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Was the Turin Shroud a medieval Easter prop?


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Posted (IP: Staff) ·

A British scholar and author has claimed that the controversial relic is not from the time of Jesus.

The famous shroud, which many believe to be the burial cloth of Jesus himself, has been the subject of debate for years.

Read More: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/274164/was-the-turin-shroud-a-medieval-easter-prop

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Religious organizations taking advantage of a lie to scare the god into people? Never!

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Might as well be the Shroud of Sasquatch at this point. Impossible to ever prove JC had this blanket covering him. And nobody knows what he looked like, just vague descriptions in the Bible. A few years ago the face of Jesus was revealed, and it looked like one of the nineteen hijackers...I hope not.

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Might as well be the Shroud of Sasquatch at this point. Impossible to ever prove JC had this blanket covering him. And nobody knows what he looked like, just vague descriptions in the Bible. A few years ago the face of Jesus was revealed, and it looked like one of the nineteen hijackers...I hope not.

Our expectation of what Jesus looked like is based on a painting. I can't remember who painted it. Almost all other representations of Jesus are based on that painting.
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Proof the Shroud of Turin is a Knights Templar idol. In 1357, the shroud was first publicly displayed by the widow of a nobleman known as Geoffrey of Charney, described by some sources as being a member of the family of the grandson of Geoffroi de Charney, who was burned at the stake with De Molay the head of the Templars. The shroud's origins are still a matter of controversy, but in 1988, a carbon dating analysis concluded that the shroud was made between 1260 and 1390, a span that includes the last half-century of the Templar’s' existence. It was used as a prop in an Astarte (Easter) re-enactment of Jesus crucifixion by the Templars in one of their rituals.

Although historically there is little if any record of exactly how de Molay was tortured, Lomas and Knight have no doubt. Very shortly after his arrest France's Grand Inquisitor Guillaume Imbert put him through a blow-by-blow re- enactment of Jesus’ crucifixion. First he was scourged. Then a crown of thorns was thrust on his head. Then nails were hammered into his wrists and feet, pinning him to 'a roughly assembled cross', on which he was hung in agony for several hours. Brought down alive, a knife was then thrust into his side 'not deep enough to cause life-threatening damage but sufficient to complete the deliberate re-enactment of the suffering of the 'son of God'.

Finally the Grand Inquisitor apparently thought of 'one more amusing twist' to this scenario. In Knight and Lomas's own words:

He [Guillaume Imbert] has de Molay placed on the very burial shroud that Molay used to mock the Messiah. As the torturers laid him face upwards on the cloth and the excess section is lifted over his head to cover the front of his body, Imbert cannot resist a final quotation from the story of the Passion: 'And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth.' Patting the shroud around the desperately damaged body, Imbert suggests that the barely conscious man might care to raise himself, if he feels as important as the true Christ.

As Knight and Lomas go on:

The features of de Molay's body were [then] etched onto the cloth by the lactic acid from the free-flowing blood, reacting with the frankincense used as a whitening agent, which was rich in calcium carbonate.

Medieval knights hid and secretly venerated The Holy Shroud of Turin for more than 100 years after the Crusades, the Vatican said Sunday in an announcement that appeared to solve the mystery of the relic’s missing years.

The Knights Templar, an order which was suppressed and disbanded for alleged heresy, took care of the linen cloth, which bears the image of a man with a beard, long hair and the wounds of crucifixion, according to Vatican researchers.

The Shroud, which is kept in the royal chapel of Turin Cathedral, has long been revered as the shroud in which Jesus was buried, although the image only appeared clearly in 1898 when a photographer developed a negative.

Barbara Frale, a researcher in the Vatican Secret Archives, said the Shroud had disappeared in the sack of Constantinople in 1204 during the Fourth Crusade, and did not surface again until the middle of the fourteenth century.

Writing in L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, Frale said its fate in those years had always puzzled historians.

However her study of the trial of the Knights Templar had brought to light a document in which Arnaut Sabbatier, a young Frenchman who entered the order in 1287, testified that as part of his initiation he was taken to “a secret place to which only the brothers of the Temple had access."

There he was shown “a long linen cloth on which was impressed the figure of a man” and instructed to venerate the image by kissing its feet three times.

The Knight’s Templars came together again in 1776 as the Illuminati who orchestrate the New World Order and New Age Religion in preparation to bring in the Antichrist. The description of how the cloth was laid under the body and then folded over it is exactly how the image appears front and back. The Shroud also only shows a on dimensional image of front and back of a naked man with one hand covering his genitals, which is not possible if he was lying flat. Also, this is where we get the images of what Jesus looked like long hair and all. Images were forbidden in the Bible. It is also where we get the idea the nails were in the wrist instead of the hand. This does not match how Jesus was crucified or how he was wrapped like a mummy which mystified the disciples when they found the empty linen cocoon with the face cloth folded beside it. Also the blood found was AB RH Negative which is the rarest blood type of those in the lineage of the descendants of the Nephilim who became the Merovingian royal lineage of France later to become the Scottish Rite of freemasonry.

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If you took a sculpted bust of a human head, coated it with paint and draped it completely with a cloth, when you laid the cloth flat you would get a very wide and distorted image.

Nothing at all like what we see on the shroud.

This fact has never been explained away by the believers.

If you have to resort to some supernatural explanation that flies in the face of physics, then you've already lost the argument.

Let's lay this shroud mythology to rest, shall we?

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My pet theory is that this shroud is not the original shroud but was what the original one was kept wrapped in for so many years. The radiation that made the imprint thus imprinted itself on the wrapping (which was from the middle ages) thus throwing everyone off time-wise. Yep...makes sense to me!

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I see no reason to disbelieve the carbon dating indicating it is medieval.

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Our expectation of what Jesus looked like is based on a painting. I can't remember who painted it. Almost all other representations of Jesus are based on that painting.

the first icons of Christ and Mary where done by the apostle Luke

The All-Merciful Kykko Icon of the Mother of God: This icon was painted, according to Tradition, by the holy Evangelist Luke. http://www.mariancalendar.org/all-merciful-kykko-icon-of-the-mother-of-god/

one of the earliest depictions of Christ is

The iconic image of Christ Pantocrator was one of the first images of Christ developed in the Early Christian Church and remains a central icon of the Eastern Orthodox Church. In the half-length image, Christ holds the New Testament in his left hand and makes the gesture of teaching or of blessing with his right.

The oldest known surviving example of the icon of Christ Pantocrator was painted in encaustic on panel in the sixth or seventh century, and survived the period of destruction of images during the Iconoclastic disputes that twice racked the Eastern church, 726 to 787 and 814 to 842, by being preserved in the remote desert of the Sinai, in Saint Catherine's Monastery.[9] The gessoed panel, finely painted using a wax medium on a wooden panel, had been coarsely overpainted around the face and hands at some time around the thirteenth century. It was only when the overpainting was cleaned in 1962 that the ancient image was revealed to be a very high quality icon, probably produced in Constantinople

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_Pantocrator

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His pictures were based on pictures of a Greek deity called Serapis.

serapis7.jpg

r975057_10612039.jpg

See the similarities.

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I saw a doco on how easy it would have been to make one, so I like the prop idea. It makes a lot of sense.

Not many people know this, but back then (at the dating period) church could be fun! Often they had passion plays (I have a book on it, fascinating) ... church was entertaining (no TV radio or internet ;) ) and plays and dramas were enacted for entertainment and instruction. Guilds were responsible for their own plays ( eg. the shipwrights did the story of Noah'a Ark ... in one popular version enacted, somehow Noah has become overly fond of drink and his wife is a nag who berates him ... quiet 'topical' I suppose ) .

At Easter time, the enactments would have been very focused ... and still are today.

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When carbon dating was first invented and calibrated, what was used as a control to prove its accuracy? What could they say is a million years old and yes there are the results..... Exactly a million! Even if decay is a mathematical probability, who's to say the equation is accurate 10000 plus years out without a control? You would have to have something that is 10K with 100% certainty to use and that does not exist. I am no expert but I do wonder how? Someone is going to show me how the decay is a mathematical certainty and I would ask how, Faith? prove it!

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Just another religious relic of dubious origins. Such things have been manufactured and palmed off to tourists for two thousand years in the Holy Land.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Put Lemon juice on your Face.Gently lay a white cloth on your Face.Put the cloth in the Oven at 200*F for 20 minutes.Then see what you get.

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I see no reason to disbelieve the carbon dating indicating it is medieval.

You are right. What he tested did come from medieval times. However, the shroud has been repaired many times with new cloth to preserve it. They dated the wrong part, one which WAs added in that period. And the thought is that the impression was left during resurrection, thus leaving a one d image from the radiation, which makes sense.

I didn't know the nefelim bloodline was traced to the Scottish rite. Very interesting, thank you for that. It makes a lot of sense. I'll have to do some research

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I have no reason to doubt the 1988 carbon dating. A number of dubious claims have been made about this, the main one is that the shroud was repaired twice that we know of and it has been said that modern thread contaminated the old cloth giving an average result in the medieval period. This is improbable for a number of reasons.

A sample of about 30 by 70 mm (say 1 1/4 by 2 3/4 inch) was taken from the bottom left. It is unlikely that there would have been extensive repairs there or to the whole of the sample.

Second, claims that the repairs were "invisible" seem to me to be desperate.

Third, claims that the area was deliberately sampled to include modern thread are defamatory and those who make such claims are fortunate that the scientists involved probably cannot afford to sue in courts.

Fourth, claims that the samples were taken in secret are false, the procedure was photographed and videotaped in the presence of clergy.

Fifth, the sample strip was cut into three and sent to laboratories in Arizona, Oxford and Zurich. Arizona did four tests, Oxford did three and Zurich did five. All of the samples gave results varying from 591 +/-30 years before present to 795 +/- 65 years before present. So did all twelve of these samples contain virtually identical proportions of modern thread?

Does it sound likely to you?

A second objection is that the sample was contaminated by gum arabic. Again, each of the 12 samples would have had to have had a virtually identical proportion of gum arabic. But before testing, the samples were cleaned in each lab using different techniques, but each method involved dilute hydrochloric acid and dilute sodium hydroxide. Gum arabic is soluble in these solutions. So either the cleaning processes removed all the gum arabic or they left virtually identical and rather substantial traces despite different methods being used.

Does this sound likely to you?

A final note on the carbon dating. Three controls were used. One was part of the mummy wrappings of Cleopatra who died 30 BCE and another was from the cope of St Louis, King of France, who died 1270 CE. A third was from a tomb dated 11 to 12 century CE. The mummy wrapping gave dates of 1954 years before present to 2137 years before present, while the cope sample gave between 602 and 785 years before present and the tomb sample gave between 829 and 1036 before present.

Since the tomb sample, the Cleopatra sample and the Saint Louis sample gave results consistent with their known ages there is no reason to think there were massive errors in the testing of the shroud.

One chemist (Rogers) tested shroud samples for vanillin, which is naturally present in linen and found very low levels consistent with an age of well over a 1500 years. This is superficially a serious objection, but vanillin is about 10% soluble in water. There was no consideration in the test of whether the shroud had been washed, how it might have been washed, how many times, the temperature of the water etc before the image went on to it (or even afterwards). I regard this as dubious.

Other claims say that the image on the shroud is identical to various icons dating back to the 400s or even earlier. Well I have seen some of these images claimed and there is no resemblance except for representing a bearded man.

https://www.shroud.com/nature.htm

http://www.shroud.it/ROGERS-3.PDF

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When carbon dating was first invented and calibrated, what was used as a control to prove its accuracy? What could they say is a million years old and yes there are the results..... Exactly a million! Even if decay is a mathematical probability, who's to say the equation is accurate 10000 plus years out without a control? You would have to have something that is 10K with 100% certainty to use and that does not exist. I am no expert but I do wonder how? Someone is going to show me how the decay is a mathematical certainty and I would ask how, Faith? prove it!

\

Carbon 14 dating is no good for marine animals, the reason why has been known for fifty years and it's maximum range is about 50,000 years before present, not millions of years. It is not used on rocks or petrified fossils, it is only used on wood, leather, fabrics, bone, antler and such like.

After the best part of 42 years I have forgotten the mathematics that demonstrate that decay rates of radioactive isotopes are exponential, but I will say this, if these calculations were wrong, then nuclear power stations and weapons would not work. While it is true that a few radioisotopes are very slightly affected by external conditions, these do not occur in the decay chains of either isotope of uranium to lead, thorium to lead, potassium to argon or carbon 14 to nitrogen.

If desired, the decay of a known mass of carbon 14 can be measured over days, weeks, months or years to demonstrate that these decay rates are real.

The initial checks in 1949 were against wood from the tombs of Zoser and Sneferu which had been dated to within about 80 years from ancient Egyptian chronicles. The radiocarbon dates agreed with the chronicle dates.

Calibration is done with old objects of known age. In the case of the Turin shroud, the tests were compared with a sample of another shroud known to be 11th or 12th century, the cope of King Louis of France who died in 1270 and a piece of the mummy wrapping of Queen Cleopatra of Egypt, (yes the one with Caesar and Mark Antony) who died 30 BC. The results obtained were consistent with those ages.

https://www.shroud.com/nature.htm

If you want something older, there are the tomb goods of Tutankhamun, mummy wrappings, furniture etc. who died 1323 or 1324 BC or for even older checks there is tree ring dating which goes back to 11,000 years before present.

Edited by Codenwarra
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The Knight’s Templars came together again in 1776 as the Illuminati who orchestrate the New World Order and New Age Religion in preparation to bring in the Antichrist.

...

Also the blood found was AB RH Negative which is the rarest blood type of those in the lineage of the descendants of the Nephilim who became the Merovingian royal lineage of France later to become the Scottish Rite of freemasonry.

Typically there is no evidence to support the babble presented. Edited by Rlyeh
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Colin Wilson wrote about about th eshroud that is rahter interesting. I myself think it's not a medieval forgery,but that's me. Wilson has in his book several examples of paintings made to represent the shroud we know today. These paintings don't have many of the qualities of the shroud. Also,the shroud has been repaired at various times.I understand there are some small burn holes in it.He has an illustration from a medieval hungarian book,,forgot what century,that shows the shroud and has the same marks as on the shroud itsself. The problem is no one wants to desytroy the image on it.It would be wonderful if we could extract dna from it and also carbon date the image itself, but then it would get ruined.

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Put Lemon juice on your Face.Gently lay a white cloth on your Face.Put the cloth in the Oven at 200*F for 20 minutes.Then see what you get.

A rash on your face and a smelly kitchen.

:)

Nibs

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Put Lemon juice on your Face.Gently lay a white cloth on your Face.Put the cloth in the Oven at 200*F for 20 minutes.Then see what you get.

minus you head I presume

fullywired :w00t:

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Proof the Shroud of Turin is a Knights Templar idol. In 1357, the shroud was first publicly displayed by the widow of a nobleman known as Geoffrey of Charney, described by some sources as being a member of the family of the grandson of Geoffroi de Charney, who was burned at the stake with De Molay the head of the Templars. The shroud's origins are still a matter of controversy, but in 1988, a carbon dating analysis concluded that the shroud was made between 1260 and 1390, a span that includes the last half-century of the Templar’s' existence. It was used as a prop in an Astarte (Easter) re-enactment of Jesus crucifixion by the Templars in one of their rituals.

Although historically there is little if any record of exactly how de Molay was tortured, Lomas and Knight have no doubt. Very shortly after his arrest France's Grand Inquisitor Guillaume Imbert put him through a blow-by-blow re- enactment of Jesus’ crucifixion. First he was scourged. Then a crown of thorns was thrust on his head. Then nails were hammered into his wrists and feet, pinning him to 'a roughly assembled cross', on which he was hung in agony for several hours. Brought down alive, a knife was then thrust into his side 'not deep enough to cause life-threatening damage but sufficient to complete the deliberate re-enactment of the suffering of the 'son of God'.

Finally the Grand Inquisitor apparently thought of 'one more amusing twist' to this scenario. In Knight and Lomas's own words:

He [Guillaume Imbert] has de Molay placed on the very burial shroud that Molay used to mock the Messiah. As the torturers laid him face upwards on the cloth and the excess section is lifted over his head to cover the front of his body, Imbert cannot resist a final quotation from the story of the Passion: 'And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth.' Patting the shroud around the desperately damaged body, Imbert suggests that the barely conscious man might care to raise himself, if he feels as important as the true Christ.

As Knight and Lomas go on:

The features of de Molay's body were [then] etched onto the cloth by the lactic acid from the free-flowing blood, reacting with the frankincense used as a whitening agent, which was rich in calcium carbonate.

Medieval knights hid and secretly venerated The Holy Shroud of Turin for more than 100 years after the Crusades, the Vatican said Sunday in an announcement that appeared to solve the mystery of the relic’s missing years.

The Knights Templar, an order which was suppressed and disbanded for alleged heresy, took care of the linen cloth, which bears the image of a man with a beard, long hair and the wounds of crucifixion, according to Vatican researchers.

The Shroud, which is kept in the royal chapel of Turin Cathedral, has long been revered as the shroud in which Jesus was buried, although the image only appeared clearly in 1898 when a photographer developed a negative.

Barbara Frale, a researcher in the Vatican Secret Archives, said the Shroud had disappeared in the sack of Constantinople in 1204 during the Fourth Crusade, and did not surface again until the middle of the fourteenth century.

Writing in L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, Frale said its fate in those years had always puzzled historians.

However her study of the trial of the Knights Templar had brought to light a document in which Arnaut Sabbatier, a young Frenchman who entered the order in 1287, testified that as part of his initiation he was taken to “a secret place to which only the brothers of the Temple had access."

There he was shown “a long linen cloth on which was impressed the figure of a man” and instructed to venerate the image by kissing its feet three times.

The Knight’s Templars came together again in 1776 as the Illuminati who orchestrate the New World Order and New Age Religion in preparation to bring in the Antichrist. The description of how the cloth was laid under the body and then folded over it is exactly how the image appears front and back. The Shroud also only shows a on dimensional image of front and back of a naked man with one hand covering his genitals, which is not possible if he was lying flat. Also, this is where we get the images of what Jesus looked like long hair and all. Images were forbidden in the Bible. It is also where we get the idea the nails were in the wrist instead of the hand. This does not match how Jesus was crucified or how he was wrapped like a mummy which mystified the disciples when they found the empty linen cocoon with the face cloth folded beside it. Also the blood found was AB RH Negative which is the rarest blood type of those in the lineage of the descendants of the Nephilim who became the Merovingian royal lineage of France later to become the Scottish Rite of freemasonry.

I have seldom read such an uninformed post relating to the Knights Templar as this that you have forwarded.

Jacque de Molay was imprisoned for 7 years before being burned at the stake. There are NO verifiable records of any torture being applied, there were no Nails in the wrist - nothing.

Also know this, Freemasonry has no link with the Knights Templar (yes I am very well versed in the Scottish Rite) - it is just another device used by Freemasons to add creedance to their lore, nothing greater than that.

The Knights Templar are NOT vehicles for bringing the Anti-Christ into the world... you really have no idea about that of which you are talking.

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When carbon dating was first invented and calibrated, what was used as a control to prove its accuracy? What could they say is a million years old and yes there are the results..... Exactly a million! Even if decay is a mathematical probability, who's to say the equation is accurate 10000 plus years out without a control? You would have to have something that is 10K with 100% certainty to use and that does not exist. I am no expert but I do wonder how? Someone is going to show me how the decay is a mathematical certainty and I would ask how, Faith? prove it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating

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The Shroud if real may have been taken by th eTemplars during the sack of Constantinople ages ago and held by the Templars. Somehow it got into the hands of the Charney family. There is another somewhat similar story to another object associated with Christ. In Rome in one of the churches was said to be the Holy Veil of St.Veronica with Jesus's face on it. At some point in timeprobably during the sack of Rome during the 16th century it disappeared. Something similar turned up in the town of Manapello.There is a website that shows this image of Christ's face and has a history of it.The image is on a very fine sheer silk. for protection it is kept in a glass frame.

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