigent kids. You have to talk the talk to get their attention. But these two "suspects" are by all accounts WALKING down the middle of the street. I have seen so many "confrontations" of this type between LE and kids. What a more reasonable response from Wilson should have been, park his car at the curb, get out and say something like, "you guys been shopping at Slappy's convenience store lately ???? Whatcha' got in your hand there ? "You know right here you're made" . "Come on, we need to talk."

No experienced police officer would begin the cavorting, screeching tires, flinging open doors, grabbing....... It's not reasonable !!!

So I think you can't have it both ways. You can't use the Chief of Police as a good witness for one quote, and then totally discount what he says somewhere else. If he's a suspected lying witness, then we can't use anything he said as evidence.

That is the problem the police chief made for himself. It's not one that I made for him. You need to understand any comments I make that give him any further regard than that of a liar are totally sarcastic.

Yes, it seems clear to me that Anthony Shahid (The green shirt guy) (I dare you to google him and say he is just a friendly neighborhood fellow), was there within minutes and purposefully went around speaking to people and collecting the witnesses and telling them not to trust the police, because they murdered Brown. It is fellows like him that have Saint Louis in an uproar, as they stir the Racism Pot for their own glory and importance.

With all due disregard for Anthony Shahid, it's something like the police chief. Part of the problem just might be that perhaps it's the fact one of their officers fired 11 or so rounds from a Glock down a street and into a regular neighborhood setting and fired multiple rounds into someone with on lookers screaming that the victims hands were in the air that gave Mr. Shahid his issues. You've mentioned multiple times that Johnson "ran" after that happened. Well let me tell you in no uncertain terms, had I been standing beside Mr. Johnson when that went down, I would have passed him like he was standing still !!!!!!!!!

My comments on what you just said re. "for their own glory and importance" will come later.

Please post a reference to the Federal law regarding Workman's Comp where the injured party must be moved to the Hospital as soon as possible.

I did find this on the Federal Department of Labor website....

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/workcomp/

On the Missouri State Workers Comp site it says....

http://labor.mo.gov/...Injured_Workers

I don't really feel like playing the game here. Why don't you try just plain using your common sense ! As I have tried to explain to you before these regulations are made for the protection of BOTH the employer and the employee. No, there probably isn't a specified time requirement but can you envision the problem of a law suit by the employee on the employer if things are not put into factual order just as quickly as possible. You realize, we are in the age of the law suit. Working for the state, I know that was one of their first considerations for their own protection. What exactly happened, who witnessed the event, etc, etc. etc. In this case when you are talking about a work force that faces the possibility of severe injury on a daily basis, getting proper medical evaluation and treatment asap is a prominent consideration in everyone's mind. Will the be off work ? For how long does the dr. estimate it will take to recover ? Are other medical opinions needed ? Because as a police officer, they have to know asap will they be on duty tomorrow or not for four months. How long does their position have to be filled ??? I realize this is probably not an everyday happening checking dies but it is with law enforcement.

I don't see anything saying that going to the hospital two hours after the injury means you are disqualified.

As I have explained until my fingers are almost numb, disqualification is not the initial issue. However, and a big however it is, I have known of LE that are quite capable of "milking" a so called injury for each and every hour they can get out of it.

It seems to me there are two main choices involved here.

1) Wilson told the two to get out of the street. Wilson recognized them from the description over the radio and confronted them. Mike Brown attacked and wrestled Wilson for his gun. He was shot. He ran off. He turned around and Wilson shot him.

2) Wilson told the two to get out of the street. Wilson recognized them from the description over the radio and confronted them. Wilson pulled his gun and intended to kill both of them from his car. Brown lunged to try to save his life and was shot. Brown then ran off and surrendered, but was shot anyway and died.

I think I've already answered this but I have trouble containing myself from pointing out again, these are the options resulting from the theft of $3 pack of smokes ???? Bizzare !!!

In choice one we have to ask... What was Brown's motivation in trying to attack the officer in the car? Did he intend to get the gun and kill the officer? This doesn't make a lot of sense.

In choice two we have to ask... What was Wilson's motivation in trying to kill the two young black men? How could he possibly have thought he would get away with it? Simply, he couldn't. Making this option make even less sense then the first one.

I think Wilson's motivation might just have been positive attention seeking in a negative manner. I've been reprimanded before about bringing up Wilson's own personal history but I truly think this is a psychologically wounded child. His motivations stemmed from his high school years

Supposedly Wilson has some links to openly racist officers in his past. But then Brown roughed up a store clerk just minutes before.....

It is a hard call.

The fact that you mention here that Wilson had links to openly racist officers does bring me to respect again that, in spite of yourself sometimes, you really do look at things.

It's not a hard call, to me it's an obvious call. That psychologically wounded kid in high school who was humiliated again and again even in the press by the fact his mother had stolen the money that bought the athletic equipment to the one sport he was at least kind of good at, needed desperately to prove himself and to have someone he could look down on. He was so motivated to right how he was viewed as an adult he actually went back to his high school neighborhood in his UNIFORM ! But he knows know he isn't the lowest on the totem pole there is an entire group of people he has advantage over. He seeks those that reinforce that need in him. Then they give him a "commendation" for a "sole handed" incident in which he has triumphed as "the good." (Another undocumented incident no less) He has arrived at last but he's not satisfied with just one commendation, he knows he can achieve more and from there he looks for the opportunity.

That, my dear, is exactly why you see no one standing beside him at the crime scene. It's why even the police union officer doesn't pause half a step to support him and why his head is hanging. Ferguson actually knows by then what he is and I will give it to them for wanting distance. I can't blame them at all

Edited November 19, 2014 by Vincennes

[FurthurBB]

I honestly don't have a clue what you are talking about here.

This is your post that I was responding to:

Posted Yesterday, 11:18 PM

He was an accomplice to the recent robbery though. So he did have a crime he could have surrendered himself for. But, he didn't need to....

So how was I putting words in your mouth ? True, I did quote just a part of what you said. If you are serious that you feel I changed your meaning, please let me know how . If I did that I apologize. You and I have gone round and round before on multiple issues and I will say that, although I think somehow your life experience seems to have been very limited, in spite of that, every once in a while you actually seem to be open to understand other viewpoints.

That said........

Here is another oddity that I actually checked out again today. That initial report of the item taken was shown as a "box" of cigars, valued at approx. $50.00. That seems reasonable as to the cost of a box of cigars. However, if you pull up that video and look at it, what Johnson has in his hand, the "box" of cigars and what also looks to me like a small package of licorice. What he is holding seems to be a "box" of ten Swishers which is comparable to buying a pack of cigarettes only cheaper. I checked today the cost of that "box." My gas station has them on sale right now for $3.00. Did all of these actions and reactions actually go down over a $3.00 package because that is what is in Johnson's hand walking out ????? Okay, no it was because of the confrontation with the clerk at the door ??? We don't actually have any way of knowing what was being said. It could have been something as simple as, "I am 18 and I am darn well old enough to buy these, get out of my way." We just plain don't know. Why might we want to know what exactly the exchange was about. Well, in my case, I want to know because they don't seem to have gotten the price of the "stolen" item right. Is their rendition of anything else more correct or is it also exaggerated also ?

They are grabbing, wrestling over a $3.00 pack of cigars ???? Good Lord ! The only part of that I do believe is that Wilson initially drove by after telling them "Get the fuxk out of the street." Why do I believe that ? Because it's honestly how LE talk to indigent kids. You have to talk the talk to get their attention. But these two "suspects" are by all accounts WALKING down the middle of the street. I have seen so many "confrontations" of this type between LE and kids. What a more reasonable response from Wilson should have been, park his car at the curb, get out and say something like, "you guys been shopping at Slappy's convenience store lately ???? Whatcha' got in your hand there ? "You know right here you're made" . "Come on, we need to talk."

No experienced police officer would begin the cavorting, screeching tires, flinging open doors, grabbing....... It's not reasonable !!!

That is the problem the police chief made for himself. It's not one that I made for him. You need to understand any comments I make that give him any further regard than that of a liar are totally sarcastic.

With all due disregard for Anthony Shahid, it's something like the police chief. Part of the problem just might be that perhaps it's the fact one of their officers fired 11 or so rounds from a Glock down a street and into a regular neighborhood setting and fired multiple rounds into someone with on lookers screaming that the victims hands were in the air that gave Mr. Shahid his issues. You've mentioned multiple times that Johnson "ran" after that happened. Well let me tell you in no uncertain terms, had I been standing beside Mr. Johnson when that went down, I would have passed him like he was standing still !!!!!!!!!

My comments on what you just said re. "for their own glory and importance" will come later.

I don't really feel like playing the game here. Why don't you try just plain using your common sense ! As I have tried to explain to you before these regulations are made for the protection of BOTH the employer and the employee. No, there probably isn't a specified time requirement but can you envision the problem of a law suit by the employee on the employer if things are not put into factual order just as quickly as possible. You realize, we are in the age of the law suit. Working for the state, I know that was one of their first considerations for their own protection. What exactly happened, who witnessed the event, etc, etc. etc. In this case when you are talking about a work force that faces the possibility of severe injury on a daily basis, getting proper medical evaluation and treatment asap is a prominent consideration in everyone's mind. Will the be off work ? For how long does the dr. estimate it will take to recover ? Are other medical opinions needed ? Because as a police officer, they have to know asap will they be on duty tomorrow or not for four months. How long does their position have to be filled ??? I realize this is probably not an everyday happening checking dies but it is with law enforcement.

As I have explained until my fingers are almost numb, disqualification is not the initial issue. However, and a big however it is, I have known of LE that are quite capable of "milking" a so called injury for each and every hour they can get out of it.

I think I've already answered this but I have trouble containing myself from pointing out again, these are the options resulting from the theft of $3 pack of smokes ???? Bizzare !!!

I think Wilson's motivation might just have been positive attention seeking in a negative manner. I've been reprimanded before about bringing up Wilson's own personal history but I truly think this is a psychologically wounded child. His motivations stemmed from his high school years

The fact that you mention here that Wilson had links to openly racist officers does bring me to respect again that, in spite of yourself sometimes, you really do look at things.

It's not a hard call, to me it's an obvious call. That psychologically wounded kid in high school who was humiliated again and again even in the press by the fact his mother had stolen the money that bought the athletic equipment to the one sport he was at least kind of good at, needed desperately to prove himself and to have someone he could look down on. He was so motivated to right how he was viewed as an adult he actually went back to his high school neighborhood in his UNIFORM ! But he knows know he isn't the lowest on the totem pole there is an entire group of people he has advantage over. He seeks those that reinforce that need in him. Then they give him a "commendation" for a "sole handed" incident in which he has triumphed as "the good." (Another undocumented incident no less) He has arrived at last but he's not satisfied with just one commendation, he knows he can achieve more and from there he looks for the opportunity.

That, my dear, is exactly why you see no one standing beside him at the crime scene. It's why even the police union officer doesn't pause half a step to support him and why his head is hanging. Ferguson actually knows by then what he is and I will give it to them for wanting distance. I can't blame them at all

That case he got a commindation for was thrown out.

[+DieChecker]

Here is another oddity that I actually checked out again today. That initial report of the item taken was shown as a "box" of cigars, valued at approx. $50.00. That seems reasonable as to the cost of a box of cigars. However, if you pull up that video and look at it, what Johnson has in his hand, the "box" of cigars and what also looks to me like a small package of licorice. What he is holding seems to be a "box" of ten Swishers which is comparable to buying a pack of cigarettes only cheaper. I checked today the cost of that "box." My gas station has them on sale right now for $3.00. Did all of these actions and reactions actually go down over a $3.00 package because that is what is in Johnson's hand walking out ????? Okay, no it was because of the confrontation with the clerk at the door ??? We don't actually have any way of knowing what was being said. It could have been something as simple as, "I am 18 and I am darn well old enough to buy these, get out of my way." We just plain don't know. Why might we want to know what exactly the exchange was about. Well, in my case, I want to know because they don't seem to have gotten the price of the "stolen" item right. Is their rendition of anything else more correct or is it also exaggerated also ?

I would agree with you, that if we are going to judge what happened during the shooting based on what happened at the store, we should know that whole story. Johnson should be able to tell us.

I found this just now....

http://www.mediaite....ion-to-robbery/

Michael Brown’s Friend Will Not Be Charged in Relation to Robbery

Dorian Johnson himself confessed to his lawyer that he helped Mike Brown steal cigars. So he even admits it.

http://www.ksdk.com/...bbery/14118769/

FERGUSON, Mo. (AP) - The friend who was with Michael Brown when he was shot and killed by a police officer near St. Louis over the weekend is reportedly confirming that he and Brown had taken part in the theft of cigars from a convenience store that day.

That word comes from the attorney for Dorian Johnson, speaking to MSNBC. Police in Ferguson had earlier announced that Brown was suspected of taking cigars from the convenience store in what was described as a "strong-arm robbery."

They are grabbing, wrestling over a $3.00 pack of cigars ???? Good Lord ! The only part of that I do believe is that Wilson initially drove by after telling them "Get the fuxk out of the street." Why do I believe that ? Because it's honestly how LE talk to indigent kids. You have to talk the talk to get their attention. But these two "suspects" are by all accounts WALKING down the middle of the street. I have seen so many "confrontations" of this type between LE and kids. What a more reasonable response from Wilson should have been, park his car at the curb, get out and say something like, "you guys been shopping at Slappy's convenience store lately ???? Whatcha' got in your hand there ? "You know right here you're made" . "Come on, we need to talk."

No experienced police officer would begin the cavorting, screeching tires, flinging open doors, grabbing....... It's not reasonable !!!

I agree Wilson way overreacted. But it is clear that Brown and Johnson were in fact walking down the middle of the road.

Brown, 18, and Johnson, 22, are walking in the middle of the street, heading, Johnson says, to Johnson's house, when a Ferguson police officer confronts them.

The officer tells the young men either "Get the **** on the sidewalk" or "Get the **** out of the street," according to Johnson's accounts to CNN and other news outlets.

The young men reply that they are "not but a minute away from our destination, and we would shortly be out of the street," Johnson told CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/i...brown-timeline/

I don't really feel like playing the game here. Why don't you try just plain using your common sense ! As I have tried to explain to you before these regulations are made for the protection of BOTH the employer and the employee. No, there probably isn't a specified time requirement but can you envision the problem of a law suit by the employee on the employer if things are not put into factual order just as quickly as possible. You realize, we are in the age of the law suit. Working for the state, I know that was one of their first considerations for their own protection. What exactly happened, who witnessed the event, etc, etc. etc. In this case when you are talking about a work force that faces the possibility of severe injury on a daily basis, getting proper medical evaluation and treatment asap is a prominent consideration in everyone's mind. Will the be off work ? For how long does the dr. estimate it will take to recover ? Are other medical opinions needed ? Because as a police officer, they have to know asap will they be on duty tomorrow or not for four months. How long does their position have to be filled ??? I realize this is probably not an everyday happening checking dies but it is with law enforcement.

I do agree that the sooner the better, but there isn't any actual law requiring officers to immediately go to the hospital.

I think I've already answered this but I have trouble containing myself from pointing out again, these are the options resulting from the theft of $3 pack of smokes ???? Bizzare !!!

One of the two men Must Have overreacted. It just needs to be figured out who. Did Brown throw himself into the window, or did Wilson reach out with his left hand and strong arm Brown into the car?

It just seems unlikely, to me, that the 6 foot, 4 inch Brown, who weighed 290 pounds, could be easily grabbed and hauled into a window, left handed. Even though it appears Wilson is a tall and beefy guy.

He has arrived at last but he's not satisfied with just one commendation, he knows he can achieve more and from there he looks for the opportunity.

That certainly could be a possibility. But it is impossible to prove unless he confesses.

That, my dear, is exactly why you see no one standing beside him at the crime scene. It's why even the police union officer doesn't pause half a step to support him and why his head is hanging. Ferguson actually knows by then what he is and I will give it to them for wanting distance. I can't blame them at all

I can understand that thinking, but then why would the Chief not just offer him up? Why go to the length of lying to the press?

Edited November 19, 2014 by DieChecker

[aztek]

It might help you to understand how ludicrous you post was .

actually your post was as dumb as it gets, it makes 0 difference why he did not get clothes, the point is he DID NOT examine them, so no, he did not see ALL there is to see, so like i said he can go and suck it.

. They interpret and not every finding can be conclusive.

if it is not conclusive, it is worthless for the trial. and just as worthless as an evidence

Edited November 19, 2014 by aztek

[Regi]

The Ferguson Police were the ones who had taken full control of Michael's clothing. They were the ones who denied Dr. Baden access to whatever evidence might be on it in order to obstruct him from completing his investigation.

Indeed, he wasn't provided a lot valuable info, maybe most valuable as far as interpreting the wounds themselves, the x-rays. He stated that he agreed with much of what was written in the original autopsy report.

I think what's most indicative to me is that the last wounds inflicted were the one to the face and that to the top of the head, which correlates precisely with the circumstance described by eye-witnesses Crenshaw and Brady.

[aztek]

450 Responses to The Instigator – How One Saint Louis Man Originated The “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot” Mike Brown Controversy – And Created The “Eye Witness” Testimonials…

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/08/29/the-instigator-how-one-saint-louis-man-originated-the-hands-up-dont-shoot-mike-brown-controversy-and-created-the-eye-witness-testimonials/

[Vincennes]

It was also interesting how at least one witness, when on a TV show, was throwing punches when describing what Brown was doing in the fight in the car. With his arm going back and punching forward, not the flailing that would be expected of someone trying to escape, but the actions of someone who is attacking. He was doing it unconsciously of course, and tried to deny that he'd done it at all. But there it was recorded on TV.

How did you not hear when that man was directly asked if he was simulating "punches" when he tried to demonstrate what he had seen, he responded, "No," I'm just showing I saw arms moving back and forth."

Of course, that doesn't fit with what you seem to want him to say, so I guess you chose to just not hear what he said.

I'm going to wager you a $5 bet here if you will just try a little test for me. Picture yourself right now in front of a rolling news camera, bend your arms at the elbow and demonstrate "arms going back and forth." See if you do it with your hands flat out, palms up, palms down, or do you do it with your hands just dangling ?

You have to be honest here because I'm betting on the fact you will close your hands up just so they are not left dangling. Just as Mr. (I can't remember his name) did in his demonstration.

[Vincennes]

That case he got a commendation for was thrown out.

Yes, I did hear it reported that case was thrown out because top cop Wilson chose to remain in hiding. With all of the fervor demonstrated in his arrests and all of his achievement in "single handedly" taking down a criminal, it seems that carrying it through so that justice could be served some how lost a little bit of it's glitter and glory.

Actually I heard there was a total of 5 cases thrown out because Wilson failed to show up for the trials.

[Vincennes]

I would agree with you, that if we are going to judge what happened during the shooting based on what happened at the store, we should know that whole story. Johnson should be able to tell us.

I found this just now....

http://www.mediaite....ion-to-robbery/

I really am quite pleased that you agree. I can't understand why no reporter thought of that angle for a story. There are what about 5,000 stories containing that video clip and not one looking into it any father than running the clip. Yes, Johnson should have some details on what exactly went on.

Dorian Johnson himself confessed to his lawyer that he helped Mike Brown steal cigars. So he even admits it.

http://www.ksdk.com/...bbery/14118769/

Weird article in that link. It refers to an MSNBC interview with Johnson's lawyer so I think that's the interview that needs to be reviewed. Now maybe that's exactly what he said but for the life of me I can't understand why any lawyer would be the "source" for that type of information. It would involve Attorney / Client Privilege and I can't think of a reason why Johnson would want to confirm he was part of any theft. Makes no sense at all. I'm going to have to go back and find that entire interview.

I agree Wilson way overreacted. But it is clear that Brown and Johnson were in fact walking down the middle of the road.

Again, glad you can see the overreaction by Wilson but I want to say "So what" with regard to Brown and Johnson walking in the street. What would that amount to a $5.00 / $10.00 fine maybe ??? However, the word you used that I think is important is that they were both WALKING. I mentioned this just a minute back but, again, think about this for a minute and weigh it in with Wilson's subsequent actions .

http://www.cnn.com/i...brown-timeline/

I think this is a really good article. It holds so much information that seems to me to be what I remember regarding each of the interviews etc.

I do agree that the sooner the better, but there isn't any actual law requiring officers to immediately go to the hospital.

No, I wouldn't think there would need to be an legally specified time clock running. The immediacy is called for out of respect for the person who is claiming injury especially a law officer !

I'll mention something else here that we haven't discussed and that's the next part of the process. After an medical evaluation because of injury, if the doctor does find something serious enough that individual will not be able to return to work. That examining physician completes paperwork and "writes the individual off work" right there and then specifying why they should not work or what needs to be done next medically speaking; e.g., should not return to work until evaluated by a Neurologist. The injured party informs his supervisor of that result ASAP. Why does that happen ? Because in the government professions, that dr's evaluation is what enables the employer to pay the individual or to allow him to use the necessary amount of sick days to cover his absence.

So what I'm saying here is that police chief should have had a response from that physician by the next morning. This is where the chief's continuing response to Wilson's possible injuries of a "swollen face" are quite telling. A legitimate response to a diagnosed injury would have been something more like, "Officer Wilson has now been placed on Sick Leave in order to recover from his injuries." However, that's not what we heard. What we heard was more like "Officer Wilson is now on paid leave pending the outcome of this investigation." (Not a direct quote)

What does this all say ? It's another pretty definite that Wilson had no injuries what so ever.

One of the two men Must Have overreacted. It just needs to be figured out who. Did Brown throw himself into the window, or did Wilson reach out with his left hand and strong arm Brown into the car?

Well you know who I think it is that was squealing his tires around. I've never heard that after they were told to get out of the street Brown and Johnson turned and began to chase Wilson's car down the road or flung rocks at this car screaming obscenities at him. So, with that in mind, who is the initial aggressor ? I think there's a good chance both Brown and Johnson were at that point trying to figure out what was up with this guy.

It just seems unlikely, to me, that the 6 foot, 4 inch Brown, who weighed 290 pounds, could be easily grabbed and hauled into a window, left handed. Even though it appears Wilson is a tall and beefy guy.

You think at that point Brown decided to reach into this window, reach all the way across Wilson and down toward his hip and holster to go for the gun. Really ?

I can understand that thinking, but then why would the Chief not just offer him up? Why go to the length of lying to the press?

I'd love it if you could help me figure out that one !! The only thing that comes to me on that is that the chief at no time in all of this shows us anything other than he is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I think at that point he might have done things simply because THAT'S WHAT HE HAD ALWAYS DONE ! This is the kind of method he used and had ALWAYS GOTTEN AWAY WITH. "He grabbed for the gun" seems to be a common line used. I think the chief initially just didn't have a concept of where this whole thing might actually go and who big it would get.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Vincennes