Israel attacks American assets: the proof

[Guest Br Cornelius]

You see thats exactly where the conspiratorial mindset gets you. Don't forget to check behind the curtains before you go to bed

Br Cornelius

[stevewinn]

Don't attempt to label this as a simple conspiracy. The Israelis deliberately targeted an American listening ship with the intent of sinking and killing all on board. That is an act of war and if they did it to a British asset you would be apoplectic. The fact that they paid compensation means **** to the original intention.

They did it with clear intent and with a strategic objective, they calculated that they could do the deed and no one would find out who did it because the boat would be at the bottom of the Med.

The followed up the initial airstrikes with torpedo ships god damn it !!!!

Grow up Steve and stop trying to call this a conspiracy.

Br Cornelius

It is a conspiracy, only you think its not because you don't want it to be, your anti American and anti Israel stance is well known on the forum. this piece just happens to contain the two, so ideal, something you can get your teeth into. - I like a good conspiracy myself, so to see if there is anything to it I've just spent time reading the official report into the incident by the US Government. all 726 pages. The question is have you? - or are you as i suspect relying on a Author whose penning a book, plus as made a Documentary for that well known friend of Israel and the west Al Jazeera. Lets not pretend here British filmmaker Richard Belfield is a top notch investigator or credible source. look at his work. he loves a good conspiracy. only he can decipher it all, but you can to if you buy his books.

So lets see, The incident happens in 1967. the US government holds four inquires into the event they have open access to all involved, Captain and crew of the ship plus Israel and all the facts. they release their findings. But here we are 47 years after the event, and you want us to believe an Al Jazeera investigation which in their words "uncover the shocking truth" The truth is Israel attacked the USS Liberty by mistake, firstly by misidentifying the ship, followed by failings in the chain of command. but don't let such things as facts and official reports get in the way of a good conspiracy.

Okay, its clear your mind is made up, and it will make a good conversation at your next dinner party when you start dispensing the after eight chocolates, So lets agree it was a deliberate attack by Israel. in your own words, emphasised by the bold text "thats an act of war" Okay its an act of war, but America didn't see it as such and didn't go to war against Israel. so what's your point? you seem outraged they never went to war. Why? What do you now want to see happen in the face of this fresh conspiracy evidence? retrospective action by the US. Get a grip.

Edited November 15, 2014 by stevewinn

[bee]

You see thats exactly where the conspiratorial mindset gets you. Don't forget to check behind the curtains before you go to bed

Br Cornelius

haha....you'd better pray (5 times a day..?) nothing happens to me suspicious or otherwise any time soon...

because you will be in the frame...

LOL.....

.

[TSS]

Let me make this clear, when I accused AND THEN of been treasonous it is based on the definite fact that he has offered support to body which has committed deadly crimes against his own nation and refused to condemn those acts of war against his nation, which by its very definition is Treason. He has sided with his enemy. Thats an actual statement of fact.

Well that's all legally incorrect for a start. Offering support by way of words on a forum is little more then disloyalty*, and disloyalty is not an act of Treason (in any legal sense).

*even the disloyalty card can't be played, since an enemy state is only defined as such by the nation in question - not by a third party sitting in a third country.

[bee]

.

Hoorah.....

'and then' has NOT committed treason...........

it was all a fiendish conspiracy to discredit him......

.

[Leonardo]

I might have some insight into this situation. I'm a real Zionist, and some of us are hesitant to criticize specific Israeli acts and individuals since it tends to be misinterpreted due to past examples of bigotry, real or imagined.

So, you are saying the pro-Israel apologists (not you, necessarily - I appreciate you made clear your position) can argue that it's okay to sweep the Liberty incident aside because it happened a few decades ago, but we must still be cautious of anti-semitic bigotry that happened even longer ago?

A reasonable person who was to dismiss events that happened 40 or so years ago in order to not criticise Israel "unreasonably", should also dismiss events that happened 60+ years ago ( and even those which are alleged to have occurred 2000+ years ago) in order to not support Israel "unreasonably".

[Guest Br Cornelius]

So Steve can you clarify for us why the Israelis carried on bombing and strafing the Liberty once it was established as an American ship, or do you deny that the transcript of the communication between the pilots and their base ?

I await with bated breath.

Br Cornelius

Edited November 15, 2014 by Br Cornelius

[Phaeton80]

Some intresting information concerning the level of Israeli control over US internal politics and foreign policy.

[media=]

[/media] Edited November 15, 2014 by Phaeton80

[Guest Br Cornelius]

Some intresting information concerning the level of Israeli control over US internal politics and foreign policy.

[media=]

[/media]

Thanks for that, very good analysis of the fundamental issues from people who have been on the inside.

Br Cornelius

[Phaeton80]

It will be swept aside by the usual suspects, regardless. As stated in the posted content; 'Israel can do no wrong'. 'Israel needs our unconditional support'. While obviously; nothing deserves unconditional support in any given political arena. This is a trait of fanaticism, idolisation.

It is comparable to the behaviour of popstar fans, like those who fanatically support Lady Gaga. She can do no wrong in these people's eyes, they would defend her no matter what she promotes or how she acts.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Phaeton80

[stevewinn]

So Steve can you clarify for us why the Israelis carried on bombing and strafing the Liberty once it was established as an American ship, or do you deny that the transcript of the communication between the pilots and their base ?

I await with bated breath.

Br Cornelius

Im not denying anything, it's rubber stamped case closed. - this thread is without doubt a conspiracy. borne of a conspiracy, I don't know what you expect to achieve here, except peddling misinformation and so keeping the conspiracy alive, or maybe your looking for verification by like minded people who love a good conspiracy, Its clear you've taken umbrage with me for calling it a conspiracy. - like i should just accept without question your Al Jazeera documentary and youtube videos as proof.

I've already said, lets agree to disagree. lets say Israel attacked the USS Liberty in full knowledge it was US ship. What's your point? are you highlighting it for the masses to get outraged at Israel and so stop supporting them, something you'd love as a long term despiser of the state of Israel.

I have to say, not one person believing in the conspiracy has read the official US Government reports, and how do i know this, because if they had they'd be in no doubt the attack was a mistake. But no-one likes to take the time to find out, not when hocus-pocus exist on the subject.

You already know the whole thing was dubious from the start. in your very first post you purposely omitted the words from the quoted text "can we say it was 9/11" and the line which states it's "a conspiracy and tinfoil hats can be put away" So by your choosing not to include this showed you didn't want it categorised as a conspiracy or 9/11 conspiracy from the outset because it would do your argument no good, questioning creditability or foundation. why did you decided not include them lines?

[Guest Br Cornelius]

So the transcript of the communications is a fabrication, and that is your position ?

Let it be said that the eye witness on the USS Liberty have consistently called the investigation a "coverup" since it is built on the lie that the ship was flying no USA flag and so was not identifiable as American. The crew of the Liberty have declared this a bare faced lie. I happen to think they have little reason to make that statement if it isn't true.

Br Cornelius

Edited November 15, 2014 by Br Cornelius

[stevewinn]

So the transcript of the communications is a fabrication, and that is your position ?

Let it be said that the eye witness on the USS Liberty have consistently called the investigation a "coverup" since it is built on the lie that the ship was flying no USA flag and so was not identifiable as American. The crew of the Liberty have declared this a bare faced lie. I happen to think they have little reason to make that statement if it isn't true.

Br Cornelius

My position is, Its clear you are unable or unwilling to answer a question, and on the conspiracy i have no reason to question the official findings. After six pages im still wondering what your motive is? what out come are you looking for?

Edited November 15, 2014 by stevewinn

[Guest Br Cornelius]

My position is, Its clear you are unable or unwilling to answer a question, and on the conspiracy i have no reason to question the official findings. After six pages im still wondering what your motive is? what out come are you looking for?

Steve I ask a simple question, this story pivots on the transcript. Your position is only tenable if it is a fabrication. So I ask again, do you believe the transcript is a fabrication ??

Br Cornelius

[stevewinn]

Steve I ask a simple question, this story pivots on the transcript. Your position is only tenable if it is a fabrication. So I ask again, do you believe the transcript is a fabrication ??

Br Cornelius

Lets see the evidence of the transcript and i'll get back to you.

[Guest Br Cornelius]

Lets see the evidence of the transcript and i'll get back to you.

Follow the link to Al-Jazeer and do your investigation.

Br Cornelius

[stevewinn]

Follow the link to Al-Jazeer and do your investigation.

Br Cornelius

Having read the original report yesterday and read fully the Al Jazeera investigation including watching the documentary and comparing the information. The US government report tells us, the USS Liberty was tasked to sail to within 100nm South-East of the Sinai peninsular in international waters. off the Egyptian coast. - Israeli Surveillance aircraft conducted 9 sorties of the USS Liberty, identifying and confirming both the ships location and identity. and the information is added to the battle map at Israel's HQ.

When Israeli soldiers fighting on the Sinai peninsular are bombarded from the sea (wrongly presumed) Torpedo boats are sent out to the area to investigate and confront any ship. The Torpedo boats make radar contact and the ship is estimated to be sailing at 28knots. The ship is identified by silhouette as the Egyptian vessel El Quseir. Its at this point fighter jets are dispatched to attack the ship to disable it or sink it.

The fighter jets arrive the lead pilot, confirms his orders for attack. the first attack goes in. on doing so and passing the ship he's asked to identify the ship. Its at this point he identifies the ship as possibly American. The controller then looks at the battle map to see if any US vessels are in that area. unfortunately the USS liberty's position as been removed from map. confirming no US ships are in the area the go ahead for the second wave is given. eventually the torpedo boats catch up and start their attack as the patrol boats move in, the ship is identified as Russian, before being re-identified as American.

Its clear a catalogue of human errors and inexperience are the cause, and errors are going to be made when fighting a fast war within six days, combined this with a large number of conscripted personnel. and all the official reports come to the same conclusion 'accidental' I can however seen how conspiracies have came about, there are grey areas, and these areas lead you to feel there was a cover up of some sort going on, but in absence of evidence we cannot say. If there was a cover up, it was probably more diplomatic relationship orientated.

but that leads to the question of the conspiracy theorists. what is the conspiracy exactly? If Israel attacked the USS Liberty deliberately why, for what gain? and having attack the USS liberty did they achieve their gain.

Its not like we have to speculate, declassified material is available on the internet. I offer US government declassified documents the conspiracy theorists provide Al Jazeera, and youtube.

https://www.nsa.gov/...ss/uss_liberty/

Edited November 15, 2014 by stevewinn

[Guest Br Cornelius]

Not really conforming with the fact that the ship was flying the American flag and the pilot actually asking whether he was to attack the american ship.

If you take the official report as gospel over the testimony of the serving officers on board then we really have little further to discuss here.

Br Cornelius

[Space Commander Travis]

so true...

For my part....I support Israel and I always feel there is an unspoken agenda behind threads like this...

That is...to try to (assist with) driving a wedge between Israel and America, to isolate Israel...

which would benefit the Islamic countries in the Middle East...

That's why there was a propaganda campaign to try and blame Israel for 9/11... ...IMO

.

So Israel should not have to abide by the same rules as every other country, then. It should be able to get away with anything at all, because They want to destroy Israel.

Even the Americans, it seems.

Or did the Americans deserve it in this case for not supporting Israel enough?

Edited November 15, 2014 by Valdemar the Great

[Space Commander Travis]

Having read the original report yesterday and read fully the Al Jazeera investigation including watching the documentary and comparing the information. The US government report tells us, the USS Liberty was tasked to sail to within 100nm South-East of the Sinai peninsular in international waters. off the Egyptian coast. - Israeli Surveillance aircraft conducted 9 sorties of the USS Liberty, identifying and confirming both the ships location and identity. and the information is added to the battle map at Israel's HQ.

When Israeli soldiers fighting on the Sinai peninsular are bombarded from the sea (wrongly presumed) Torpedo boats are sent out to the area to investigate and confront any ship. The Torpedo boats make radar contact and the ship is estimated to be sailing at 28knots. The ship is identified by silhouette as the Egyptian vessel El Quseir. Its at this point fighter jets are dispatched to attack the ship to disable it or sink it.

The fighter jets arrive the lead pilot, confirms his orders for attack. the first attack goes in. on doing so and passing the ship he's asked to identify the ship. Its at this point he identifies the ship as possibly American. The controller then looks at the battle map to see if any US vessels are in that area. unfortunately the USS liberty's position as been removed from map. confirming no US ships are in the area the go ahead for the second wave is given. eventually the torpedo boats catch up and start their attack as the patrol boats move in, the ship is identified as Russian, before being re-identified as American.

Its clear a catalogue of human errors and inexperience are the cause, and errors are going to be made when fighting a fast war within six days, combined this with a large number of conscripted personnel. and all the official reports come to the same conclusion 'accidental' I can however seen how conspiracies have came about, there are grey areas, and these areas lead you to feel there was a cover up of some sort going on, but in absence of evidence we cannot say. If there was a cover up, it was probably more diplomatic relationship orientated.

but that leads to the question of the conspiracy theorists. what is the conspiracy exactly? If Israel attacked the USS Liberty deliberately why, for what gain? and having attack the USS liberty did they achieve their gain.

Its not like we have to speculate, declassified material is available on the internet. I offer US government declassified documents the conspiracy theorists provide Al Jazeera, and youtube.

https://www.nsa.gov/...ss/uss_liberty/

You really believe that catalogue of nonsense? You really believe the Israeli armed forces would have been that incompetent? Are you as desperate and Bee and And Then to excuse them of absolutely everything?

[Space Commander Travis]

You are the one starting threads like this.....my 'bias' is because I'm not a muslim and I don't want the influence

of Islam to spread more than is healthy for non-Islamic people and nations...

Global Jihad and all that....

Which doesn't seem to bother you in the slightest...and it appears you would like to see Israel

'removed from the map' whether this assists the Global Islamic Jihad or not...

(or maybe you support the Global Islamic Jihad...?)

I know what side my bread is buttered...and that isn't assisting the spread of Islamic Fundamentalism ....

.

And what has any of that passionate outburst got to do with this particular affair, which is about Israel attacking an American ship? Or do you just have to repeat your mantra about the Global Menace from Islam every so often to strengthen your support for Israel?

[Space Commander Travis]

It is a conspiracy, only you think its not because you don't want it to be, your anti American and anti Israel stance is well known on the forum. this piece just happens to contain the two, so ideal, something you can get your teeth into. - I like a good conspiracy myself, so to see if there is anything to it I've just spent time reading the official report into the incident by the US Government. all 726 pages. The question is have you? - or are you as i suspect relying on a Author whose penning a book, plus as made a Documentary for that well known friend of Israel and the west Al Jazeera. Lets not pretend here British filmmaker Richard Belfield is a top notch investigator or credible source. look at his work. he loves a good conspiracy. only he can decipher it all, but you can to if you buy his books.

So lets see, The incident happens in 1967. the US government holds four inquires into the event they have open access to all involved, Captain and crew of the ship plus Israel and all the facts. they release their findings. But here we are 47 years after the event, and you want us to believe an Al Jazeera investigation which in their words "uncover the shocking truth" The truth is Israel attacked the USS Liberty by mistake, firstly by misidentifying the ship, followed by failings in the chain of command. but don't let such things as facts and official reports get in the way of a good conspiracy.

Okay, its clear your mind is made up, and it will make a good conversation at your next dinner party when you start dispensing the after eight chocolates, So lets agree it was a deliberate attack by Israel. in your own words, emphasised by the bold text "thats an act of war" Okay its an act of war, but America didn't see it as such and didn't go to war against Israel. so what's your point? you seem outraged they never went to war. Why? What do you now want to see happen in the face of this fresh conspiracy evidence? retrospective action by the US. Get a grip.

Where's the jaw dropping smilie when you need one? You think America would seriously have gone to war with Israel?! That's exactly why the Israeli govt. has been able to get away with so much that any other country (such as, for example, one whose capital is Moscow) would never possibly be able to; because they have America right over a barrel, and no one in the world of American politics would ever dare voice any serious protest, let alone take any kind of action.

[Mr.United_Nations]

The even stranger fact that one of the aircraft made a low pass and the American seamen waved at him, before the attack. Alot of the seamen did believe that Israel deliberate attacked the ship.

There are alot of classified files still being investigated as far as i know. The US was neutral at this point because fears of Russia might do

[Space Commander Travis]

Well that's all legally incorrect for a start. Offering support by way of words on a forum is little more then disloyalty*, and disloyalty is not an act of Treason (in any legal sense).

*even the disloyalty card can't be played, since an enemy state is only defined as such by the nation in question - not by a third party sitting in a third country.

is a disloyalty card like a loyalty card in reverse? You get points deducted if you use it at the same place more than once?

[Guest Br Cornelius]

although you claim to have some sort of moral reason for selecting Israel for your never ending criticism..

you may have a political agenda that is not,... shall we say....'helpful' to the secular West...

I'm not directly accusing you...because how could I know for sure...that's why I said possibly treasonous...

edit to say....I knew that would get you going as 'treason' seems to be your buzz word for this thread...LOL...

.

Its very funny that you would accuse me of been a secret Jihaddist, when the worst kept secret on these boards is that I am a rabid atheist

I suppose thats where a paranoid mind will take you though

Br Cornelius